I’ll start this by saying I know this statement is rather premature! Before I quit the coffin nails, I would easily smoke 20+ RYO cigs in a day, plus 3ml of vape juice and several pinches of snuff. If I was on the cigs alone, I’d easily go through 30 to 40 roll ups. When I first quit the smokes a couple of weeks ago, or whenever it was, I hit snuff hard taking several pinches every hour so my nose was always streaming and got sore from blowing. I consumed at least double the usual amount of vape, plus took up the pipe again all to keep the cigarette demons at bay. At times, even this was a struggle. Today, and it’s now 4pm, I have so far consumed no more than 1.5ml of vape fluid, approx 10 or so pinches of snuff, and no pipe. This hasn’t been through intentionally cutting back or witholding, just doing what I felt comfortable with. I seemed to have levelled off naturally. Now every pinch of snuff seems to count and gives me a noticable lift, even those often declared weak in nicotine such as WoS Chocolate Orange or Irish Coffee. I can feel the cravings welling up inside me as I type this, but now I have the insight to know that craving is a lie. What my body actually wants is my evening meal and some fluids. I know this false craving will ebb away when those needs have been met. Will I level off further? Who knows! Tomorrow is another day, and I may need more support than I had today, or I may need less. I intend to keep the pipe as an occasional hobby, even when the urge to cigs has left me completely (or as completely as it ever will), and I don’t intend to give up the snuff, but it will interesting to see what becomes the natural rhythm of consumption. Maybe I can let the vape go soon, though I dare say I’ll hang on to the kit in case there’s a resurgent wave of cravings for the death sticks. As I said earlier, the day is not out, and who knows what the sunrise will bring tomorrow. In the meantime, there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon of a new found freedom. A return to the days of using tobacco because I choose to, not merely because I am a slave to it’s clutches.

Great thread! I agree with what you said, at some point even those snuffs said to be low nicotine satisfy as well! And even if you relapse once in a while, it isn’t ac cigarette every once in a while that causes harm, it’s a steady stream of them all day every day for decades. So for everyone that fails don’t say “oh well I tried.” Just hop right back up on the snuff wagon once that cigarette leaves you.

50ft_trad thanks for your insight! I think this could really help a lot of us working through the cigarette transition and to figure what addiction,cravings-, and habits really are

Thanks guys. I found sussing out the false cravings to be a huge leap in the right direction. Several times when I was in the final throws of smoking did I get cravings and succumb to them. It was only after I finished the cigarette that I realised I was hungry, or thirsty, or tired, or whatever and the craving was masking it. It was only when the craving was dealt with that the true need was revealed. It’s almost like you need to take each craving like a baby crying, it’s just the start of a guessing game to figure out what’s actually needed. The trick is to believe that it is the need for nicotine only as a final option. First port of call is hydration. Thirst often presents as hunger too, as people on diets are often advised. What really surprised me was the “quit zits”. I didn’t even know they were a phenomenon. Neither did I expect a couple of days of intensive itching as if my clothes and bedsheets had been dusted with itching powder. I thought I was just breaking the behavioural pattern at this stage, but despite using snuff, pipe and vape, there was obviously other toxins that my body was trying to dispose of. There’s a lot more happening than you expect.

Less is more. addiction dose have it’s triggers. when I quit well I never quit ,just not a slave to the cigarettes. Caffeine and nicotine complement each other. I had to switch from coffee to tea and then I went herbal with my choice of beverage and my smoke. (Mullein,Coltsfood & Lobelia) These herbs helped. 

 I still craved the act of smoking so I picked up the pipe. It was a hard transition I tried Aro’s at first and the toppings scorched my tongue. Then I switched to English blends they burn cool but i got use to them and starting inhaling. So I switched again to stronger tobaccos and stopped inhaling smoke. Now I have control I will have a cigarette once a month, don’t even finish it and remember why I quit.

 I limit my intake of tobacco products more recently.  But they do have their therapeutic qualities so I employ them with restraint. When i feel like smoking a pipe I may have a snack instead. I still like a Pipe with a cup of strong black coffee ,I’ll use a snus portion once a day and a pris of loose. And I use snuff when ever I remember. The frequency has slowed down and I enjoy it that much more. I enjoy consuming tobacco I just don’t let it consume me. Best of luck to all you to be x-cigarette slaves it can be achieved.           

@50ft_trad
Very well written post.  I use everything imaginable in the way of tobacco/nicotine (except for pharmaceutical nicotine replacement), and I still find myself craving cigarettes.  I can vape, snuff, snus, smoke a pipe, til the room is spinning, and sometimes I still feel like I’m missing something from the old death sticks.  I’m trying to figure out what it is.  The closest I’ve yet come to actual cigarette satisfaction from something other than a cigarette is smoking Five Brothers tobacco in my pipe, but that stuff might as well be cigarette tobacco.  And if I’m inhaling the pipe smoke, which I tend to do with cigarette-like pipe tobacco, I’m not really any better off than just smoking cigarettes (except for the fact that it’s a lot cheaper).

I hadn’t had a cigarette for months after I started vaping, and also using snuff and snus, and was completely smoke-free (and had actually started to loathe the smell of people’s cigarette smoke), then I made the (as I thought at the time, innocent) mistake of asking a friend for a cigarette about a month ago when we were at the bar, and ever since then, the cigarette fiend has been on my back.  Now I’ve taken to buying a pack of Marlboro Reds every few days - which is still a lot better than three packs a day for 30 years, but it bugs me that I still crave them.

I’m thinking the problem is behavioral/psychological.  For so long, cigarettes were simply part of the rhythm of my life (I could even use them as a timer - 15 minute work break, time for 2 cigarettes).  That’s the thing with cigarettes - there’s a definitive beginning, middle, and end, all in fairly short order.  With a pipe, it could be an hour or more; with snus, it’s just whenever you think the effect has worn off, which is hardly an exact science.  With vape, my 5 ml tank can easily last me two days.  I liken smoking cigarettes vs., say, using snus to listening to a five-minute pop song vs. listening to a symphony.  Strange as this might sound, the act of stubbing out a cigarette tells me, “okay, this is over”, and I think that’s part of my psychological addiction.  Perhaps part of it is my tendency to procrastinate in small periodic doses - I could always say, “okay, I’ll head off to the store, just let me finish my cigarette”.  It’s not as if you can say, “just let me finish my snus”, since there’s no precise moment at which it’s over and done with.

I like the sharp ups and downs of blood level nicotine concentration with cigarettes, which is why snuff is my favorite alternative, as it most closely mimics that.  So I have snuff for approximating the nicotine curve, snus to keep me steady, vape for the hand-to-mouth action and deep inhale/exhale, and a pipe for actually igniting real tobacco.  You’d think with all that, I’d be satisfied.  And yet, for some unknown reason, sometimes cigarettes call out to me like a one true love, even though I know objectively that they’re basically disgusting.

Does anyone think that part of cigarette addiction might actually be an addiction to the symptoms of mild carbon monoxide poisoning?  I know that might sound crazy, but I’m just trying to do a process of elimination here.  I do know that the only time, with all my various tobacco/nicotine uses, that I get the same total “ah, relief at last” feeling that I get from cigarettes is when I inhale a really strong pipe tobacco, which again is not exactly the healthiest habit either.

Maybe part of it is nostalgia?  I still remember looking longingly at the glamorous full-page ads for cigarettes in magazines when I was a teenager.  Oh well, I’m hoping I’ll get this sorted eventually. 

@MarkM It sound like your experience in many ways parallels mine. I think there is definitely some other chemical addition to cigarettes that hasn’t been formally recognised. As mentioned earlier I did go through a few days of a strange detox that affected me dermatologically, even though I was still getting nicotine and other tobacco elements. Whether it’s CO or other substances, I have no idea. The cigarettes certainly added a punctuation to the daily schedule. I have been trying to make the behavioural shift towards snuff taking that role. I have for the most part adjusted to driving without smoking, but have the vape handy in case it’s needed. The biggest association for me is social drinking. Here we can’t smoke at the bar and have to go outside, but as the nicer weather approaches and beer gardens or home gardens (BBQs) become the norm, that is when I would normally chain smoke. I hope this is when the pipe will be the salvation. Psychological associations are a bitch, but awareness is the key to breaking them. Do try to be aware of the false cravings, and when you feel the urge despite your current tobacco consumption, start trying to shift your behaviour/attention towards other things. 1) Hydration. Thirst falsely presents as both cravings and hunger. This is a real biggie, and I might even do a separate post on this. 2) Deep breathing. Cig smoking facilitates this, so it may just be a drop in O2 levels and your mind is programmed to recognise that a cig would make you take a few deep breaths. 3) Hunger. If air and water don’t work, consider fuel. Even a sugary drink may be enough 4) Fatigue. Sleep is surrender. Some of us find it harder to surrender than others, and anyone who has used smoking to keep going that bit longer is prone to this as a false craving. It may also be that you just need a five minute break from whatever you’re doing, and that’s what your body/mind really needs. Have a new “activity” ready to fill that five minute slot. Water cooler moment, pen twiddling, yoyo, breathing exercises, anything. I don’t want to sound like a know-it-all, as I’m still very much in the learning curve myself. These are just some of the things that have come into my awareness since going down this path

@50ft_trad - You don’t sound like a know-it-all by any means.  You sound like someone who has thought very deeply about these issues, and I appreciate your response.  I couldn’t agree more with this whole post.

Two points specifically I would make are: 1) I’m glad you used the word “punctuation” when it comes to cigarettes being part of the rhythm of the day; that’s the word I was looking for but it didn’t come to me; 2) the deep breathing thing can’t be overemphasized.  Part of the relaxation of the cigarette is the deep breathing, so it would be interesting to try deep breathing alone, or in combination with snuff or snus.

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

Thank you @MarkM your comments are really appreciated. I have indeed spent a lot of time thinking about this. Know thy enemy as they say. I wanted to truly understand what the individual challenges are and be best prepared to kick them where it hurts. Some things I already had awareness of, but others were a surprise. Also, due to the nature of the beast, when you are hit with a challenging aspect to aren’t prepared for, you’re not always in the best frame of mind to understand what is really happening and therefore make a pertinent decision about how to deal with it. I have tried to reflect on those moments to be more prepared for the next challenging moment. Hopefully some of what I have said will help someone else to be better prepared for making the transition too, or at least help them understand that things aren’t always what they seem in the midst of a vicious craving.

Today was another tolerable day. Mid morning the angst descended upon me, and I was sure I had ticked all the other boxes, and so succumbed to half a bowl of shag tobacco. That did the trick nicely, and I’ve been quite content with the vape and snuff throughout the rest of the day. There have been a few false cravings which have been staved off with cups of tea, a spicy meal, and later a cherry bakewell bun. Another was while waiting in a queue to be served at the local shop. There was an idiot at the counter who was taking far longer than they needed to with everything, obviously got nothing better to do with their life. Seems frustration/idiocy is another cause of false craving. Still need to conjure up a socially acceptable way of dealing with those moments …

@50ft_trad - I hate waiting in line behind some moron at the grocery store who feels the need to relate their entire life story to the cashier, or to dig through fifty dollars worth of change, or to argue about the price of every item, or decides that check-out time is the ideal time to discipline their trolley full of brats, or acts like it’s the first time they’ve ever used a debit card - especially when my bus is showing up in ten minutes.  Grrrrrrr.

Tonight is the first night of me risking having a few drinks since ditching the cigs three weeks ago. This would normally have doubled or tripled my cigarette consumption rate, and indeed the snuff and vape consumption has gone up instead… but I’m still cigarette free. I’ve got a few beers in, and will probably top it off with a generous single malt whisky or three. If I can get through the night without throwing on a coat and heading out to the all night garage for some rolling tobacco, this will be the first night’s drinking in over 25 years that will be cigarette free. That’s quite a milestone. As such, I genuinely don’t care how much snuff and vape juice I plow through this evening.

@50ft_trad - that’s my point of view exactly.  If it keeps you off cigarettes, I absolutely wouldn’t worry about how much snuff or vape juice you go through.  Go for it.

Please keep us updated.

Mission accomplished! My first night’s drinking without smoking a cigarette in quarter of a century. I woke with a hangover from hell, and the urge for a cigarette this morning was quite strong, but I got through that too. So far today (now 1:15pm) I’ve had two pinches of snuff, and 1ml of vape fluid. So not only can I now do drinking without cigs, but can instantly return to the lower nicotine levels the next day. It’s a good feeling.

@50ft_trad - sounds like you’re doing really well.

So far so good, Mark. There is still a long way to go though, I’m under no delusions about that. Vape may well be the next dependency to break, but for now at least I have achieved harm reduction even if I haven’t achieved full freedom. The ultimate goal is not one of complete abstinence, but of choice instead of need. I feel abstinence through fear of dependence is akin to denial, and is only partial freedom. Full freedom comes through being able to choose if, when, how and how much, and not being controlled by a product or fear of it

@50ft_trad -
re: “Full freedom comes through being able to choose if, when, how and how much, and not being controlled by a product or fear of it.”

Excellent points.  Your post is as a good a summary of the issues involved as I’ve ever read.  Again, thank you.

For no discernible reason, today has been really tough. Snuff and vape consumption is up, and I’ve had two pipe bowls already… and it’s lunchtime. Not letting it beat me though. I have come too far to fail now

I found that the cig cravings will come in waves but will happen less often @50ft_trad. Snus worked best for me during the rough times. Keep at it and good luck!

Thanks for the supportive words @crullers I think one of the triggers might actually be not having used much in the way of coarse snuff for a day or two. I know it sounds odd, but the coarser snuffs give a more prolonged “glow”, whereas the finer snuffs give more of a hit. The rapid cycling rather than a more stable plateau of nic goodness might have triggered the old cravings. I could of course be talking complete bollocks, but that’s the nearest thing I’ve come up with to any form of rationale for the sudden onset.

Coarse snuff and more fluids, seems that’s what was needed. The coarse snuffs do seem to be giving far more relief, not sure if it’s due to slower absorbtion and avoiding a (cigarette like) nic rush, or if it’s more long lasting relief. Seems the finer (standard grind) snuffs had dried my nose out somewhat too, despite me drinking plenty (or so I thought), and the coarser snuff weren’t staying in place. Consumed far more fluids today, and added a little extra salt to my diet too. Nose is back to functional, shakes have gone, and another reminder that the cravings aren’t always what they seem.

Busy day yesterday. I was woken by my neighbour’s 7 year old daughter knocking insistently on the door. Their car had been broken into. They are English speaking, but it’s not their first language, so I dealt with the police and neighbours for them. I also found, fetched, and fitted a replacement side window for them from a local scrapyard. With the other things I already had of my own to deal with, it turned out to be quite a busy and challenging day. Despite that, vape and snuff saw me through fine, and not in excessive quantities either. I did reward myself with a bowl of Ennerdale Flake at some point during the day, but that was choice and not need, which is how I want it to be. One bowl, about 3ml of vape all day, and several pinches of snuff, which again was more want than need I’m very happy with that at this stage. Moving towards just snuff with the occasional pipe bowl is certainly looking achievable and sustainable

Read with interest all the posts…i am finally to one month of no “real smoking:” just nasal snuff and vaping at times. Unlike some of the posters here I was never able to smoke the pipe moderately, it always became a slippery slope. I love pipes, i think my downfall was being a pack a day cig smoker for several years…even when i gave that up pipes were never the same, i smoked them too quickly. I lament the fact that  i dare not touch one of my lovely pipes, it was hard to get where i am.

I have a theory abt smoking: i think the addiction has 3 parts [numbers one and two everyone knows] first the nic, second all the psychological hand motion stuff,  and third for me is the umami [sp?] or mouth feel of the hot smoke which i still miss…

My far and beyond fav snuff is Toque natural toast, followed by W&H USA, lime USA and rose [all toque] i will have to try some other brands soon

@marco Congratulations! I’m just about to hit the one month mark myself. <:-P I know exactly what you mean about the pipe. The lure is definitely there, and I am having to exercise restraint at times and not allow myself to make too much of a habit out of it. Like you, I’ve not found it an easy journey either. I was 30+ roll ups per day. From my journey, I would say the chemical addiction is way more then just nicotine. I bombarded myself with nicotine replacement during the transition, but I still had horrendous cravings at times. The utterly debilitating intensity of the withdrawals during the darkest moments (which seemed to last hours) have actually been a motivator to help me quit, by which I mean I felt driven to never get into a position where I feel so utterly chemically dependent ever again.

This afternoon I packed a pipe, did the faux lights, tamped and fired her up proper. I took a few puffs, and after about a minute, decided I didn’t want it. I laid the pipe down and went about my day. The pipe is still there where I left it. I’ve been merrily snuffing instead. This evening I’ve been sat with my neighbour, enjoying a bottle of red wine between us. She was smoking, and not once did I have the urge to smoke, even though she did offer me a cig. I was perfectly happy with the vape, and didn’t need that as much as I expected either. Today was the most comfortable I’ve been as an ex cigarette smoker since I quit a month ago. It’s a very liberating and rewarding feeling.

Well done @50ft_trad !

Many thanks @Omgroma

I’ll also say that I’m very glad to have taken up snuff a few years ago, and that this is part of the lifestyle since ditching the death sticks. Getting your sense of smell back isn’t always a good thing, and having the ability to dose up your snout with something more pleasant is most welcome

@50ft_trad - re: “Getting your sense of smell back isn’t always a good thing, and having the ability to dose up your snout with something more pleasant is most welcome”

I can only imagine that one reason for the early popularity of snuff was to cover up the horrendous smells of 17th and 18th century urban centres.

Yeah, at least we’re not hurling our turds out of the window these days. When I had the canal boat, emptying the cassette toilet into the elsan was a task that would challenge even F&T Bordeaux’s masking ability :-"

@50ft_trad - just out of curiosity, what was the purpose of the canal boat?  Recreational or occupational?

Recreation. I did plan to live on it eventually, but that proved impractical for me. Maybe something to reconsider at retirement

I’ve been out and about in shorts today, with pocket space for one snuffbox and nothing else (in terms of tobacco/nicotine). No vape, no pipe. I coped comfortably, and when I did take a pinch it was because I wanted, not needed. In fact there were a couple of times when the cravings started to build, but I just faced them down, as I outright refused to “reward” a craving with a pinch. I felt free. I spent time with my brother and niece, visited my parents, two 10 mile drives, spent time out in the sun … lots of things I haven’t done before as an ex-smoker. I’m now genuinely starting to feel like I have won the war on cigarettes. It feels good! I picked up the vape when I got home, but to be honest I now feel ready to quit that when I run out of juice. It’s not been an easy journey so far, and I don’t feel any difference health wise yet, but I do feel liberated which was one of the main things I was striving for. There have been situations I have been avoiding for fear of struggling with cravings, or becoming unpleasant towards others, and haven’t really been admitting this to myself, never mind anyone else. Not any more. I am now ready to face the world with or without the support mechanisms, and just enjoy a pinch of snuff or a pipe bowl on my terms when the moment suits. I’m under no illusion that all the challenges are now 100% behind me, but I have proved to myself I can get through. It’s not just willpower, it’s pride, understanding, patience, honesty, and focussing on where you’re going, not where you are or where you’ve been. It’s educational too, and I couldn’t have done it without taking the time to listen to my body and to learn from what it was telling me. Thanks for sharing the little journey with me, in this thread and others. Hopefully maybe something in my constant ramblings will help inspire someone else to break free, or even just understand the battle a little better, so they too can enjoy that sweet sense of victory and freedom. Thanks again for listening

Woah! First time of smoking brown pigtail since this whole levelling off started. Smoked 1/3 of a bowl, had to put it aside, and go for a nice lie down. @-)

@50ft_trad - I’ve read that in small doses nicotine is a stimulant, and in large doses is a relaxant.  I hope you enjoyed your nap!  Keep the updates coming - they’re very interesting.

Thanks @MarkM Looks like tolerance and dependence are quite definitely linked. I’d have easily gone half to 2/3 of that bowl in the past, and probably nailed it if I’d been drinking too. Since needing nicotine less, it’s far more noticeable when I do get it. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that the finer, or should I say more standard grinds (think WoS and Toque snuffs) weren’t that satisfying in the past, but I get a noticeable lift now. I suppose that had I been paying attention to that, I wouldn’t have attempted a cob of pigtail, and would maybe have just had a Mini Legend cob, or fired up the Baby Wellbent. Both of which have considerably smaller bowls. The cigarettes have gone, but the lessons continue

@50ft_trad - alcohol and nicotine definitely seem to play off each other.  When I drink, my nicotine tolerance, and consumption, goes way up.  Once I get hammered, I can pound down bowl after bowl of Five Brothers and dose after dose of strong snuff and hardly even notice it . . . until the next morning.  Nicotine hangovers are not fun.

Yeah, I’ve had my fair share of those. I’ve had to cut the nightly snuff binges down for that reason. I was getting the hangover without the party #-o

I had a minor little craving session last night, but surprisingly not for cigarettes. I had been next door to check my friend’s house for mail whilst he’s away at his Father’s, and called him to talk him through what had arrived. I inadvertently left my vaping stick on the worktop in the kitchen when I left and locked up. A couple of hours later, I was wearing out the carpets as I did laps round the house (my house) trying to figure out where the hell I’d put it. I’d been pinching snuff for those couple of hours, but right at that moment I wanted the vape. It became quite apparent that the dependence and addiction hasn’t gone, merely shifted, albeit drastically reduced from what it was a couple of months before. I still have a decent amount of vape juice left and so am not in danger of running out just yet, but need to start planning to move to the next stage and kick the vape. I will be weaning onto the ye olde ciglike (cartomiser type) devices before giving it up altogether, but I do have one question which I cannot decide upon myself. Snus! I have got 4 rolls of Thunder Extra Strong and 1 roll of Thunder Ultra in the freezer. I was saving these in case I found myself in a position where I couldn’t vape, snuff, or toot on a bowl while battling the cigarette cravings. That battle is now over as far as I’m concerned, and I only used one of the Ultra portions. Will this snus be useful to me in kicking the vape, or is the dependence on snus likely to be stronger? In other words, will snus be an aid to moving one step further towards freedom, or will it be a step backwards and cause more problems than it solves?

I wonder if the sudden craving for your vape was the habit aspect of cigarettes coming back to haunt you more than anything, as it is so close to smoking a cigarette. The snus should see you through that, at least that’s what worked for me. In fact it took a couple of years starting with snus then snus + snuff before I felt comfortable enough to explore pipe. I’ve never tried vaping and don’t see the point, to be honest.

My first and overarching thought is that it depends on what you mean by “freedom”.  Freedom from cigarettes?  Freedom from nicotine?  Freedom from addiction in general?  Why do you want to kick the vape?  Are you okay with continuing to use snuff indefinitely?  Etc.

Thunder Extra Strong is one kickass snus (I can only tolerate it for about 10-15 minutes at most), and it’s got nicotine by the bucketful, so you’re certainly not getting away from nicotine by using it.  It almost acts as a deterrent - one portion of Thunder, and you’re not likely to be able to stomach the idea of a cigarette for a while.  And from what I understand, the health risks of snus are practically non-existent compared to cigarettes.

Please clarify what you mean by freedom, and I’ll try to give a more useful answer.

@crullers Good point, and very possible. Once I had remembered where I’d actually put it, and gone back next door to retrieve it, I was fine after three or four drags on it. The craving and relieve were both very similar, and that’s why I don’t want to be on vape any longer than necessary. @MarkM To me, the freedom I am looking for is from the dependence (chemical and behavioural) from nicotine, carried over from 25 years of cigarette smoking. I don’t find snuff or pipe to be habit forming at this stage, and plan to keep it that way so I can continue to enjoy tobacco, but on my terms - not just being a slave to the need. Freedom essentially being choice. I fully recognise I am still a nicotine addict, but I can now choose when to have a bowl, and when to take a pinch, but am conscious I still “lean” on the vape more than I am comfortable with. I used it as a quit aid, not a permanent replacement, and behaviourally it is very similar to cigarette smoking. What I don’t know is whether snus will get me as hooked, or will help me break the cigarette action of vaping altogether whilst having the feeling of choice like I do with pipe and snuff. I hope that is clearer.

Snuff and Snus are probably the least “cirgarette like” way to use nicotine.

I tried a vape a few winters ago as a pipe and cigar replacement.  I live at 2500 meters, and work at 3000 meters.  During the worst of the winter it can get to -30F (-34.4C).  Much too cold for me to sit outside for an hour plus.  The vape was giving me cigarette cravings that I hadn’t had in twelve or thirteen years.  So I got rid of the vape quickly.

I’ve used snuff to get through the winter for a few years now, and tried snus this this last winter.  The snus is nice, but I really love the snuff… so much so that now that it is summer I’m using snuff daily and going weeks without a cigar or a pipe.

Sorry, just to clarify, are you saying you got dependent on the snus, or that you ditched the snus so that you didn’t? I got a little confused on your final line. Edit: it’s OK, I get it now. I has totally misread the last paragraph. Sorry for the confusion.

@50ft_trad - The use of snus bears no relationship habit-wise to the use of cigarettes, cigars, pipe, snuff, or vape.  You just pop it in there and let it do its job for however long you want.  The manual habit is essentially non-existent.  In my experience, the use of snus is no more addictive from a behavioral point of view than the use of shampoo or hand lotion.  Just use it when you want it.

Yeah, I fully get the mechanical differences and the removal of all the behavioural aspects. My concern is whether, or should I say, how habit forming/addictive it is overall (not just confined to behavioural aspects) in other people’s experience. People use vape to give up smoking, and they also use snus to give up smoking. However, I’ve never heard of someone using snus to give up vaping… or vice versa for that matter. Having vaped on and off (alongside the cigs) for a couple of years, I know the level of dependence that can result (and has done). What I don’t know is what level of dependence snus exacts on it’s users in comparison, as I’ve never used it with any frequency. If it’s half as addictive as vape, it would be worth trying, if it’s twice as addictive, it would be a very risky move and I’d be better off chucking it and coming up with a better plan. I don’t think I’m explaining myself well at the moment. It’s been a long day, and I’m barely making sense to myself right now :P… or the answer might have already been given to me but I’m not spotting it because I’m not firing on all cylinders this evening … Simple version - if someone is/has been a habitual/regular user of snus, and a habitual/regular user of vape, which is the harder habit to kick and by how much?

@50ft_trad - re: vape vs. snus: it depends.  If your addiction is primarily to tobacco alkaloids, then snus is harder to give up.  If your addiction is primarily to the physical habit itself, then probably vape is harder to give up.  There’s no “one-size-fits-all” solution.

Makes sense completely. Thanks for the input Mark