Ah, this old chestnut! I have recently found myself in a situation (new job) where I am unable to smoke for long periods of time. For the first time in my life, I have been able to do this without any discomfort whatsoever, and I wanted to make a thread about it to encourage others. I have never even tried to quit smoking, because I never really wanted to badly enough, and I knew that this would doom me to failure. When I give up, I will do it once and do it right. I still don’t really want to give up, but my new work circumstances dictate that I must go for long periods (up to eleven hours) without a cigarette. I jave been an occasional snuffer for some years now, but only did it occasionally for pleasure. Knowing that I would soon have to work for long periods without smoking, I decided to ‘train’ myself to snuff properly so that I could eliminate nicotine craving. Here’s what I did: I took snuff more frequently so that my nose became accustomed to it. I sprayed a small batch of my snuff (Wilsons SP) with saline nasal spray to moisten it more. I simply sprayed the surface of a 10g tin until the surface was damp, closed it and left it overnight. After that, I agitated it by shaking to make the whole tin evenly moist. The above two steps completely eliminated watery eyes and sneezing. The moister snuff is less sneezy to begin with, and the practice snuffing got my nose used to it. I discovered that even though it occasionally still went too far up my nose, it didn’t make me sneeze like it used to. I also started pinching instead of taking the snuff from the back of my hand. Pinching just seems to work better for me- I can control to an extent how much air is allowed into my nostril by putting my fingertips partially into the nostril. This prevents me from snuffing too hard. Anyone familiar with the ‘nasal cycle’ knows that, at any point in the day, one nostril is clearer than the other. I found that snuffing through the more obstructed nostril first is safer. If I snuff through the clearer nostril first, when I snuff through the more obstructed nostril, the snuff that is already in the clearer nostril gets sucked up further, making me sneeze. When pinching, I roll my finger and thumb as I snuff to release the snuff in a precise and controled manner as I sniff. This takes practise, but not very much. Using these techniques, and also the commonly recommended ones (taking a deep breath before snuffing etc) I have managed to perfect my technique to the extent that I can actually get enough snuff into the right part of my nose, so that I absorb enough nicotine to completely eliminate my craving. I don’t intend to stop smoking just yet, but the thought no longer bothers me. If you’ve got more tips for the budding nonsmoker, or the snuff novice, post them here and help them out :o)
Does the moistening method you use seem to affect nicotine absorption?
One very simple answer. American scotches especially Bruton. Get on that wonderful snuff and you’ll not have a single urge for a cig. Of course you’ve got to really *want* to give the deathsticks up.
@dogwalla I honestly don’t know. I never get much of a buzz, just the ‘lift’ that people describe, but it’s enough to take away the craving. The reason I don’t know for sure is that before I developed a better technique and also did the moistening thing, I don’t think I really got enough snuff in the right place comfortably, so it’s hard to compare the two. Afyer moistening, I now find it very easy to snuff correctly and experience the nicotine properly, amd that’s why I was able to go without a cigarette. @OscarWabbit, I’ve never tried Bruton, bit I know its reputation for being high in nicotine. Would it be easy for a beginner to take, or a little harsh for uninitiated nostrils?
Another important point is that I was snuffing twice as often as I would have normally smoked, ie every 30mins rather than every hour. That stopped the craving from happening in the first place.
@doctorbeat I think people overplay the difficulty taking scotches. I used Bruton with ease as a beginner. Just take care at first.
I’ve tried numerous times to quit with snuff and it just didn’t work out. Snus seemed to be the only thing that kept me off the smokes for a while , generous amounts of extra strong snus that is. I relapsed a couple of times due to snus not being readily available. Having to gather up money for a larger order such that paying for shipping doesn’t increase the cost too much made it more convenient to just buy a pack of smokes. Anyway a few weeks ago I got a couple of tins of white portion snus , dropped the smokes and by the time I ran out of snus again I had also increased my snuffing to keep away the cravings. It’s still a bit difficult , especially in the morning when I crave a nice juicy portion but otherwise it’s working fairly well. Hoping my tolerance drops a bit more! I’m pretty hooked on nicotine that’s for sure and snuff has been more than a delivery mechanism so far. I’ve enjoyed it as a stand-alone thing alongside snus and smokes whereas I can’t say the same about snusing and smoking. Snus makes you perceive smokes as worthless: no buzz and crappy taste.
Another tip I have that you’ve just reminded me of Jack, is not to chase the buzz! I don’t get a buzz from cigarettes (except the first one of the day) so I decided not to expect a buzz from the replacement I was using, ie snuff. Since I was careful to take snuff often enough that I didn’t crave in the first place, I never got to the stage where I needed a cigarette. I smoke about one cigarette every hour. I don’t start craving a cigarette until maybe 50 minutes after smoking the last one. I didn’t wait to snuff until I needed nicotine, I topped up frequently so that I never got to that stage in the first place. I guess you could say that I was constantly in the stage that I am usually in 30 minutes after smoking, ie not feeling like I just had a cigarette, but also nowhere near the point of craving. In the past, like when I’ve been on a plane etc, I’ve always waited until I was craving a cigarette, and then tried to rid myself of the craving by taking snuff. That never worked properly, but keeping myself ‘topped up’ worked perfectly. Of course this was easy for me to do, since I was able to smoke before I started work, but I still think that topping up on nicotine before the craving begins is the way to go.
I’ve smoked heavily straight into the lungs for years. five years ago I went to pipes. Snus and snuff make the pipes a couple of bowls daily exotic luxury with no need to inhale those nasty tars and gasses at all. It turns out that I love tobacco in just about every form. Haven’t tried nicotine pastels though - sound nasty to me.
Yeah I bet they’re horrible. I tried gum (not to give up, just for the times I couldn’t smoke) and I found it horrible. It gave me terrible heartburn, and a condition that my doctor later told me is called ‘globus’, which is the feeling that you constantly have a lump in your throat. Sounds like it wouldn’t be a big deal, but it gets old very quickly, especially when lying down. I imagine the pastilles would do the same thing to me.
I don’t know if I’ll ever get entirely off the smokes. I like to clean my sinuses right before I shower at night, so if I want some N right before bed I have a cig. I just don’t want to fill the sinuses I just cleaned out. It’s the same reason I have my evening snack before I brush my teeth. I don’t want bits lingering around in there all night. I also really like smoking when I head out to a bar. I only go once every month or two, so I don’t see that as a terribly big deal.
Snuff helps as …"well read this " We also know that smoking (and drinking/drug taking) will deplete serotonin production levels in the brain. Serotonin is a major neurotransmitter in the brain. When our serotonin levels are balanced we feel happy and contented. When serotonin is low we will tend towards depressed or anxious states of mind. It is believed that smoking cigarettes can deplete our serotonin production levels by as much as 50%. What compounds this problem is that our brains will accept the chemicals in a cigarette as a serotonin substitute on the basis that any chemical response is better than no chemical response at all. So, in the absence of adequate serotonin production, the brain will actually promote the desire for cigarettes in an effort to stimulate the chemical response pattern which it might normally find from balanced serotonin levels. In effect, the more we smoke, the more the subconscious will want to promote smoking. So we have a Catch 22 situation, where the apparent solution, is in fact the cause of the problem itself! We can see also that smokers will become more depressed as they get older as they rely more and more on the substitute chemicals provided by smoking and produce less and less serotonin naturally. It is now recognised that someone who has smoked throughout their life will stand an 80% greater chance of suffering from severe depression or severe clinical anxiety in middle to old age than a non-smoker. Smokers can eventually become incapable of actually generating any real happiness at all in the growing absence of serotonin which is absolutely essential to our wellbeing. We also know that when we are depressed or anxious, even mildly, we simply have less control generally. Anxiety takes up a lot of space and we know that smokers will have less cerebral efficiency than non-smokers simply as a result of smoking, so the importance of generating positive serotonin production when you quit is paramount, because if you get that right, then your control is even greater, and a whole new pattern of positivity can be established. The good news is that we can begin to generate better production of serotonin very quickly indeed. Serotonin regulates mood and mood regulates serotonin. Mood is dependant on our thought patterns. So, if we quit smoking with a positive mindset, that is, being really pleased that we are finally taking control and doing something good for ourselves, then we can quickly generate the extra serotonin which replaces the “need” to smoke. Smokers who fail to quit usually do so as a result of entering the challenge with a negative mindset. Trying to quit smoking whilst feeling as though you are losing something will invariably create a “victim” mentality which sustains a negative mindset and the result, of course is a serotonin deficit. This of course, means LESS control, LESS contentment, and MORE craving. So, a positive mindset is essential for success. When we get this right, it can be incredibly easy to quit. Often people will find that they have virtually no cravings at all when they get all the factors of understanding right and make provision for increased serotonin production. This means using the time that they might have spent smoking more productively. Exercising, cleaning the house, visiting friends. Whatever will help you to feel good about life. If you are stressed generally, it is very important that you take time out to relax deeply as this is inextricably linked to the level of control you experience. Avoid stressful situations wherever possible, and remember that negative introspection (worry) is counter productive. Stay positive. Notice the good things in your life. Stay with it. Smoking has been standing in as an anti depressant. You’re just experiencing a temporarily depressed chemistry whilst your brain is figuring out that it needs to do but the good thing is snuff will replace all that cigs did so will keep your levels ballenced . But any other nrt does not do this !
Fully Understanding the rules means you can fully break them for good !
nice write up, joe …
But isn’t snuff therefore just doing the same thing that smoking was doing, ie supplying nicotine? Quitting smoking with snuff is only quitting smoking, not nicotine. The addiction is still there, it just changes the delivery system (to a substantially safer one)
That’s what I’m saying but your not just quitting nicotine when you stop smoking ! Your quitting All the other addictive chemicals as well, your not just withdraw nicotine ! Snuff is the closest product to smoking quit wise so your chances are a lot higher ! I dont know the figures but I know nrt has a massive fail rate .
NRT may contain nicotine but it doesn’t have the maois.
I work in NLP and Hypnotherapy and that was a write up from a collegue in the field . And it was also Scientists at Dundee University have discovered that smoking causes physical changes in the brain which stop it being flooded with the body’s natural stress-busting hormone, serotonin.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/160/4/773 Loads is on the net about it mate ! Some for some against some to the extreme investigation . But I beleive what my write up said is correct but that’s my personal belief !
Vathek … i have read ample on the effects of nicotine regarding dopamine and seratonin on the brain … i will try to dig out the links i have, see if they pass the eyeball test for you … i, personally, think that the research joe dug up is valid … as i am my own case study on this … just my opinion, mind you … additionally, while simply conjecture, it would not come as a shock to find out, down the line, that the big tobacco companies have tweaked their cigarette blends to amplify any effect on the brain re:dopamine, with all the chemical combinations as yet unknown to the general public …
sorry joe but your collegue is an idiot or snake oil salesmen. I’ll go with idiot because the other one makes him a bad person who should be punched in the head to reduce his seritonin levels. 50% is a specfic number that would idicate some really serious problems beyond depression. I mean the person would function anywhere near the level a depressed person can function on. Your collegue is full of shit and should be told to shut up. Also even if smokers have lower rates of seretonin love the complete lack of demonstrate any evidence of what the corralation actual is must be smoking. He must have spent years tracking peoples chemical levels before and after smoking. Maybe being studied so closely by a quack is what lowered their levels of seretonin 50% since he would need a baseline level to even figure out such a specfic number. Really any body who even barely understand lab procedure and how to use science could rip his little letter of lies apart in a few seconds. Joe I trust you but don’t listen to this guy he’s a lair or moron.
Vathek are you saying information needs basis to be usefull and not just made up? Wow that’s radical. Oh wait that is standard.
Thsnkyou bob and no offence taken and please take no offence to " you have strong opinions based on what you beleive which is fine …but their is no need to slate and dismiss other peoples opinions and beliefs like you did using the words u did just because you don’t like them or beleive them. It could go on and on me saying how is your comments based in fact vise versa etc etc I think my colleague is right but I won’t say your full of shit because I don’t agree with what u say !!!
The truth is the figures could be less or more as we have no idea what goes onto tobacco anymore and that’s the scary thing also what makes what my colleague says possible
This kind of thing irks me. Scientific speculation is quackery, there’s no two ways about it. Science is not a belief system, the beauty of science is that what you believe is immaterial- science provides facts. If that guy has a hypothesis, then he should perform an experiment, not write a paper of guesses. Serotonin levels are something that can be measured. Until he does that and proves his hypothesis, he’s a charlatan. I’m sorry, but there is a very sound basis to slate and dismiss someone’s opinions and beliefs if those opinions and beliefs are being peddled as scientific facts.
What in the way he did ? I disagree but then I guess I’m more polite in the way I dismiss or disagree on things … And yes their is scientific evidence to prove what my collegue says. This is going to turn into a mess so il make this my final comment . Everyone has different beliefs and we should all respect each other for having them …
“Scientific speculation is quackery, there’s no two ways about it. Science is not a belief system, the beauty of science is that what you believe is immaterial- science provides facts.” Bingo! We have a winner…
:oD is there a pirize? Anyhoo, let’s get back on to tips for the smoker trying to quit or reduce the amount they smoke by using snuff…
Good idea. On that note, I’m finding that snuff is quite the hobby these days. While I have lost that separation from what I’m doing when I step outside for a smoke, I find that I get it back with other things. Checking these boards, browsing Mr. Snuff, and reading reviews all provide a little break in my day, which was one of the biggest bonus of having to leave the building to smoke.
Yes, I did miss the break part. I worked a straight eleven hour shift with no breaks, and while I didn’t miss the nicotine, I sure missed standing outside and not having to think about work for five minutes. Smoking is a package deal, but the problem is not insurmountable. You just have to find a way around these things. I would have been a lot more frustrated if I couldn’t step outside for five minutes AND was craving nicotine!
I am happy to report about 7 or 8 weeks of no rollies. Sometimes I do get a very strong urge to inhale burning paper and tobacco smoke, it only lasts about a minute, and a nice big pinch of something strong kills it fast. I smoke a pipe too, but like it was mentioned, it is a totally different experience, no way to get that rush, like from a nice pinch of snuff. I have found even after smoking a bowl of my strongest leaf, or even a cigar, or an hour with a snus pouch, a good pinch will still deliver a rush. Interesting notes on serotonin. I wonder if that has anything to do with the three-day hump? You know, once you get to 3 days of no smoke, it’s “downhill” from there? I have found vigorous exercise helps very much, the burning in the throat from gasping for air actually feels good, and slakes the irrational thirst for burning fumes. It becomes addicting, but of all addictions, the desire to be gasping for air and the O2 high is one of the easiest addictions to break.
I gave up my addiction to exercise years ago. It freed up plenty of time for me to work on my stomach fat collection. It’s my most prized possession.
i just snuff crushed up chantix if i am craving a ciggie ( joking )
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1507093/pdf/bmjcred00678-0014.pdf Have you guys seen this study? It actually proves that snuffing gets as much nicotine into the system as smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes work better on a hit by hit basis but snuffing will get the concentration of nicotine in the blood system much higher. So if you are trying to quit smoking snuff is a perfect substitute for nicotine delivery.
I agree- apart from the buzz that is. Cigarettes (at least for me) seem to get nicotine into my system faster, but when I take snuff I can feel it build up more gradually. I found that rather than waiting to crave, it was better to go by my watch and take the snuff like medicine. That way, I was pretty much on a level the whole time, without the yoyoing effect of smoking. I know I keep banging on about it, but eleven hours without smoking is a huge deal for me, and I feel that if I can go that long, I could switch full time if I chose to. Funnily enough, when I worked yesterday I was able to step out for a quick smoke. Not only was I not champing at the bit to smoke, but I found that I couldn’t smoke the cigarette all the way. The snuff must have delivered a good smooth dose of nicotine. I wonder how much nicotine is absorbed long after snuffing when we inevitably swallow a small amount postnasally? That could account for the consistency of the nicotine level.
@cstokes4 Chris, just wanted to draw your attention to the medical report posted by @greencrow. I’m sure its been posted before, as it looks familar, but you probably want to make sure its in the FAQ articles archive.
The conclusion of that report says: In conclusion, the rapid absorption of nicotine from snuff confirms its potential as an acceptable substitute for smoking. Switching from cigarettes to snuff would substantially reduce the risk of lung cancer, bronchitis, emphysema, and possibly coronary heart disease as well, at the cost of a slight increase in the risk of cancer of the nasopharynx (or oral cavity in the case of wet snuff). Another advantage of snuff is that it does not contaminate the atmosphere for non-users.
Thanks for the heads up @Xander.
and remember kids (adults actualy) that a slight increase in a rare cancer is much better then a significant increase a common cancer is even safer then it sounds.
Article has been added to the “Harm Reduction” thread in the FAQ, thanks for the link @greencrow.
I used to smoke heavily twenty cigs and upwards. I think smoking all that bleached paper, tars and nicotine straight into the lungs is going to have bad consequences. This is not science just common sense. I read an article a long time ago that an extract of a S American nut was used to produce a mellow taste in cigs. This nut was found to be several factors more addictive than hard drugs. After moving to pipes and then to snuff and snus, I now have strong anti-cig feelings. Let people smoke them by all means, if they wish. But how little of the pleasure of tobacco, and what a hard compulsive habit to kick…I seem to recall that nicotine itself is said to be ‘non-addictive’ in some kind of scientific sense - just habit forming. You could have fooled me when I smoked cigs!
The reports that I have read have suggested that nicotine itself is no more harmful than caffeine, and that it’s more the carbon monoxide etc that cause cardiac problems, and of course the nitrosamines etc that cause cancer. I don’t know if the non-addictive thing is true, there was a huge lawsuit about this some time ago, where the tobacco companies claimed that it wasn’t addictive. I’m pretty sure they got shot down by the scientists.
Here we go, stolen from the wikipedia page: Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.
I couldn’t quit with nasal snuff alone but i’m sure it’s possible. With Swedish snus i quit smoking overnight…
You might find this website useful if you haven’t already: http://www.smokersonly.org/