Yes, there are quite a few “toast” posts already, but I’m mostly looking for current info. So, with the rapidly changing landscape of snuff, I’m a little late to the game on the toast varieties of Samuel Gawith Irish D Light and Gawith Hoggarth Irish D, (and perhaps WoS 21, which was considered mildly toasted) as they are no longer available. (Did these just disappear overnight or was there at least some sort of warning? Also, with the popularity of HDT/Irish 22, why were these discontinued? I would think every manufacturer would want at least one toast in their lineup. I had read McChrystal’s was considering releasing a toast around 10 years ago, but as far as I know this never happened.)

As the title of the post states, I’m interested only in plain toasts, so no madras, almond, lime, etc. Here is what I’ve found currently available in mid-2024:

1. F&T High Dry T (formerly High Dry Toast)
2. WoS Irish No. 22 (formerly Irish High Toast 22)
3. Turmeaus Luck O’ the Irish (Isn’t this just rebranded WoS Irish 22?)
4. Toque Natural Toast
5. Viking Blonde (lots of reviews stay this is very toast-like)
6. FUBAR Toasted
7. Dr. Rumney’s Brown (some speculation that this may be a mix of WoS Plain + Irish 22)
8. SWS Lundy Foot
9. SWS Havana Toast

Am I missing any that are still out there for sale? I’ve only experienced the King and Queen at this point (HDT and Irish 22), so I’m looking for comparisons, reviews, general thoughts. I may end up trying out the Viking and Rumney’s, I’m just unsure about the others. Beyond numbers 1 and 2, are the rest just pale imitations or is there worthwhile nuance to be found?

As an aside, what tobaccos make the best toasts and should they consist of stems only or some mixture of leaf and stem - what’s the consensus from those in the know?

Luck O’ indeed is rebranded #22.

SG and GH Ds were made on stem base. Lundy - on lamina. HDT and 22 are heavy on stem.

I’m not sure if WoS still make their HDT and from African tobaccos, but a while ago they were described as follows:
F&T High Dry Toast “is made from Zimbabwean Flue Cured Stem, Dark Fired Leaf & Sun Cured Leaf”, but Irish No. 22 is “a blend of **dark fired tobacco and stem” / “has a natural tobacco flavour drawn from Zimbabwe, Burley, Malawi and flue cured tobaccos”.

So, get your hands on some flue cured Virginia, Burley, fire cured Kentucky, fire cured Virginia and sun cured Virginia or strong sun cured oriental (if you can find Samsoun or Trabzon in the US). And DO ADD the stem (midrib), at least 1/2 of total blend, if you want it to be HDT-like. Do add ammonium carbonate (0.5% by weight), calcium hydroxide (0.5%) and a splash of water (about 10-12%). If you want it stronger, top it with 2–4% sodium carbonate. Don’t add salt. Don’t actually toast it, just dry it to bone in a warm oven before milling. Smokiness comes from the fire cured component. Nuttiness and butter notes - from stem.

Samuel Gawith’s accounts were made up until the 30th September and the company was dissolved on 21 November 2017 after 225 years of trading.

From 2016 the Tobacco Products Directive 2 (TPD2) forbids the use of ‘characterising flavours’ in the names of tobacco products. High Dry Toast, for example, is now High Dry T.

Wilson’s Irish No.22 is similar to Samuel Gawith’s Irish ‘D’ Original but nothing quite compares with Irish ‘D’ Light, no longer made, sadly. The letter ‘D’ refers to dry.

Traditionally, High Dried snuffs – toasted or not - used only the stalk and midrib but that has changed as Volunge has pointed out. The description he quotes no longer appears on the website.

A recipe in my possession calls for one part ‘Rutter’s Welch’ to five parts ‘P & J’ (after Polhill and Jones).Rutter’s Welch was bought from the manufacturer so sadly I don’t know the composition. ‘P & J’ uses 1120 lbs Virginia Stalk and 1792 lbs Rich Virginia Leaf, all liquored in a solution of Peal Ash and Lime.

Dr Rumney Brown is squarely a general purpose plain .

Viking Blonde does give me toasty vibes . It’s fine ground , a little dry , with a simple moreish scent .

You do seem to be stuck with the big 2 these days ’ 22 and HDT . Near everything on your list is likely derived from them .

Coincidentally , I had some Irish ‘D’ Light yesterday and wondered whether GH were ever going to bother re-registering a toast for sale . From an enthusiasts perspective , it looks like there is a gap in the market . However I do remember the minority toasts sitting unloved on the shelf when the TPD hammer came down . I was guilty of it too . There were all kinds of British naturals I just never got round to : saw them more as a confusing inconvenience than a resource .

We did have plenty of warning about the Tobacco Products Directive . However I don’t think many of us accurately assessed the scope of the changes .
Frankly I was a fucking idiot . I bought plenty of flavours , lots of Indian because Mr Snuff was in real trouble too , but softpedaled the British plains thinking they would mostly still be easily available . Ended up with cupboards full of snuffs I can still purchase and a scant few tins of the stuff that I can’t .

Thanks! @volunge , @PhilipS2, @Pikey All superb info!

Loving the recipes, histories & opinions. I should just be satisfied with what we’ve currently got, we really are still spoiled for choice…if not as spoiled.

I continued obtaining Samuel Gawith snuffs from Simon Jackson for some time after 2017 - blissfully unaware that production had ceased.
No other manufacturer made such a variety of snuff from the super-fine and bone-dry ‘Irish ‘D’ Light’ to the very coarse and moist ‘Black Rappee’.
They were of course also known for their flake, plug and twist smoking tobaccos. In this context, there is an interesting article written for “Pfeife und Tabak” by a Swiss visitor, Lothar Winands, about his Kendal trip. It’s in German but I expect it can be translated.

http://www.pfeife-tabak.de/Artikel/Reiseberichte/Gawith/gawith.html

The ‘scary’ picture of Mrs. Dakeyne Cannon holding the ram’s head looks like something from the final reel of a Hammer horror movie.

GH bringing back some super dark rappee under the SG banner is probably more likely than a toast in the current market . New recipe Brunswick has been a bit of a success story for Sharrow , wearing a bunch of different labels.

Thinking on it , I suppose Yellow Lily Natural qualifies as a lone Indian entrant ? It’s plenty of stem , dry and fine , buttery for days . Not sure I’d recommend it though , as anything other than a curiosity . Mr Snuff doesn’t seem to stock it anymore . Consider that a bullet dodged @ClarkNova

A curse on this thread ! I just nipped into my day stash to refill a tapbox and spotted Yellow Lily Natural out of the corner of my eye . 15 minutes later ,I’ve had Yellow Lily , White Elephant , Irish 22 then drifted into SP corner and started on the Tom Buck .

My toast related takeaway was that Irish 22 is all the straight toast I’ll ever need . Would love to have more available as flavours for the mixing bowl though .

Thanks for the article @PhilipS2. The old firefox browser had no trouble with the translation. A few of the photos no longer load, but what fantastic documentation! And that working, scale model snuff mill is too fucking cool.

@Pikey I’m unfamiliar with the Yellow Lily Natural, but I was wondering about the LA Natural on the Indian side of things. Isn’t that one made with Rustica alone? The FUBAR Toasted is a mix of Chopadia and Oriental tobaccos, so that could make for rather a different take on a toast, maybe?

I have to admit, I’m enjoying the 22 just a hair better than the HDT, but that could be because the HDT was from a taptin. The question is: Will a toast really lose much being in a taptin?

Checking the ingredients list, it seems the base for HDT is also the base for Old Paris (which makes sense), as well as Morlaix (never tried) and Morocco (disco’d). Of course the source for this info is outdated and they may have changed the recipe at this point.
@volunge mentioned that most of the flavor notes come from the cure of the tobaccos, I just wonder if they “toast” it all. Does the Morlaix have any toastiness to it? Just curious.

mmm toast

HDT is and has been my go to toast for decades, Fresh from the tub its dry as it gets but full of flavour, however in a wilsons tin ( or tap tin -specualton never purchased anything so small) it does mellow slightly , the burn mellows a bit and scent does slightly drop off, That said it levels off and is still useable after months.

I havn’t tried 22 in years and need to revist it but keep forgetting to add to orders.
The SWS havana also looks intresting but at that price its offputting as i’m sure i woud like it and it could become an expensive habit.

Edit : Morlaix yes it does but its drowned out by the flavouring

Morlaix smells like the devil’s washing up water . But some people love it . I don’t pick up any tobacco getting past that scent

Honestly I never even considered that Fubar Toasted might actually contain a toast . The Dholakia Madras Toast I had was neither a madras nor a toast . Nice snuff though .

I think a tub might just be in the cards for the next order. I had heard the same about the unparalled freshness that one can only experience from a fat drum and not just re: toasts!

Is the snuff bagged in the tub? Or is the tub vacuum sealed in some way?

Not bagged in the drum. The tub has a really good seal though with a nice strong airtight thread on it that does take a bit of force to break the seal initially and allows you to crank down on when closing. From the factory the drums come in a vacum sealed platic wrap.

IMO the freshness of wilsons / f&t / viking in tubs is far superior to anything you get from there crappy tins.

Yeah, I figured as much with the Morlaix. F&T have a reputation for floral, perfumey, baby powder scents. The Macouba looks like the same base too and I like everything in there with the exception of rose, which I’ve heard is quite abundant. The only other F&T I’ve tried is Santo Domingo - again another taptin (believe me I’ve learned my lesson there). It is supposed to be slightly moist at least, no? This is bone dry and quite coarse with some hard boulders that just shoot down the throat. Even tried making it more uniform by grinding. Still something off. If they just made the Santo Domingo on the toast base…now we’re talking, but that’s for another discussion.

Right on, thanks! Not to mention a hell of a lot cheaper per gram. I think the math on Viking Blonde is that your paying a 1/3 (for the 500g tub) of what you’d be paying if you bought the equivalent in 20g tins. Same for Wilsons. F&T is a bit more, but not drastically.

My snuff buddies are mad for Santo Domingo right now . All that dark stuff is a mystery to me . I take it : I don’t usually ‘get’ it . Definitely a candidate for a rebuy in a proper tin though .

the 259g & 500g tubs are the same. The 100g viking ones are a push fit lid though not screw on.
Note : To ensure the longevity of opened tubs i use gorilla tape around the lid as an extra precaution.

Viking Scotch - has a toasty aspect to it. But not in the traditional sense as it a dark snuff mixed with toasted burley and is a medium grind.

Very good to know about the tubs. I do the same with electrical tape on my tins, especially mentholated or heavily scented varieties. But I may just be pissing in the wind.

Thanks for the info on the Viking Scotch as well. I had just researched that one because the “Scotch” caught my eye, but in general, I don’t think my body chemistry melds well with the darks.

Here is link to Tony B****’s website. He and his pals from Hull were regular posters here but I’ve not seen any of them for at least ten years.

It’s a well-known article describing all the genuine Fribourg & Treyer snuffs which were available in the 1960s – so apologies if you already have it.

Their version of Morlaix owes absolutely nothing to the genuine tabac à priser which was very pungent, unscented, coarse, dark brown and sold in waxed paper parcels all over France. There was only one Morlaix and that was the one made at the Royal Factory at Morlaix.in Brittany. Production ceased in 2004 which was a blow.

One man’s snuff is another man’s poison but I expect some here (including me) would agree with Griff’s memorable observation (and my favourite quote): ‘Many perfumed snuffs are redolent of a whore’s reticule’. No one on Graeme’s old snuff forum had the temerity to ask if he spoke from experience.

I’m just prejudiced and set in my ways so there is no reason not to try the fake Morlaix.

Buying drums is certainly the cheapest way of procuring quality snuff that keeps. I read somewhere that 20 gram tins are good for six months.
If you are unaware, all Wilsons products come with a date stamp. The first four digits refer to the month and year. 1737 is November 2021, 1738 is December 2021 and so on. The next two digits refer to the day and the letter to whether it was a morning or afternoon shift.

Fan-damn-tastic! @PhilipS2 I had not seen this one.

You had me spitting out my drink with that quote - Now you’ve got me intrigued. I seem to recall Uncle Squinty saying the same thing about an Indian snuff, but I can’t quite recall which one at the moment. Maybe most of them.

Very useful. Not long ago, I came across a guide on decoding similarly convoluted date codes on Samuel Gawith products.

The FUBAR Toasted I tried was medium dark fine grain, and very very MOIST and smelled of peanuts and the scent was cloying. I ended up throwing it out. IMO not a traditional “toast”, whatever that means. I primarily take HDT and Irish 22

thanks, one of the few reviews of that one out there. i’ll skip it!

Only recently discovered that McChrystal’s, Jaxons (via McChrystal’s) and Toque all source their base flour from Wilsons of Sharrow - which may explain why WoS seriously downsized their offerings some years back. So - for those who’ve tried both - is Toque Natural Toast just rebranded Irish 22 or does Toque add something unique / toast a different base? I’d also like to check out their Silver Dollar Scotch. I know it’s not like an American Scotch, but the “hint of walnut oil and cedar” has me intrigued. Or is this one too, just a fleeting hint of something on an otherwise boring base?

To the best of my knowledge, both McChrystals and Toque only buy base flour from Wilsons and do their own blending, scenting and packaging. I also believe Jaxons and Viking leave Wilsons as finished products, but can not state this definitively - others will probably be able to confirm or correct the above.

As for the reduction in Wilson’s range, I believe this was a result of the notification process legislated as part of the EU’s Tobacco Products Directive II.

I finally remembered to add a tin of Irish No 22 into a order.
Got it to compare with HDT, wanted to know why i dismissed it way back when and opted for HDT in bulk.
Side by side they are so similar, The HDT is slightly more toasted where as the less toasty 22 reveals more of the base tobacco. Same grind same dryness.

FUBAR Toasted - Well this isn’t a toast. It’s just a superfine but not dry plain snuff, no burn from this either It’s very nice but i was expecting it to blow my head of and it doesn’t its comparable to WOS plain without the hay.

Recently acquired an unopened, classic medium tin (looks like an aluminum Rx bottle) of HDT that was manufactured in 2018. Comparing it to my 2023 manufactured tap tin, now decanted, there’s quite the difference. The “nuttiness” I’d often heard about - but never really experienced - was finally there! Definitely the most dominant tin note. Almost a toasted, chocolate-type nuttiness, hard to compare to anything else really. Muy bueno!

Comparing that to my beloved Irish 22, it’s much more apparent that (to me, at least) the HDT is more “nutty”, where the Irish is more “buttery”. Both are deliciously different, yet similar.

I had assumed that the HDT might have lost a little something just by being in the tap tin, but figured that as it’s dry as a bone, whatever loss would be minimal. Not quite. A greater loss of “flavor” than expected.

Now, I’m looking forward to buying fresh tubs of each for further comparison…

Sounds like you got a tub from a dud stock. Stale snuff, degassed.

Fresh Fubar Toasted is extra strong snuff with a badass burn and emits loads of ammonia. It used to be among my favourite strong snuffs before I stumbled upon stale stock. Cheese and chalk difference, pal.

LA natural is rustica, very similar to Cheetah but easier to take. Not so fine and dry. It seems to have a bit of Madras MG mixed in and the tin claims it’s a Madras Snuff.

I would not categorize it as a toast in the vein of HDT, 22, Lundy Foot. The scent is much different and more like an Indian White.

I just got the Fubar Toasted Snuff from the recent sale, Im going to bump it before I finish this reply,ok, I got four 25g tin’ubs, anyways I gave one away with the (DHOLAKIA Bohica, which at best, is a practical joke, Ha Ha). I just tried a bump of the Fubar Toasted Snuff, it has a little burn, but I’m not real impressed with the flavors. I do like the Fubar grunt, much, much more. I am a true Toast fan, and have got HDT in it’s 500gram tub. I really like a fresh HDT.
I’m not sure if Fubars burn is from chilli powder or the tobacco flour, Ha Ha. Fubar toast does seem to address the ole’ nicotine crave’ none the less, credit is as credits due. I must say is is growing on me a little, the burn does seem to have a capsaicin component to it.
When I purchased the DHOLAKIA Bohica, I didn’t read the description, as I bought alot of the different DHOLAKIA and fubar tins for a song.
Anyways I luckily only bumped the bohica on one side, just one bump, and this burn is lasting and lasting, even intensifying. I said this snuff appears to have capsaicin in it, sure enouf, the description on old google claimed it had chilli powder.
I could had manned up, but the flavor wasn’t worth the burn- I actually got out the neti-pot, “that day must have been a blue moon”. Well up untill I gave away the bohica I only did that one bump. Just becouse I can handle the heat, or eat the heat. That simply does not mean I intend to insufflate chilli powder into my nose. So, I couldn’t just give away the bohica, becouse I don’t want to do a dis-service to the dry snuff following.
I also threw in 25grams of Fubar Toasted Snuff, becouse I had ×4-25’s and didn’t wanna give away one of the ones I preferred, with the terrible chilli powder snuff, the (Fubar/BOHICA)
DHOLAKIA African is a camphor snuff, now that’s a nice one, sometimes you get a taste of birch, sometimes a taste of teaberry. You see, I can’t review snuffs becouse my palette is so subjective. One day I will hate a snuff and a few days later I can say, “that’s not so bad”, then a few after that I can’t say “I kinda like that,” so I will say “it kinda grows on you!”
So please, take my opinion on flavor with a grain of salt or maybe a grain of camphor?, my palette is all over the place, and depends on what frames the experience, and what was paired that particular day with it.