Well, we had quite a discussion about FUBAR and attendant issues, mostly started by a few scathing comments of mine. I hope I have ‘explained’ myself now and that there is no lingering disharmony on this most excellent site. As I have said, I defend robustly the right to review both negatively and positvely and I do feel there is a place for grumpy old men like me to occasionaly be grumpy. However, I also recognise (and love) the unique style of this site in that there is for the most part a gentility here that is rare to say the least. Let me say now, I love and respect our re-vitalised snuff industry and remember the days when snuffing seemed to be a dying thing; of course you are business people and of course there may be times when I as a consumer feel the need to disagree or review in a negative sense, but all of our resident business guys are ethical in every way and I would certainly modify any comment I have made that seemed to suggest otherwise. Disonhest? No. Room for improvement? Yes, as for us all. Enough of that. I have started this thread purely because a comment that Juxtaposer made seemed so important - selling or aiming snuff sales at the younger market. I know no one is suggesting that it is sold to minors, but maybe there is room or need for discussion? As Juxtaposer said, this site is very much a think tank for snuffing.

My daughter is sixteen in two weeks and she has been smoking for about a year and is sadly hooked on the horrible things, now i know i should not engourage her too use any tobacco products and i have no wish to offend but i would prefer her to snuff instead of smoking, we have a long family history of respiratory illness. I have lost many loved ones to smoking related disease both granparents who raised me died horribly on oxygen cylinders and both my mother and brother have COPD my mum has given up for three years and brother is currently in hospital because he can’t give up. Every time he goes into hospital he gets better because he can’t smoke in there, then he goes home to his flat where he lives alone and starts smoking again. When he comes out this time he is coming to live with us and our house is a non smoking environment so i hope he finally quits. My worst fear is that my daughter will also develop health problems related to smoking and it will ruin her quality of life. So when i find some of my snuff missing i don’t look too hard for it enough said.

Thats really hard and I send my best wishes to your family - I lost a brother a couple of years ago. He found he had difficulty swallowing at Christmas and passed away 6 weeks later with a morphine pump on each leg so doped he didn’t even know who he was. It was purely and simply down to the cigarettes that he couldn’t give up. I struggle with any suggestion of getting young people into tobacco - but converting those already hooked on cigs to snuff is a positive thing. Despite the fact that snuff is (probably) almost completely harmless I think the snuff buisness world has to tread carefully. Snuff has the better press of any tobacco product at the moment but thats because its seen as a viable quitting product by some people. Any suggestion that youth is being targetted would not go down well. And I am not for a second saying any of our business buddies are doing that, just talking about perceptions.

Thanks snuffster my brother admits its mostly because he’s lonely so hopefully being in a family home will help him out plus he will have free access to my snuff collection. The only comments i have had are about the Toque tins as some people have associated it with toke n pass which many youngsters are familiar with but once i have explained to the cretins they have seemed to lose interest. In general my experience of others views has suprised me as many people have thought i was doing something illegal when snuffing although that could also be to do with their perceptions of how i look as i have had people stop and ask me if could sell them drugs and other stupid things. I disagree strongly with encouraging young people to take up tobacco but like you wish many more smokers would switch to snuffing. I think its a bit of a paradox as while snuff will benefit from a more modern image its the rich history and those beautiful old fashioned tins that i find so attractive.

It’s unrealistic for parents of smoking teens to insist their teens stop smoking and feel self righteous and preach to others who allow tobacco use in a somewhat controllable fashion. Their kids haven’t stopped smoking, they’ve only stopped being honest about it. That’s like stopping their kids from having sex by taking their condoms away, congratulations might soon be in order on the new grandchildren. My 17 yr old smokes and I’ve been unsuccessful at trying to get him to switch to snuff, so far. I hate the thought of him smoking in the first place much less smoking the chemically manipulated cancer sticks, but I can’t police him 24/7.

You are right, you can’t insist anyone stops smoking, certainly no one could do that to me and I was a teen smoker too.

Absolutely right you can’t control other people i have to work hard enough controlling myself, i guess all you can do is lead by example and demonstrate that there is another way.

Thats very interesting stuff, none of which I’d seen before. Thinking about it, I know a lot of ‘chippers’ and in actual fact I regard myself as one now - my previous tobacco usage was heavy cigarette addiction now I’ve converted that to daily snuff use and the very occasional cig, but weirdly I can leave snuff for a day, not smoke, and feel no discomfort. Addiction is a strange and powerful thing and often missed by the studies is the massive amount of variables when it comes to individuals.

I think I was addicted to nicotine long before I ever had my first dip or smoke. My father was a heavy smoker from before I was born. Both of his parents died from lung problems due to smoking. Most of the family on my mothers side used tobacco. So, I got it from both sides. My father quit smoking when I was 13 after braking his ribs and nearly coughing himself to death. I think not having the second hand smoke around pushed me over the edge and I started dipping. I don’t know if I would have gotten so deep into tobacco if they had the age restrictions they do now. Also, if smoking had not been allowed in high school. It probably would not have made a deference because I was already hooked.

Age restrictions are a bunch of phoooey bullshit. education and self control are the key. The fact that tobacco was ILLEGAL was why it was so fun for me to do when i was younger (14 and up). If your a parent or anybody else you should just be glad your kids/friends/family/etc. decided to be sneaky and use tobacco or alcohol instead of do far worse things to entertain their young bored minds. Also there aren’t many things that are going to kill you if you use in moderation, but that can be reversed as well to just about anything can kill you (or at least ruin your life) if you over indulge. Anyway thats my two cents

Defiantely not prohibition in fact maybe were coming at this from the wrong angle i recall reading somewhere that nicotine helps prevent Alzheimer’s disease so who knows there might come a time in the future where snuff is recomended for health purposes wouldn’t that be something?

LOL! Now that I LIKE! Tom

I’ve often wondered that too, even I don’t like me when I don’t get my nicotine. My temper gets a little out of control without it.

I agree completely about being ‘addicted’ before you even start. I had a real ambition to use tobacco because I would see all my relatives, brothers using it as a kid. When I got older and got into music and saw my favourite musicians smoking, I was hooked and there was no way I was not going to do it. No prohibtion will ever work if people want to do something. The only thing that might stop kids is the general trend of just making smoking impossible in public, on tv anywhere but in private. Certainly when I was an 18 year old kid playing in a band etc you could not have educated me out of smoking for the sinple reason that I didn’t give a shit. The thing educators miss is that teenagers think they will live forever.

So are we going to let the kids roll bill straws and toot gobs of tobacco? Or are we going to educate them on the finer points of snuff enjoyment? I understand you can sell a hell of a lot of snuff to youngsters using straws. But isn’t this an aberration or am I missing something here? I have never snuffed through a tube so I’m just using my own logic here. Is this where snuff is headed? Anyone with experience please explain to me what I am missing as I am not about to try this myself.

education is key. Yes many teens think they are invincible but most of them really seem to be what I called at the time pussies.

This is complex stuff, and its mixing morality with buisness which in itself is a fairly complex issue. My main position is that I am an adult tobacco user without too many concerns about it. I use a form thats fairly harmless and as long as I can get it without too much trouble Im happy. But as a parent, I don’t think there should be any drive at all to influence any young person to use tobacco in any form. I would like a position where society - and the health freaks and medical world - woke up to the fact that there is a form of tobacco that is relatively safe and that it may be a choice that smoking addicts should be made more aware of. I wouldn’t make sparkly rockets and packages with the stated aim to appeal to young people, because that will also appeal to kids. In the legal world, which as a cop I see the criminal side of - its become common for lawyers to google people before court to get anything on them that may be of use. We haven’t had a snuff litigation yet, but I would be really wary if I was a manufacturer or supplier about saying anything on the net about angling buisness towards younger people. My bottom line is that so we adults can enjoy snuff for evermore, we don’t want snuff being messed about with, so the whole thing needs to be kept tight and above board so ur simple pleasure remains available, unscrutinised and not hassled.

Agree completely, my points are purely about perceptions and not having your business or our pleasure messed about with - It seems tobacco stands on a knife edge at the moment.

On a lighter note… Just thinking about ‘snorting’ Rooster through a rolled up dollar bill makes my head hurt and my eyes water!

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooggggghhhhhhhhhhh!..dont.

@bakdoor, me too lol. @Juxta and everyone else really, I don’t think that when they say they’re targeting younger people that they’re talking about people under 18, i’m assuming they’re talking more 18-25 or somewhere around there.

Yes me too 18-25 = kids!

Tobacco truly is on a knife edge but diseases like Alzheimer’s and other forms of dementia are massively on the increase and goverments do not want to spend huge amounts of money on treating them. Most things in life are cyclical what was bad 20 years ago is good for you today and vice versa clearly the cheapest and perhaps safest solution is prevention via snuff. I saw a news report recently highlighting these illnesses in the under 50’s that was really disturbing. My prediction is that we are on the crest of a wave and that snuff will gain popularity to such an extent over the next 10 years that we all end up paying a lot more for it.

If the SCHIP bill that is to be voted on this week passes, you will be paying a LOT more and quite soon. Tobacco tax of 156 percent!!! Tom

This is very interesting. I will not give up nicotine for medical reasons. I have switched to snus, and soon will add snuff to my mix. Up until the tobacco settlement, no serious scientist would study nicotine, it was just too politically charged. But after the settlement, it seemed to lift the self imposed restrictions on nicotine study. One of the first was on teenagers with ADHD. Scientists had noticed that about 73% of teenagers with ADHD, that compared to 23% in the general population. Scientists had assumed there was something about ADHD that made the teenagers smoke, but as they looked at the data, they realized it might be something in the nicotine. Followup studies have since proven that nicotine is about as effective as Ritalin in treating ADHD. I know, in my own case, it makes a HUGE difference. As a meth head from the late 8-'s, I simply won’t use amphetamines to treat my ADHD, so I keep using nicotine. http://www.trdrp.org/research/PageGrant.asp?grant\\_id=3960 http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archive/Potter\\_nicotine.pdf http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100144050 http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/200.html

Definatly helps keep me from killing people. I’am Bipolar and I do not need no A.M.A. (american Magicians assosiation)to tell me that nicotine keeps my swings on a more even keel. In fact all I need is to see what happens when I have quit for a long time.