Doesn’t McChrystal’s source their base flour from Wilson’s anyway?
edit: I forgot about their Highland Ice coarse and oiled variant, not sure if that’s made in-house or not.
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Probably a lot get it from them
This is very interesting. We chose McChrystals because we have a good relationship with them and they are local, or at least UK.
For me the point of this exercise is to clone the target snuff. So it shouldn’t be too fine, or too strong, or too anything - it should be a clone, identical.
The definition of success is this: we send A/B samples to a group of expert snuffers and the chance if them choosing the original is 50%. Then we have a clone.
Is that even possible? I don’t know, but I am interested to see how close we can get.
Now as to strength. I think @115 makes a good point, but I would modify it slightly to say, if we get a decent clone of whatever, maybe we should consider making a stronger variant e.g. ‘Clone Z’ and its variant ‘Clone Z Extra’.
Rosinski. Thanks for the heads up. We will reach out to him and see what he is thinking. I agree that it would be disrespectful to clone if he has any desire to still be in the game, and my goodness, having the real deal is vastly preferable to some second best attempt.
Please keep the opinions coming. Its golden info for me.
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a doppelganger clone sounds good.
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I’m sure McChrystals have got the skills …but they can’t mix in an oiled base . They aren’t allowed to in the the UK . So they’ll struggle to copy Bernard or Poschl flavours .I’m sure they could make Virginie . but why anyone would want to is a mystery to me 
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I totally agree that the German domestic snuffs need taking out from behind the shady import paywall . Aren’t Poschl still making contract brands ? That might be a way to dodge the TPD EU bullshit .
At least one schmalzer . Gawith Silver , Packards Club maybe .
I’m unfamiliar with the sexy JBR brand …and at £10 a pop , I will likely remain unfamiliar for some time to come A short break to Germany would pay for itself 
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Hi @Pikey
They aren’t allowed to in the the UK
Is it illegal to manufacture oiled snuff in the UK?
Our contact with McChrystals seems confident they can make any snuff we want but maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The Indian manufacturers say the same, but I worry about their lead times and the additional importation costs that make Indian snuffs not necessarily as cheap as they like to say.
I will need to do my due diligence around the legality of manufacturing Gernan style snuffs in Blighty though.
Does anybody else have any info on this?
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I’m pretty sure UK makers can’t use paraffin or whatever , in the manufacture of their snuff . That’s why those little taptins dry out .
Maybe under a contract brand , shipping direct to Isle of Man , they think they can use it ? . But I’m pretty sure a maker like Sharrow Mills wouldn’t .
The obvious candidate is Toque . He been mixing Germanic style snuffs for a while and by many accounts , he doing a decent job of it. There might be a Polish route but I don’t know enough about their domestic setup to comment .
I’m sure Vikas could do the recipes , but the right source tobacco might be an ongoing issue .
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I don’t use a lot of Germanic snuff, but rate the fruit/menthol offerings from Toque’s Otto range more highly than Ozona/Poschl.
As for your previous comment about Gekachelter Virginie… I won’t dignify it with a considered response 
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I was going to also mention toque (Otto) brand. Oiled.
I know most (if not all) of all the lines toque, Otto etc are from WoS as far as I know.
Must be able to be done. Not sure on technicalities though regarding place of manufacture though.
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Personally I’d say marking the original is important for comparison to any others, atleast while ironing things out. You want to know the real one and give input on the other (more sweet, less, more pine, etc)
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McChrystals base (they only use one base, with the exception of a less fine grind for one product) as far as I know. It is decent, but … WoS many different bases, many type of tobacco and mix’s, before any toppings/scent/flavor are factored in, imo
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I agree work it out first, but I’m all for the stronger nic version.
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Thinking on it a bit , I started to wonder whether a few might be clonable through water based techniques
Magic Moments Black for example .
Is there anything about it that simply has to be Germanic ? It’s all intense flavour ,does it really need a a paraffin base or a particular tobacco to work ?
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For a true Clone , yes it matters in my opinion. At the least the grind and general tobacco type making up part-most-all of it, and if original was oiled then it is definitely noticed if not done so.
I don’t care much if there’s Rustica and super high nic personally, but that’s because I’d probably add my own and mix.
I prefer strong snuffs overall, and just take less at a time if anything.
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Funny, I always considered Bernard’s snuffs to be pretty high in nicotine and thought they were actually known for that. I find them stronger than anything British-made, anyway.
I’m in the camp of trying to make actual clones, getting them as close as possible to the originals.
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I hope McChrystals will make the clones for you!
They will be superb compared to being made by an Indian brand.
I would literally love a Gekachelter Virginie made by McCrystals. I think they got the skills and they can source the right tobaccos.
P.S. I would love to order a sample of the McCrystal’s take on Gekachelter Virginie
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@Pikey don’t be so sure, I think this “law” is an old outdated law of the old snuffing ages. Toque is in UK and makes Otto which is oiled. Where have you seen this law about paraffin oil? I think that’s an old tale
I believe McCrystals can do them oiled.
They dont have any oiled snuff in their range simple because they are commited to English style snuffs.
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Use Wayback Machine and skim through the archived pages of schmalzlerfranzl.de, also have a read on Pöschl website - both sites describe the manufacturing process and, if my memory serves well, even mention the tobaccos used for schmalzlers. Also, watch the footage about Pöschl tobacco manufacturing, a link to which you can find on snuff videos thread (uploaded on YouTube)
Honestly, McCh and Indian folks are the worst options, when it comes to to-be attempts to clone schmalzlers.
I don’t think anyone in the UK cares about old snuff manufacturing standards and I’m fairly sure that some UK mills have been making a good bunch of oiled snuffs for some continental companies for at least a couple of decades. WoS can do it, I have no doubts about it. They know how to make pretty decent darker flour, like Singleton’s base, and tweaking its formulation by changing alkalizers and adding vinegar, molasses etc where needed wouldn’t be too challenging. I would opt for WoS and their Singleton’s base for schmalzlers
Pöschl make their popular snuffs from a blend of Virginia, Burley and Oriental tobaccos. Ratios are disclosed on French data base (online).
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WoS could make it. McCh are just a snuff scenters and packagers. They have zero experience at making base flour, imo.
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