Yes, there are quite a few “toast” posts already, but I’m mostly looking for current info. So, with the rapidly changing landscape of snuff, I’m a little late to the game on the toast varieties of Samuel Gawith Irish D Light and Gawith Hoggarth Irish D, (and perhaps WoS 21, which was considered mildly toasted) as they are no longer available. (Did these just disappear overnight or was there at least some sort of warning? Also, with the popularity of HDT/Irish 22, why were these discontinued? I would think every manufacturer would want at least one toast in their lineup. I had read McChrystal’s was considering releasing a toast around 10 years ago, but as far as I know this never happened.)
As the title of the post states, I’m interested only in plain toasts, so no madras, almond, lime, etc. Here is what I’ve found currently available in mid-2024:
F&T High Dry T (formerly High Dry Toast)
WoS Irish No. 22 (formerly Irish High Toast 22)
Turmeaus Luck O’ the Irish (Isn’t this just rebranded WoS Irish 22?)
Toque Natural Toast
Viking Blonde (lots of reviews stay this is very toast-like)
FUBAR Toasted
Dr. Rumney’s Brown (some speculation that this may be a mix of WoS Plain + Irish 22)
SWS Lundy Foot
SWS Havana Toast
Am I missing any that are still out there for sale? I’ve only experienced the King and Queen at this point (HDT and Irish 22), so I’m looking for comparisons, reviews, general thoughts. I may end up trying out the Viking and Rumney’s, I’m just unsure about the others. Beyond numbers 1 and 2, are the rest just pale imitations or is there worthwhile nuance to be found?
As an aside, what tobaccos make the best toasts and should they consist of stems only or some mixture of leaf and stem - what’s the consensus from those in the know?
SG and GH Ds were made on stem base. Lundy - on lamina. HDT and 22 are heavy on stem.
I’m not sure if WoS still make their HDT and from African tobaccos, but a while ago they were described as follows:
F&T High Dry Toast “is made from Zimbabwean Flue Cured Stem, Dark Fired Leaf & Sun Cured Leaf”, but Irish No. 22 is “a blend of **dark fired tobacco and stem” / “has a natural tobacco flavour drawn from Zimbabwe, Burley, Malawi and flue cured tobaccos”.
So, get your hands on some flue cured Virginia, Burley, fire cured Kentucky, fire cured Virginia and sun cured Virginia or strong sun cured oriental (if you can find Samsoun or Trabzon in the US). And DO ADD the stem (midrib), at least 1/2 of total blend, if you want it to be HDT-like. Do add ammonium carbonate (0.5% by weight), calcium hydroxide (0.5%) and a splash of water (about 10-12%). If you want it stronger, top it with 2–4% sodium carbonate. Don’t add salt. Don’t actually toast it, just dry it to bone in a warm oven before milling. Smokiness comes from the fire cured component. Nuttiness and butter notes - from stem.
Samuel Gawith’s accounts were made up until the 30th September and the company was dissolved on 21 November 2017 after 225 years of trading.
From 2016 the Tobacco Products Directive 2 (TPD2) forbids the use of ‘characterising flavours’ in the names of tobacco products. High Dry Toast, for example, is now High Dry T.
Wilson’s Irish No.22 is similar to Samuel Gawith’s Irish ‘D’ Original but nothing quite compares with Irish ‘D’ Light, no longer made, sadly. The letter ‘D’ refers to dry.
Traditionally, High Dried snuffs – toasted or not - used only the stalk and midrib but that has changed as Volunge has pointed out. The description he quotes no longer appears on the website.
A recipe in my possession calls for one part ‘Rutter’s Welch’ to five parts ‘P & J’ (after Polhill and Jones).Rutter’s Welch was bought from the manufacturer so sadly I don’t know the composition. ‘P & J’ uses 1120 lbs Virginia Stalk and 1792 lbs Rich Virginia Leaf, all liquored in a solution of Peal Ash and Lime.
Dr Rumney Brown is squarely a general purpose plain .
Viking Blonde does give me toasty vibes . It’s fine ground , a little dry , with a simple moreish scent .
You do seem to be stuck with the big 2 these days ’ 22 and HDT . Near everything on your list is likely derived from them .
Coincidentally , I had some Irish ‘D’ Light yesterday and wondered whether GH were ever going to bother re-registering a toast for sale . From an enthusiasts perspective , it looks like there is a gap in the market . However I do remember the minority toasts sitting unloved on the shelf when the TPD hammer came down . I was guilty of it too . There were all kinds of British naturals I just never got round to : saw them more as a confusing inconvenience than a resource .
We did have plenty of warning about the Tobacco Products Directive . However I don’t think many of us accurately assessed the scope of the changes .
Frankly I was a fucking idiot . I bought plenty of flavours , lots of Indian because Mr Snuff was in real trouble too , but softpedaled the British plains thinking they would mostly still be easily available . Ended up with cupboards full of snuffs I can still purchase and a scant few tins of the stuff that I can’t .
Loving the recipes, histories & opinions. I should just be satisfied with what we’ve currently got, we really are still spoiled for choice…if not as spoiled.
I continued obtaining Samuel Gawith snuffs from Simon Jackson for some time after 2017 - blissfully unaware that production had ceased.
No other manufacturer made such a variety of snuff from the super-fine and bone-dry ‘Irish ‘D’ Light’ to the very coarse and moist ‘Black Rappee’.
They were of course also known for their flake, plug and twist smoking tobaccos. In this context, there is an interesting article written for “Pfeife und Tabak” by a Swiss visitor, Lothar Winands, about his Kendal trip. It’s in German but I expect it can be translated.
GH bringing back some super dark rappee under the SG banner is probably more likely than a toast in the current market . New recipe Brunswick has been a bit of a success story for Sharrow , wearing a bunch of different labels.
Thinking on it , I suppose Yellow Lily Natural qualifies as a lone Indian entrant ? It’s plenty of stem , dry and fine , buttery for days . Not sure I’d recommend it though , as anything other than a curiosity . Mr Snuff doesn’t seem to stock it anymore . Consider that a bullet dodged @ClarkNova
A curse on this thread ! I just nipped into my day stash to refill a tapbox and spotted Yellow Lily Natural out of the corner of my eye . 15 minutes later ,I’ve had Yellow Lily , White Elephant , Irish 22 then drifted into SP corner and started on the Tom Buck .
My toast related takeaway was that Irish 22 is all the straight toast I’ll ever need . Would love to have more available as flavours for the mixing bowl though .
Thanks for the article @PhilipS2. The old firefox browser had no trouble with the translation. A few of the photos no longer load, but what fantastic documentation! And that working, scale model snuff mill is too fucking cool.
@Pikey I’m unfamiliar with the Yellow Lily Natural, but I was wondering about the LA Natural on the Indian side of things. Isn’t that one made with Rustica alone? The FUBAR Toasted is a mix of Chopadia and Oriental tobaccos, so that could make for rather a different take on a toast, maybe?
I have to admit, I’m enjoying the 22 just a hair better than the HDT, but that could be because the HDT was from a taptin. The question is: Will a toast really lose much being in a taptin?
Checking the ingredients list, it seems the base for HDT is also the base for Old Paris (which makes sense), as well as Morlaix (never tried) and Morocco (disco’d). Of course the source for this info is outdated and they may have changed the recipe at this point. @volunge mentioned that most of the flavor notes come from the cure of the tobaccos, I just wonder if they “toast” it all. Does the Morlaix have any toastiness to it? Just curious.
HDT is and has been my go to toast for decades, Fresh from the tub its dry as it gets but full of flavour, however in a wilsons tin ( or tap tin -specualton never purchased anything so small) it does mellow slightly , the burn mellows a bit and scent does slightly drop off, That said it levels off and is still useable after months.
I havn’t tried 22 in years and need to revist it but keep forgetting to add to orders.
The SWS havana also looks intresting but at that price its offputting as i’m sure i woud like it and it could become an expensive habit.
Edit : Morlaix yes it does but its drowned out by the flavouring
Morlaix smells like the devil’s washing up water . But some people love it . I don’t pick up any tobacco getting past that scent
Honestly I never even considered that Fubar Toasted might actually contain a toast . The Dholakia Madras Toast I had was neither a madras nor a toast . Nice snuff though .
I think a tub might just be in the cards for the next order. I had heard the same about the unparalled freshness that one can only experience from a fat drum and not just re: toasts!
Is the snuff bagged in the tub? Or is the tub vacuum sealed in some way?
Not bagged in the drum. The tub has a really good seal though with a nice strong airtight thread on it that does take a bit of force to break the seal initially and allows you to crank down on when closing. From the factory the drums come in a vacum sealed platic wrap.
IMO the freshness of wilsons / f&t / viking in tubs is far superior to anything you get from there crappy tins.
Yeah, I figured as much with the Morlaix. F&T have a reputation for floral, perfumey, baby powder scents. The Macouba looks like the same base too and I like everything in there with the exception of rose, which I’ve heard is quite abundant. The only other F&T I’ve tried is Santo Domingo - again another taptin (believe me I’ve learned my lesson there). It is supposed to be slightly moist at least, no? This is bone dry and quite coarse with some hard boulders that just shoot down the throat. Even tried making it more uniform by grinding. Still something off. If they just made the Santo Domingo on the toast base…now we’re talking, but that’s for another discussion.
Right on, thanks! Not to mention a hell of a lot cheaper per gram. I think the math on Viking Blonde is that your paying a 1/3 (for the 500g tub) of what you’d be paying if you bought the equivalent in 20g tins. Same for Wilsons. F&T is a bit more, but not drastically.
My snuff buddies are mad for Santo Domingo right now . All that dark stuff is a mystery to me . I take it : I don’t usually ‘get’ it . Definitely a candidate for a rebuy in a proper tin though .
the 259g & 500g tubs are the same. The 100g viking ones are a push fit lid though not screw on.
Note : To ensure the longevity of opened tubs i use gorilla tape around the lid as an extra precaution.
Viking Scotch - has a toasty aspect to it. But not in the traditional sense as it a dark snuff mixed with toasted burley and is a medium grind.
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