I was doing some research and found this letter. Maybe this is why Swisher isn’t growing in the snuff world http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.tobacco.snuff/9600

Interesting, but it’s not going to stop me from sniffing American Scotches, regardless of their intent.

Just shows they don’t know much about the history of their own products

That was a bunch of mambo jambo to avoid answering. Or maybe he didn’t understand the question. He did have to talk to an employee that had seen snuff.And the government make them put warning labels on. Where does it say they don’t make snuff?

Also that was from 2006, kind of before the internet snuff boom. Maybe they’ve wised up since then.

The point that he was making is that Swishers snuff were designed for oral use and he had to ask someone to even understand what nasal snuff was. It does start to answer the question on why they haven’t created a new product in decades or any other american scotch company for that matter. Maybe someone should start sending samples of nasal snuff to them so they will wake up (laughing but true)

I sent them a email asking if they still believe that dry snuff is for oral use only. I also asked what dry snuffs do they still produce and why they haven’t picked up on the nasal snuff market. Who knows

One thing to keep in mind. Toque has to put the government mandated warnings for oral tobacco on their tins that are sold in the US. I think snuff in the US was initially used like in Europe. Over time the method of taking it changed in the US.

@Slide but the point is it might be gradually changing back, and maybe Swisher should know about it. I don’t have much hope though, they’re a cigar company. They’re only acquired the Helme line and I think they kind of regard it as an unloved stepchild.

@Xander Actually last November they brought up in the ranks a guy who is big on figuring out how to turn things around. I believe I read somewhere that he is keen on the smokeless tobacco portion of the business. I still think they are going to drop some of the products to what is on their site but I hope I am wrong

This is fascinating

@Xander I understand that. I was merely stating I do not believe when snuff was first manufactured in the USA it was designed for oral use. I believe the use changed over time. And to the fact that the reply from Swisher may be influenced, other than from a lack of knowledge, by the warning labels the FDA requires them to put on the product. Mr Nelson may believe the FDA…not sure about that one though… Kudos to MattheFox for trying got educate them. :))

@Slide there are several articles on this site about the history of american dry snuff. I remember one that said they started off using it as a nasal snuff, then folks were kind of dipping a toothpick sized twig in it & placing it in their mouth. That was just before they started making dip or chew. I will see if I can locate it

Here it is. The timeline takes a little while to load. Look at the 1700’s http://www.americansnuff.com/Timeline.aspx

Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks, money talks!

@Slide there are several articles on this site about the history of american dry snuff. I remember one that said they started off using it as a nasal snuff, then folks were kind of dipping a toothpick sized twig in it & placing it in their mouth. That was just before they started making dip or chew. I will see if I can locate it

Interesting. Oral use started earlier than I thought.

To comment on the same thread: I went into my local Smoker Friendly and saw they carried Silver dollar snuff. I asked the store owner if she could get any of the new Toque USA, and told her i’ve ordered it from England and it would nice to get it here. She gave me a really dirty look and said that the only person who used that stuff(SD) was a guy who “dumped it into his mouth”. I then proceeded to give her a mini lecture on the history of snuff taking. She folded he arms over her chest and just said, " Do you really think I give a damn about this crap?" I replied that since this was supposed to be a tobacco store she kind of owed it to her customers to learn about their tastes( I’m a former teacher) and what they wanted. She just said “nobody buys it, so I ain’t gonna order it.” Well, she instantly lost me as a customer. I am sure it doesn’t matter to her because every time I went into the store, there were always a lot of hoodie clad 20 somethings smoking cheap, shitty cigarrettes. The kind I never would smoke, even in my youth. ( I hand rolled Golden Virginia, or Three Castles from England)!! So, to tie this in with your comment about the Swisher Executive…Most Americans are really ignorant about snuff, they think its dip, and thats about it. I took a pinch of SD Spearmint while I was talking to this creature, and she just couldn’t f-ing believe what I was doing…And to boot, she really thought it was disgusting(but so does my gf!) Just my thoughts…

Kind of funny how people who use the foulest form of tobacco (cheap-o cigs), would find snuffing disgusting. Oddly enough, my wife doesn’t find it disgusting at all. She’s just glad I quit smoking the cigs.

@Slide I have been using American scotches for 3 months now and when I first carried them to work I was amazed by how many people said their parents or grandparents used snuff but they wondered why I was putting it in my nose. Thats when I started researching it. @mrmanos It is a sad state for good commerce when a business owner doesn’t see the value of a customer over personal opinion of a product. I get my scotches from our local Food Lion and it has been the opposite. I was in there yesterday and they have restocked the snuff shelf. I believe they are going to need to expand it. They also expanded the other smokeless tobacco display and add some good smoking tobacco’s. I believe someone has the insight know cigarettes prices are making folks try new things and want to make happy customers

I am with you @Faust my wife just spent $60.00 in extracts for my experiments because she loves the fact that I am no longer smoking in the house and only a small amount.

My wife just bought one of these so she can browse through my collection more easily to find something new to try: http://www.harborfreight.com/eight-drawer-wood-tool-chest-94538.html Gotta love 'er…

nice chest but it is a jewelery chest NOT a tool chest. Never in my life have I seen a tool box with felt lining, if any of my tool boxes had a felt lining it would get destroyed in less than a day.

It is a cheap copy of a Gestner tool box, used by machinists for storing precision measurement items like calipers, gauge blocks, dial gauges, and small endmills etc. Not something a carpenter or auto mechanic would likely need.

Very nice @Mouse, I have a couple of steel ones that are almost the same layout. It is a machinists box for sure

@MattheFox - growing up in the South I always saw people dipping snuffs. But I also knew originally dry snuff was sniffed. Interesting timeline. I wonder what caused the shift from nasal to oral use…

when I first started taking snuff, my wife told me that her grandmother and others in the family had used it. She couldn’t remember if it was used nasally or orally though.

@Slide (IMO) I believe it is a classic case of “Class Separation” Nasal snuff started being used by Aristocrats (wigs) and regular folks went to oral. If you were a working class, I doubt that you had time to clean your hands for a nice enjoyable pinch but it is easy to enjoy a dip and just spit. You would probably be considered snooty back then (Hoping I didn’t offend anyone)

I think I’am going to start carrying around a picture of a disected smokers lung and when a smoker says snuff is gross I’am going to show them the lung pic. For some reason it’s only smokers that think snuff is gross. Yeah sometimes I think people deserve to suffer for being willfully stupid. I have in the past said yeah you know you’re right it is way more disgusting then smelling like shit too the degree you can tell when a smokers walked in the room, cause that’s not gross at all.

actualy @MattheFox that probably explains why the “Ruling Class” (they may look like quotation marks but they’re really derision marks) pinched and the working class used the back of the hand method.

Doesn’t surprise me at all that our relatives put it in their mouths instead of their noses. Tell us to drive 55 and we’ll go 85. Sideways while texting. Also, I too have been surprised by the amount of comments I get from friends who tell me about their grandparents and snuff. And on a side note, Been in contact with my Swisher regional manager. He says snuff is a southern thing. He will get me in touch with the one distributer anywhere near me and I would probably have to purchase in quantity. Seems that’s all he can do in this region. He has been helpful and has responded earnestly to my inquires. And with enthusiasm. So I can’t fault the company. Guess they can’t help if no one wants it? I did send him a link to this site/thread.

@Hamlet Maybe you can ask him what snuffs are still in production.

To comment on the same thread: I went into my local Smoker Friendly… I asked the store owner if she could get any of the new Toque USA… She gave me a really dirty look… She folded he arms over her chest and just said, " Do you really think I give a damn about this crap?"

Maybe they should rename it Snuff Unfriendly.

Kind of funny how people who use the foulest form of tobacco (cheap-o cigs), would find snuffing disgusting.

I think they put something in the cigs that causes that reaction.

=))

For a company that doesn’t make snuff, Navy Sweet is some beautiful stuff.

@bipolarbear1968 The article is about the claim that their snuff is designed for oral use not nasal use. I love Swisher snuffs and will always use them nasally rather than orally

Not all of the old-timers used scotches orally. This poster’s grandmother used to use Garrett snuff nasally: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/WVHARDY/2012-09/1348362908 I’ve tried contacting Swisher to find out if they’ve stopped making certain snuffs–no response.

I haven’t heard back from them either. I might call them next week if I don’t get a response by Friday. Great article

Patrick M. Dummer Region Manager Swisher International Inc. 904-412-7599 Cell 507-228-8739 Fax pdummer@swisher.com

@Hamlet: that’s the guy I e-mailed to find out which snuffs were still in production. No response.

@Hamlet: that’s the guy I e-mailed to find out which snuffs were still in production. No response.

Hmmm. I have an email response from him and he took my call personally first try. I called the end of last week and he was at some industry trade show. Maybe that’s why? Try his number, nothing to loose.

@Hamlet I am going to try his cell a couple times tomorrow and see if I can get a list of what they still produce. If Lorillard is on a drop list, I will start storing it @Mike_B I used the website for my questions and like you, no response as yet

@MattheFox: I’m particularly curious if they still make maccoboy, checkerberry, starr and three thistle (as they’re the ones I like the best but they’re very difficult to find).

@Mike_B Mistersnuff.com sells all those except maccoboy, i dont know if its any help.

I left him my cell # and asked what dry snuff are still in production. Hope he leave me a message. I also just sent him a text

I just got this email this morning & copy & pasted it below. Here is the proof that they designed the snuff for oral use but now say that it can be used as nasal snuff as well. Also the list of dry snuff that they still produce. I am going to buy up as much Lorillard as possible since it is not on the list They also use the word (some) but that is bebause they produce snuff for other companies as well. Enjoy: Mr. Leishear, Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our dry snuff. We have always regarded our customers as our greatest asset and make every effort to provide them with the finest tobacco products money can buy. In answer to your question about the use of dry snuff, we market it for oral use, but it certainly can be used as a nasal snuff as well. It is completely up to the consumer as to how you wish to enjoy our tobacco. The following is a list of some of the dry snuff that we produce. We will be sending you some coupons so that you may try some of our different brands. Thank you for your interest. We are pleased to have you as a customer and hope you continue to enjoy our products! Buttercup Dixie Sweet Honey Bee Navy Sweet Railroad Mills Sweet Society Strawberry Tops Sweet Tops Mild Wild Cherry Checkerberry Navy Plain Square Superior Kindest Regards, Consumer Relations Swisher International, Inc.

Well technically it says they market it for oral use, which is absolutely correct. However, the “design” was made before the oldest guy at the company’s great-great grandmother was born. Sure the sweeten ones were added later, some as late as the 30s (which was only 80 years ago #-o ) but they are just simple scotch snuffs at their core. Checkerberry, I think though, was a borrowed concept from the moist snuff department. I’m not sure how old that one is or what its history is.

I have a history portion of them somewhere in here. Wil have to find it. I thought that Checkerberry was one of the last snuffs developed in the 50’s or 60’s

Here it is: http://trademarks.justia.com/715/62/checkerberry-71562040.html

Seems so. 1953. That makes sense, as by then they were clearly trying to tap into the moist snuff market and I don’t think Helme was making anything that bore any resemblance to those before that. Maccoboy of course goes back much earlier, but like scotch was borrowed from nasal tradition.

As I have stated in many threads… I share information that I collect with this community. That is my goal and hope everyone might help collect some information

Michele (Swisher) said that they still make Lorillard sweet (I am happy) She said she didn’t include it in the list because I mentioned that I still use it (assuming that I knew it was still in production) - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/7483/list-of-swisher-snuffs-that-are-still-produced#latest

So Patrick Dummer just sent me a text saying they have all flavors and asked what ones I couldn’t find. I just text’d him back saying that I was looking for information on snuff that may not be produced anymore like: Lorillard (plain) Lorillard (maccoboy) Railroad Mills (plain) Three Thistles (strong) Three Thistles (sweet) Starr I am sure most are still at distribution centers but the question is “Are they still being produced?” Which I don’t know if he would know. I’ll share his response when he sends it. Took him over a day to answer the first text (laughing) I emailed this same information to Michele

OK, I hadn’t heard from Michele so I called Swisher International and They said she didn’t exist at least at their office. So I talked with a gentleman who gave me his email: smfleck@swisher.com When I started asking him about what snuffs are still being produced, he said that they still make some that are not on the website and that if one of your snuffs is not found to ask your store or vendor to see if it is still available. I talked to him for about 15 minutes and got him to say that Lorillard (plain) he couldn’t find information on But they still make a Railroad (maccoboy) Wouldn’t commit to saying that Railroad Mills (plain) was out of production but kept suggesting Square or Superior as a substitute That is the end of this investigation and I the phone number is (904) 353-4311 if anyone else wants to try. He did try to start off by saying the same thing as Mr. Dummer that all were available but that is not the truth.

I’m not seeing Three Thistles Strong on that list, I sure hope they’re still making it its my favourite Scotch!

@n9inchnails I probably could have pushed him for more but dude, it is a long distance phone call and I was thinking of myself. He did say that the catalog did still show one of my favorites Lorillard Sweet. The only thing that I can tell you is if its not on the site, email, text the number for Dummer or call and ask to speak to someone regarding Dry Snuff

I got this from Swisher… $15.00 in coupons for bugging the crap out of them (laughing)

I got an email from Michele and she said that all the snuffs on my list (above) are available except Lorillard (plain) but said a Lorillard Maccoboy was around. I don’t know if it’s just catalog information on stock laying in warehouses or a catalog of stock they intend on producing. I am confused and done. Plan on storing the snuffs I like the best and play the wait and see game with the rest

I’d be amazed if Lorillard Maccoboy is still around. No one on this site has turned it up except on ebay. I think it was discontinued in the 1980s. Its a good snuff, and signifcantly different from Railroad Mills Maccoboy. I’d probably prefer it if I had some fresh.

@MrSnuff: I’m not sure if you’ve been following this thread, but I’m sure there’d be many grateful customers if you were to track down the apparently still available Lorillard Maccoboy snuff.

@Xander I honestly gave you guys everything that they gave me and I somehow feel that I have failed the group. For that I am truly sorry. I would post every piece of the email conversations on this forum but my private information is with them. I would believe that there is product sitting in warehouse’s but that wasn’t my questions. I kept using the term “still producing”

@MrSnuff and maybe a “true” list of what you can get

You haven’t failed the group. I never had high hopes in your self-assigned mission myself, because I am jaded about this company’s attitude and bureaucracy about these products. I’ve been here awhile and learned from what I read. I however never want to discourage anyone especially when they are enthusiastic. New energy often succeeds where old experience won’t bother to look. (Made up quote from me) But you managed to turn up and confirm some information at least, and got yourself some coupons. Not a total loss. Also I think you got a lot farther with them than you would have with either US Smokeless or American Snuff Co. So thanks for your time and effort.

@Matthefox: I totally agree with Xander–you were really persistent and at least got a response from them. We haven’t found the right person at Swisher yet. There is someone at that company who knows what they still produce, but unfortunately we don’t know who that person is.

We need to find the manager of the factory that actually makes the stuff, he HAS to know which ones they’re still making

I went around and around with these folks too,trying to find out if there was any retailer in Pa,NJ,Md,De,Va that carried the full line of swisher snuffs.I got a response from Swisher and they did have the local rep contact me.The last I heard the rep was going to work on it…this was 3/4 weeks ago now. I dont understand why its so hard to get any information from Swisher.After all Im looking for a retailer to purchase their products from.Isnt that the point…for them to sell product? Very aggrevating to say the least,but I do love their snuffs and will continue to buy them anywhere Im able to locate them.

Actually @Xander you could help. I thought about this last night and the catalog thought kept reeling in my head, then I remembered when I rode up to Dover, Del to visit the tobacco stores, I went in one “Red Dot” and the manager started looking in a catalog for the product I was asking about. I am wondering the next time you pass one if you couldn’t ask to look at the dry snuff in the catalog. Might be the best clue around

The problem is that tobacco isn’t bought from Swisher–it’s bought from wholesalers. Swisher can’t sell it directly to retailers, nor will it tell you which wholesalers carry which snuffs. I don’t know why that is, but I presume it’s a legal reason. I encountered the same problem when I was on a quest for English Oval cigarettes. I could have gotten the wholesaler (through a retailer) to order the cigarettes, but the manufacturer required wholesalers (and thus the retailer, thus me) to buy a minimum of 60 cartons or something ridiculous like that. I imagine it’s the same with dry snuff, though that’s pure extrapolation.

I agree with that. I was told that consumers (years ago) used to be able to get a catalog telling them about the products available (not to be bought by them) They should have kept doing it or at least allow you to request one

What we need is the catalog that wholesalers get from Swisher–that would state definitively which snuffs are still in production. I’m guessing that Swisher might be cagey about what’s still in production because they probably have all of the snuffs we’re familiar with sitting in a warehouse somewhere, and if they need more they can make them if there’s enough demand. They have the machinery and supplies to make a fresh batch of Starr, for example, if there were a sudden demand for it (unlikely though that is). They probably get made as needed.

I would imagine that once something is going to be made, it would be in ton(s)

@MattheFox: yeah, so once they need a ton or whatever they can make more. At least, that’s my best guess.

@Mike_B I agree with everyone that said we need a wholesale distributor to get the facts. 1st they carry multiple brands and products 2nd they have the resource to get the facts I feel it is just like cigarettes or cigars in the respect that once they decide to ditch a product, you are the last to know

I will ask next time I am snuff shopping. The stores I hit are usually staffed by teeny-boppers who want you out of their way as soon as possible. So its hit or miss depending on who is working when I go.

@Xander They would probably be the best ones to ask because they wouldn’t care And Thank You

It’ s a southern thing . They dip snuff in the south