Bittersweet good news!

Today I received an invoice from Bernards for the final, elusive order we were promised. We are not getting everything we asked for but were are getting everything they have left.

This means we will probably be the last man standing selling Bernards but more importantly, it means we will be able to hold back sufficient samples to allow Project Lazarus, our effort to clone the best of their range, to go ahead.

Full disclosure: we will be adding a small premium to the price in order to fund Lazarus. We hope to have new designs and develop new style packaging, and the extra we make on the last of the Bernards will go towards those setup costs.

Any idea’s to the base maybe a burley / rustica blend

This is great news! Any idea when it’ll be live on the site?

Honestly, though, I hope the “premium” is indeed small, because I waited a long while to order from MrSnuff when Toque still had some Bernard’s in stock.

This is great news! (As much as it can be, all things considered).

I think project Lazarus is a great idea and important, to keep snuffs alive in some way.
Kinda how ft HDT etc was.
Different makers helping to keep it alive is very nice

I will try to get the money together to pay the invoice as soon as possible because I know we have loads of people waiting. Cash is very tight, because of all the recent price drops, and the invoice is huge, because we asked for everything they had, but I will do my best.

Honestly, my advice would be to buy from Toque right away, I wouldn’t wait because who knows what we will actually get from Bernards in the end? The company is in its death throes so I am not banking on anything despite the encouraging noises.

Ultimately, if we do get something you want, and the price is still acceptable to you, then we would love your business, but I wouldn’t hold back if you have the opportunity to get any now. Once the Bernards is gone from the marketplace, it really will be gone.

I have no idea, truth be told, although I am putting myself through a crash course right now. Can you explain the difference please.

Talking of which, assuming we pull it off, I will be relying on Friends of Mr Snuff to help me test and refine the products.

We need to get them to the point where an experienced snuffer would say, during a blind test: “I don’t know what it is but it is just like Bernards [xxx]”.

Do you think that will be possible?

They sold out of most Bernard’s a while back, actually. I probably should have jumped on the few I wanted while they were still in stock there, but since you were waiting on more I thought I’d just wait do one bigger order. I also held off an order with you for the same reason… Maybe not the best decisions in retrospect! Glad you’ll be getting some in, anyway.

Rustica is from genus Nicotiana Rustica, where as commercial used tobacco is from Nicotiana Tobacum (what most mean when speaking tobacco and what is mostly used mainstream).
They are like cousins?
There’s different types of Nicotiana Tobacum, Burley is one.

Rustica is usually just all classified the same, but I’m sure there’s many types aswell.

Tobacum can be like 0.3-3% nicotine (usually around 1-2% it seems) , whereas Rustica can go all the way to 9% nicotine!! (Usually it’s around 3-6% it seems) .
Very strong, pure Rustica might be too strong for many, or something you couldn’t pinch alot of. Why it’s usually in a blend with other tobacco/s (and tastes etc)
A Burley and Rustica tobacco blend sounds nice imo.

Some compiled info if curious on more vs them :

Burley and Rustica tobaccos are distinct varieties with notable differences:

1. Origin and Growth:

• Burley: Primarily cultivated in the United States, it’s known for its mild flavor and low sugar content. Burley tobacco is air-cured, which gives it a smooth taste.
• Rustica: Originating from South America, particularly regions like Peru and Brazil, Rustica tobacco is more potent with a higher nicotine content. It’s often sun-cured, leading to a stronger, more pungent flavor.

2. Nicotine Content and Strength:

• Burley: Generally has a lower nicotine content compared to Rustica, making it suitable for milder tobacco products.
• Rustica: Contains higher levels of nicotine, contributing to its stronger and more robust flavor profile. It’s often used sparingly in blends due to its potency.

3. Flavor Profile:

• Burley: Offers a subtle, nutty flavor with hints of cocoa or coffee. It’s valued for its ability to absorb flavorings and additives well.
• Rustica: Has a distinct, earthy flavor with a noticeable sharpness. It can be quite intense and is often used for its strong nicotine hit rather than for its mild taste.

4. Usage in Tobacco Blends:

• Burley: Commonly used as a base in pipe tobaccos and cigarette blends due to its smoothness and ability to complement other flavors.
• Rustica: Used sparingly in blends, primarily to enhance nicotine content and add a kick to the tobacco mixture.

5. Cultural and Historical Significance:

• Burley: Integral to American tobacco farming traditions, often associated with mainstream tobacco products in the US.
• Rustica: Historically significant in indigenous South American cultures, where it has been used ceremonially and medicinally for centuries.

Will Lazarus snuffs be made from Indian tobaccos from Indian Brands like Snuv was made?

Maybe a coarse ground moist Madras would be close to Gekachelter’s impostor but that’s already a stretch. An Indian attempt to that style. That may be completely different from Gekachelter in result but still a nice snuff

Just to expand on ALLex’s comment, I could see the likes of Magic Moments, Winterpris and Klostermischung working really well on the tobacco used in the Snuv Black range

Fichtennadel

I would say, following original formula to T, virtually any brown / dark brown base would work for such a heavily aromatized snuff like this F. You just need to make a pine bomb with some menthol and camphor. Dark air cured or dark sun cured anything would do it, just dob’t make it silly fine, don’t make it on a regular Indian black snuff base and don’t use white snuff base, @Jonny.

For schmalzlers, do them on dark air cured or dark sun cured. Again, don’t make them silly fine etc.

Just do follow Bernard compositions to T (all bar the cherry-flavoured one, Postillion and some other the name if which I cannot remember are disclosed on BMEL data base), strictly to a T, and don’t allow Vikas to make them in an Indian fashion. The grind is important, they might need to use different grinders than they are used to.

I can see the difference’s have been explained between tobacco’s. When it come’s to testing send out a sample with the original for people to try I’d give out a 1g-1.5g of both to test should be a good amount for a good test. I’d be happy to try some to compare.

Just mark the bags A & B don’t say what they are and see what people say about each bag. Not sure how many you want to test it I would make about 40/50 samples to get a good idea across a fair amount of people. You could do less but I think for testing you should get a good amount doing it.

If I were picking flour I would use 70% burley & 30% rustica get some more nicotine in there. or maybe 60 to 40

I have a few tins of many of the real thing, I’d be happy to do some testing (happy to pay for the samples too and will grab some more Bernards if I get the opportunity).

The only complaint with these is poor nic apart from that some are quite enjoyable but would be nicer if they had that little extra nicotine.

Never really bought much because of it due to that also avoided other snuff’s because of the same shite nic so added some indian white snuff to some to fix it lmao

This is all great info. Thanks.

We were hoping to commission McChrystal’s to help us clone them up. We are tossing around ideas here, thinking about a new MrSnuff branded range that will include the best of Bernards and Rosinski

We are also considering adding in the German only Poschl products we mostly fail to import. They are great sellers but almost impossible to keep in stock.

Hopefully it won’t be as fine as McChrystals.

Rosinski snuffs would be good, but for that. I would ask him if you could buy the recipes from him, help support him could lead to future snuff ranges? He knows how to make great snuffs.

From a commercial perspective I think using anything other than a similar base to the originals would be unwise. People didn’t buy these products for strong nicotine content and straying from the original may limit appeal to a very narrow market.

René Rosinski is something of a master and I don’t think anyone would mange to get close to his range. He puts together scents which should have no hope of working and makes very pleasant snuff.

With all due respect to McChrystals, I don’t see anything in their range which leads me to believe they’d have a hope of blending anything close to a Rosinski snuff.

I like the idea of some sort of partnership which allowed continued Rosinski production - this is one guy who couldn’t overcome bureaucracy and all indications are that he’d much prefer to still be in this line of business. The idea of cloning his products doesn’t sit right with me and would serve only to compound his misfortune.

If it were just the same. Think I would just stick with sharrows snuffs and the others I enjoy. I think a blend is the way to go myself best of both tobacco’s. Whatever happens some will buy it, some won’t. Some will love it, some could hate it. Like any product. Just nice seeing new snuffs been made.

I total agree. Rene is a great asset to snuff.

Doesn’t McChrystal’s source their base flour from Wilson’s anyway?

edit: I forgot about their Highland Ice coarse and oiled variant, not sure if that’s made in-house or not.

Probably a lot get it from them

This is very interesting. We chose McChrystals because we have a good relationship with them and they are local, or at least UK.

For me the point of this exercise is to clone the target snuff. So it shouldn’t be too fine, or too strong, or too anything - it should be a clone, identical.

The definition of success is this: we send A/B samples to a group of expert snuffers and the chance if them choosing the original is 50%. Then we have a clone.

Is that even possible? I don’t know, but I am interested to see how close we can get.

Now as to strength. I think @115 makes a good point, but I would modify it slightly to say, if we get a decent clone of whatever, maybe we should consider making a stronger variant e.g. ‘Clone Z’ and its variant ‘Clone Z Extra’.

Rosinski. Thanks for the heads up. We will reach out to him and see what he is thinking. I agree that it would be disrespectful to clone if he has any desire to still be in the game, and my goodness, having the real deal is vastly preferable to some second best attempt.

Please keep the opinions coming. Its golden info for me.

a doppelganger clone sounds good.

I’m sure McChrystals have got the skills …but they can’t mix in an oiled base . They aren’t allowed to in the the UK . So they’ll struggle to copy Bernard or Poschl flavours .I’m sure they could make Virginie . but why anyone would want to is a mystery to me .

I totally agree that the German domestic snuffs need taking out from behind the shady import paywall . Aren’t Poschl still making contract brands ? That might be a way to dodge the TPD EU bullshit .

At least one schmalzer . Gawith Silver , Packards Club maybe .

I’m unfamiliar with the sexy JBR brand …and at £10 a pop , I will likely remain unfamiliar for some time to come A short break to Germany would pay for itself .

Hi @Pikey

They aren’t allowed to in the the UK

Is it illegal to manufacture oiled snuff in the UK?

Our contact with McChrystals seems confident they can make any snuff we want but maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The Indian manufacturers say the same, but I worry about their lead times and the additional importation costs that make Indian snuffs not necessarily as cheap as they like to say.

I will need to do my due diligence around the legality of manufacturing Gernan style snuffs in Blighty though.

Does anybody else have any info on this?

I’m pretty sure UK makers can’t use paraffin or whatever , in the manufacture of their snuff . That’s why those little taptins dry out .

Maybe under a contract brand , shipping direct to Isle of Man , they think they can use it ? . But I’m pretty sure a maker like Sharrow Mills wouldn’t .

The obvious candidate is Toque . He been mixing Germanic style snuffs for a while and by many accounts , he doing a decent job of it. There might be a Polish route but I don’t know enough about their domestic setup to comment .

I’m sure Vikas could do the recipes , but the right source tobacco might be an ongoing issue .

I don’t use a lot of Germanic snuff, but rate the fruit/menthol offerings from Toque’s Otto range more highly than Ozona/Poschl.

As for your previous comment about Gekachelter Virginie… I won’t dignify it with a considered response

I was going to also mention toque (Otto) brand. Oiled.
I know most (if not all) of all the lines toque, Otto etc are from WoS as far as I know.

Must be able to be done. Not sure on technicalities though regarding place of manufacture though.

Personally I’d say marking the original is important for comparison to any others, atleast while ironing things out. You want to know the real one and give input on the other (more sweet, less, more pine, etc)

McChrystals base (they only use one base, with the exception of a less fine grind for one product) as far as I know. It is decent, but … WoS many different bases, many type of tobacco and mix’s, before any toppings/scent/flavor are factored in, imo

I agree work it out first, but I’m all for the stronger nic version.

Thinking on it a bit , I started to wonder whether a few might be clonable through water based techniques
Magic Moments Black for example .
Is there anything about it that simply has to be Germanic ? It’s all intense flavour ,does it really need a a paraffin base or a particular tobacco to work ?

For a true Clone , yes it matters in my opinion. At the least the grind and general tobacco type making up part-most-all of it, and if original was oiled then it is definitely noticed if not done so.

I don’t care much if there’s Rustica and super high nic personally, but that’s because I’d probably add my own and mix.
I prefer strong snuffs overall, and just take less at a time if anything.

Funny, I always considered Bernard’s snuffs to be pretty high in nicotine and thought they were actually known for that. I find them stronger than anything British-made, anyway.

I’m in the camp of trying to make actual clones, getting them as close as possible to the originals.

I hope McChrystals will make the clones for you!
They will be superb compared to being made by an Indian brand.

I would literally love a Gekachelter Virginie made by McCrystals. I think they got the skills and they can source the right tobaccos.

P.S. I would love to order a sample of the McCrystal’s take on Gekachelter Virginie

@Pikey don’t be so sure, I think this “law” is an old outdated law of the old snuffing ages. Toque is in UK and makes Otto which is oiled. Where have you seen this law about paraffin oil? I think that’s an old tale

I believe McCrystals can do them oiled.
They dont have any oiled snuff in their range simple because they are commited to English style snuffs.

Use Wayback Machine and skim through the archived pages of schmalzlerfranzl.de, also have a read on Pöschl website - both sites describe the manufacturing process and, if my memory serves well, even mention the tobaccos used for schmalzlers. Also, watch the footage about Pöschl tobacco manufacturing, a link to which you can find on snuff videos thread (uploaded on YouTube)

Honestly, McCh and Indian folks are the worst options, when it comes to to-be attempts to clone schmalzlers.

I don’t think anyone in the UK cares about old snuff manufacturing standards and I’m fairly sure that some UK mills have been making a good bunch of oiled snuffs for some continental companies for at least a couple of decades. WoS can do it, I have no doubts about it. They know how to make pretty decent darker flour, like Singleton’s base, and tweaking its formulation by changing alkalizers and adding vinegar, molasses etc where needed wouldn’t be too challenging. I would opt for WoS and their Singleton’s base for schmalzlers

Pöschl make their popular snuffs from a blend of Virginia, Burley and Oriental tobaccos. Ratios are disclosed on French data base (online).

WoS could make it. McCh are just a snuff scenters and packagers. They have zero experience at making base flour, imo.

@Pikey, no snuff is manufactured in Poland these days. There only are some homemakers.

Pretty solid points but I guess McCrystals can source the right tobaccos or flours from WoS for that project.

WoS would make them great for sure I totally agree.

Now that I think about it Gekachelter Virginie Clone might end up being kinda the same as Viking Brown just a little bit oiled if made by WoS (or McCrystals assuming they get the right flours from WoS or wherever they by them from).

I would be delighted to be wrong about the paraffin thing , That would improve available options no end .

On a separate but loosely related matter , is McChrystals Highland Ice Coarse a Poschl made contract snuff ? It certainly looks it from here :).

.

This is why I try to buy stronger snuffs. I don’t really want to be at it all the time so like you say if it’s stronger you can use less. Never really bother with weaker snuffs unless I’m trying it, knowing I could just bang something else in there to lift it if I’m not happy with it as is. Think this is why I love sharrow mills they do a good range that suits all.

I’ve lightly oiled some of my snuff, home made, with organic coconut oil. It wasn’t bad!

Apparently it’s the exact same base all all the rest, just ground less fine (as far as I know)

I have done it too but I much prefer to oil my homemade snuffs with paraffin oil and they become exactly like German snuffs in consistency. Paraffin oil smells like nothing. Coconut oil has a coconut smell that I personally wouldn’t want in a snuff

Years ago , I did do the reading about German snuff production . My tl/dr takeaway was that the Germans were traditionally pretty fussy about their tobacco selection . Also their tobacco prep sounds more like baking or kitchen work . Just to get to the base for the snuff .

Funny little old video from Bernard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPRWmIgagh4

Don’t think an 100g would last a night there

Had a Magic Moment last night and answered my own question . No it isn’t a snuff you could fake out of a bottle . You might be able to fudge the source tobacco a little bit , modernize the base flour preparation/fermentation etc without losing quality , but that’s about it in my opinion .

Does this include tobacco- less products?

Yes, the whole company has gone out of business.

well, I’m wondering if I need to jump on the bandwagon with Bernards. I’ve never had any in part because I don’t like tapboxes albeit very nice decorative tapboxes. My question to those most familiar with the brand is:
What are the one or two “iconic” offerings from Berbards that would be a shame to miss out on? Thx guys.

looks like there is just this one: Bernard Feinster Kownoer 10g the others look like non-tobacco snuffs which I dont care for. Late again. shoot.

The thread linked below contains precisely the sort of recommendations you’re looking for.

Yeah, it’s too late… unless and until MrSnuff gets the semi-legendary final shipment… Last update we had from @Jonny was 22 days ago. He’d received the final invoice (with less than they’d hoped for), and was getting the funds together to pay it (scroll up).

Thanks for the information. Guess I’ll try to acquire some via the sell/trade thread.

I have paid for it so I hope the prophecies come true.

In fact we here at MrSnuff are going to be in an interesting position when it arrives. On the one hand, we will be holding the last stock for a number of the brands, which is good for us (cornered resource) but the problem is that in my haste to buy whatever they had I have now overstocked a number of brands that don’t sell so well.

So we might find ourselves selling some edge case Bernards snuffs at bargain prices to keep up our warehouse throughput. It wasn’t the plan but at least it gets the product out there.

The main thing is to have sufficient samples of the popular products to allow us to do a good job of cloning them, if that is where we eventually end up.

Given that a few of them were pretty similar (and at least two said to be identical), overstock on some less popular ones is still better than none! And those who haven’t tried any will now get to.

I’m guessing there will be similar dynamic to the closing down of McClelland pipe tobacco in the US. Suddenly all these blends that nobody cared about were snapped up. But hopefully a “secondary market” won’t develop, with people selling Bernard snuffs at massive profits.

Hi

A while back I mentioned that we might add a small premium to Bernards product to fund Project Lazarus.

The good news is that McChrystals has now taken on the job of keeping the Bernards range alive so no need for Lazarus, and no need to for the that premium.

We did lower our prices for our best selling Bernards as part of the recent, general price revision, but some of the slower selling Bernards remained unchanged.

I mention this here because unfortunately I have been banned from reddit.

The price is what it is and there’s no more original product available outside a few European countries from which the EU prohibit external sales.

If I remember correctly, until Toque recently decided to cynically increase many prices in order to undercut you by a penny they charged £4.99 for most of the Bernard tap box range and £6.99 for boxes of Gekachelter Virginie. I understand that costs are incurred bringing product to the Isle of Man and that profit needs to be made, but I simply struggle to justify paying £6 for something I don’t really need and which sold in Germany and other parts of Europe for a little over €2. Clearly mine is a minority opinion and I wish you well in moving this last Bernard product which no one else went to the trouble of securing.

I feel your pain – and they really add up when trying to stock up now in case McChrystal’s doesn’t quite hit the mark. But after seeing how McClelland pipe tobacco went from $10 for a 2oz tin retail to $75-$100 aftermarket, it’s worth it for me given that there’s nothing out there that’s comparable and probably 85% of what I snuff is Bernard’s. I also saw that some Poschls are even more than Bernard’s, like Alpina and Andechs Spezial.

I guess I’m fortunate having a nose that favours English snuff and all products that I buy in large quantities being available for relatively low prices. I certainly enjoy a number of Bernard snuffs, but not to the point of wanting to consume 20-30g/week of any.

The ‘import’ Poschls are another group from which I don’t make any regular purchases on the basis of price. Again I understand why they cost more, but don’t feel the need to have them on hand regularly. I have promised myself a break in Germany, from which I’ll return with a significant quantity of snuff - perhaps primarily Poschl Silver.

I do have some plans for the Bernard snuff I have on hand… While most will deplete due to occasional use, Winterprise will be used quickly in the days prior to Christmas. Gekachelter Virginie I’m on the fence about - do I eke out the best part of 100g for as long as possible or blow through it in the space of a few enjoyable weeks

One thing I’ve noticed about Bernard snuffs is that they age far better than others (say F&T or WoS). I’m not sure I could tell the difference between 2-year-old Original Schmalzlerfranzel and fresh. It’s different with the menthols, though – Fichtennadel definitely loses its zing. Maybe stuff like Magic Moments would fade, too.

I’d imagine the oil plays a part in that

Spoil yourself and go all in

I reckon that’s the most likely outcome, but I’ll hold off for a while…