Are there any WW1 buffs here at snuffhouse?
A little bit. I am much more of a WW2 buff because my family was so deeply involved in it and most of the literature around the house since I was a kid was of the WW-2 variety. I also thought of WW1 to be even more wasteful and futile than WW2, not that WW2 was much of a good idea. But militarily, most of the tactics were downright primitive, as in bronze age style. 2 Armies basically frontal clashing each other on the field, but with relatively modern missile weapons capable of blowing up hundreds of soldiers with one shell. Not terribly pleasant or creative. It was so horrendous that WW-1 had the highest rate of military casualties and caused the youth of an entire generation to get wiped out, especially the French and Russians. WW2 had more people die, but less soldiers took the casualties. The mobile nature of war brought the casualties more home to the civilians instead. However, it is so forgotten. Tactically boring on the surface, the casual observer (like I was) will often overlook a lot of interesting anecdotes. Very interesting to me is the Eastern front because so much of the Russian military dogma was born there, such as at the battle of Tannenberg: ARTILLERY IS THE GOD OF WAR = 1 ARTILLERY BARREL PER METER OF FRONT. I find the German colonies and their experiences trying to play cat and mouse with the much superior Royal Navy and colonies fascinating like the battle of the Falklands where Admiral von Spee’s fleet got clobbered. Yet I also find the story of the Emden quite hilarious… how the exploits of one half obsolete piece of junk light cruiser basically panicked the entire world and stopped shipping in the Indian ocean for almost half a year to the point where cargoes were no longer insured at any price! I am a bit of a naval buff as you can see. Also very interested in the Russio-Sino-Japanese war of 1905 and the battle of Port Arthur and ensuing Tushima engagement. Did you know the only remaining pre-dreadnought in the world is the Japanese battleship Mikasa docked in Yokohama? Never saw it, but someday I will. Very interesting are a lot of Italian issues as well. Italy vs Austria. The regions of Friuli and Veneto in Italy still bear many scars. Very interesting places to visit. And let’s not forget Italian ace Francesco Baracca whose emblem was the black prancing horse on a yellow shield. He died but his mother after the war asked his former mechanic Enzo Ferrari to use that emblem on his race car so his deceased, war-hero son would be immortalized. He was DEFINITELY immortalized in a sense as the Baracca family emblem is now an Italian icon: the prancing horse. You can see the Baracca Museum in Lugo, it’s a small place but over the years has grown substantially. I could go on and on. Unfortunately most of the WW1 vets died before the world-war nostalgia mania of the last 15 years; many of the stories are dead forever. Which reminds me, I need to get my ass back to Europe. Been too long. My heart aches to be back home. But if you scratch the surface, you find a lot of interesting things.
Used to be a member of The Western Front Association and have toured many battlefields, chiefly between Verdun and Ypres. With the sad but inevitable loss of veterans the motivation to continue pilgrimage tours faded. The last known survivor of any nation who saw action on the Western Front in WW1 was Harry Patch, who died last year. He was badly wounded at Passchendaele (3rd Ypres) in 1917. Nevertheless, I made a detour to visit Vimy Ridge (again) two years ago while the year before I found the grave of George Llewelyn Davies, better known to millions of people as Peter Pan. In a sense the real Peter Pan never would grow old. He was killed at the age of 21 near the St Eloi sector in the Ypres salient in 1915 - much to the author’s great distress. He is buried in Voormezeele Enclosure N°.3 Several members of my family (including my paternal grandfather) were killed serving with the 46th (North Midland) Division on 1 July 1916 and are buried in Gommecourt Wood, New Cemetery, Foncquevillers, Pas de Calais. That opening day on the Somme, by the way, saw the greatest loss of life in the history of the British Army. If you tour WW1 battlefields and require help on any matter then sing out. If I can’t help I know more knowledgeable people who can.
I can’t, or won’t, use the word “buff”. To me that means podgy fellows playing soldier…I’ll stop, perhaps their motives are honourable, even if the appearances and actions seem a little daft. Several times a year I will read about the Great War and contemplate on the loss. It’s the only way I have to honour all those involved. I have, or had as they’re all dead now, family members involved in both the World Wars: the best that can be said is that they survived. What would the world be like now had the Great War never occurred?
If the belikaya voina (great war) had never happened, all of Europe would be speaking German, correction, would be German, because the “lesser races” would have been eliminated. Liebensraum would be attained by constantly revising the list of those unworthy to take up space. As the “final solution” was nearing completion the Poles were being queued as the next to go. Don’t think the French, British etc. would not have found their place in that queue. There have been many Wars that were a waste of good men. WWII was not one of those.
I mean WW2 was a waste because it was a huge consumption of life and resources with no real gain at the outset: just the undoing of some very serious mistakes that should have never been made. I am not talking about the Allied point of view to try and overcome fascism. I am talking about the entire war at its outset, more from the point of view of getting the tanks rolling across the borders and everything that caused. In other words, while I think that stopping fascism was a somewhat worthy pursuit, the fact that we had to stop it was already pretty awful. That it was allowed it to get so out of control that most of Europe and eastern Asia had to be razed to the ground was very wasteful. Think of it this way: would you rather expend that kind of energy un-doing an evil, or building something good? I know the former is necessary, but the latter is much, much better. WW1 on the other hand was completely unnecessary and started due to a cascade of alliances. History is written by the victors, the Allies were a bunch of bastards. Just read about what the French and British did in Africa or the Americans did during the Philippine-American war (almost never mentioned in the history books because it freaks Americans out that their country could do such acts of horror). Something like 1/8th of the civilian of the population was butchered by the Americans in the Philippines, and millions of Africans with no relation to the silly conflict were enslaved and subsequently murdered by their European “masters”. The Germans in WW1 were no more imperialistic nor racist than the Allies in that respect. And while in WW2 using the eyes of the victors “the allies”, it is easier to at least conjure a “good guy”, during the Great War (WW1) it was truly meaningless and… FUBAR. Trust me, there is NO such thing as a just or good war. Better to avoid them and steer clear of mass destruction. Peace is MUCH more enjoyable and profitable for all. But sometimes if you need to keep the peace with nations that have “nothing to lose” like the Germans in the 1930’s, you must prepare for war. Simply the ability to threaten, pre-empt and overwhelm without firing a single shot can be enough to dissuade madmen because there is only one thing they understand: force. This is something the current administration seems to have forgotten.
I’ve been always interested in The Great War and period before it la belle epoque, or the Old Europe, ca. 1890-14 and read about it whatever I could find and seen battlefields in Belgium and visited Verdun in France(that place really takes your breath away). And the Great War was fought for a just cause, freedom of small nations, namely Belgium and Serbia, who where invaded by bullying big neighbours. Fair play for Entente! Because of Great War Ireland, Poland and many other European countries got their independence in the end. Tom Stoppard wrote a good play about this, Travesties, I think. Quite recent books about war come to my mind; The Last Post and Rape of Belgium: German Atrocities 1914 and History of Denial from few years back. President McAleese actually visited Gallipoli in Turkey short time ago to pay the nation’s respect to those who fell there.
I’ve always been facinated with the 3rd Reich.
I was alive during WWII so I have a different perspective than many. As you say WWI was a cascade of alliances, the murder of the Arch Duke Ferdinand was just the fuse which set it off. Each side was attempting to threaten, pre-empt and overwhelm the other, thus deploying so the other side would be intimidated. Someone called the bluff. Chamberlain, having learned the lessons of the last war decided to use diplomacy and appeasement. That didn’t work either. When Hitler rolled into the Czech lands, the Alllies involvement in the war became inevitable. There was no escaping it short of unconditional surrender of at least the continent. Britain had the opportunity after the blitz of making a separate peace and leaving the continent to it’s fate, but that didn’t work out so well for Stalin, did it? We did the honorable and, more importantly, the smart thing.
Poland and Hungary took part in Munich conspiracy with German side and invaded Slovakia in 1938. Chamberlain is unfairly blamed for everything still, I think he did what was possible under circumstances which was the fact Europe was run by gangsters and whores at the time.
Nachman, by “Great War” I was referring to the First; I hope I didn’t cause upset to you. No First World War, very likely no USSR as we knew it, and no Nazism.
@AllanH - Sorry, but this is entirely wrong. Poland didn´t side up with Germany at all and Slovakia wasn´t invaded, they separated (with German support) from the Czechs, which were swallowed by the German gangsters. Hungary wasn´t involved in -at least- this crime. Hungary took part of the Italian/German invasion of Yugoslavia, just a few months after signing the “Eternal peace” treaty. Well, at least our foreign minister immediately shot himself after the war declaration. At least.
@Red Star Poland and Hungary annexed Slovakian territory practically by force and that’s invasion in my books. These landgrabs where co-ordinated with Germany. Poland apologized it’s actions some time ago. I know about post-Versailles border disputes between Slovakia and poland and Hungary and Europe was full of similar situations. Well, something similar happened in 1968 when Warsaw Pact nations decided to “save” socialism, Poland was very keen to keep the alliance together at time because Germany hadn’t recognized Poland’s sovereignty in post-war borders.
@AllanH - Sorry, I don´t have a clue what you´re talking about. Which territory should Poland have received? The returned territory, grabbed after WW1 was declared in the Vienna Award and Germany didn´t even have to push too hard, as the Slovakian regime was a puppet state of theirs by that time. Oops, should have checked it in the first place. Indeed Poland also received a tiny spot. Never heard of this before, my fault.
Alcyon, I guess they changed the terminology. When I was at university they called WWI “The War to end all Wars”, but it didn’t. I assumed “The Great War” was WWII because I was a Soviet specialist, and that is what WWII is called in Russian.
@Red Star Yes, it was a tiny spot, but as principle it was of huge importance: dismantling post-Versailles Europe. Germany didn’t do that alone and there weren’t clean hands in Europe.
@Red Star: Beszél magyarul? (In case the answer is igen, be aware that my magyar is absolutely shitty to the point of being practically nonexistent 
Just sheer curiosity…