'The Great Georgian Snuff Debate'

Anyone else stumble upon this one? https://dralun.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/the-great-georgian-snuff-debate/

We’re used to debates about tobacco. In any given week it’s a fair bet that smoking/cigarettes/e-cigarettes will be food for editorial thought. What the UK’s Guardian recently called a ‘global epidemic of tobacco’ is, according to their statistics, a bigger killer than Malaria, TB and AIDS…combined. Recent scare stories have surrounded e-cigarettes, prompting tabloids to ruminate over the question of whether they might even act as baby steps to full-strength cigs. The central problem with tobacco is its undoubted potential to kill. We think of this as a modern debate about a modern affectation. But, in fact, debates about the healthiness of tobacco have raged for centuries. Three hundred years ago, snuff was at the centre of the storm. One of the most quintessential emblems of the eighteenth century dandy or fop is the snuffbox. By the mid eighteenth century the practice was ubiquitous…and not to everyone’s taste. In 1754 a disgruntled reader known only as ‘T’ wrote to the editors of the Connoisseur magazine, complaining about the practice. “Dear Sir, I know not if you yourself are addicted to a filthy practice frequent amongst all ranks of people. The practice I mean is that of snuff-taking…[everyone] appears obliged to cram his nostrils with a quantity of scented dirt to fence them from the disagreeable effluvias of the rest of the company… It is indeed impossible to go into any large company without being disturbed by this abominable practice. The church and the whole playhouse continually echo with this musick of the nose, and in every corner you may hear them in concert, snuffling, sneezing, hawking and grunting like a drove of hogs’. To illustrate his point further, ‘T’ claimed to have witnessed ‘a whole congregation suddenly raised from their knees in the middle of a prayer by the violent coughing of an old lady, who has been almost choaked by a pinch of snuff in giving vent to an ejaculation’! Any lady who succumbed to this vile practice was, in their view, no better than a serving wench. Why, then, was snuff so apparently popular? Snuff first came to Europe in the 16th century and was first advocated as a medicinal product, being used to treat headaches and other conditions. Snuff was manufactured from cured and Tobacco leaves were slowly cured and fermented, and certain ‘flavours’ could be added. Snuff quickly found favour amongst wealthy elites, with prominent advocates including Queens, Popes, nobility and prominent society figures. By the eighteenth century everyone from George IV to Samuel Johnson were hawking vast quantities of powdered tobacco up their nostrils. Advertisments promoted special types of snuff. The ‘Golden Snuff’ advertised in the Daily Courant in 1704 counted headache, drowsiness, dullness of hearing and humours in the eye amongst the list of afflictions readily cured. Also of use in ‘Gouty and Rhewmatick paines and for asswaging swellings’, its manufacturers also claimed that ‘it never decays’.Medical authors were divided on the subject. Thomas Apperley’s Observations in Physick considered the potential benefits of a small pinch of snuff against certain conditions, but was cautious of the effects in ‘one not accustomed to it’. In a 1790 Account of Several Excellent and Genuine Patent and Public Medicines a writer known as ‘Castor’ extolled the virtues of the ‘Cephalic Snuff’ in treating ‘hysteric and paralytic complaints’ as well as the ‘Complaints of the Head that Painters &c are subject to’! Others were far less than convinced. In his 1799 Essay on Regimen James McKittrick Adair railed against the practice of snuff taking, since ‘encrusted snuff impedes the breathing’ while ‘acrid, poisonous oil’ produced by nasal mucous could be highly injurious to the stomach. Adair suggested that the ‘use of tobacco in any form is a vile practice’ and that sniffers of snuff should cleanse their nostrils and wash their mouths with warm water. Dr Allen’s Synopsis of Medicine from 1730 condemned the ‘inordinate use of snuff’ for apoplexy and others cautioned people to beware of the damage that ingesting snuff could cause. In 1720 an anonymous Dissertation on the Use and Abuse of Tobacco in relation to the Smoaking, Chewing and Taking of Snuff, and was ‘humbly subscrib’d to the Ladies and Gentlemen who use it in the Above ways’. In 1760 Edward Baynard wrote a whole book of poetry about snuff, titled Health: to which are added cautions agains the immoderate use of snuff, devoting 36 densely written pages to his task. Snuff was under attack. Part of the problem for naysayers of snuff was its popularity. Snuff had become a social ritual, and one popular at all levels of society. Taking a pinch had become embedded in popular culture, and with it came a secondary market in snuff paraphernalia. Snuff boxes, for example, became increasingly elaborate and ornate. As such they were high up the list of desirable items for pickpockets. In 1688 one Claudius Bertin was relieved of a gilt ‘Princes Mettle snuff box’ valued at thirty shillings. Two snuff boxes stolen from the house of the wealthy Don Diego Capyllar in September 1692 were valued at over £5 alone – then a princely sum. Jewellers and makers made a wide variety of boxes in precious metals and bedight with jewels and ornamentation. In 1765 a Mr Burnsall of London begged leave to keen to acquaint the public of the wide range of goods, including ‘Agate snuff boxes richly set in gold’ that he had for sale in his London shop. Fans of the product even took to the newspapers to defend their favourite ‘tipple’. A poem found inside an 18th-century recipe collection provided, taken from the Chester newspaper of 1761, proselytized about the power of snuff to lighten the day and preserve the health. The first three verses should be enough to give a flavour: ‘Six reasons for taking a pinch of snuff When strong perfumes and noisome scents The suffering nose invade Snuff, best of Indian weeds presents Its salutary aid When vapours swim before ye eyes And cloud the Dizzy breath Snuff, to dispel the might applies Its quick enlivening grain When pensively we sit or walk Each social friend away Snuff best supplies the want of talk And cheers the lonely day’. Snuff-taking continued unabated into the nineteenth century; ‘celebrity’ snuffers included Benjamin Disraeli, but the practice gradually declined as it became increasingly viewed as an antiquated relic of the past. Whilst it is still possible to buy snuff today, it is unlikely, given its many nasty side effects including mouth and throat cancer. Unless someone bothers to invent ‘e-snuff’, which seems equally unlikely, then it seems best to consign it to history. Nonetheless, it does provide us with a useful means to look at how people dealt with addictions, and in particular tobacco use, in the past.

Of course ^this^ broad conclusion stood out to me. Probably a passable article in the end…

The Guardian won’t publish on anything without a nannying, bien-pensant homily at the end, usually misinformed.

Entertaining read. True I rarely get headaches but had one the other day when on a course and had no snuff then. Halfway through reading this I had a great urge to cram my nostrils (Mull of Oa) without so much as a sneeze hawk or grunt. Bit of an after snuffle and not to long after the inevitable nose trumpet which I imagine on mass would be pretty irritating. First pinch of the day can be most enjoyable. I chose Mull of Oa to set me up for my Islay Whiskey Snus liking a heavy morning flavour hit with my coffee/tea to get my head “spun up”. I threw away all my e-cig paraphernalia after I became very ill with what could be COPD and recently read an article in the Daily Mail were it was reported that mice experiments showed the potential of vaping to be a cause which most commenters mocked but I was not thinking of mocking it. That’s why I threw all my e-cig stuff away as I would not take the risk of giving it to some-one else just in case the particular juices or whatever could cause the same to them. Still early days for e-cigs but I think it will transpire that they are not entirely safe perhaps especially to long term smokers like I was who admittedly were probably on the verge of COPD anyhow. It’s only vapour but it’s still something foreign to your lungs and blocking them from performing their oxygen gathering function. I hope they are safe for anyone else. I still give snuff out to anyone interested so I guess this is because I don’t believe it is very harmful if at all though it’s up to folks how much and however they use it and moderation is a good rule although can be difficult to adhere to. Whatever, the tide is surely turning against smoking. Overall glad I quit but some part of me I think will always miss it too but as it’s encountered less and less it will grow further from my mind. I suppose people who don’t use tobacco justifiably wonder why anyone bothers with it after all they don’t need/desire it Probably is largely psychosomatic ? A sort of comforter I think? Simply a habit? Something to do? Is this just our weak/feeble side? For non-tobacco users it’s something else that is their weakness? Discuss…

Some one asked me the other day why I use snuff. I said “It’s there. I like it. Asking me why I use snuff is like asking me why I drink alcohol. I like it.”

Yeah forgot that one @igglet. To obvious! Guess I need to take some more. Still not awake yet. How would I live without Snuffhouse. Suppose what I was really wondering though is why do we like it? Because it’s there is one suggestion but it’s sort of lacking weight as a reason. Not going to impress the person who asks us. Probably all some sort of scientific brain signal/receptor dopamine gubbins so basically we don’t know but it might be good to baffle them with some science? Or helps my headaches that I get from people asking me that question.

I tend to like stimulants do to my sleepy personality. Back when I use to game people use to tell me I sounded half asleep. I may take a lot of naps if I weren’t constantly ingesting stimulants. All legal ones by the way. I prefer snuff too cigarettes due to the subduing nature of the chemicals in smoke and, the more pure intake of nicotine in snuff. I tried vaping but, I also had negative side effects from the vapor.

I actually put the question to my doctor at my last appointment as he would definitely prefer if I abstained from anything tobacco although he probably advocates patches and gum i.e why do we like nicotine is what I asked specifically rather than tobacco but I could easily have asked why tobacco and I then answered the question myself in that it simply is a mild stimulant and you just reminded me of that @igglet. Maybe I’m finally waking up. Good an answer as any. It’s a mild stimulant that we like. When asked by a nurse recently I said it was just something that I enjoyed and found relaxing so somehow it can be a relaxing stimulant? in moderation. The asker always tends to still look baffled though. The look of I still don’t get it. Why, why… How could you do this to yourself? Another answer (explanation, excuse) I sometimes give is, “I used/use snuff to stop smoking”. That usually fends them off quite well but the truth is of course as above. Guess that one wouldn’t have worked back in Georgian Times. Cheers the lonely day as in the poem is quite good although a bit sad. Snuff best supplies the want of talk. This must be true as I notice people not on snuff don’t want to talk or at least not compared to me rabbiting on, like now. They do seem sort of half dead and want to return undisturbed to their zombie state so I guess we’re not really getting with the general program.

Thanks We snuff takers march to the beat of a different drum. I could care less what society thinks. Who give anyone the right to judge others yet try to control their choices of pleasure activities. “no better than a serving wench” I agree everyone is, no matter what position you hold . to look down on people is just wrong . I came from nothing and to nothing I will return. It’s the random acts of kindness by selflessly helping others without being found out or rewarded that is difficult. Remember when you point a finger there are three pointing back at you. I suffer from untreated chronic fatigue syndrome almost to the point of narcolepsy .Or I might have that too. I need to get some stimulants , Pots of coffee and various high caffeine drinks just to lift the fog.I don’t know what would become of me if I abstained from nicotine. But I am sure it wouldn’t be pretty. That artical remined me of : National Association for the Advance of Fat People https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWdik29MTrE

While there’s no doubt about the quoted article being an interesting and well-written read, it suffers from two sever faults: the first one is the lack of sources: while I would love to know more about Capyllar and Bertin, I had to search for the records of their cases myself, which I found to be readily available online. If sources are just one click away, and the article obviously feeds from them, I find their absence to be an act of laziness. An act I would forgive, of course, if it wasn’t for the gruesomely misinformed conclussion. Or is it not that way? Well, I don’t know, thanks to the severe lack of sources! Two problems in one that could be prevented just appending some cites.

Yeah, shame about the faceplant at the end, and sources/links would indeed have added some credibility.

https://dralun.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/the-great-georgian-snuff-debate/ https://dralun.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/woman-taking-snuff.jpg?w=504&h=300 Is that @basement_shaman in the article? lol. sorry, couldn’t help it.

@I_snuff_therefore___ How do you like me now ? She is lovely, The trick of getting some is to go ugly early. Be like Jack Black in Shallow Hal.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMLZnY2nLcw

She’s, I mean you’re kinda cute … in a sort of terrifying way. Cool new pic thingy. Cheers, that’s funny. Even scarier as my screen saver! this is me http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/18/15/28CF398F00000578-3086285-A\_senior\_Dani\_seeing\_to\_tobacco\_plants\_along\_the\_path\_leading\_to-a-9\_1431958158371.jpg