…I hate it when people say ‘bless you’ when I sneeze! How on Earth did it become ‘good manners’ to strike up a conversation with a stranger who is in a compromised position? If I have just sneezed and have snot hanging out of my nostrils, the last thing I want is to have someone draw attention to it by ‘politely’ saying ‘bless you’, to which I am obligated to reply ‘thank you’ while scrabbling about for a handkerchief to wipe mucus off my face. Since moving to the States, it has got even worse. Complete strangers will say ‘bless you’ to you if you sneeze in a public space, or even more maddeningly, ‘God bless you’. As a snuff-taking atheist, I have developed a strong aversion to this ridiculous practice. It’s actually affecting my snuff taking habits. My bosses and work colleagues know all about my weird habit, and I snuff openly in my office. Sometimes though, I decide not to because I don’t want to sit through the barrage of ‘bless-yous’ which inevitably follow. At least three people bless me every time I take snuff Who’s with me? Does this annoying practice deserve to die out, or am I just being a grumpy b*****d?
Sorry, I always appreciate good manners and that represents same. Would you prefer ‘Oh gross, get away, why are you in public?’
Saying “Bless you” after somebody sneezes is based on an old superstition that when one sneezes their soul briefly leaves their body (or something to that effect) and it’s just turned into a default response to a sneeze over the years. It does not bother me at all when somebody says it to me but I don’t offer the same “blessing” in kind.
Bless you @doctorbeat ! lol seriously though, I live in the States and know exactly what you mean. I always wondered how the whole “God bless you” thing got started in the first place. I always found it rather odd that my involuntary bodily action warrants that type of response from it seems practically everyone! Especially when I’m not in the greatest of moods ( like now BC I’m out of snuff ) it even becomes a bit irritating!
No, I’d rather they just pretended not to notice. Good manners is saying ‘please’, ‘thankyou’, holding a door open, inquiring after someone’s health, not drawing attention to a bodily function. Although saying ‘bless you’ is taught as good manners, I don’t believe that, as an action, it is a polite thing to do. What’s next? Are people going to greet me on my way out of the bathroom after taking a dump with a hearty round of applause?
Sorry, I always appreciate good manners and that represents same. Would you prefer ‘Oh gross, get away, why are you in public?’
I get where your coming from, manners are great! But no response at all, at least when I have snuff and mucous coming out of my nose, would be preferred!
Someone told me it goes all the way back to the Black Plague. Someone sneezes, you say “bless you” as a wish that they aren’t going to keel over and die. If that’s bullshit, blame my primary school teacher.
Sickness was always associated with demons when it wasn’t understood medically, So god bless you when you sneezed was some believer stating the god had expelled the demon. Shortened to bless you for the agnostic ,My mother just said cover your mouth when you cough. then you go and turn the door knob and get everyone sick. I suggest move to the big apple you could be bleeding on the side walk and people will walk right past. It good to know some folks still have compassion for their fellow man. Next time some one blesses you them them to go suck eggs; I am sure they will stop blessing you!
The soul escaping/plage origins sound plausible, but who cares? We know now that your soul does not escape when you sneeze, and that saying a blessing will not protect someone from contracing a disease (or affect the outcome if they are already infected). It may be ‘good manners’, but it’s obsolete. I challenge the nay sayers to try this: Go to a large supermarket anywhere in the USA, and sneeze. Total strangers all around you will see this as an opening to strike up a conversation with you, and will be offended if you don’t thank them for it. If they want to be well-mannered, they could try putting their blinker on when driving around a corner or changing lanes on the parkway.
Personally, I feel more strongly about near total strangers who expect you to kiss them on the cheek. If someone wants to publicly affirm their hope that I won’t die in the next 24 hours, even if they call upon a deity from one of those monotheistic Abrahamic religions that seem to start so many of the world’s squabbles, then I’ll let it slide without taking offence.
I’m going with grumpy bastard. I say bless you as a kneejerk reaction anyway and continue on my merry way. It is just a ritual of our society. This is like saying holding a door open for a lady is sexist. Considering my recent complaining of necroposts in the chitchat thread, maybe I have no room to talk, but come on.
From now on when someone farts the “polite” thing is to say congratulations. I too don’t enjoy people doing this and really gazoontite or however its spelt would at least be politically correct as to not offend those who do not believe in God atheist agnostic or what have you. Every other thing has to be politically correct
It does annoy me, and it irritates me no end that my girlfriend does it as a kneejerk reaction when a stranger even sneezes across the room. since living in situations where drawing attention isnt the best idea, i almost feel physical discomfort when she says it out loud. and this brings me on to my own kneejerk… I apologise! im far too english, if she says it loudly i have to restrain the urge to shush her and apologise profusely for disturbing people or getting unnecessarily involved in their business haha.
I find that I just can’t be bothered to give a fuzzy rats ass whether I am “blessed” or not. There is just too much of actual importance going on in life.
Back in the states it was drilled into folks to say it- where a divergence is obvious is when someone says "“Gesundheit” a Germanic variation for immigrant families such as ours. As I was told it was said because ones heart stopped albeit briefly and saying such was because it started back up again. Having been spurred to test my Google skills I went searching and found what passes for “information” these days- Wikipedia and where my supposition was somewhat bolstered. And according to it- saying it after a sneeze is quite wide spread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responses\\_to\\_sneezing Me, I could care less if someone feels compelled to utter it to me after a sneeze.
Its clear a matter of politeness, thats my humble opinion. No trolls,fairies,God or demons here. just an expression of politeness. But in the other hand i respect totally your opinion doctorbeat.
@doctorbeat You have officially outed youself as a crank. Welcome to the club!
You could just avoid using snuff that makes you sneeze in public. I save the sneezey, mucous inducing snuffs for home use. Not because of the bless you thing I just hate rummaging around for a hanky with snot dripping out of my nostril.
@JakartaBay you’re quite right. Roots of “bless you” go back to the Black Death. Well, there are three main types of plague - one of them attacks lungs. Hundreds years ago people suffering on pneumonic type of plague were often dying right after they sneezed. Sneezing was just killing them. That is why we say “bless you” nowadays.
@bigmick Unfortunately ALL snuff makes me sneeze
Moved to the OT section. Personally, I’d rather la bise than shake someones nasty hand.
I’m an atheist too and whilst some religious practises may slightly grind my gears I can’t say ‘Bless you’ irritates me at all. Live and let live, eh?
Yes, it can be annoying at times, but I politely respond with a “Thank you” and go about my business. I wouldn’t let it bother me to the point that I felt the need to rant about it on the internet.
What I hate is fake “over-southern-ing” as I call it— or fake “over-yankee-ing” ---- like how everyone here in the South has to attempt a #$#$# hee-haw accent while all up North have to put on some fake mafia/itailio accent---- stupid and it pisses me off entirely
If you have problems with common, everyday, social nicieties then that’s YOUR problem. You said: “Since I moved…” Like it or not, you will have to get used to local colloquialisms! Do you feel the same way about a person saying “Good bye”? After all… what they are saying is the common contraction for: “God be with you.”
@howdydave boy, that really brought the room down :))
It seems to me, that since Dick Dorkins has amassed such a large following, that it has become fashionable for many atheists to mock and be entirely intolerant of anything religious. This is especially apparent on twitter. This is a path I refuse to go down. It is full of hate, superiority-complex and cynicism, and is not for me. There’s even a church of atheism now. How fracked up is that? It goes against everything atheist. For every crazy theist there’s a well balanced theist. For every well balanced atheist there’s a crazy atheist. Blaming every thing that’s wrong with the world on religion, as many fanatical atheists are inclined to do, is short-sighted, bigoted, and narrow-minded. I repeat, live and let live. There’s enough intolerance in this world. Don’t add to it.
Ok, and please don’t turn this into a discussion on religion, thanks.
I don’t like it either. But I have noticed that the people who say it mean well and that is okay with me. I just ignore it and let it go.
Ok, and please don’t turn this into a discussion on religion, thanks.
Sorry @Xander - your post is possibly directed at me, but let’s be honest here. This thread started out as a discussion about religion the second the OP emphasised his disdain for “God bless you”
Everybody we believe what we believe, nobody cares if you are atheist or if i am Christian, Buddhist or Alien born. Faith or not has nothing to do with forum. It’s totally personal and private info
@Snuffysnuff Not at you specifically, but you are right, the whole thread is based on a religious premise. I was keeping it open since it does relate to sneezing which relates to snuff so long as the comments remain neutral on religious matters. Some of them are uncomfortably close to non neutrality. It can stay open so long as that line is not crossed. My note above is just a warning that this thread is slippery.
Just to be clear, I’m not offended about the ‘God’ part, I just find it ironic since I’m not a believer myself. Just makes it even more redundant as far as I’m concerned. My main issue, and the point I’m trying to make, is that I don’t like being percieved as rude for not wanting to talk to people, especially strangers, during an involuntary bodily function.
I didn’t realize this had all gotten so serious-- personally I do believe in God (deism) – I thought we were just discussing things that aggravate us— should be fun, not political
@doctorbeat Your defense is weak, Sir. It was a clear but poor attempt to mock and criticise religion. A passive aggressive attempt to deride religion. Why else focus on ‘God bless you’ as something that especially irritates you since moving to the US (your words). I suspect you worship at the altar of Dick Dorkins. Your hate is not welcome by this atheist. Go and join the twitter atheists. They will welcome your religious mockery with open arms. Search for ‘ASH’ - Atheist Super Heroes (guffaw); they are the worst fanatics and most loathesome of twitter atheists. You’ll fit right in with your superiority complex and intolerance.
@doctorbeat Your defense is weak, Sir. It was a clear but poor attempt to mock and criticise religion. A passive aggressive attempt to deride religion. Why else focus on ‘God bless you’ as something that especially irritates you since moving to the US (your words). I suspect you worship at the altar of Dick Dorkins. Your hate is note welcome by this atheist. Go and join the twitter atheists. They will welcome your religious mockery with open arms. Search for ‘ASH’ - Atheist Super Heroes (guffaw), they are the worst fanatics and most loathesome of twitter atheists. You’ll fit right in with your superiority complex and intolerance.
Well said, sir.
@doctorbeat You’ll fit right in with your superiority complex and intolerance.
Rather ironic.
I have yet to have the snuffy sneeze fits in public, luckily, crosses fingers, but im glad I dont live in a country where this is the norm, because I dont simply sneeze from snuff, I get sneezing fits, with up to ten in a row, if not more, it would be ridiculous for people to say bless you for each sneeze once it gets going. And with all the attention on my brown sniffles and dirty handkerchief, lol… definitely not something I would like to invite.
Me too, I have quite a sensitive nose, and when I get a sneezing fit, I often end up with a group of strangers standing around me chanting ‘bless you’ after every sneeze, sometimes under their breath. It’s weird and makes me uncomfortable.
I think this is more so cultural than religious— seems to me @doctorbeat is merely saying the “Bless you…” is a colloquialism that irritates him— I can add this— I have noticed oft times at work (I work with many Christian people), when someone sneezes, only those others who LIKE him/her confer this “blessing.” I’ve seen those they DON’T care as much for (and some of them are Christian people too) sneeze— and the room remains silent… So, perhaps this signifies something more socially complex? :))
Lol maybe you’re right @general_desaix! You also made me realize that I may have sounded like I don’t like the people I work with. Nothing could be further from the truth! Many of them are devout Catholics, and the company I work for is owned by a Jewish family. They are all truly genuine good people, and we have a family atmosphere. I have no doubt that they care about me, and maybe that’s why I get so many 'bless you’s The strangers in Stop & Shop can go **** themselves though.
I suggest avoiding moist snuffs. You never get this with Dholakia White.
@jakartaboy: I find that moisture content doesn’t affect my sneezing much, except that drier snuffs make me sneeze immediately, whereas moister snuffs make me sneeze a couple of minutes after taking them. I just have a really sensitve sneeze reflex. This is the only reason I still smoke, and I’m persevering in order to acclimate my nose.
When I drive I often see people picking nose goblins. Then gobbling them down. Is this common in your corner of the world? Makes me want to hurl, I haven’t tried it .I put fresh tobacco directly into my mouth. Is dehydrated used snuff tasty?
My usual response when somebody sneezes is: “Two more and you get to make a wish.” This is based on folklore that says that if a person sneezes three times in a row they will have a wish come true.
Wow, reading this whole thread it seems a few have gotten a bit hostile; even a bit far from what I think was the main Idea, which I can assure everyone, was and is not religion. The point that I thought @doctorbeat was attempting to get across would be that no matter what is said, it draws attention to you in a vulnerable/awkward situation which is undesirable for many people (myself included). Though I realize it is in good manner and a nice gesture, its simply one I would rather avoid. I’m quite sure that wither someone says “bless you”, “nice”, or “two more and you get to make a wish”, (which is at least entertaining and somewhat funny to me) the fact is that it draws unwanted attention because of something you can’t control. For the record, any variation of a well wish after a sneeze does not bother me all that much; it’s just not the nicest feeling with visible mucous on my face.
It comes from this song I was taught in infant school: Ring-a-ring o’ roses, A pocket full of posies, A-tishoo! A-tishoo! We all fall down. Sneezing was a sign of Black Death or The Plague. You should be grateful that this custom is still valid and they only have your best wishes at heart. And I’m quite sure there are absolutely no religious connotations. You just say ‘bless you’, and it’s polite to do so in many European countries as well as the UK. Gesundheit in German, gezondheid in Dutch etc
It comes from this song I was taught in infant school: Ring-a-ring o’ roses, A pocket full of posies, A-tishoo! A-tishoo! We all fall down. …
Interesting, I always heard the lyrics sung as " … Ashes Ashes We all fall down "
That one’s been busted: http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp
@bryanikon I heard it that way also. “Ashes, Ashes” Referred to the cremation of the bodies from the black death.
Well, in the UK, which is where the bubonic plague was, we sing ‘a-tishoo a-tishoo’, as in sneezing. If you search the internet hard enough you’ll find some crank trying to discredit absolutely anything…and it’s usually a person that replaces an ‘s’ with a ‘z’…
I’ve always preferred “Get any on you”?
The way we said it was ring around the Rosie pocket full of posy ashes ashes we all fall down and we’d sing it holding hands in a circle dancing around someone, supposedly Rosie
You’ll have to argue with Mrs Pugh then, my infant school teacher. I thought you wanted to know where ‘bless you’ came from whenever anyone sneezed?
No, I didn’t want to know where it came from, I just want people to stop doing it to me
I think whether you are religious or not, the line “give me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change” is worth considering.
The wisdom to know the difference ! The only mind you can change is your own!
In Ring around the Rosie the term is " ashes ashes" because during the plague they burned those who died from the black death. It’s amazing what a dark and morbid origin children’s songs can have, eh? I for one will not discard this great piece of folklore based on one person with a website’s say so. That’s the thing about folklore… it doesn’t have to be true!
I agree children songs can be horrid , Hush-a-by baby On the tree top, When the wind blows The cradle will rock. When the bough breaks, The cradle will fall, And down will fall baby Cradle and all. Who puts cradles in tree tops?
^ orangutans
^Tarzan & Jane
^crows
Let’s go back to generalized meanness… I am, typically, a very tolerant person (until it comes to football matches, but I digress…) but the people I work with amaze me — and NOT in a good way. I’ve never seen a man who can smell up a bathroom worse than the 3 rather large women who work here alongside-- disgusting and I should add the stench is not ALL from the rear… YUK!!! – too, we’re supposed to have a one hour lunch— they typically all take 2.5 hours (should I add that they’re all related???) — and I’m not even going to go into how lazy they are-- pathetic. So, what do you do when — 3 years ago, I was hired on to “fix” this place management-wise-- and I have done so— I have, almost single-handedly, made this firm profitable again and completely organized and economized this office— BUT, now the same boss who tells me upon my hire, “Look, you’re walking into a bad situation here, but…” turns his back on me and acts like I’m implementing too many “rules.” What gives? So, what I hate more than anything is: laziness and liars. Why do people lie?? I mean, we all do as children (“I didn’t do it, mum”), teenagers (“going to Ron’s, Mum… we’re going to drink sodas and watch movies”— proceeds to drink copious amounts of beer of course) etc… But as adults? How very childish… To fear reprisal so much that one makes a total fool of the self by compounding error(s) and bad behavior(s) by lying… Pisses me off… Sorry— had to vent a bit Supposed to be able to telecommute pretty soon-- then THEY can have their way and I can actually DO MY JOB.
@general_desaix How big is the company? Is it possible to go above your boss? Sounds like your ready for a promotion, and when your pitching it you can also suggest further economising by firing a few long lunch eating heafalumps to be replacing the with one efficient youngster. You dont make it to the top without taking some chances or by being everyones friend.
@BigNose Agreed all fronts and thanks. Very small firm— after reading your reply, having thought it over, I realize part of the problem is that I’ve moved up as far as one can – time for me to seriously commit to finding another job… One where I can move up a bit. No job is perfect-- everyone knows that — but when it’s time to move on, it’s time to move on. Cripes-- I’m making this sound like a self-help article in Women’s Day. :))
^^^^^^^^^^Scented Snuffs makes the smelly world disappear =)) Heavy woman and cheap perfume, proof there is a hell !! >:)
^^^ @basement_shaman Truer words never spoken!
Hey, no need to talk bad about them for their size when there are obviously plenty of other reasons to dislike those particular trouble makers. Size discrimination is a particular pet peeve of mine.
@Harlequin Okay
I look like a grumpy pissed off bastard all the time so unless some one knows me they don’t say shit. The reality is I’m pretty damn happy all the time I just have a face that looks pissed off as its natural state. I still get bless you from family and, friends all the time though.
I don’t say bless you when someone sneezes because I find it kind of annoying when they do it to me. It doesn’t make me mad or angry and I do appreciate the gesture it’s just annoying esp when you sneeze several times in a row and they feel the need to repeat it after every sneeze. It’s uncomfortable enough just let me sneeze it out in peace! My 6th grade teacher considered it rude and wouldn’t tolerate it. That was one rule I never had a problem with.
My girlfriend has started making me. Something about the Leprechaun. I think she might have said the 3rd movie. Only for her.
I work in a store. Some people don’t say hello when they start talking to you. Some don’t say please when they ask something. Some don’t say thank you when I’ve helped them, served them or answered their question. One guy came into the store and all he said was “toilet?” Wasn’t even going to buy anything! I was told you said ‘bless you’ to stop the devil entering our body when you sneezed, but as far as I’m concerned it’s polite and it’s good manners, and anything that helps maintain those is a good thing. If you don’t like it, ignore it.
…I hate it when people say ‘bless you’ when I sneeze! How on Earth did it become ‘good manners’ to strike up a conversation with a stranger who is in a compromised position? If I have just sneezed and have snot hanging out of my nostrils, the last thing I want is to have someone draw attention to it by ‘politely’ saying ‘bless you’, to which I am obligated to reply ‘thank you’ while scrabbling about for a handkerchief to wipe mucus off my face. Since moving to the States, it has got even worse. Complete strangers will say ‘bless you’ to you if you sneeze in a public space, or even more maddeningly, ‘God bless you’. As a snuff-taking atheist, I have developed a strong aversion to this ridiculous practice. It’s actually affecting my snuff taking habits. My bosses and work colleagues know all about my weird habit, and I snuff openly in my office. Sometimes though, I decide not to because I don’t want to sit through the barrage of ‘bless-yous’ which inevitably follow. At least three people bless me every time I take snuff Who’s with me? Does this annoying practice deserve to die out, or am I just being a grumpy b*****d?
The origins of saying something after someone sneezes is believed to have originally been centered around health and not religion. " Many people have become accustomed to saying “bless you” or “gesundheit” when someone sneezes. No one says anything when someone coughs, blows their nose or burps, so why do sneezes get special treatment? What do those phrases actually mean, anyway? Wishing someone well after they sneeze probably originated thousands of years ago. The Romans would say “Jupiter preserve you” or “Salve,” which meant “good health to you,” and the Greeks would wish each other “long life.” The phrase “God bless you” is attributed to Pope Gregory the Great, who uttered it in the sixth century during a bubonic plague epidemic (sneezing is an obvious symptom of one form of the plague). The exchangeable term “gesundheit” comes from Germany, and it literally means “health.” The idea is that a sneeze typically precedes illness. It entered the English language in the early part of the 20th century, brought to the United States by German-speaking immigrants. " Nowadays " Bless you " is a sign of respect. Even when I was an athiest I appreciated when people said it. It’s the equivalent to someone holding a door for you and you have to walk faster. If strangers are showing kindness in this world full of hate and death even if it seems inconvenient to you it’s silly to rant on about it and let it fester. I believe your problem stems from the fact you think it has a religious meaning. Which it doesn’t, and yes Atheists even say it. On a more touchy subject if you look up the word " god " in history its meaning as evolved over time and will continue to do so. You seem like a fairly logical person to me. What if a single element gave birth to the rest and started the domino effect we call our universe, and just maybe other universes alike. Wouldn’t you be able to suck it up and call that element god? Atheism as more to do with personality IMO… Not even Albert Einstein was an atheist he believed in a pantheistic god but he also said along the lines of humans as a whole are too dim to know for sure. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I’m the most grumpy antisocial logical person I know and still I wouldn’t think twice about someone saying " bless you "
I no longer sneeze. I just hold it in for a very long time. Then, when I find myself in a crowded elevator, I let loose with a fart that lifts me off my feet from the pent up pressure. That way there’s no one left alive to insult my sensibilities and sensitive nature by wishing me well, regardless of our mutual or exclusive religious persuasions. I don’t share my political or religious views with others. I will say this. In The United States of America we have freedom OF religion. NOT freedom FROM religion. If one doesn’t like the peculiarities of we the feeble colonists, feel free to self deport back from whence you came. We allowed you to come here. We didn’t force you to come here against your will. If our cultural proclivities offend you, I’ll be most happy to get the door, and I won’t let it slam you in the ass on your way back to whatever paradise motivated you to emigrate here. You volunteered to be here, so show a little respect and just shut the hell up if you don’t care for our way of life. The same goes for those born here that are too ignorant to appreciate what they’ve been given. Down here below the Mason-Dixon line the genteel females say “Bless Your Heart”. That translates to ____ ___! My son is an atheist. They are on child number two, so I’ve eliminated virginity as one of their other vices. So, I asked him, as an atheist, what he said/screamed/yelled/cried out/bellowed/expressed when he achieved la petite mort after a long , sweaty marathon of bumping uglies with his beautiful bride. The silence was both deafening and telling. //rant over//
I will easily ignore religious and political comments. Ignorance is common even within the most knowledgable. Please try not to sneeze around people and certainly use a handkerchief my fellow snuffers. All we need is for nay sayers to claim that we are exposing others to airborne carcinogens.
Bless you for your input
@chefdaniel: You are quite right. People’s right to free speech and freedom of religion are constitutionally protected here, and the Constitution is something I feel very strongly about. Just as people’s right to say ‘bless you’ is protected by the First Amendment, so is my right to complain about it. I never said that they shouln’t be allowed to say it, just that it gets on my nerves. Your ‘go back to where you came from’ slur is also protected, and I defend your right to say it, however hurtful it was for me to read it. One of the great things about the First Amendment is that it allows a person to show their true colors and expose themself as a bigot. Remember that, unless you are Native American (like my wife, who was the reason I came here), your family were also immigrants once. In the five years that I have lived here, you are the only person who has ever suggested that I ‘self deport’ simply for saying something with which they disagreed (or indeed for any other reason). The Constitution applies to everybody, not just people who happen to be born here. Read your comment again, and think about whether you were respecting my First Amendment right to complain about people saying ‘bless you’.
@doctorbeat You are quite right about that freedom, which I have supported, in combat. You? I’m not saying you don’t have the right to freedom of expression and speech. I am saying you have no constitutional right to be agreed with. When you stick it out there, you should expect disagreement, sometimes quite vehemently. I was not directing this rant at you personally. I think that’s clear if you re-re-read the post. I made it clear that the self deporting concept also applies to people born here that are too ignorant or indoctrinated to appreciate the gift they’ve been given, not anything they have earned, and choose instead to whine and complain about what a horrible country the USA is. The “Occupy Wall Street” movement comes immediately to mind. I support their right to free speech, and risked my life proving that support. It doesn’t mean I have to agree with it or like it. If you’ve ever spent time in third world hell holes like Vietnam, Cambodia, Honduras, Haiti and the dozens of others too numerous to list, your appreciation for the beauty that is America would grow exponentially. If you’ve ever had an IED blow your best friend into paste three feet from you, you’d appreciate life even more. Especially when you consider that your friend was a native of Mexico and was serving in the Marine Corps to show how grateful he was to be allowed to live in the United States, and eventually be naturalized a citizen. If the United States is such a shit hole, why are hundreds of thousands of human beings willing to risk their lives traveling the ocean in bathtub “boats” or walking hundreds of miles across hostile desserts? Are you familiar with the deprivation the Vietnamese “Boat People” went through to get to the US? Do you think they have the time or self indulgent attitude to be offended by a “God Bless You”? Do you think after surviving that ordeal they would spend time whining about a “God Bless You” and then get their undies in wad when someone calls them out for whining? My point is: If you don’t like living here, there is nothing keeping you here. It is your choice. If you don’t like people saying “God Bless You” when you sneeze, fine. If you choose to put it out there in public, be prepared to reap what you sow. Bigot? Epic Fail. You don’t know me. You don’t know what charities I’ve donated money, time and work to. You weren’t with me in Haiti after the 2010 earthquake, feeding the victims. You weren’t sweating your ass off, in combat in the jungles of Vietnam, all the while helping the victims of aggression from the north. You didn’t volunteer to join the US Navy and The Marine Corps. The Constitution of The United States of America applies to citizens, naturalized or born here. It does not, never has and never will, apply to the global populations at large. If you are here on a visitors visa, resident workers visa or other guest passses, some, not all, of the rights guaranteed in The Constitution apply. That is why civilized countries have borders. At the risk of being redundant, I fully support and respect your right to freedom of speech under the First Amendment, which also says quite clearly: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Nothing in there that guarantees a right to be agreed with, freedom FROM religion or the FREE expression thereof. Please, express your opinion at every opportunity. I will emphatically exercise MY right to say “Bless You” anytime I damn well want to, and the invitation still stands: If it’s that bad here you are more than welcome to leave, NOT simply for saying something I happen to disagree with, it’s a suggestion and an invitation that you show appreciation for this wonderful country with all of its faults as well as its attributes, just as in any healthy relationship. If the differences become irreconcilable there is always the option of divorce.
God bless America.
@Cigshurtmylungs Well said.
God bless America, and those willing to sign a paper that states “up to and including your life.”
Getting shot at alters one’s perspective a great deal. So does getting spit on and called a baby killer when you get home to the world. And that shit came right out of our secretary of state’s putrid pie hole, under oath.
I don’t know how you managed to interpret my complaint about people saying ‘bless you’ as me hating America. Quite the opposite is true, and I am proud to call myself an American by choice. One minor correction; the Constitution does indeed apply to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. I have a letter from the government which clearly states that the I am protected by the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant rights, it affirms rights that all people are assumed to be born with (no matter where they are born). I respect what you have done for this country, but telling an immigrant to shut up or leave is bigoted no matter which way you look at it. My brother-in-law is a decorated Marine, and he’s never suggested that I am welcome to leave the country if I say something he doesn’t like. If your criterium for eligibility to live in the States is military service, then I can only apologize for not having chosen a career in the military. I did however (voluntarily) sign up for Selective Service, and attempted to join the Reserves, but missed the maximum enlistment age by a year (it was recenty reduced from 42 to 35). Obviously not a patch on your heroics, but I do believe that I fulfilled a moral obligation to throw my hat into the ring. Was your rant bigoted? I think so, even if you didn’t believe it to be. I was certainly very offended by it, as it appears that you were saying that I somehow have less right to be in this country, and should therefore be grateful and ‘know my place’. As I stated above, in my five years living here, this is the only time anyone has said anything like that to me. I think that says a lot about Americans in general, and something quite different about you in particular. While you did insert a disclaimer about your comments applying equally to people born here, I don’t think you would have brought up the subject of leaving the country had I not been an immigrant.
I don’t know how you managed to interpret my complaint about people saying ‘bless you’ as me hating America. Quite the opposite is true, and I am proud to call myself an American by choice. One minor correction; the Constitution does indeed apply to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. I have a letter from the government which clearly states that the I am protected by the Constitution. The Constitution does not grant rights, it affirms rights that all people are assumed to be born with (no matter where they are born). I respect what you have done for this country, but telling an immigrant to shut up or leave is bigoted no matter which way you look at it. My brother-in-law is a decorated Marine, and he’s never suggested that I am welcome to leave the country if I say something he doesn’t like. If your criterium for eligibility to live in the States is military service, then I can only apologize for not having chosen a career in the military. I did however (voluntarily) sign up for Selective Service, and attempted to join the Reserves, but missed the maximum enlistment age by a year (it was recenty reduced from 42 to 35). Obviously not a patch on your heroics, but I do believe that I fulfilled a moral obligation to throw my hat into the ring. Was your rant bigoted? I think so, even if you didn’t believe it to be. I was certainly very offended by it, as it appears that you were saying that I somehow have less right to be in this country, and should therefore be grateful and ‘know my place’. As I stated above, in my five years living here, this is the only time anyone has said anything like that to me. I think that says a lot about Americans in general, and something quite different about you in particular. While you did insert a disclaimer about your comments applying equally to people born here, I don’t think you would have brought up the subject of leaving the country had I not been an immigrant.
I think all he meant was… If you have a problem with the customs of Americans, their religious freedom, the way they act or speak or any complaints at all with America in general. You can always direct them to the worlds tiniest violin. You could also go live in Saudi with sharia law lol
And my point is that I am an American. Just because it happens to be by choice rather than birth does not mean that it’s ok to tell me to shut up and go home.
Just to distract you a little, consider this rather odd situation. The USA specifically guarantees freedom of religion, and also separation of Church and State in its constitution. The vast majority of its population self-identify as Christian, and to say publicly that you don’t believe in God is - as I understand it - political suicide. On the other hand, England is a specifically Christian country. It has a state church, governed by the Queen via Parliament. Some bishops sit as of right in our equivalent of the Senate. However, for a political candidate to publicise their Christianity - and certainly to be seen in any way to encourage others in their faith - would also be political suicide. Bless you all, you may now continue.
And my point is that I am an American. Just because it happens to be by choice rather than birth does not mean that it’s ok to tell me to shut up and go home.
Yes it does because some people don’t have dual citizenship I am Albanian I am American I was born in America, but I’ll still be the first to say if I ever start making complaints send my ass back home. It’s not your right to be in this country it’s a gift. Someone says god bless you so what. At least they didn’t chop off your head like all states governed by sharia law do
And my point is that I am an American. Just because it happens to be by choice rather than birth does not mean that it’s ok to tell me to shut up and go home.
I wanted to add, for the sheer fact of admitting you’re an atheist ( on a forum or in person ) in ANY state with sharia law would have you begging for someone to say god bless you. Americas the best man you just can’t see it cuz you’re standing on it ( I hate sharia law, I said it. It’s the most illogical ideology in 2014 by far ) I also hate jihadist extremists but I like plenty of Muslims… Go figure. Albania is like half muslim
Americas the best man you just can’t see it cuz you’re standing on it
I quite agree that America is far and away the best country in the world, and I don’t believe I ever said otherwise. I don’t see how the fact that I am slightly annoyed when people say ‘bless you’ is somehow analogous to hating America?
@doctorbeat You can interpret my post any way that suits your world view. I stand by my assertion that I am not a bigot. I am merely stating my opinion, guaranteed under the constitution, that you are not required to remain here. That could be construed as bigotry, I assert that it is pride in this country and the fact that it remains the last best hope for mankind. Once this noble experiment becomes a historical footnote, where will people go to escape tyranny? Five years’ residence here and you post: “Since moving to the States, it has got even worse. Complete strangers will say ‘bless you’ to you if you sneeze in a public space, or even more maddeningly, ‘God bless you’. As a snuff-taking atheist, I have developed a strong aversion to this ridiculous practice.” “Since moving to the States…” Not a ringing endorsement of your adopted country. To me, it sounds like a slam. Just my interpretation. Are you eligible to vote? I am not telling, suggesting or implying that an immigrant, any immigrant, shut up or leave the country. I never would consider that. What I am saying, clearly and unequivocally is that you should expect push back from people that find your comment about “Since moving to the States…” offensive. I don’t want anyone to shut up, and I welcome anyone who wants to live here in freedom and liberty and escape tyranny. I want everyone to state their opinions, with the knowledge that to expect some sort of sycophantic agreement is a fool’s errand. No one has the right to be tolerated, liked, appreciated or admired. If that is your expectation, you’re in the wrong species. Humans don’t behave that way. I have no criterium for eligibility to live anywhere you damn well please, veteran or not. As I said, I welcome everyone, and if you truly knew me, you’d take one look at one of my dinner parties and eat your words about bigotry. I am only saying, as a combat veteran, that I find any and all figurative or literal spitting on my country offensive. I guess you can tell I’m not a fan of Jane Fonda. If you want to dance naked in your back yard, it’s none of my concern. If you do it in my living room, I feel the need to get involved. If you come to my house for dinner and kick my dog, your welcome will end just as soon as they release you from the ER. You have as much right to be here as anyone, regardless of military service. That’s merely an insight to my perspective on patriotism. You also have the right to express your opinion. You should also expect that a comment like “Since moving to the States…” is bound to have an impact on someone with my experience. No one has a moral obligation to military service. It’s voluntary for a reason. Conscription leads to failure, volunteering leads to a professional military. I don’t fault anyone for not joining. Never have, never will. As a veteran I find it offensive for anyone, immigrant or otherwise, to nitpick this country as if we are all a bunch of ignorant rubes while the elite class looks at us with contempt. Bless Your Heart
@doctorbeat and @chefdaniel - you have managed to make each other sufficiently cross that you are both losing perspective… Daniel - doctorbeat is an atheist. It does therefore make sense that he finds ‘God bless you’ irritating. However, he has made it quite plain above that he values being an American, and he did make a conscious choice to go and live in the USA, which should suggest that you and he are fundamentally on the same side. doctorbeat - Daniel is an intensely patriotic and God-fearing American who wears his heart on his sleeve. His views on freedom of speech are robust but entirely consistent, and I don’t think for a moment he meant to suggest that you personally were unwelcome in the US. Take a large pinch and a deep breath please!
I said ‘since moving to America’ simply because it happens more often here. There are plenty of ‘bless you’s’ in the UK too, but there are more Christian people in the States, so the frequency went up. That was not a criticism of America. if anything, it was simply an observation that there are more religious people here than there are in the UK. If I was criticizing anything, it would be religion, not America. It is the right of any religious person to express their religion, but that doesn’t mean that I have to enjoy hearing about it. Conversely, although I don’t like to have religion forced down my throat, that doesn’t mean for a second that I would wish to take away that person’s right. I just don’t enjoy having to talk to strangers when I have snot pouring out of my face.
@Justin @doctorbeat I’m done. Justin is correct, as usual, and doctorbeat is a fine gentleman. My son is an atheist and I love him more than life itself. I’m finished with this, and done ranting. A HUGE spoonful of Pure Virginia Toast and all’s well with the world. Cheers
You know, this thread has opened my eyes somewhat. I still hate having to talk to people when I have just sneezed, especially if I don’t know them, but my opinion has changed somewhat. Having heard it from the perspective of others, I now acknowledge that people often say ‘bless you’ and really mean it. I always thought it was just a stupid ‘good manners’ ritual that refused to die, but now I see that it is more genuine than that. Another observation that I have made when comparing Americans to the British is that there seem to be a much higher percentage of genuinely nice people here. You always hear about NY’ers being rude, but I have seen the exact opposite on many occasions. I remember about a year ago, my car broke down so I had to walk to the laundromat with a huge bag of laundry. During the mile or so walk, two people pulled over and asked if I needed a ride. I don’t think that would have happened in the UK, at least not the part where I’m from. So no, I don’t hate America, I love it. I am proud to call myself an American because, on the whole, Americans are an admirable people. @chefdaniel: Let’s agree to disagree about matters of religion, and agree to agree that America is the greatest country on Earth. Can we go back to being friends now? I’m having a pinch of HDT. That should get me a few ‘bless you’s’
@doctorbeat We never stopped being friends. We’re friends with differing opinions. That’s why I like you so much. Cheers PS HDT. Yum. I’m in quality control mode with batch #2 of Pure Virginia Toast, so my HDT is crying in the corner from being ignored. I’ll have to remedy that.
Well that’s something we agree on Cheers. Oh, and bless you!
Well that’s something we agree on Cheers. Oh, and bless you!
Darn I was enjoying the scuffle
This forum used to a nice place, now most of the time it’s full of people bickering over nothing. This ‘argument’ had finished, everybody was friends again, which is brilliant! But then of course someone else needs to try and have the last word. Why do people see the need to pick fights in cyberspace on a niche forum? This is a forum about snuff and snuff related issues, not for hating on people, bitching, complaining or name calling. If thats what you want to do then fuck off somewhere else. Grow up, I’ve had enough.
@koba22 Amen brother! (And I say “Amen” being an agnostic and brother being white and Galician, it’s that right? 8-} :P) I’ve said that before: before I joined I lurked this forum extensively and it seemed earthly paradise. Then I join and it turns into a bloody arena. C’mon, tell me it’s not my fault! (Just kidding, but seriously, chill out everyone. It’s good for your health at so many levels. It’s even good for other Snuffhouse members health, specially for mods and people that make sure we don’t kill each other).
I think we’ll stop things there. Move along now, nothing else to see.