a question what is better the original recipe and blend from the original maker of a type of snuff, or the new kid on the block thats remakeing it to there own ideals…
do you try a remake or are you a snuff snob and just keep buying what you know but start muttering bloody pretenders…
me i will and do try new makes of old recipes what about you ???
Anyone who keeps up the tradition is a king, but I’m also a snuff historian, and would love to sniff that which was sniffed 200 years ago. What I snuff as my day to day snuff might upset the ancestors, but I’d love to get my nose round what they were snuffing.
I’ll try the remakes. Of course I didn’t get to try any of the original snuffs so I won’t know any difference. But I’ll also keep buying my old favorites. Hope that helped.
I’m a snuff snob! There has been a lot of buffoonery that I have seen in this business. I thank goodness there is this site for learning and discerning the real McCoys’s from the Hatfields’s.
Juxtaposer you are crazy. First off your magazine is sometimes really interesting and now you think that hats grow in fields!
I heard that in West Virginia hats really do grow in fields…
Nope…not around these parts. Maybe over Kentucky-way.
I’ll try anything once.
Samuel Gawith Kendal Brown.
Does this topic and question pertain to the Fribourg & Treyer snuffs as well…? I mean, Wilsons did buy them out, and their recipes, right? But, wouldn’t that also mean that it is now made by a different manufacturer than the old F&T…? So, the old world F&T’s would be different… I feel like I’m going in a loop…
I would love to try some Old World Bordeaux :-P
"Is there realy a snuff out there that is yonks oud, and not been changed in some way? " These are all old British snuffs that have stood the test of time, even if the origin isn‘t necessarily British. Kendal Brown (not those fakes by Wilsons or Fribourg & Treyer) Princes - known in the past as Princes Mixture. A coarse scented black snuff. Black Rappee - coarse, unscented black snuff fermented in brine. London Brown - coarse and unscented, resembling sugar painted with molasses Irish High Toast - high dried, fine, light and biscuit coloured. SP - SP might stand for Spanish, but the Wilsons of Sharrow versions are similar to Queen’s Snuff, a Brown Scotch scented with bergamot, lavender and lemon essence. Other versions are plainer. No company has any proprietary claim over these snuffs and there are variations. It is probable, however, that a snuff taker in the 1850s would immediately recognise them as versions today as they would have 150+ years ago. Old names made by Sharrow under the F&T label include Old Paris and Bureau. When based at the Haymarket Masulipatam and Etrenne could also be bought. I really liked Masulipatem although by that time the tobacco was sourced from Cuba instead of India. Etrenne (which I didn’t like at all) was only on the list for 20 years or so, but was a popular snuff in the 19th century. How far removed from the original these snuffs are/were one cannot say. John Hardham (1712-1772) based at No. 37, Fleet Street was a very successful snuff chandler whose mixture - Hardham’s No.37 - was one of the most successful British snuffs of all time. His secret recipe was passed on down the generations. The only snuffer I know old enough to have tried it before it became extinct in the early 1950s is Professor Philips Griffiths.
"Does this topic and question pertain to the Fribourg & Treyer snuffs as well…? I mean, Wilsons did buy them out, and their recipes, right? " Wrong, Mike. Wilsons of Sharrow didn’t buy F&T out - they were forcibly closed down by Imperial Tobacco Group in December 1981. The corporation also closed down J&H Wilson’s snuff manufacture at Westbrook Mill in Sheffield.
Very good information, @PhilipS. I always enjoy your posts, you are very knowledgable.
I will definitely be ordering some Kendal Brown (I think I’ll try the GH version first) and probaly some London Brown on my next order. I still have some Scotch Black that I enjoy from time to time when I’m in the mood for something more pungent.
@PhilipS : That’s a pretty shitty ordeal… So, what happened with WoS and F&T? Did they purchase F&T’s recipes after that mess?
And yes I must agree, Philip, you are full of information! I really enjoyed reading that.
From what I gather, a lot of the old F&T recipes have been spoiled by the use of different tobaccos. The flavoring ingredients are probably the same, but the tobacco bases have been substituted with burley etc. I don’t know how much actual difference this makes to the taste though, so it might be so close as to not matter.
“That’s a pretty shitty ordeal… So, what happened with WoS and F&T? Did they purchase F&T”'s recipes after that mess? After Imperial ended 261 years of trading by Fribourg and Treyer the snuff was sold in the same tall tins by J&H Wilsons of Westbrook Mill in Sheffield - also owned by Imperial since 1953. There were, however, several small differences in the labelling. The London phone number was missing (obviously) as was the tiny caption “175 Years in the Bridgman-Evans Family.” The reason for closure was that the dwindling clientele of snuff aficionados could no longer justify operations from London, where costs were so much higher. Increase in rent, rates and overheads was accompanied by development around the Haymarket making it less attractive to the usual West End customer. (The last and rather elderly shop manager, Jim Palmer, worked there throughout the Blitz; sometimes wonder what happened to him after 1981.) I’m a little hazy about exact dates so don‘t quote me on this, but t’other Wilsons at Sharrow must have bought the rights prior to or shortly after the closure of Westbrook Mill in 1989.
Great information, Philip. Even though the F&T is no more, aren’t we lucky that WoS has withstood the test of time and changing tastes to make such great snuffs–including some of the old F&T line. I sincerely wish that Wilsons would bring back more of them, and I recently wrote them a letter to that effect. Hopefully one day it will happen.
Is it not the case that F&Ts were based around Zimbabwe tobacco (presumably Rhodesia at the time)? I would imagine baccy leaves are not readily available from that region these days; at least since Mugabe went round the twist. Might explain a difference in old vs new, rather than fidelity to recipe.
Just a thought.
Dave
“Is it not the case that F&Ts were based around Zimbabwe tobacco (presumably Rhodesia at the time)? I would imagine baccy leaves are not readily available from that region these days; at least since Mugabe went round the twist. Might explain a difference in old vs new, rather than fidelity to recipe.” A reasonable surmise, but in this topsy-turvy world your reasoning is actually the other way round. According to my little paper booklet available from the shop the tobacco for their snuff was “chiefly” from Malawi, Cuba, Canada and the USA. What the situation was prior to 1965 is unknown to me, but in that year Ian Smith’s government in Rhodesia declared unilateral independence from Britain, did not hold free and fair elections, and embarked on a policy of apartheid. Consequently there was a total trade embargo and no tobacco from Rhodesia came to Britain (unless smuggled) while Malawi‘s tobacco exports soared. Britain can no longer impose sanctions. That power now lies with Brussels. ‘Sanctions’ affecting Mugabe’s regime by the EU do not currently cover tobacco exports - or any other sort of export - as only certain individuals and state businesses are affected. As an American might say - go figure.
Yes, Furious, it’s both remarkable and fortunate that Wilsons have survived so long. Most companies proudly advertise their establishment dates as 1970, 1937 or even 1899. Not many businesses can claim establishment in 1737 when George II was monarch. In the 18th and early 19th centuries alone the mill at Sharrow and the world has seen - Methodist Church founded by John Wesley Seven Years War James Cook’s discovery and exploration of the east coast of Australia Publication of works by Goethe, Rousseau, Voltaire, Locke, Smith and Hume American Independence French Revolution Industrial Revolution Abolition of Slavery