I just opened a new 1 oz tin of F&T Princes. There are all sorts of white flakes inside and the inside and outside of the tin on the chrome threads is all either corroded or crystallised with hard, snot-like flakes. Is this ruined? I seem to remember someone saying to take wet snuffs out of the F&T tins straightaway but I don’t have anything to put this in and I don’t know how to get the flakes out. I’ve taken out the big pieces with a pipe tool spoon. Small shiny bits either silver or white remain, they’re too small to remove. What should I do? Thanks.

I can’t help you with the white flakes in your F & T Princes, I’ve never ever found any in mine. As to why anyone would want to decant the snuff out of the F & t tubes is beyond me. They and the Toque tins are the best airtight containers the snuff comes in.

They are great tins but I’ve read the porcelain flakes off from the wet snuffs. Princes is very moist and maybe this is what happened. I hope someone knows what to do.

I noticed something like this in a tin of Princes I got about a year ago. I thought they were sugar crystals. you get that on some pipe tobaccos too. But I’m not sure. Maybe better look again, I haven’t taken any Princes in a long long time.

I think the first thing is not to use it, the second is to send it back. Whatever snuff comes in should be fine to store it in and you shouldn’t have to decant, moist or not, and F and T tubes are second to none and don’t flake. The simple fact is that the flakes shouldn’t be there and therfore could be any kind of contaminant. New Princes definately doesn’t have this in it. Although there is a good chance the flakes are harmless - oxidised flavouring, salt or the like - there is also a chance that they are harmful so I advise contacting Wilsons and letting them know and taking it from there. Ive used FandT on and off for about 25 years and never had this, so play safe.

Maybe It’s Cocaine

Yuck.

Maybe its whats known as ‘bloom’ that cigars are known for getting. Caused by the oils in the tobacco rising to the surface as a result of aging? The bloom is white dust that accumulates on top of the tobacco. If allowed to sit & bond together for an extended period of time, then the can is agitated as it would by being in the mail, they could break apart into flakes. Now if it is bloom, it is harmless. I’ve had fresh Princes & it never had this.

I wouldn’t mind snuffing some 'baccy bloom. I guess that would be a reason to keep snuff in a humidified environment. I bet some of us would pay top dollar for some pure bloom snuff. Someone talk to the cigar aficionados to see if this can be arranged.

Thanks guys. I thought about bloom but it doesn’t look like any bloom I’ve seen on cigars or pipe tobacco. I’ll try to get a pic as soon as I can and post it so you can see what I’m talking about. It’s rock hard and flakes and chips off more like quartz.

You got to remember, if this is the snuff from p&c.com, chances are its been sitting for many years. That would give something a chance to really build up & solidify like a stalactite.

LOL maybe it’s coal that turned into diamonds over the past few million years…

LOL, one way to find out. Rub a flake on the window & see if it scratches the glass.

Damn now I need to replace my office window! My boss will not be happy

You can just polish the scratch out. Your boss will never know. Or you could blame it on global warming.

I have a once oz tin of Princes, and it has small white particles, which I took for tobacco bloom. I got this tin about a year ago.

Guys I was joking about scratching the window playing along with Trout. Yeah it’s not very pleasant thinking about snuffing metal shards. I will try to get a closeup pic in the next day or two. If the flakes were only in the snuff I wouldn’t be so concerned but the threads are covered with this corrosion. It’s like a car battery terminal that’s corroded.

yucky o.k sounds norhing like the flakes I’ve seen. Which where more crytaline and rainbowish actualy

sounds kind of like aluminum oxide (the byproduct of aluminum corrosion). do they make their containers out of aluminum?

Seems so. They seems very aluminumy.

sounds kind of like aluminum oxide (the byproduct of aluminum corrosion). do they make their containers out of aluminum?

Or he’s changing a diaper at the same time he’s typing.

No, I’m answering things on my new smartphone and it keeps double posting these things. Is that what you’re talking about or did I put my foot in my mouth some other way?

No, just the double posts.

I got this new free Motorola Q9h to test for a year and I’ve been trying out the web browser, but it always double posts any replies I post to snuffhouse. I’ll try to figure out what’s going on.

Here are 3 pics. You can see the flakes whatever they are and also how it got into the snuff.

dear god man, i wouldn’t use that snuff based on the condition of the tin alone. the threads look like they’ve got something growing on them.

Thanks guys, I’ll email Wilson’s tomorrow and see what they have to say. All my other F&T are clean and dry. Don’t know what happened with this one. LOL I told you it was bad!

Be sure to add the pictures in the email. Also let them know where you bought it. Maybe they will make it right with you? From the looks of it, I would say the lid wasn’t very tight against the seal during its storage. Unless they accidentally spilled the tin before mailing it, & instead of replacing it they just swept it off of the floor along with muffin crumbs, finger nail clippings & laughing the whole time.

that is gross. not the chips I thought you where talking about. I’ve noticed that in princes tins there where flakes that looked like crystals and actualy had a very plesant scent to them. They where somewhat whitish not bone white. Definatly looks like corrosion to me. maybe something in the snuff reacts to the metal after a time.

Sent this morning. Let’s see what they say. LOL Trout, everybody knows nobody sweeps the floor It actually looks more like a goldsmith blew a nose full of cyanide all over it!

MMMMMMM cyanide. All it needs now is to be infused with vapor of mercury.

Hay it does look like the crystals that form on aluminum from cyanide gas. I used to see this a lot on aluminum parts on industrial equipment used in aluminum plants. I can’t see that they would use cyanide in a tobacco packaging plant.

Maybe the prince it’s named after was trying to build an immunuty to diffrent poisons.

Apparently there was a goldsmith visiting doing some gold inlay for snuffboxes in the factory, and at the same time there was a tradesman putting in a set of mercury vapor lamps to light up the work area. Anyway after doing a whole tin of HDT the mercury vapor started getting to the goldsmith and he finally couldn’t hold it in anymore so he blew his nose all over some tins of Princes waiting to go out…and this, combined with the mercury vapor from the new lamps and the cyanide from the gold smelting was enough to cause the problem. I was one of the unlucky ones who got a tin from this batch. In all seriousness not making too much progress here. Anybody in good with Wilson’s?

Ask for Debbie!

Ring the sales team as opposed to emailing them, the details and numbers are on the web site

Of course by this time on a Friday afternoon they’re probably all in that pub on Eccleshall Road…

This is a small family run business in Yorkshire. They are working on it, just don’t expect a reply until they know what is going on

Lol Tony there’s plenty to choose from in that area if memory serves and a casino too as well as the one near the dogtrack. Stefan

Oh yes, Stefan, definitely good pub crawling country around there. Not that I know it well. My Sheffield relatives are from Handsworth - Sean Bean country. They were mostly snuff using miners when there were still coal mines around there. In fact my great-grandfather was the chairman of Handsworth Working Men’s Club for years.

Right after my first email I received an answer saying they wouldn’t let a tin looking like that leave their premises and asking if I had contacted Mars to ask about it. I guess they didn’t read my letter too thoroughly as I said where I bought the snuff from and it wasn’t Mars. So I answered saying that I ordered from shop such and such and since they (Wilson’s) are much closer to me than this shop and since I thought they would want to know about it, I emailed them with the pictures. That was early in the afternoon Thursday. Haven’t heard anything since. Pretty disappointing, but that’s the world these days.

Really? Seriously, how much would it cost them to send you a replacement tin gratis?

That’s what I thought. Goodwill is worth alot and not so hard to aquire…

wow, that looks rank. I have an old snuff by post order form here it has the Wilsons telephone phone number on if you want it?

Thanks, Stu. I can phone them if necessary. I suppose the numbers are on their website. Don’t understand why they can’t do business via email like the rest of the world…

I think they are very stuck in the past and probably don’t feel they have to do too much in terms of customer focus, I can’t believe that we have snuff companies that are not be on friendly terms with the members of a site like this - their loss. In any case, IMHO, they have been completely eclipsed by Toque and Dholakia.

Snuffbox, Send an email directly to Carol Walker. Here is the email address: Carol@sharrowmills.com Also did you email a pic to P&C.com so they check the others & pull if necessary so no one else receives these?

Hey Trout, Carol is the one who answered my first email. Haven’t heard back from anyone after that. I didn’t mail P&C because like we talked about if they have such old stock they really must not be selling much and are probably not experts on the topic. I’ll see if WIlson’s ever follows up and then I’ll decide what to do about P&C. Thanks guys.

I don’t know but I’ve read that aluminum doesn’t corrode much based on time but more directly on condition. Like it might have more to do with how it was shiped or stored then how long it has been on the shelf. Supposedly most aluminum corrosion is electro-chemical so maybe it is something in the snuff or the shipping or something. I don’t know really but looked up a little bit about that before going to bed so.

Princes is supposed to be moist so that along with tobacco juice ought to be enough to do a job on aluminum over the long haul. The porcelain coating of those tins should work pretty well unless somebody starts playing with the tins and opening them and getting snuff all over the threads, or if the factory doesn’t keep the threads clean in the first place. It is strange that there was so much debris in the snuff itself. Definitely bad news.

I sent a nice letter with the pics and as I mentioned above got a reply saying to contact Mars. Now Mars had nothing to do with this and it was obvious if they would have spent ten seconds actually reading my letter, but that would have required somebody to give a damn. I sent back a response within an hour saying it wasn’t Mars, it was shop such and such and thinking Wilson’s would want to know about this. BTW Never got any answer if this was safe to use or not. After not hearing anything for almost a week I sent another note saying can someone please help with this and this is what I got today: "Please see our e-mail dated 25th September. We have investigated and, as stated previously, this is an old tin you have purchased. We DO NOT hold stock of any of our snuff for more than a few weeks, as we are very busy. This tin MUST have been supplied by your retailer and it is with him you need to address your complaint. Regards, " In other words, it ain’t our fault, we don’t care about you, and your business doesn’t matter to us, at least it isn’t worth more than one can of bad Princes.

you would have thought with wilsons been a small family run business they would have been a lot more ‘on the ball’ when it comes to customer support

Hey not very modern but they do have a point (guess I’am saying there are multiple ways to look at this, may sound strange I agree with you but also think they do have a point). I have to say again to I really don’t think it’s time that caused the problem either. From what I’ve looked into most aluminum is corroded already which is what keeps it from looking like your tin since the corrded layer is thin and prevents it from really super corroding like your tin. Even if you scratch the outer layer of corrosion off under normal circumstances it should make a layer of corrosion that is mild and what you normaly see on say a aluminum baseball bat. So my best guess is something went wrong somewhere in the storage process my guess is probably with the distributor. Though I’am no expert but hey look it up that’s what I did.

Here’s what I say: First of all, I don’t hold Wilson’s directly responsible for this, nobody took the can to a lab and said whether it was some contamination during manufacture or whether it was bad storage or just a tin that sat around unsold for too long. I never accused Wilson’s of anything in my letter or on here, I just said here are some pics, is this snuff safe to use? The answer I got wasn’t appropriate. They didn’t say whether it was safe to use or not, they were more concerned in placing the blame. I think finger pointing is silly and pointless (no pun intended) when an easy solution is available. Think how much free good press they could have gotten if they had simply said, “We’re sorry this happened and although we really believe that you were sold an old tin of snuff, we value our customers and will replace this for you immediately. We will also follow up with the vendor to inquire as to why they might be selling old snuff.” After all there is no expiration date on the tin and no date of manufacture, so why should the little guy take a beating when you have the manufacturer and a big retailer involved and selling alot of this product? I just think their answer wasn’t good service, didn’t answer the question, and didn’t treat me as a valued customer. They can blame the retailer all they want, and they may even be right, but they would have gained a loyal customer had they treated me like they cared instead of as an annoyance.

I do agree with you. I get the impression sometimes with wilsons it’s not the best thing it’s family run since it seems like at times they treat it like an inheritance more then a bussiness they would choose to run.

LOL didn’t we agree in another thread that shills won’t be tolerated?

I think I explained myself pretty clearly in this thread.

All your legal views not withstanding, I will bet good money that Roderick would make good on any Toque product no matter who sold it. There’s legalese and there’s finger pointing, and then there’s just good customer service. And I know the difference.

Spare me your “help” and accusations and mind your own business.

Wow, I took a few minutes to contemplate wether to post on this subject or not. Especially since snuffbox seems pretty ticked off right now and the last thing I want to do is draw his ire. But after thinking about it for a few minutes, I must state that tris is absolutely correct. I don’t know which shop you bought it from, but the first place I would present my complaint would be with them. If they treated you poorly and refused to make good on thier sale, then I would turn to Wilson’s and let them know that you recieved this product from one of thier distributers which refuses to replace this obviously poor product. I believe then, after having sent Wilson’s the information that the distributer is refusing to help you, they would then possibly take matters into thier own hands and help you out.

I took the advice of members I trust on this board who suggested in this thread that I contact Wilson’s. These guys have been snuffing longer than you and they have given good advice and all you want to do is blame me for receiving a bad tin and accuse me of things I never did. Do us all a favour and keep your comments to yourself. Everyone else disagrees with you and you haven’t been helpful. Anything further you have to say, you’re wasting your breath on me. (this was directed at the shill, not Poo Diddy who posted at the same time as I did and snuck in there before my post)

I suppose we in the USA expect a level of customer service based upon the the ethic that “the customer is always right” Is the customer always right? - of course not. But if you want a flawless profile in customer relations, you don’t argue or tell your customers to piss off. The buck stops with you, the maker. You damn well take a your lumps here and there to keep yourself above the fray. Wilsons IS derelict in permitting distributors to sell snuff that is degraded from improper storage. Snuff is a perishable product if improperly stored. It is far cheaper in the and, and it shows a company values its customers, even its difficult customers more than a few cents worth of snuff. Wilsons makes snuff by the ton and sells it by the gram. It’s no big deal for them. They are just being bone-headed. I once bought a can of dip made by UST. It was labeled Grizzly Natural Long Cut. It smelled and tasted like wintergreen. I email UST. They sent me a pre-paid mailer to return the snuff to the factory and included six $1. coupons - for a product that retails for $1.79 a can. I also received a letter of thanks from their customer relations person, expressing gratitude that i was helping them make a better product. That left me with a good feeling about the company. How a company reacts to complaints tells a lot about them. As a practical matter, I wouldn’t expect more “help” from Wilsons, but if you send your pictures to the credit card company, they will charge back your entire purchase with the retailer, and that, my friend puts you in the driver’s seat.

You can’t sue them, but fault is another matter.

I just thought of another factor to consider with what tris has said. If wilson takes care of the problem which isn’t their legal responsiblity it really gives the retailer no reason to change his practices. If he’s got to refund or make even the problem with the tin then he’ll have to change some bussiness practice or other. Where if wilson takes care of the problem themselves they are leaveing themselves at a greater loss since the problem isn’t being fixed and is leaving a better chance of more nasty tins being sold which will reduce their sales of a product. Though I’am still suprised at the general tone of their responses.

Definatly wasn’t trying to interpret anyones opinion. Just something I thought about which is neither here nor there. Just a thought I had more in trying to figure out what possible motivations a company might have or what their logic might be.

I agree with Tris on this one. This has nothing to do with Wilson’s and everything to do with the retailer. Take it up with the retailer that you have received a dodgy tin, it is their responsibility to replace it not Wilson’s. If the retailer won’t do anything then complain to Wilson’s about the retailer, then Wilson’s will have to do something about the retailer not necessarily the tin you received as you didn’t buy the tin from Wilson’s. Maybe things work differently in America but I thought it would be common sense to take this up with the shop and not Wilson’s. Just my thoughts. Stefan

Tris, you think like a lawyer and not like a businessperson. I guarantee you that only a badly run business that is failing to reach its potential would ever consider using its legal obligations to its customer as its customer service policy. McChrystals and Toque, for example always seem to go way out of their way to make their customers happy. They have bought my loyalty with their considerateness, even if they hadn’t already deserved it from the quality of their snuff, which they had. That’s why you should avoid placing lawyers (or barristers) in any area of your company other than the legal department or risk management. They’re crap at understanding human stuff.

As many snuffers here who have tried Princes snuff, none of us have ever seen a tin in such bad shape. This shows that it is not a ‘normal’ thing for princes snuff or any other F&T snuff to do. This leads me to believe that it could be a manufacturing error either by contaminants getting into the snuff during packaging or a problem in the manufacturing of the tins. I would think Wilsons would want to deal with this, if nothing else to look into it and see what did go wrong so that it doesn’t happen again. It could be something as simple as a faulty seal on the inside of lid that allowed it to breathe air & moisture in & out over the storage period & this breathing along with vapors of the tobacco & flavorings cause the corrosion. Its possible there was a whole run of bad Princes tins put out by wilsons & they all went to one distributer & then on to one store & P&C.com might have them all, who knows. But like I mentioned before, both Wilsons & Pipes&cigars.com needed to be informed about this so both could deal with the problem. P&C does need to look over their stock to make sure they don’t send anymore out, & Wilsons needs to make sure stores are not selling bad snuff. And if its found that P&C.com has a whole batch of bad Princes tins then maybe Wilson’s needs to recall all the bad snuff for their own interests since there is no expiration date on the tin. You would think WIlson’s wouldn’t want to be putting anyone at risk of health problems related to sniffing this snuff & make sure all contaminated snuff is pulled from the shelf before anyone else gets it & someone not knowing better might snuff through the whole tin. It is in Wilson’s best interest to look into this even if its just giving an explanation of what causes the tins to fail, not to blow the customer off completely. Because a proper made tin & shipped out with a tight lid should last many many years. Unless of course the store loosened the lids then keeps them in a damp basement 100 feet from the ocean shore or inside a salt water aquarium.

I think it probably happened on the distributors end honestly. I’ve seen some amazing stuff ruined by the middle man, especialy since the middle man probably doesn’t deal in one type of product (i.e. just tobacco or the like) and has the highest chance of creating the kind of possible cross contaimnation that would do this to a tin (seriously humidaty shouldn’t effect this type of tin like that). It’s also really patheticly common for various distributors to send out overages (more then was ordered) instead of actualy dealing with ruined product. Then again for all I know wilson may be the distributor. Though it seems like to me the biggest diffrence is between what Americans and the British seem to expect. Or how things are done. And no I really don’t include Toque as a British company since they are clearly far more international then wilsons, and mccrystals also seems more international then wilsons. Either way they’ve probably lost some customers either way (one of the reasons some companies don’t go international is a matter of customs [not the type that has dogs sniff your packages either]) Oh well again just some thoughts. As I’am not trying to convince anyone of anything just sharing some thoughts that haven’t been touched on yet.

Tris, it indeed might cost them money to do something they are not legally required to do. The legal standard is the bare minimum. Going the extra mile is what separates the winners from the losers in the marketplace. Good will is an intangible assett, but a real one. By hewing to a strict legal standard, WoS demonstrates how little they care for their reputation with end users, which has become as corroded as the tin in question. How much does that cost them? BTW, a shill is a person who is planted in an auction to up the bidding. The term also describes one who poses as something he is not while pursuing a hidden agenda. You have come here with what many consider a skewed outlook, only six days ago. I am not accusing you of shillery, but you can understand how some might be inclined to deduce it. I look forward to reading your input on other threads! Welcome to the forum!

I just think that Roderick and Namrata have set the bar too high. We’ve become spoiled with their customer service. (Just Kidding) Firms like Toque & Dolakia are shining examples of 21st century snuff manufacturers (good thing they’re a decent distance from each other or they’d be arch rivals!).

merdock69, don’t forget the great customer relations with Jaap Bes of De Kralingse. It is great to have such good communications with the ones making the products you enjoy.

Too true Trout. Customer service is everything in my opinion. I’ve read posts where toque gets lost in the mail or destroyed and what does Roderick do? he promptly sends out more. Mars is always prompt with their service and adding a little something extra with orders, to me it’s worth the extra effort to send a money order even if they lost their credit card server. And so many others go out of their way to make the customer happy. Wilson’s response in this matter is absolutely horrific, no matter whose fault it was. I’m ready to boycott all their products. There’s just no excuse for their response and it should be “rewarded” by not buying their snuffs. And on that note I think it may be time to boycott Swisher products too. And I hate to do it as I love square snuff and thoroughly enjoy most of the other varieties. They were so nice and sent us those coupons back when but the last time I heard from Mike at Mars, who so graciously accepted the coupons from us, they have not bothered to reimburse him…still! Can you imagine how many of these he accepted at $2.50 a piece?!! How many of us had like 10 coupons each! But that’s not the whole problem. Has anyone been able to get a straight answer on where to find the varieties that they mention on their site? I’ve asked several times in the past 9 months and been ignored, but yet they do manage to send a few emails per week wanting me to play swisher trivia or whatever. What gives! If the manufacturer can’t/won’t tell me where to find their products who the hell will!!!

onefortheroad, There were a few here who did get a response back about the hard to find snuffs. Bigsnoot, Mo & deficiency. Swisher said they would have a local sales rep contact them. I know Mo had back & forth conversations with one rep but the rep didn’t carry it because he only carried the ones most requested & had the best sales… The rep gave him 2 outlets to check out but Mo did not find any of the hard to find snuffs just the common ones there. If you remember this post: More from Swisher/Helme I think the best way to get these other snuffs would be to take a trip to West Virginia & visit the factory.

Guys thanks for your support on this topic. I really appreciate it. I have some good news for me and good news for everybody. After I received the email I posted yesterday from Wilson’s, I emailed the retailer pipesandcigars.com. When I turned on the computer today, I had two emails, one from P&C and one from Wilson’s. Both letters expressed the appropriate concern and offered to replace the tin. Most importantly, the mill manager, Dave Atkin answered my original question and said not to use the snuff. I am going to send the tin back to Wilson’s. All’s well that ends well. Thanks again to everyone for their support, I really believe we should all stick together on issues in our best interests.

@tris- you’re absolutely right that the problem lies with the shop that sold the product. but wilsons response (originally) was unacceptable and the person that sends out a response like that should be fired. the proper response should have been something like – “sorry to hear about this issue, we’ll work with you to resolve the problem, don’t use the snuff in question, we think that retailer in question should replace item, if in the long run we can’t get the retailer to replace said item rest assured we will make sure you do get a fresh tin from us”. And at that point, regardless of how the situation transpired, a good manufacturer would send out a nice sample or coupon or replacement, especially considering the relatively low cost of a can of snuff. It’s not like he got a bad car or computer or something that costs real money. And it makes sense that snuffbox questioned the manufacturer as he was just trying to find out if the product was ok to use. I’m glad to hear that wilsons and pipesandcigars.com have resolved the issue appropriately at this point. As far as the swisher thing goes they need to do a better job than that. They should be able to say where to find the product be it a little store on a deserted island or through a sales rep. And I mean a sales rep that indeed has the product, and doesn’t say he only has the other products you aren’t interested in. Someone from that company should be able to say where to find the product on a store shelf being sold at the retail level. If I was looking for the elusive toque schnazzberry would they hook me up with a sales rep that only sells wholesale and worse yet doesn’t have schnazzberry? Should I take a trip to England to get what I want? You can bet your ass Roderick would never let it come down to that. (hope you don’t mind me using you as an example Roderick…go toque!) Hey Swisher…REIMBURSE YOUR RETAILERS WHEN THEY ACCEPT YOUR MANUFACTURER COUPONS!

Thats good to hear snuffbox.

Good question bigblue1, I imagine the older snuff companies are resting on their laurels so to speak and merely conducting their business as they have always done. Meanwhile roderick and namrata have their fingers on the pulse. Anyone who is new to snuff and knows how to google is gonna end up here eventually. And based their reading here they will probably end up buying some toque… Not to say that with all the new snuffers, that other companies sales wont increase. But I’m sure they aren’t increasing at the rate they would if they were involved in the community.

Tris, I didn’t say you were a shill, Snuffbox did. You asked " what’s a shill"; I only defined the word. In fact I point out that I am not accusing you, so please don’t take it that way. I am very glad you are here to add your legal knowledge to our discussion - truly I am. In my first post to this thread, I told Snuffbox not to expect anything from Wilson’s and to go after the retailer by canceling the credit card transaction. I agree with you that going after the retailer will be most effective here. My background is in public relations and advertising, not law, so we do see things differently. Public relations in the modern academic sense is all about effectively communicating with a myriad of subgroups - each with their own special interest. We see a company as residing in the middle of concentric spheres of influence - shareholders, creditors, suppliers, employees, peers in the market, news outlets, wholesalers, government agencies, retailers and of course consumers. Each “public” has it’s own set of concerns and relates differently to the company. An effective public relations effort defines a relationship goal, and a message and media strategy for each discrete group. For a company like WoS the process would start with a communications audit. A survey would be conducted and a picture would emerge of the company’s standing vis-a-vis each public. Problems might come to light and could be dealt with proactively, preserving key relationships and engendering new ones. A communications audit establishes a base line for company relationships and can be re-measured at intervals to track the progress of communications programs. Using established survey methodology, it’s very scientific. The law tends to be reactive and come into play to redress harms caused by one party to the other. Legally a company has no contractual obligations past the first party they sell to. But to build brand loyalty, a willingness to take on additional burdens is often necessary. I have done a lot of consultative selling in my time, and the watchword amongst the best people in the sales game can be summed up: " People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care." The legal outlook is even more succinct: caveate emptor.

What a big fat bologne sandwich this thread was!

Mmmmm… Bologna

Glad to hear it finally worked out for you Snuffbox. Possibly someone at WIlsons read this thread?

Or possibly the only person with the athurity to really take care of the problem was the one that finaly dealt with it. It’s really not uncommon for bussinesses to have controls like that. I may just be projecting my own experiences with work but it’s amazing how many times you have to get the manager when you already know what they’ll do but they are the only one that can make that choice.

I think thats a great idea Rob, I still want to get my hands on some of that Swisher High Toast. Was able to get some Starr for a bit, but unfortunately the one store that sold it has stopped selling snuff altogether. The Starr is actually a decent snuff.

Thanks again for all your support guys. I will keep you updated with what happens after I send the snuff back. I don’t know if they read the thread or what but I don’t think so. I think maybe somebody who cares did actually read the letter but not too carefully again since they asked about Mars for the 3rd time! LOL. Thanks lxskllr as much as it’s tough I really believe sticking together is the right thing to do.

celticsnuffer said "Here’s an idea for everyone that like Swisher snuff maybe we could get our friend at Nicotine Rush to get some of the rare snuffs if he can do so then it would be a lot easier for the rest of us to get them when we want to try them! Just a thought let me know your opinions! " I think that’s an excellent idea. Hopefully the guy (sorry I already forgot your name) at Nicotine Rush thinks so too.

This isn’t really about culpabiltity - its about customer service and the level you have the right to expect. The fault could have happened at either end of the chain of sale and most concerned manufacturers and suppliers would replace without argument purely on the principle that a happy customer is a customer who will return. Its simple business sense and you don’t need knowledge of contract law to get that fact. I agree that Roderick has set the bar at a very high level and I guess the old established companies still haven’t grasped some of the principles of modern customer service or just don’t feel the need - Wilson’s have been around since the 1700’s and have a big global market. Personally, as I have said before, its a mystery to me why any snuff company - given that tobacco is going through its toughest ever time and advertising is banned in the UK - is not hand in glove with a site like this and its customers.

I didn’t understand lustiger’s comments. I thought snuffster was responding to him…I agree as usual with what snuffster had to say, I think he said it pretty well. And in the end Wilsons did the right thing. I’m pleased enough that today I placed an order with them.

Quoting from snuffster’s last post on this thread “The fault could have happened at either end of the chain of sale and most concerned manufacturers and suppliers would replace without argument purely on the principle that a happy customer is a customer who will return.” That is so true, we know it took some time but Wilsons did act it the right way, now they haven’t lost Snuffbox from their customers and as he says he’ now pleased and just placed a order.

Snuff Head I added the big tin of C&M at your suggestion at the last moment! I’ll let you know how I like it when the order arrives.

Now this is interesting. I was sitting here enjoying my Princes, and I thought I’d search the forum about it, and this was one of 2 returns that had princes in it. This is what my Princes can looked like! I read all the posts here and I don’t think there is a danger. But what I did was dump the snuff out in a bowl, and I used my snuff spoon and picked out the flakes, I also took the tin to the sink, and cleaned it up. The “stuff” came off well enough. I got the snuff looking decent, let it sit out overnight, as it was really too moist to my liking. The next morning it looked great, the tin looked fine, I poured it back in, and it seems fine to me.

Wow tom, you made me read all of that to read your post! really, yours looked as bad as this one? Corrosion or whatever all over the tin? I think I would have sent it back if it looked that bad. I don’t miss Mr. Chip-on-Shoulder though.

Well, I believe it’s from the top/lid, that liner stuff, seems like it melted and got on the sides, and some in the snuff. I cleaned it all out pretty well, and got the can looking decent. I don’t think it’s a danger. I didn’t buy it from a shop, as I would have said something. But I am confident I fixed it, and I like this snuff.

I wouldn’t touch snuff that looked like that with a ten foot stick. One shouldn’t have to fish out rubber flakes out of one’s snuff.

It wasn’t that big a deal. Looks fine now, and the tin looks good.

shop also means online shop. Unless you got it in a trade. But ok, so long as you not snuffing bad stuff. Princes is a very nice snuff.

Ack, I have a tin like this. I thought it was sugar crystals! :o

I think it’s the part of the under of the lid, maybe melted? I don’t know, but I dumped the snuff out in a bowel, used my snuff spoon and flicked out the pieces, and scraped and cleaned the can. I let it sit out overnight in the bowel, and now I feel confident it’s fine, and I like this snuff quit a bit.