On www.cancer.org I found this article http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED\_10\_13X\_Quitting\_Smokeless\_Tobacco.asp I was particularly offended by the below statement: “There is no sound evidence that smokeless tobacco products can actually help smokers quit. Because these products contain tobacco, they are not required to be tested to be sure they meet Food and Drug Administration (FDA) standards. This is not the case with proven treatments for tobacco addiction, such as nicotine replacement products, antidepressants, nicotine receptor blockers, and behavioral therapies. These standard treatments have been tested at length and proven to be effective ways to help people quit smoking.” It doesn’t take a Ph.D in Philosophy to figure out that this is the usual propaganda for the chemical nicotine alternatives industry! There is no evidence whatsoever that their chemical products are more “proven”, than snuff, as being effective in helping people quit smoking, and I personally know several people who having quit smoking using chemical alternatives, still missed tobacco, and never got rid of the urge for tobacco, and consequently relapsed into smoking. Even after years using chemical alternatives. A survey from Sweden (can’t find the link now!) shows that almost no ex-smokers having switched to snus, relapse into smoking again. I would definitely contest the cancer.org postulate - I see a cold, greedy business wanting to shove their disgusting chemical alternatives down our throats, having absolutely no problems with not telling the truth about smokeless tobacco!!
I agree. I hardly know anyone who has quit smoking with the chemicals. Or for that matter the anti-depressants. Many tobacco researchers who don’t work for some company that is a major pharm or tobacco company almost always recomend smokeless tobacco as being a hell of a lot safer then smoking.
I think snuffster explained it beautifully in another thread. There’s not only the nicotine replacement aspect, which the chemicals may address, but also the things smokers do like handling the cigarettes etc. as part of the habit. They have to learn to use snuff and get the same enjoyment fiddling with the tins, taking a pinch, etc. I didn’t smoke cigarrettes but I do enjoy fiddling with snuff tins.
I actually had some success with NRT’s about 11 years ago. I had promised myself to quit at 30 and was able to do so with the help of mega dosing nicorette gum and use of The Patch. It took about 5x the recommended dosage of gum and use of The Patch in conjunction at first. I didn’t smoke for 7 years but never was able to quit the gum. At about double what smoking costs, I can see why they’re pushing these products, that I might add offer very little if any pleasure. In the end, I just couldn’t condone continuing to pay that sort of money. If anything my nicotine addiction had increased using these products. Funny how the doctor advised me that mega dosing nicotine is OK at first; “anythings better than smoking”. Then these people will point to snuff and snus and say the nicotine is a danger after all (but not their nicotine?). These products are just way too expensive to be taken seriously by most people anyways.
I’ve found that tobacco actually makes me less depressed. I can’t remember where, but I remember reading about research that indicated nicotine had significant anti-depressant effects. I’m pretty sure it improves my memory as well.
Yes! The better question is…Snuff instead of antidepressants? I use both so I can’t say but I digress tobacco is a VERY useful mood enhancer.
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Snus and dip are completely different in nicotine delivery! In fact very different in their entirety.
snus seems to take longer last longer and to me seems slightly stronger. As far as nico levels and absorbtion it reminds me of what it would be like to smoke a genticly modified extra nicotine pipe tobacco. (no idea if that makes sense to you, I know it does to someone)
Hmm, I’ve yet to find a snus comparable in nicotine as Cope snuff and I’ve tried em all except the new XX 15mg’ers. I would say Skruf is fairly close, but Cope just gives me the best of any oral tobacco, plug included. Curiously, none of the other Copes seem very strong either, just the original, I would guess it’s the same tobacco. :?
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O.k. Here is my opinion as a snus user who has only tried dip a few times. Comparing snus to dip. Snus is slower in nic delivery. Being put in the upper lip it does not mix with as much saliva. Therefore It does not create a spit to be extricated. So surface exposure in the mouth is somewhat less. Also the processing of the snus plus the additives make for a more alkaline product which in fact be eaten. Making for spitting unnecessary. Ounce for ounce the same nic can be derived. However the finer cut of the snus plus gravity will cause a “falling” when a certain viscosity is reached. This falling of the pinch causing mud mouth will usually end the session of use. Methods used in prolonging the fall such as “baking” styles or limiting toying, sucking,and movement including talking do add longevity to the pinch. Another trick is to keep the mouth open to allow for a drying air flow to keep the integrity of the pris (baked pinch). In contrast dip can be sucked dry and left in or let sit at a controlled moisture level. As for flavors it seems the differences are a salty, spicy, bitter sweet, fruit, herbal tobacco to a sweet, syrupy, minty, sugary tobacco. Snus is a fresh product needing controlled cool temperatures to stay fresh as well.
Thanks guys for the inputs - I don’t use anti-depressives, and to be honest am a little shocked that such drugs would be prescribed for quitting smoking! That’s certainly not the policy here in my country - but perhaps there is some sense to it - if one’s smoking is stress-related? I think it’s a little scary how many people are on mood-altering drugs in our days. The figures provided by Roderick on the percentages of who quits how are very very interesting indeed!! Shows exactly what I was thinking - that the chemical alternatives (read: nicotine gum/patches) don’t work!
Im that rare thing - a UK dip and chew user, Oral tobacco is definately stronger but less convenient, I think that in itself would help to make the respective sucess rates fairly equal. Standard NRT, IMHO, doesn’t work because it only replaces nicotine and there is a lot more to being addicted to cigarettes than the nicotine; ritual, enjoyment, flavour and also, to a greater or lesser extent, the paraphanalia and luxury element. Snuff can give all of those things. Standard NRT didn’t touch my smoking habit, but I kicked it with snuff in a few weeks for the most part, thanks to Toque.
As I’ve said before I didn’t even really try to stop smoking cigarettes it just happened that I really found myself not enjoying them and wanting snus or snuff.
I too just did not want cigarettes any more and quit buying them so I’m not even tempted. I had gotten down to 1/2 of one in the morning and the rest before bed. One day I realized I had not had one in a few days and I said why bother even buying them. I used the patches and gum they were hell as far as i’m concerned. As for the antidepressants the one they gave me, zyban, was a level of hell I have never experienced from a mood altering substance. I would not ever voluntarily take an antidepressant again. My advice is DON’T TAKE THEM THEY WILL MESS YOU UP!!!
I did not know this at the time but most SRIs have PCP or a derivative of it as the base. If I had known that I never would have taken it.
I find it strange that people will self medicate with drugs and alcohol yet deny themselves medication that is actually prescribed for them.
In Danmark it’s becoming increasingly difficult to obtain prescriptions for anti-depressants, unless you are in some therapeutic treatment. There are definitely cases, in which AD meds are necessary for certain people to function properly, but the over-medication for any little obstacle met with in life, is not a healthy option. Mourning, as well as various set-backs in life, are not necessarily all a pathological state! Some say that allowing yourself the whole range of emotions in life, is actually more healthy than trying to avoid these. I believe this to be true. Of course with the exception of those who actually suffer from a psychological disorder.