Hi well I just don’t get it I mean I have used every nrt going and I mean everything and I failed to quit ? Even with the new spray that gets nicotine in your system dam fast didn’t stop me … But snuff did and continues to stop me from smoking … Why ? What’s in it that isn’t in nrt their has to be something ?? I know snuff Is ground up tobacco and nrt is nicotine but Is the ground up tobacco (snuff) not just giving me nicotine also ???

Tobacco flavor/scent. I think its similar to the way that coffee is so much more satisfying than caffeinated water (which I have had, and was unimpressed by)

whole leaf alkaloids

Pleasure. I don’t know of any form of NRT that actually provides any sort of enjoyment.

It isn’t just the nicotine that does it for people who enjoy tobacco. There are a ton of other substances in tobacco and those are just as important to your enjoyment/craving as the nicotine.

@Mark W- Bingo! Researches are starting to hone in on WLA as being one of the main reasons that tobacco-based NRT like smokeless tobacco is more effective than pharmaceutical NRT. I don’t have the study at hand, but test subjects were given four different classes of NRT: smokeless tobacco (snuff and snus), pharmaceutical (inhalers, patches, gum, lozenges and receptor-blocking medication), electronic cigarettes and finally placebo devices. The results were astounding: even with nicotine levels higher than what the subject was used to absorbing through traditional smoking, pharmaceuticals and e-cigs were only slightly more effective than placebos at aiding cessation. BUT, with nicotine levels on average LOWER than what the subjects typically absorb through cigarette smoking, smokeless tobacco was twice as effective at cessation than synthetic NRTs. Studies like this keep pointing at a substance in tobacco that is every bit as important as nicotine in satisfying an addict’s cravings. It’s not one of the thousands of chemicals that are produced during the combustion process either, because this “missing link” is present in tobacco products that aren’t smoked. This substance has been identified as the naturally occurring alkaloids that are present in leaf tobacco, and they can’t be replicated in a lab. Of course, we still need decades of research to understand why and how these alkaloids affect the body. But the pharmaceutical companies aren’t ready to give up the fight just yet- they’re claiming that WLAs are a figment of the tobacco industry’s imagination and the whole argument is skewed in their favor so that people will stay addicted to tobacco products instead of Big Pharma’s expensive and dangerous man-made potions.

I agree with PipenSnusnSnuff & Vathek one word is all you need to explain it, PLEASURE!

I’m tempted by the mystery alkaloid theory. But I still think it’s probably the nicotine. NRT products are designed, in the first instance, to boost NRT sales. They maintain nicotine levels in the blood that are generally lower than you’d get from smoking, either by delivering low doses, or by delivering them inefficiently or by delivering them in the wrong form. Others will understand the science better than I will, but I understand that nicotine levels don’t tell us very much unless we know how ‘protonated’ the nicotine is. It’s a bit like rating an orgy on the number of people who turn up, rather than the proportion of males to females. The feebleness of NRT is arguably because there are safety issues involved, but I can’t see how the manufacturers and retailers would make much money out of them if they worked. There has been an awful lot of research into tobacco, and it’s difficult to see how a compound important to the addiction mechanisms would have been overlooked. Whereas it’s much easier to see how a great deal of easy money (and tax revenue) can be made by keeping people not-quite-quit.

Are the other alkaloids a mystery? I can’t remember where I was reading about it now, so I’m afraid I can’t provide a link, but I’m sure I read something about MOAI’s. This would explain the antidepressant qualities of tobacco, and may be the thing that is missing from NRT.

Yes, MAOIs. This is not really news, studies showing their presence have been published for some time now.

Tobacco, a gift from God, holds many secrets.

well NRTs typical have some stupidity going with them like lower levels of nicotine and the fact they are designed to not be a long term option but an extremely short term option which is contray to actual addiction treatment. They also are designed to continual lower the levels of nicotine at a steady and predetermined rate where as snus (which has been proven to actualy be able to be used the way nicotine gum is, lowering your levels slowly so you can avoid going cold turkey [known as tapering]) you can lower the level when you are ready at the degree you want to (same applies to snuff). nrt tends to take the control away from the person which is a good idea for some but not many. A treatment option should but control in the hands of the addict otherwise it kind of misses the point.

Decongestion (in some cases) and aromatic sensationalism.

There is a good tropical bob video regarding the alkaloid issue and his intention to make alkaloid rich nrt products.

What it gives is pleasure. What we seek in tobacco is pleasure not a stone cold fix.

100% right.

Thats why I switched from e-cigs to snus and snuff. I puffed on the e-cig constanyly , but still craved tobacco.

NRT do you know the definition of NRT has changed a little bit and now includes anything with nicotine that is used to reduce the harm of a nicotine addiction. Subtle but important diffrence. It means now you can consider snuff NRT!

There are some very eminent people that actually name snuff as a potential mass life saver. I’ve quoted two of them in my last article for the STE.

and I think there are going to be more. Especialy since if the international codeing considers NRT and nicotine containing anything that is used to reduce harm. Means they can start recommending snuff to schizophrenics for example.

Do they currently recommend cigarettes to schizophrenics then? It’s interesting that regular NRT is considered medicine and has to have FDA approval, whereas tobacco products are largely unregulated. I hope this doesn’t change if they start recommending smokeless tobacco as NRT…

@DrBeat, no they don’t recommend cigs to schizophrenics , but it’s well known that a lot of schizophrenics use cigs to self medicate. Actually many people use nicotine to self medicate for various problems. Mental health professionals have known for a long time that nicotine has beneficial properties in many cases. I use it to help control my ADD. Nice to see medical professionals are starting to see the light.

As a cop in London you see a great deal of psych patients over a career and it is very rare to see one who doesn’t smoke. Same with the prison/police jail cell population. If we ever had a prison officer strike we had to go into prisons and do their job, or house newly sentenced people in disused police cell blocks and we actually had petty cash from the home office to buy tobacco for them. If that ever got held up we had problems, it was almost as though the tobacco sedated them. Not a very scientific anecdote but it left me convinced that tobacco did more than just feed an addiction. Tobacco has been banned in some US pens. and that seems like one hell of a bad decision, kind of ‘what can we do to make this powder keg even more likely to go up?’.

As a Schizophrenic myself, none of my care workers have ever tried, or even recommend that I stop smoking. I only smoke a pipe now though with the odd ounce of rolling baccy. This is in total contrast to my GP, when I see him every month for my medication, he demands that I stop smoking, and keeps trying to get me on NRT. But I must say, both GP and care workers are damning about alcohol. I say bollocks to them, my body, my choice. I’m aware of the dangers etc, I’ve been using alcohol half my life, if I don’t know what it does or can do now, I never will. All I know is I’m drinking 10% of what I was 5 years ago, but because it is over the “sacred” 21 units a week then it is bad. Stefan

Doctor beat some do. It really helps them alot. It’s actualy been very encouraged though not as openly as a medical record. A doctor can give you non-medical advice, try this brand and listen to this album. IF you get what I’am saying. Now they can try to get payment from a insurance company for making the nrt recomendation.

not to get political but American prisions are often run on a philosphy of punishment over rehabilitation or practical seperation. It’s part of the culture something about the american mentality. Psychology has found americans (and other people in more punishment minded cultures) are more likely to see things as someones fault even when it’s clear it isn’t.

Without digressing too far, our entire society is developing a culture of not taking responsibility for our own actions. We always look for fault elsewhere first, and have a great time publicly flogging our scapegoats. Obviously there are exceptions, but it is becoming a frightening norm in this country. Our prison system *really* gets my hackles up, so I won’t even start on it. Enough said. Time to fill my snoot with snuff. Cheers!

Pleasure, plain & simple.

The MAOIs

There is a symbioses in tobacco that is irreplaceable.

And if ya got snuff why even try…

I’ve just taken a pinch of delicous snuff from a rose wood and silver snuff box. I don’t feel the need for a cigarette, in fact nothing could be further from my mind. A pleasant nicotine and alkaloid hit from a beautiful, tactile container. I can buy a years supply for less than £100

I’ve just chewed a mint flavoured nicorette. It’s given me a sore throat and hiccups. It tastes something between toothpaste and rubber and I want a cigarette. The blister pack looks like medicine and the content’s taste like it. It will cost me around £20 a week.

delete as applicable

@Snuffster

Wow, so well put together.

Plus in the long run nicorette gum made my teeth squeak togheter, kind of like a piece of chalk on a black board.

I quit cigarettes years ago and don’t give them a second thought. But to think of quitting snuff, well that is preposterous. The tactile stimulation of the box itself and pinching is such a part of it. The historical factor is also big for me. And the flavors of snuff, of course, can never be matched in other forms of tobacco. Pipe tobacco comes close but is combusted so much of the flavoring agents are altered significantly by the time you detect them.

I really do hate to say it, but out of context page here you come:)

Damn, Snuffster beat me to it!

Stimulation of the box eh?

You would not believe how carefully I word anything to do with snuffboxes

The flavor, the decongestant effects, the whole ceremonial routine (for some of us the whole process of taking a pinch has become an almost sanctimonial rite)  and, of course, let’s not forget about the brown snot!

Nose leather is the best.

Yes. especially the brown snot is worth it for me. ;-))