…and don’t say I didn’t warn you. This information in this post is known by most on this forum I think. I know I have discussed it before. Nevertheless it is nicely presented in this scientific blog, and well worth a read. Even though I knew the gist of what this guy talks about, it still makes me sad and mad that the ant-tobacco zealots continue to promote these things. See for yourself here: http://mrsnuff.com/store/news.php?article=15 It was written by a guy from www.tobaccoharmreduction.org which is a great site if you have never been there before. I reposted it with prior permission from the guy who runs the site, Brad Radu. Dave
Hi Dave, The tobaccoharmreduction.org site was created and is run by Dr. Carl V. Phillips, not Brad Radu, I believe. The article you posted is also written by Dr. Phillips. It just mentions Brad Radu. Best Regards, Geraldo
And this right here is EXACTLY why I take no stock whatsoever in medical ‘statistics’…just too many variables that are not accounted for, and especially with tobacco studies, too much bias, and ‘smokescreen’ tactics. I say use your own judgement, and as long as your not hurting others, do what makes you happy!!
I’m waiting for those idiots to come out with a warning that “2nd hand snuff breath” causes cancer.
@perique. I had a friend advise me to never hold my baby daughter after I smoke a cigar until I have showered and changed clothes. The particles left behind on my skin may harm her. Talk about buying into fearmongering.
Me I love reading medical statistics. The tricky thing is you have to know how to read them and what they really say. Though just because there are lots of ins and outs and complications is certainly no reason to disreguard the whole thing. Just means you should be carefull and critical. Also if you can always find out how they got their info. And with medical information it doesn’t mean much untill it keeps happening under as many diffrent situations as possible. Which is why I feel confident that smokeless is pretty harmless and cigarettes are the devil. For example no matter what other lifestyle things people do there is certainly a lot more lung cancer around a certain age among cigarette smokers. No real corelation with smokeless. Then again this is one of my things so. Here is a neat medical fact. Lungs have taste buds. Though they don’t taste but it’s the same cells.
We can’t handle the truth anyhow!
The truth will set you free. Or so I’ve been told that. Either way the truth is your friend plus if you know it, it’s like having an unfair advantage that no one in their right mind can begrudge you.
What I don’t understand is tobacco use is a fraction of what it used to be in the UK and US and cancer rates continue to climb. Maybe its all the exhaust fumes. A fellow told me “Cars are more deadly than smoking and I can prove it. I will go in a garage and close it up and smoke my pipe. You go in a garage and close it up and run your car.” Maybe we should outlaw automobiles.
Good point, Nachman. Obviously there are a million other things causing cancer. Maybe its the crap they put into our drinking water, maybe its the crap I see airplanes spraying in the sky all day long, maybe its the crap they put in the food or the vaccines or the “modern” construction materials used to build homes. Its probably a combination. I just wish there were half as many educated groups fighting the things I mentioned as opposed to fighting tobacco…
I’ll tell you what ‘gets’ me: that the first 7 out of 10 in Mr. Snuff’s “Best Sellers” list are Poschl products. And numbers 8 and 10 are Rockit.
ok…? And that ‘gets u’ because…?
Well smoking isn’t the only cancer causeing agent. It’s just a really obvious one and a relativily avoidable one too. There are many reasons cancer is on the rise. One is detection and survival rates. For example it’s much more likely for someone to get cancer a second or third time if they live through it the first time. People are living longer which is a major factor. Though two of the biggest things that will lower your cancer risk much more then quiting smoking are excercising and making sure that you eat a variety of plants (fruits and veggies) regularly. Both factors are way down in the industrialized world. Oh another thing that’s gone up is the amount of excessive drinking people do in both countries. Not the amount of drinking but the amount of knock out idiotic levels of boozing. So hope that makes more sense.
Have some Japanese spinach. That ought to lower your cancer risk.
Nachman there’s a time lag with lung cancer. If you have a population where the average age of smokers is thirty and 70 percent smoking prevalence you’ll still have a low lung cancer rate, so countries like china and vietnam are going to have a very high rate of male lung cancer in 30-40 years even though there will probably be less smokers. There’s actually a model in predicting this it’s something like step 1 low prevalence male only smoking, step 2 increased male smoking higher per capita consumption (cigs smoked per day), step three level off in male smoking rates increase in female smoking rates. Step 4 fall in male consumption, level off or slight increase female smoking. This is when you actually have the highest lung cancer rate. All of the industrialized world is in step 4 and it stays there or we have occasional spikes like the 90’s when 30 percent of kids smoked after it being in the 20’s during the 80’s which were just returning to. I think after that you’ll have increased Other tobacco product use (pipes, cigars, smokeless tobacco, nasal snuff etc.). Except for lung cancer other forms of cancer have leveled off or decreased in the end people have to die of something your body isn’t going to keep running forever which is usually heart disease or some form of cancer.
I guess my problem is I don’t believe what those in authority, ie the government, academia etc, tell us. I am an old man and one of the few consistent things in my life is that those people lie to me. Both my paternal grandparents died of lung cancer and never smoked or were around smoke. My father smoked and died at 82 from a doctors error. I have smoked since I was 12 and am now approaching 70, at my doctors insistence, I recently had a full work up on my lungs and they were fine. When I was middle aged I had ulcers and my doctors told me I was too nervous. Then they discovered ulcers are caused by a bacteria. The cancers they have been able to find a cause for are caused by viruses. I think cancers are a collection of diseases caused by an assortment of viruses. I can only live by my own experiences as I have learned not to trust the theories of the medical community.
Man doctors do know more about what they are talking about. They are just dealing with one of the most insanely complicated and variable things the human body. Take a few anatomy classes and you’ll start feeling like even what old time doctors 1700-1800 is amazingly incredible. How much they knew then is mind blowing when you consider how mysterious and strange a living organism is. That’s my feelings on it. No one will ever really understand the body or medicine.
Nachman is right. What we know as “Cancer” is a collection of diseases that all share the same trait: uncontrolled replication of one’s cells. The actual “cause” of cancer is dependent on numerous factors and the type of cancer in question. I automatically do not trust medical opinions of tobacco use, especially smokeless tobacco, because it is impossible for these researchers to present unbiased results. I’d be more willing to believe stuff that is not biased, for obvious reasons.
I also have 0 trust in the medical community. My ex-gf’s grandpa was diagnosed with cancer, went through chemo therapy that almost killed him - only to be told by several other specialists that he never had cancer to begin with. Chemotherapy killed my grandfather only a month ago. statistically the medical industry is like the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. I could list a million examples, and no I’m not saying all doctors are bad, I’m just talking about the medical/pharma community as a whole. Its obviously a huge BUSINESS and when it comes down to it they have little interest in finding cures because a cure hurts business. They want to extract the maximum amount of profit from an individual without really curing anything. In fact,many believe (myself included) that many so called psychological disorders (add,adhd,ocd,etc) are really just personality traits and not any kind of “illness” at all. They create diagnosis and fake disorders in order to sell more drugs. If you do some research you’ll find that many prominent members of the American Psychiatric Assoc. (those who create the guidelines of diagnosis for the doctors) are also working for the companies who produce the drugs for the illness they just made up! It has become ridiculous when we get to the point that they are marketing anti-depressants for your pets…i mean…seriously. Your 5 year old fidgits in his chair and all of a sudden he’s sick with ADD and they say he needs ritalin. 5 year olds are supposed to fidgit in their chairs, they are children full of energy! Sorry to rant, but like Nachman…I dont trust them and I dont believe a word they say. Your average joe doctor down the street might have your best interest in mind but those who trained him in academia and those who the average joe doctor gets his info/guidelines/paycheck from do not have your best interest in mind, they have your wallets in mind.
OK, thanks for all opinions. This thread is drifting into a psuedo-politcal-controversial area and may provoke unfriendly repsonses.