Hi today I have been trying to work out just what makes an American scotch different from a toast ?? I’m baffled ? As they seem the same but are they ??? Also I take it scotches have more nicotine Due to being finer do you actually take more of the product.?
it’s just an American name for Irish dry high toast
Ah ok I see thank you. ! Man that’s stuffs hard to take !
to quote ermtony’s website: Scotch is an American style of snuff, originally derived from the Irish and Scottish toasted snuffs but having a distinctive character of its own. Scotches are always very finely ground, and can be plain, strong or sweet. The strong scotches are the ones with the smoky flavouring. Sweet scotches often have fruit flavouring. Also a good read is: http://www.snuffbox.org.uk/abr.htm#us But no, a scotch is not simply a toast. In many ways they are less complex and always finer and dryer. They are cousins, but not identical. I’ve tried every currently available scotch and then some. I’ve tried every currently available toast. In a sense you could line them all up on a spectrum, with Starr Scotch being on the low end (most toast like) of the scoctches, and Gawith Hoggarth Irish D being on the high end (most scotch like) of the toasts. @Vathek: generally speaking scotches are less flavored than toasts. A plain scotch is often quite bland compared to a plain toast. Both can have a smokey nature, but the toast is usually more full in overall flavor. Also a misconception is that the scotches are designed for oral use. They are designed for nasal use, as oral use was not common in the USA until the mid 1800s. Without going into long details, the users have taken it upon themselves to use them orally. Snuffing of these by tradition has never died out entirely though. However, sometimes markets follow use and the flavored or sweetened scotches came along later in order to make oral use more palatable.
Dam @xander !! I’m impressed you know all their is to know about snuff !! Thanks for clearing it up for me I never knew their was such light differences between the making of snuffs that makes a massive difference in flavour … It’s very complex isn’t it ! It just seemed that an American scotch was just like a toast but as you say it’s not for many reasons , god I love this hobby
Good post Xander. Might want to flag that for your FAQ data base.
Here in Missouri USA we have only a few of the w.E. GARRETT snuffs. I would have thought that being this close to the south that more would be available. I prefer the sweet myself and do place some lemon zest into the can to moisten it and give it that citrus scent. too much can overdue it easily. I havent had toast for quite some time, but the scotches have that big OOOOOMMMMPH of nicotine for this nicotine junkie that i crave.
@Vathek Indeed other grinds have existed and do exist in the US. At one time there were many varieties including rappees and toasts. All that remains of these is Railroad Mills Maccoboy, (Maccoboy is a corruption of the word Macouba). At one time there were many Maccoboys here. Railroad Mills Checkerberry is also something semi moist, but I’m skeptical as if nasal use was in mind when that was brought on the market. It is however, based on a nasal snuff grind. Its really quite ironic that scotches have turned to primarily oral use. If you were going to design an oral tobacco from scratch to sell, I’d think the last thing you’d want it to be was dry and dusty. You would make it more like snus, or an oral snuff like Copenhagen. So I would not call them impossiby dry and dusty for nasal use, I would call them just right for nasal use. Although a painless technique for their enjoyment requires some practice. Why these managed to survive when others didn’t after the cultural shift in this country is curious. My suspicion is because they were so plain, they don’t taste awful in the mouth as compared to another variety of nasal snuff. And with nasal use in steep decline or reduced to a neglibable level, the makers of the other varieties simply stopped makng them. There have been other start up snuffs in the USA over the years by various independent enterprises. These are not usually scotch snuffs. The most recent is Dark Horse.
Sam Gawith also has some Scotch snuffs which are not similar to the American Scotch snuffs.
I’ve been pondering this question since I got my first scotch a couple months ago. I bought honest that was the only scotch the tobacco stores around here sell. It takes some extra effort and time to take a pinch but I think it’s worth it. I like it’s simplicity and nicotine delivery. Ive managed to get through 3/4 of a tin so far and now my interests in English and other American scotches have peaked. I’ve now tried a few English snuffs and a schmallzer but my next order is going to consist of toasts scotches and non mentholated schmallzers. I honestly don’t see the upside in dipping any dry snuff. Although my dip habit has pretty much ended with my discovery of Swedish snus. How would you pack a dip of dry snuff anyways. I guess I should try it before I knock it
The word actually, according to various sources, stems from the word ‘scorched’ meaning toasted. Although Scottish snuff came to be known as ‘Scotch’ its not because it originated there. The type is usually traced back to the Lundy Foot snuff works in Ireland. The fine grind - increasing the surface area thus making a more efficient way of delivering the nicotine - is what makes it feel so strong in the pinch, although there are some distinctly higher nicotine scotch snuffs. Sly - I take a small pinch and tuck between lip and gum, as with regular dip. I have read that old folks in the deep South would dip a stick in the can and take it from that.
This text explains the difference between Scotch and Irish. “Scotch snuff, which is said to be the purest of all, is made almost entirely from the stalks of tobacco; and this being a dry snuff, as little moisture as possible is added—merely sufficient to prevent the finer particles from escaping and being lost in the act of powdering or grinding, which would otherwise occur. The stalks, cut up into small pieces, are introduced into a kind of iron mortar. This is furnished with a pestle, heavily weighted, the handle of which is connected with a set of jointed arms or levers, so adjusted as to give it a peculiar rotary and grinding motion, this being the best calculated to effect the reduction of the stalks to powder. A series of twenty or thirty, or more, of these mortars or " mulls” are arranged and fixed on a strong oak table, with similar machinery attached to the pestles of each, and all of which are capable of being worked at the same lime by means of a steam engine and connecting shafts and wheels. After the snuff has been reduced to the requisite degree of fineness, it is removed from the " mulls," and dried and flavoured according to a process peculiar to the different manufacturers. Irish and Welsh snuffs are also dry snuffs ; but before the stalks are reduced to powder, they are subjected to a roasting process in closed cylinders, which assists in imparting the peculiar smell by which these snuffs are characterised These two varieties of dry snuff are ground in mills of a similar description to those employed in the powdering of Scotch snuff: lime-water, and even powdered lime, frequently enter into the composition both of Welsh and Irish snuff Indeed the addition of the former is allowed by the Excise laws. The most celebrated of the Irish snuffs is that manufactured by the firm of Lundy Foot and Co. of Dublin, and from which it takes its name. " Hassall 1854
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Thanks Philip v nice write up and very informative ! Thank you for an interesting read !
You’re welcome, Joe. Another distinction is that Irish is traditionally left unscented. Samuel Gawith’s “Irish ‘D’ Light,” and Wilson’s “Irish High Toast” #22 are the last two remaining genuine Irish snuffs although others would include the Fribourg & Treyer version in the shortlist. Irish D(ry) Light is very similar to Carroll’s “Irish ‘D’ Snuff” once made in Dublin. No snuff is now manufactured in Ireland.
Thank you for the additional information, PhillipS. As always we can rely on you for the best defintions and accurate descriptions. I will bookmark this info and find a way to incorporate this into the Snuffhouse FAQ as soon as I can find the time. I can always use help in perfecting the definitions there.
Alex - Just had a look at the FAQ page. I don’t have broadband so clicked on a film and left it downloading for an hour. Delighted to see the authoritative snuffman Vivian Rose (of G Smith & Sons) in his Charing Cross shop demonstrating how snuff is taken. Note how he advises warming the snuff prior to taking it. Judging from his age the film must have been made in the late 1970s or early 1980s. In later years his hair (what was left of it) went silver but his eyebrows remained dark. I learned quite a lot from Mr. Rose, and also from Jim Palmer at the Haymarket shop of Fribourg & Treyer. The source from which the text is taken is ‘Food and its Adulterations’ by Arthur Hill Hassall and is available on the internet. The conclusion to the chapter on snuff is a joy to read - “Snuff-taking is an equally dirty habit; for not only are the nostrils constantly filled with the brown and earthy-looking powder, but the faeces as well since stomachs come in for their share of it; the face is often smeared with it, the nails filled with it, and the shirt and clothes also stained and dirtied by its use. Every professed, inveterate, and incurable snuff-taker, at a moderate computation, takes one pinch in ten minutes. Every pinch, with the agreeable ceremony of blowing and wiping the nose, and other incidental circumstances, consumes a minute and a half. One minute and a half out of every ten, allowing sixteen hours to a snuff-taking; day, amounts to two hours and twenty-four minutes out of every natural day, or one day out of every ten. One day out of every ten amounts to thirty-six days and a half in a year. Hence, if we suppose the practice to be persisted in for forty years, two entire years of the snuff-taker’s life will be dedicated to tickling his nose, and two more to blowing it.” The expense of snuff, snuff-boxes, and handkerchiefs is also alluded to, and it is calculated “ that by a proper application of the time and money thus lost to the public, a fund might be constituted for the discharge of the national debt.” National debt! George Osborne, please take note - Britain’s debt crisis is solved.
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