a question what is better the original recipe and blend from the original maker of a type of snuff, or the new kid on the block thats remakeing it to there own ideals…

do you try a remake or are you a snuff snob and just keep buying what you know but start muttering bloody pretenders…

me i will and do try new makes of old recipes what about you ???

Anyone who keeps up the tradition is a king, but I’m also a snuff historian, and would love to sniff that which was sniffed 200 years ago. What I snuff as my day to day snuff might upset the ancestors, but I’d love to get my nose round what they were snuffing. 

I’ll try the remakes. Of course I didn’t get to try any of the  original snuffs so I won’t know any difference. But I’ll also keep buying my old favorites. Hope that helped.

I’m a snuff snob! There has been a lot of buffoonery that I have seen in this business. I thank goodness there is  this site for learning and discerning the real McCoys’s from the Hatfields’s. 

Juxtaposer you are crazy. First off your magazine is sometimes really interesting and now you think that hats grow in fields!

I heard that in West Virginia hats really do grow in fields…

Nope…not around these parts.  Maybe over Kentucky-way.

I’ll try anything once.

Samuel Gawith Kendal Brown.

Does this topic and question pertain to the Fribourg & Treyer snuffs as well…?  I mean, Wilsons did buy them out, and their recipes, right?  But, wouldn’t that also mean that it is now made by a different manufacturer than the old F&T…?  So, the old world F&T’s would be different…  I feel like I’m going in a loop…

I would love to try some Old World Bordeaux :-P 

"Is there realy a snuff out there that is yonks oud, and not been changed in some way? " These are all old British snuffs that have stood the test of time, even if the origin isn‘t necessarily British. Kendal Brown (not those fakes by Wilsons or Fribourg & Treyer) Princes - known in the past as Princes Mixture. A coarse scented black snuff. Black Rappee - coarse, unscented black snuff fermented in brine. London Brown - coarse and unscented, resembling sugar painted with molasses Irish High Toast - high dried, fine, light and biscuit coloured. SP - SP might stand for Spanish, but the Wilsons of Sharrow versions are similar to Queen’s Snuff, a Brown Scotch scented with bergamot, lavender and lemon essence. Other versions are plainer. No company has any proprietary claim over these snuffs and there are variations. It is probable, however, that a snuff taker in the 1850s would immediately recognise them as versions today as they would have 150+ years ago. Old names made by Sharrow under the F&T label include Old Paris and Bureau. When based at the Haymarket Masulipatam and Etrenne could also be bought. I really liked Masulipatem although by that time the tobacco was sourced from Cuba instead of India. Etrenne (which I didn’t like at all) was only on the list for 20 years or so, but was a popular snuff in the 19th century. How far removed from the original these snuffs are/were one cannot say. John Hardham (1712-1772) based at No. 37, Fleet Street was a very successful snuff chandler whose mixture - Hardham’s No.37 - was one of the most successful British snuffs of all time. His secret recipe was passed on down the generations. The only snuffer I know old enough to have tried it before it became extinct in the early 1950s is Professor Philips Griffiths.

"Does this topic and question pertain to the Fribourg & Treyer snuffs as well…? I mean, Wilsons did buy them out, and their recipes, right? " Wrong, Mike. Wilsons of Sharrow didn’t buy F&T out - they were forcibly closed down by Imperial Tobacco Group in December 1981. The corporation also closed down J&H Wilson’s snuff manufacture at Westbrook Mill in Sheffield.

Very good information, @PhilipS. I always enjoy your posts, you are very knowledgable.

I will definitely be ordering some Kendal Brown (I think I’ll try the GH version first) and probaly some London Brown on my next order. I still have some Scotch Black that I enjoy from time to time when I’m in the mood for something more pungent.

@PhilipS : That’s a pretty shitty ordeal…  So, what happened with WoS and F&T?  Did they purchase F&T’s recipes after that mess?

And yes I must agree, Philip, you are full of information!  I really enjoyed reading that.

From what I gather, a lot of the old F&T recipes have been spoiled by the use of different tobaccos. The flavoring ingredients are probably the same, but the tobacco bases have been substituted with burley etc. I don’t know how much actual difference this makes to the taste though, so it might be so close as to not matter.

“That’s a pretty shitty ordeal… So, what happened with WoS and F&T? Did they purchase F&T”'s recipes after that mess? After Imperial ended 261 years of trading by Fribourg and Treyer the snuff was sold in the same tall tins by J&H Wilsons of Westbrook Mill in Sheffield - also owned by Imperial since 1953. There were, however, several small differences in the labelling. The London phone number was missing (obviously) as was the tiny caption “175 Years in the Bridgman-Evans Family.” The reason for closure was that the dwindling clientele of snuff aficionados could no longer justify operations from London, where costs were so much higher. Increase in rent, rates and overheads was accompanied by development around the Haymarket making it less attractive to the usual West End customer. (The last and rather elderly shop manager, Jim Palmer, worked there throughout the Blitz; sometimes wonder what happened to him after 1981.) I’m a little hazy about exact dates so don‘t quote me on this, but t’other Wilsons at Sharrow must have bought the rights prior to or shortly after the closure of Westbrook Mill in 1989.

Great information, Philip. Even though the F&T is no more, aren’t we lucky that WoS has withstood the test of time and changing tastes to make such great snuffs–including some of the old F&T line. I sincerely wish that Wilsons would bring back more of them, and I recently wrote them a letter to that effect. Hopefully one day it will happen.

“Is it not the case that F&Ts were based around Zimbabwe tobacco (presumably Rhodesia at the time)? I would imagine baccy leaves are not readily available from that region these days; at least since Mugabe went round the twist. Might explain a difference in old vs new, rather than fidelity to recipe.” A reasonable surmise, but in this topsy-turvy world your reasoning is actually the other way round. According to my little paper booklet available from the shop the tobacco for their snuff was “chiefly” from Malawi, Cuba, Canada and the USA. What the situation was prior to 1965 is unknown to me, but in that year Ian Smith’s government in Rhodesia declared unilateral independence from Britain, did not hold free and fair elections, and embarked on a policy of apartheid. Consequently there was a total trade embargo and no tobacco from Rhodesia came to Britain (unless smuggled) while Malawi‘s tobacco exports soared. Britain can no longer impose sanctions. That power now lies with Brussels. ‘Sanctions’ affecting Mugabe’s regime by the EU do not currently cover tobacco exports - or any other sort of export - as only certain individuals and state businesses are affected. As an American might say - go figure.

Yes, Furious, it’s both remarkable and fortunate that Wilsons have survived so long. Most companies proudly advertise their establishment dates as 1970, 1937 or even 1899. Not many businesses can claim establishment in 1737 when George II was monarch. In the 18th and early 19th centuries alone the mill at Sharrow and the world has seen - Methodist Church founded by John Wesley Seven Years War James Cook’s discovery and exploration of the east coast of Australia Publication of works by Goethe, Rousseau, Voltaire, Locke, Smith and Hume American Independence French Revolution Industrial Revolution Abolition of Slavery

As a Methodist I like to read this, PhilipS. ;-))

Remarkable, Philip! We can only hope that those brave souls at Wilsons can continue the operation for many, many years to come. Like all of us on this forum, I have come to love the anachronism that is snuff and the old Lakeland manufacturers of same.

SP - SP might stand for Spanish, but the Wilsons of Sharrow versions are similar to Queen’s Snuff, a Brown Scotch scented with bergamot, lavender and lemon essence. Other versions are plainer.

Another school of thought here is that, sometime between 1740-1745 SP was Sheffield Pride but any possible record of whether SP was Sheffield Pride or just plain SPanish would have been among the papers, machinery (mostly wooden) and tons of tobacco and snuff destroyed by a fire at Sharrow Mills in 1746. As to Queen’s / Tom Buck (one and the same snuff, marketed under two names for historical reasons) this is a “Strong SP” - both more highly flavoured with bergamot (and other essences) and a stronger tobacco base (higher nicotine yield). As a personal note, I recommend both Wilsons’ Best SP and Queen’s / Tom Buck highly. Both are among the half dozen sorts I buy most frequently.

No snobbery here. I assess each snuff I try as an individual product, and don’t care what it’s called or who makes it. I either like it, or I don’t. Sometimes I prefer something as a mixer rather than used on it’s own, and will mix snuffs that others would consider a sacrilege to mix with a snuff from elsewhere. There are makers I veer towards or away from due to the probability of me liking a product, but I don’t consider that certain snuff types should come from certain mills, or that any makers have inherent superiority over others. I have no brand loyalty, and will happily praise and criticise snuff from everywhere, whether they are members here or not I do detect snobbery here sometimes, and do find it a little off-putting. By nature I am rather anti-hype, and when a reverence starts getting bestowed in certain directions (even if I am a big fan of some of their products), I sometimes find myself veering towards other products for a while. Maybe I’m just bloody awkward :>

I don’t know that I detect any snobbery on the forum, but then I’m new here. I see nothing wrong with someone saying, for example, “So-and-so makes the BEST SPs!”, though I find it presumptuous to make such statements given individual tastes and so on. Some might consider such statements an example of snuff snobberry however, and disagree vehemently with such statements. At the end of the day, whatever you like is what’s best. No amount of fans of any snuff I don’t like will ever convince me that it’s good.

In fairness @Tobe there is a lot less snobbery or elitism here than what there seemed to be a couple of years back. Maybe a lot of it was just my personal perception with being new, but it seems a lot more open minded round these parts lately. When I first started kicking around on here, it often seemed like there was a lot more “group think”, and an aversion to certain types of snuff meant you were doing it wrong. These days diversity of tastes seems a lot more accepted. Again, it may just be a perception thing though, so don’t read too much into my comments.

I agree with y’all on this. Seems like even in the last year, people are speaking very freely about their opinions and not grouping into a mob mentality at least as much as before. This is good. I like when some criticize revered snuffs and types/ brands I have a big loyalty towards. It’s a form of keeping us in check. Gotta say there are many here whose opinion I highly regard and appreciate even their ramblings but seriously we do have a wealth of info here!

I’ve noticed bits of snobbery here. Not much, mind you, but sometimes I can read between the lines and detect a very subtle snootiness. I can’t remember the user names. But I try to steer clear of it, even though I have been using snuff since the Summer of Love, 1969. I remember the infamous “CokeSnuff” in the incense-like strawberry scent. Yeah, that was a long f-ing time ago my friends. But its no cause for snobbiness. I’ve actually turned into kind of a “snuffwhore”, in that I like almost every snuff, buy way more than I could ever possibly use. I think most snuffers are pretty reasonable people, and that comes through in the posts…

@mrmanos I too, am a “snuffwhore.”  Never met a snuff I didn’t like. Have enough for this plus another lifetime, and I keep buying

For sure, there’s a huge amount of knowledge here. I’ve learnt a great deal from folks at this place. I think it’s good we all come at things from different angles and can express things freely but respectfully. There’s something for everyone here, and I think the forum has overall become a more welcoming place than when I first joined. We’re bound to get the odd social hiccup from time to time, but I think there’s certainly enough warmth, kindness and understanding here to comfortably see us through the occasional upset or misunderstanding

That’s before my time, so I’ll have to defer to your wisdom on that Andrew

1971 here. Much like ozona snuffyweiss  but with different scenting . Levi Garrett was my snuff and Red man was my chewing tobacco I liked Lucky Strike when I could get them,Burglar,Tops ryo. Winchester little cigars and some times dutch masters. Phillies blunts and Prince Albert. I am so glad tobacco choices have got so much better over the last 45 yrs. I have no opinion on this subject. I am quite finished keeping up with the Jones. 

@basement_shaman  Those tins are groovy. I stole the picture for my files.

@haemony Cool .not my picture anyway. I used to get these at a hippy shop for $0.25 .The shop was Nostalgia Boutique .I used to make sand candles and sold them there on consignment. My friend mother would macrame holders made from hemp for them. I can still remember as you walked in the smell of all the oils and incense they sold there .