One of the things I’ve discovered in my four months of serious snuffing is that I’m strangely attracted to certain snuffs that smell very offensive when judged by everyday standards. I seem to recall other, more experienced snuff takers alluding to the same thing: it seems that some of the most deeply cherished snuffs are those which have a scent that only a connoissuer could love. I can’t claim connoisseur status yet, but to my nose, there are four main scents that most people would claim to find offensive, but which become irresistable when skillfully incorporated into certain snuffs; Barnyard = Dholakia Black and Taxi Red are the two that immediately come to mind. I spent a lot of time around horses when I was younger, and these remind me of standing behind one, including the kick. I love them both, and I would like to know of more snuffs that have this character. Ammonia = NTSU Black should not be aired out. The ammonia is what makes it what it is, and I feel like I should make a special trip to Confession every time I use it, and enjoy it for the reasons I enjoy it. Locker Room = Dholakia White smells like a fishstall on a hot day sometimes, and like a pair of socks I’ve worn for a week straight on others. There’s also a strong ammonia hit to it, as if the fishy, sweaty odor wasn’t enough. Deeply offensive and absolutely addictive. I think Roderick said on another thread that some men are attracted to this scent because it reminds them of the comraderie of their younger days when they were involved in sports, but the sports I was heavily involved in were bicycle racing and distance running, which I still do. People who ride in Paris-Roubaix or run marathons don’t have much time to spend in locker rooms, so I don’t know where I come by this attraction. Wet Dirt = I seem to recall a French term used in wine tasting, something which loosely translates into “beautiful dirt” which I can’t remember at the moment, but some of my favorite snuffs remind me of falling face down in a field of dark soil during a spring rain storm. I’m thinking in particular of F&T Santo Domingo since I’ve been snuffing so much of that lately. Sometimes, the barnyard and wet dirt thing are going at the same time, and then I’m really in seventh heaven. On the other hand, there’s the “wet dog” thing, which most people find offensive in everyday life, and which NO snuff takers of whom I’m aware find attractive. Or is this something I will grow to love as I gain more experience? Comments, criticisms or observations?

cant stand toque champaigne or samuel gawith golden glow or wilsons of sharrow aniseed eucalyptus not too keen on jaxons cherry menthol either.

my absolute favourite is toque original.

The only scents I really don’t care for are artifical candy type flavors. Even those which are probably natural, but feel artifical bother me.

But those articial candy type flavors are viewed as delightful by most of the rest of the world, while I’m fantasizing about old tires, coal mines, sitting in an unairconditioned tar paper shack after a Mississippi river flood drinking home brew boubon with a lady of ill repute, burning upholstery, moldy wood, the defecation of barnyard animals, dead fish, and the way the bathroom smells at your favorite biker bar. Of course, we’re not in the same boat as hard core real French Cheese conniosseurs, but I’ll bet that boat would smell far different from the one de Kralingse Macuba calls to mind.

Maybe I am on the road to becoming a connoisseur although I am very new to snuff. I find I am liking Dholakia Black and it is sort of barnyard scented, I also grew up around horses and cattle. I also love the fresh rich dark dirt of some of the F&T snuffs, perhaps that comes from childhood memories of farming and I have always loved the smell of rich potting soil and enjoyed planting things and digging in the dirt. The ammonia scent of NTSU was too much for me, I did not like it and am not drawn to it in any fashion. As for the Dholakia White I have been unable to snuff enough of it to really decide on what it smells like. It seems to be painful to take and painful to smell.

It is obvious that memory association plays a large part in your snuff preferences. (The association between olfaction and the limbic system is more intimate in some people than others.) Concerning the question of fragrance … Imagine how dull and insipid a novel would be if every event in the story only came up smelling of roses, and with all the characters’ methods and morals as freshly pomaded as their herb-scented bathwater. The character of Mother Teresa might be closer to her god, but Lucrezia Borgia is a more interesting and complex person. Snuffs that are less than immediately pleasant are the interesting ones. A snuff with a delightful nose soon looses its appeal because the limbic system interprets it only as delightful. The experience soon becomes jaded.

@ dgriego I don’t know what to say about the Dholakia White. Everybody has to find a technique that works for them with this one, or just give it up. For me, it’s the only snuff that can be taken by breathing through your nose as hard as you would if you were sitting at rest, and then slowly moving your very small pinch toward your nose until it’s in your nostrils. I too love the rich dark dirt of F&T’s Santo Domingo, Princes and Princes Special. The Old Paris reminds me more of indoors, but with the same general character. I’ve got some Samuel Gawith Kendal Brown Original which seems to have the same general character, but it’s rather dried out, and I’ve been unsuccesful at rehydrating it.

@ LHB, I used to add some water to snuff to rehydrate it but usually ended up with a lot of clumps in the tin. What I do now is to spread the snuff on a piece of plastic and then spray some water over it. Leave it for a while and then back into the tin. Works perfect.

@ Pieter Claasen Thank you for the tip. Since it’s a Samuel Gawith blend, it’s in one of those 10 gram dispensers with the slide hole on the bottom, so I’ve been trying to rehydrate it in the container. I’ve got four others though, so I’m thinking I should just empty them out, do as you suggest, and then transfer them to another, airtight container. Right now, the snuff has the consistency of dry coffee grounds. It’s not entirely unpleasant, but it feels rather dry and granular in the nose, which doesn’t seem quite right. On the other hand, it generates a phenomenal blow, which I’m really coming to appreciate, and I suspect it would be even better if the stuff was moister.

The point of offensive smells is your nose saying avoid that. I.e. don’t eat that poo or don’t drink that amonia. Maybe somehow the more subtle nuances that really makes a smell bad (turn on your danger senses) isn’t in the snuff but the snuff still has a similar profile so it’s not offensive because your nose can tell you it’s not dangerous. Just a theory.

Over time I settled into an overwhelming preference for the classic types: toasts, scotches, SPs, a good menthol such as Hedges L260, a well-balanced Kendal Brown… I believe that these are well established classics for a reason, in that none of them subordinate their well-rounded tobacco flavor to an over-fragrant flavor bouquet. It’s not a coincidence that the finest cigars are pure tobacco and not “toffee” or “strawberry delight” flavored. Of course there are those occasions in which I desire a couple of pinches of an exotic Indian blend or a lingering, heavily perfumed Fribourg & Treyer snuff, but not as an all day or even more than once per week snuff. As for barnyard and ammonia smells, well, those are things I seek to do without in life. Each to his/her own, but, um, personally speaking – no thank you! I’m willing to bet that these were considered undesirable qualities in snuff until very recently. There are a few people on the Beavis & Butthead snus-oriented forum who have a misguided notion that piss soaked-smelling snuff is a sign of quality and “freshness” (perhaps they prefer their wine to be a week old as well), but I think that is ludicrous. My surmise is that in the slow transport and pre-vacuum packaging era, it was rare to even encounter fresh ammonia-laden snuff. “Wet Dog”: I hope that won’t be the next Toque flavo(u)r.

@ kjoerup Humbug, I say. What do you think most things smelled like in the “slow transport and pre-vacuum packaging era?” People bathed once in a lifetime if they were lucky, urban dwellers gasped for air beneath the stench of a million coal fires, streets were lined with human and animal refuse, and everybody had at least two sexually transmitted diseases. Those so-called “classic scents” as they appear nowadays are probably about as classic as Lean Cuisine Pizza and Coors Light. I’m an atavistic throwback, I admit it. So I’m not talking about freshness; I’m talking about character. Give me the stink of a great aged French Cheese, covered with mold, over a container of stacked, packed and vaccum sealed Kraft Cheddar. Give me a dirty bottle of crusty old Port with four inches of sediment on the bottom that has to be decanted, over one of your hygeinic modern fruit-bombs with the plastic cork. Give me an old, out of level, tumbledown, shotgun shack in South Dallas, and keep your giraffe cage McMansions up in McKinney. Give me Janis Joplin and a bottle of 100 proof Southern Comfort, and you can have Beyonce and a bottle of Grey Goose Vodka. Give me “The Wire” and “Deadwood”, and you can have “Adam 12” and “Gunsmoke.” Give me the filthy, genuine analog(ue) sludge of Iggy and the Stooges and the New York Dolls, and have all you want of your digitized, manufactured lo-fi pap like Pavement and Sebadoh played over your computer. Not that I don’t get extreme enjoyment from a good, clean, wholesome “modern” SP or Toast, although I often have difficulty perceiving the “well rounded tobacco flavor” of Hedges beneath its nose-blistering (but delightful) menthol hit. But let’s not be too anachronistic.

I’m not romanticizing anything here. I don’t believe that there is anything faceless or banal about any of the snuff types I am describing. Love them or hate them, you cannot seriously say that W.E. Garrett or IHT No. 22 lack character. Being that you and I are the only ones willing to step up to the plate and wax lyrically about Brunswick and American Sweets indicates that we are pretty much on the same page. “Character,” why, yes, I agree with you – in general terms. However, certain specifics we are just going to have to agree to disagree upon. I have really come to appreciate the 1910 rose water-soaked industrial sludge that is Railroad Mills Maccoboy, but ammonia and barnyard just ain’t my thing. Don’t even get me started on the locker room thing. Roderick said it best, and I’ll leave his implications just where he left them. Old Paris is among the most mysterious of snuffs. Is it just me or does each tin seem to be something entirely different? I can well do without Janis Joplin, but, believe me, you will not find the flimsy likes of Pavement or Sebadoh in this house. My copy of Fun House is the well-played LP I’ve always owned, and my Fall and Swell Maps singles are likewise worn to hell – just as they should be.

I really like F&T French Carotte. A lot of people have written that they find it to be of an “offensive” nature, but I’ve never understood what they find “nasty” about this rather polite snuff.

re: French Carotte - I think some don’t get along with sandalwood, or sweetness. I however find both French Carottes I have to have both in balanced proportions.

I have the same experience with Old Paris, I’ve ordered many times and it seems different most of the times. French Carotte is another favorite of mine.

old paris really seems to age well. Get a tin take a few snuffs and leave it alone for about two months check it out again and see if smells somewhat diffrent. Pavement sucks but sebadoh is alright I mean they’re no dinosaur jr.

Quote Kjoerup As for barnyard and ammonia smells, well, those are things I seek to do without in life. Each to his/her own, but, um, personally speaking – no thank you! I’m willing to bet that these were considered undesirable qualities in snuff until very recently. There are a few people on the Beavis & Butthead snus-oriented forum who have a misguided notion that piss soaked-smelling snuff is a sign of quality and “freshness” (perhaps they prefer their wine to be a week old as well), but I think that is ludicrous. unquote @Kjoerup… There are so many snuffs on the market today simply because everyone has different tastes. I don’t know anyone on either board that has stated that they like the ammonia odor. As far as the Barnyard odor I only have one thing to say…Spanish Jewel. btw, the members of both this board and, as you say, the Beavis and Butthead snus board, try to respect each others actions and opinions. I have never read anything negative about this board on the snus site and I have never read anything negative [untill now] about the snus board on this site. I believe there is a great mutual respect, at least by the older more experianced members of each board. Besides providing information about tobacco products the members on the other forum like to have fun, and they do. There is a forum devoted to all things not tobacco related where jokes and unrelated crap is posted. Most of the rest of the site is pretty much tobacco related with a ton of info.

*raises hand* I like the ammonia odor.

omg…you do? Ok, then I’m wrong. Maybe we should take a poll. If there are enough people that enjoy the ammonia maybe Roderik will come out with another flavor. All I hear is everyone asking how to get rid of that odor from freshly made snuff. edit; RODERIK!!! I just put up a poll over on the snus site to find out how many people like or dislike the Ammonia odor. Now I’m curious.

@ PremiumParrots I don’t think you understand the point I was trying to make. I never let the ammonia escape from my NTSU. It just wouldn’t be couth! It’s not that I love ammonia, it’s just part of the NTSU experience. I don’t like the ammonia smell in Toque because it doesn’t belong there. Maybe you should have asked “Do you like snuffs in which an ammonia scent is an integral part of the overall scent of the snuff.” Dholakia White also has a strong ammonia character that stays around a long time. @Kjoerup You’re right, of course, about all those snuffs we both love having plenty of character. But what is the internet for, if not to go off on inebriated rants every now and then!

Hi LHB, I didn’t realize that any snuff was supposed to have the ammonia smell. But I could well see it being intended if there are people that like the odor. If a snuff has an ammonia smell how are we to know if it is part of the manufacturers planned charactor or simply a by product of freshly made snuff?

Those scents are integral to the snuff experience but I think are a natural part of it, ie not contrived. From what Roderick says it seems that the ammonia smell is part and parcel of new snuff - some kind of side effect of the maturation. I don’t like it as a smell, and it airs out quickly on its own, but I do associate with factory fresh snuff - which is the only way to enjoy it (IMO) The snuffs that I can’t abide are those that are contrived and synthetic, That includes all of the new Dholakia range of candy, apple pie and the like. The more the final product is connected to the aromas and texctures of the base tobacco the better. Flavouring, in my view, should just enhance a great base, not be the snuff itself. Both Toque and WoS master this.

I find that the ammonia in NTSU and Dholakia white “heighten” the snuffing experience for want of a better word. I don’t find them offensive in the same way that I don’t find that occasional hit of soap that I get with lakeland pipe tobaccos to be offensive. It’s part of the experience. Ammonia is released from tobacco in the full curing process as those who have experienced tobacco curing can attest. I suspect that curing N. rustica to the point that there were no residual ammonia would rather ruin some of the other attributes (I don’t KNOW this to be true.). But indeed, there are times that I crave that strong snuff ammonia hit. Guess I’m just a weird white/NTSU junkie.

@ Snuffster… I totally agree with your entire post. @ Zanaspus…quote;Ammonia is released from tobacco in the full curing process as those who have experienced tobacco curing can attest. I suspect that curing N. rustica to the point that there were no residual ammonia would rather ruin some of the other attributes (I don’t KNOW this to be true.). unquote. I believe thats probably quite accurate. I say if your fresh snuff smells of ammonia [and its not intended to have that odor] and you are not a fan of that smell then simply let it dry out to your liking. Easily done. Thats one of the great things about snuff. You can adjust some aspects of it. If its too dry, moisten it. If its too moist, dry it out. If you don’t like ammonia smell, air it out. All that and there are thousands of combinations of mixtures of different snuffs to experiment with. Its pretty easy to make it suit your tastes. With that said…ENJOY!! I can see it now… it will take about 3 weeks before Roderik announces his new Ammonia Flavored Snuff. “Produced to replicate the delicate flavor of pee soaked urinal pucks”. I love it. I have to try every new snuff…at least once.

hi PP! I just discovered a urinal puck snuff! Try Raja#5 by 5 Photo. No pee in it though.

Thanks PP. I guess you could liken ammonia smelling snuff to those bunches of bannanas that you buy when they need a copuple of days to ripen. Just air it if you don’t like it and the problem is gone. The snuff just needs to ripen. Urinal puck snuff. Mmmmmmmmm…

I remember that discussion Roderik. I think everyone wants to know that their recently purchased snuff is truly fresh. The ammonia smell is kind of a certification that it is fresh. Its easy to elimiate if needed. I’m getting kind of excited thinking about the possibilty of a urinal puck snuff. not. I’d like to try some tho.

I never had access to Spanish Jewel, so cannot comment on that. Look, I just don’t like barnyard, old sock and locker room redolent snuffs. I never said that anyone who liked such things ought to be denied access to them. Have at it! I also strongly prefer that ammonia be dissipated from a snuff before use, but that is my preference. When I was a naïve snuff neophyte, I initially thought that Toque was the worst snuff in existence, and I couldn’t believe that anyone could like it. Silly me, I quickly learned that the ammonia is an undesirable element that should not be there. I buy from Toque regularly, and the first thing I do upon receipt of each package is to open up every tin and allow them to air out a few hours. I know to do that, but I wonder how many new users do.

I agree I think they should have an ammonia warning on snuffs. If I was roderrick I’d include a little piece of paper on new accounts that warns about the ammonia (of course if I was roderick toque wouldn’t be so freaken awesome). If I was not hipped to the ammonia smell effect I would have really had some bad feelings about toque since my first tin I tried of thiers had a horrible ammonia smell to it. I agree about how the ammonia smell is like a certificate of freshness. I recently got a macouba F&T snuff with tons of ammonia smell, didn’t like the smell but it excited me to know it was that fresh. My toque vanilla also had lots of ammonia (and was really frankly gross before being aired out.).

Man thats a really good point about Roderik warning people. A really good point. Think about all the people that try snuffing for the first time and their reaction if its really fresh with the ammonia odor. They would never take another hit if they thought all snuff smelled that way. A small warning on the label is something that Toque might seriously consider. I also leave my new tins of Torque open for a while as I don’t really like the Ammonia smell. I put up a poll over at the Beavis and Butthead site to see what others think about this ammonia odor issue. It will be interesting to see what everybody thinks. As far as the barnyard, sweaty socks odor goes…that, I believe is an accquired taste. I know about 3 years ago I tried the Spanish Jewel and didn’t like the smell at all. But I only had several pinches to try out. I tried it again a few months ago when I received a gram or so and I thought it was great. Same thing with Toques Cheeze and Bacon. The first few pinches I didn’t like at all but I knew others really liked it so I kept doing it for several days. It only took about 3 days before I thought that its great. In fact I think its the best snuff Roderik produces. I have a variety of Toques that I use on the rare occasion but that C&B is pure heaven. The SJ smells just like dung to me…but I have grown to love it. I’d take a pound if I could get it. Its possible that our overall tastes slowly change the longer we snuff. That certainly is the case with snus. Its also possible that subconciously we associate the great nic hit of the SJ and the C&B with the weird smell. And that might make us crave it more. Who knows?? Of course this is all speculation and my humble opinion. If you ask my wife she will always tell you that I am wrong…again.

Sigh!!! It looks like only Zanaspus gets the point I was indirectly trying to make, and I can tell he/she “gets it” by the snuffs referred to and the way they are discussed. Loving the ammonia character that’s integral to snuffs like NTSU Black and Menthol and Dholakia White HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FRESHNESS, or any other kind of rationalistic assesment of the sensory components of snuff! I don’t know how to say this without leading into a very off-color discussion, so let me imply it as indirectly as I possibly can: If F&T Bordeaux reminds you of the eroticism of a high-end brothel, NTSU and Dholakia White have the chest-pounding eroticism of a one-off encounter in the “ladies” section of an Interstate Highway Restroom while your wife is waiting in the car. I’m starting to thing that all y’all’s wives may be a little frustrated with all y’all, as a result of your never sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong, if I make myself clear. Do I make myself clear without having to make myself clear!?! @ Xander You must have access to some extremely fine restrooms.

@LHB: I knew what you were getting at, and I really did not mean to derail your thread and turn it into a Toque freshness discussion. (Beavis and/or Butthead: “Heh! He said FRESHNESS!”) I don’t want to be with a woman who smells like barnyard and/or NTSU. I’ve heard people say that F&T French Carotte reminds them of you-know-what, but I can only conclude that they are 14-year-old virgins if they think that. The closest any of those F&T snuffs get to that is that some of them smell remarkably similar to a deodorant tampon, i.e. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

ummm…ROTFLMMFAOPIMP!!! carry on yea sorry for my part in the derail.

@ LHB: nope, its the urinal cake in one of those interstate highway restrooms. Actually those are kind of high class comparitively. Its like the urinal cake in the johnny-on-the-spot booths that they have on construction sites and fairgrounds. The nic kicked like a mule though. Dholakia Black with urinal cake is what it was like. Good idea for Toque to put a little sticker on the backs of the tins. American Spirit cigarettes send out instrucions not to pack their cigarettes, but to loosen them! Same kind of thing.

@Bob - what’s this? Pavement sucks? no way, dude!

I like a full diesel aroma. Barnyard and ammonia are better than rust or pus.

@LHB It’s “he” the last I checked, though at my age, I’m as effective as a she

The smoke from cigarettes smells pretty pungent to most non smokers, yet many smokers have the pavlovian dog sort of ‘I want’ response when smelling it. For right or wrong, if people are associating the smell with 'fresh strong snuff" and the resulting reward, then they just are I think something like that is going on here, plus frankly, commercial things that reek of perfume shops are all around us. Check out any ‘air freshner’ items to see my point. I’ll even go you one farther, the smell of a skunk even (as long as its not TOO strong) is not even that bad of a smell. A whole lot of ‘what smells bad’ are actually socially taught to us. to me, ammonia and other unusual not-so-marketable smells are the same way, especially when I have direct control over the intensity of which I’ll smell them (as you do with snuff and its intake). There is a point at which an actual barnyard is quite a miserable smell, no doubt, but maybe you remember your father or your granddad coming in fresh from the barn and the way he smelled, etc I just don’t think its sexual-smell based (the point I guess was being a bit driven at) EDITED to add: I would seriously really rather deal with a dog who’s had a run in with a skunk (and needs and old fashioned tomato-based bath) than some old woman who’s just bathed in her favorite crap perfume and then decided to inflict herself on an entire captive restaurant. (so many of these socially taught smells are far worse than anything our good earth can provide)

You know what is offensive is this constant brown stuff running out of my nose. How do you guys do it? I am trying to use nasal only to quit dipping but my nose is runny and always raw from wiping it

It gets better with time, Kincaidc. Your nose will get used to the snuff and will run less, and toughen up and not be so raw, or mine did. Using a soft hankie or even nice tissues is also preferable to, say, TP or paper towels, as they aren’t as rough on the nose. Edit: with the risk of being put on the out of context quote page, I will also mention to blow when you feel you must.

@kincaidc try a different snuff (seriously) I have found some make me run like crazy (usually strong moist coarse ones) where drier finer ones are more likely to leave my nose quite dry. Some people intentionally use this to adjust so stuff doesn’t just sit up there being too dry or being too runny (they’ll use a bit of one followed by the other to get a desired level)

This strikes me as similar to pipe tobacco preferences; when I started out I liked the Dutch/Danish-style “candy” smelling tobaccos, then graduated to the stronger-smelling English and Balkan types like Three Nuns and Balkan Sobranie (of which my dad always compares the latter to ‘a Balkan woman’s armpits,’ but he absolutely LOVES the stuff). Kind of like when you were a kid, if you could get away with eating sweets and cakes all day, you would; but as you get older, you begin craving “good” food, even food which strikes an untutored palate as being gross (like Stilton cheese, the Gods’ greatest gift to all cheese lovers). I, too, appreciate the “bucolic” smell of such snuffs as Five Photo Raja #5, and the ammonia-smell of NTSU and Taxi. There is a related phenomenon, which I thought the thread was about before reading it: the fact that, in snuff as well as in pipe tobacco, there are some tobaccos which smell foul until actually used. There are pipe tobaccos that smell hideous until you actually light up, and there are snuffs which smell hideous until you actually snuff them. I got a sample in a smashbox from Tom (at NicotineRush) awhile back and it smelled like fish. Fish! And for the longest time I thought, “eeww, fish snuff!” and didn’t try it. But one day, feeling bold, I decided to snuff some; and it was absolutely wonderful in the nose. I have to look at my emails and see what that snuff was, but it is amazing.

wilsons vanilla has a terrible tin aroma wonderfull nose smell however. To a less extent toque vanilla has a not so nice tin aroma.