I have recently come to the knowledge that Bernard’s Schmalzler includes ‘fresh bull skin’ in the production process thanks to another thread. this, (and the lack of advertised information ive seen on the subject) naturally worries me, as i myself have made the choice to be a vegetarian to the point of using vegetarian soap (thankfully ive not made schmalzler into a product i use). this same thread brought to light (for myself) Toque’s claim of natural ingredients (as in, not synthesised). Seeing my little jar of peanut butter im about to try is scented with ‘natural’ ingredients, i am wondering as to why it does not include a warning to peanut allergy sufferers. basically, my question to @Roderick is, from a vegetarian/vegan standpoint, and from the standpoint of a serious allergy sufferer (not myself, yet, but i appear to be developing one to coconut and large quantities of unprocessed peanuts), what snuffs in your range are to avoid? the general question to everyone else is, do you know of snuffs that may not be suitable for certain persons, and what are your views on labelling/using products that may not be suitable for everyone?
Pick your poison.I choose tobacco . health conscientiousness is Ok, not to put yourself in harms way. Snuff is safe there are plenty of warning on packaging ,Do you need more ? If it has the word nut in the name of the product; then If your allergic to nut do not buy or use. I am allergic to alcohol, I do not buy or consume anything that may have alcohol in it ,example rum cake they say it cooks off, but I won’t put the world in harms way. To be absolutely certain the snuff you are consuming is safe you should not purchase any. Just grow your own tobacco and grind and scent it yourself. snuff said!
Pick your poison.I choose tobacco . health conscientiousness is Ok, not to put yourself in harms way. Snuff is safe there are plenty of warning on packaging ,Do you need more ? If it has the word nut in the name of the product; then If your allergic to nut do not buy or use. I am allergic to alcohol, I do not buy or consume anything that may have alcohol in it ,example rum cake they say it cooks off, but I won’t put the world in harms way. To be absolutely certain the snuff you are consuming is safe you should not purchase any. Just grow your own tobacco and grind and scent it yourself. snuff said!
well the thing is, i know there are nut flavour and meat flavour (look at walkers crisps[‘lay’s’ i think for americans]) things that are just that, flavour. they are suitable for allergy sufferers/vegetarians. im not vegetarian for health reasons, believe me, the amount of fat i consume in cheese is incredible, im always eating pasta, pizza dishes etc (usually self made). im vegetarian because i can survive without the need for farmed and killed animals, and enjoy vegetarian food enough, so thats what i do. it just concerns me a bit particularly in the case of the bernard’s that something incompatible with my diet choice is done, with no warning. its akin to somebody treating vegetables with fresh bull skin for whatever reason, and not alerting the consumer, or processing food with nuts without warning of it. snuff is not something you associate with an animal product.
I guess snuff is kind of taboo and strange enough that there is really not that much information out there. I feel that there is little information on how various snuffs are produced and flavored. I am not snuffing for my health, but like you, I wish there were some avenue to find out how certain snuffs are made and how they are flavored. I think the thread I started was the one that had the image of the bull skin. Anyway, I’m in line with you in that I just wish there was more information out there. It seems that Roderick is quite open about Toque and responds on here to these types of things. So at least we can get some information straight from the horse when it comes to Toques.
I think you are taking it a little over the top. Refusing to use snuff that was transported in a bull skin is the same as refusing to shake hands with anyone who is wearing a leather jacket. There are no animal products of any kind in any snuff as far as I am aware, (The exception may be honey). All of Bernards ingredients are posted on the German health ministry website, I’m sure someone has the link, and can post it below. Also because you have seen one image of tobacco being transported in a bull skin you are assuming that this is a current and standard industry practice. That’s a big leap of logic. I personally refuse to consume any dairy product for health reasons, though I do consume meat. If you do some research you’ll find that dairy is far more harmful to human health than meat is. I however, have no ethical stance against dairy consumption. There is a clear distinction. Keep in mind though that if you are refusing to consume beef for ethical reasons, but consume dairy, its standard industry practice to turn retired dairy cows into beef, as well as all their male offspring. So all dairy cows become beef cows at some point. Having said that, I don’t avoid Toque Cheese & Bacon because it is scented with cheese. I’m quite confident there is no cheese in there, otherwise it would spoil. I do avoid it because it smells/tastes nasty!
Some fertilizers for organic vegetables include; blood meal, fish meal, crab meal, and feather meal. So yes it is akin to storing tobacco in bull skins and not mentioning it.
I think you are taking it a little over the top. Refusing to use snuff that was transported in a bull skin is the same as refusing to shake hands with anyone who is wearing a leather jacket. There are no animal products of any kind in any snuff as far as I am aware, (The exception may be honey). All of Bernards ingredients are posted on the German health ministry website, I’m sure someone has the link, and can post it below. Also because you have seen one image of tobacco being transported in a bull skin you are assuming that this is a current and standard industry practice. That’s a big leap of logic.
The shaking hands with someone in a leather jacket isnt really relevant, since i am not putting their hand into my body, i am not consuming it (hopefully). if somebody wishes to wear a leather jacket thats fine, i just wish to avoid consuming/using the products i know to be created with/from animal myself. since i am doing this from an ethical/personal reasoning, it is a situation where i will live without these things so long as it does not impact my health seriously, or reduce my enjoyment of life to nil. for example, if i was told by a qualified doctor following tests/obvious symptoms that a severe decline in health was due to my diet, then i would adjust the diet as necessary, trying to factor in enough of the food i have cut off without consuming much more than necessary. Also i am not assuming it is standard industry practice, it has just been brought to my attention that it happens without much warning/labelling, and i would like to be made aware when a product is not suitable. i find it slightly silly when a product is forced to say on it that it ‘may’ cause cancer, but it is not a requirement to issue such a warning when a product could cause serious allergic reactions (that is, if it isnt a requirement) that result in immediate hospitalisation or death. i used to live with a girl that couldnt touch water or utensils that had been used to wash/cook with pesto or nut products. she kept her allergy stuff in her room and in the shared kitchen for us just in case. My girlfriend also works in a place where a member of staff was hospitalised because she used a microwave that had been used with nuts (i believe it was nuts, may have been something else).
@Firestarter0 - So, in answer to your question, there are likely no peanuts whatsoever in Toque Peanut Butter, no traces of Cheese and Bacon in the Toque variant, no cherry pieces in Samuel Gawith Cherry, etc… but they all use natural flavors, so how do they get those flavors into the tobacco? By and large it is via the use of distillates from the original product. Some are known as essential oils, some as distillates, but in concept they are all the same - only the scent-producing compounds of the target are used. Allergies are commonly to proteins, and there are no proteins in the distillate. For example, one that is allergic to sunflowers can still consume sunflower oil that has been pressed and filtered as no proteins remain in the end product - only liquefied fats. To get the scent, several distillation mediums can be used to extract scent compounds from flowers, fruits, vegetables, etc. The ones that come to mind easiest are boiling water, alcohol and expeller-pressing for extraction. In the case of Violets for example, the actual flowers are placed in alcohol which is boiled at 176 degrees Fahrenheit and the steam is then collected by a coil and condensed. The alcohol is then drawn off and the remaining liquid consists of scent compounds (ie essential oils). When used with a target occurring in nature, it can be referred to as “natural flavoring”. Tangentially, I highly doubt Schmalzers use bull skin for transport any longer. Bull skin has more value as leather, and there are certainly sanitary issues to consider.
Also, since Schmalzers do contain real fruit, it would be best to avoid those if you are allergic to any of the fruits listed by Poschl.
yes, it makes me curious however since such products that are flavoured like meat but are vegetarian, may also say natural flavours. so in the case of c&b im still left wondering.
The Schmalzler is a mix of Brasil tobacco and special tobacco made of the so-called mangotes. Mangotes are tobacco leaves weaved into thick ropes in Brasil. They come freshly from the field, get weaved and pressed with special sauces. In the end they are sewed into fresh bull skin. These packages weigh up to 80 kilos. Now they are imported to Germany, where they age in a long process. Whenever they are needed, the skins are cut up, the ropes cut into pieces and mixed with the fermented Brasil tobacco. - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/259135/#Comment\_259135
im assuming in keeping with tradition and consitency of the product it is still the same method. since these packages are stored like this for a period of time (though this is really irrelevant, its still used) that it would definitely contain traces in the case of the schmalzler. as far as c&b is concerned, im sure i read somewhere that it came about from the scent people noticed in the snuffs like bourbon, where the smoky toast scent reminded them of bacon. this makes me wonder wether that natural scent was taken advantage of, and maybe just cheese was added? Finally, looking at the points i italicised, this also makes me wonder about the schmalzler sold as ‘brazil’. does it contain this bull skin tobacco, or is it the brasil tobacco they refer to, before being blended? i feel i am just awaiting actual input from manufacturers here, so i will have to contact Bernard, and wait for @Roderick. Also @hdsale, you make a good point about the fruits.
@Firestarter0 - @Roderick from Toque is active on the forum and Im sure he will weigh in once he sees the callouts. I personally dont think cheese is added to the snuff - its probably an extraction which has some of the 30 or so lipid breakdown compounds (by micro-organisms and mold) that make the cheese smell the way it does. If there was cheese in there, it would spoil and need refrigeration. Interesting thread!
I’ve read with interest what has been said here and although our flavours are distillates, I would not put our PB snuff in my nose if I were allergic to nuts. My wife is a medical scientist yet she still has concerns regarding a lot of what is ‘scientifically proven’ and will always er on the side of caution. We need more common sense. I wouldn’t go as far as putting warnings on our products, as I feel the choice is yours. I also have to add that I find it incredible that we have got to the point where a bag of nuts has the warning “May contain nuts”. I do worry for our overly protected youth/society. Someone really needs to ban Health and Safety.
completely agree with you on the marking of bags of actual nuts, its just that the ability to flavour things, even naturally, without any traces of the original thing its being flavoured after, (eg. bacon crisps etc containing no bacon, and using no bacon anywhere in production) creates much confusion when something that isnt a problem product is said to be flavoured like one, without labelling info. the choice is ours? i dont see why this would be better with no labelling, information would make choices easier. finally, what about the cheese and bacon?
Cheese is made with calf stomachs and not labeled as so. Yes, there are cheeses that are vegetarian. Some labels list rennet as an ingredient but not wether animal or vegetable. Did you see my post above? I’m just wondering because you seem to think you are a vegetarian but you are interested in eating bacon flavored foods that have no bacon that does still morally support the slaughter of pigs which would make the labeling of it as vegetarian a joke.
i know, i only pick cheeses that are marked as vegetarian or i know are vegetarian, and i am just using bacon crisps as an example, its the c&b snuff im interested in (but i wont bother with it if its not suitable). i also dont believe that eating bacon flavour foods that dont contain bacon would be supporting the slaughter of pigs… it contains no pig! it also fits my diet perfectly- i can live and enjoy life as much as any other person without consuming meat etc.
I’m the one who posted that picture of a mangote in the other thread. Starting to regret it already. I have to dissagree about the warning on the packaging. The manufactorer has it cleary stated on his website about the usage of fresh cowhides. It’s where I found that picture actually. Here is the link http://www.poeschl-tobacco.com/schmalzler-herstellung.html To be clear the hides aren’t used for tranportation only, they are used for letting the tobacco ropes ferment in. Very long time actually for Schmalzler. It’s what makes a Schmalzler a Schmalzler. I for one prefer my consumption goods beign stored in natural and safe packaging rather then in some kind of plastic/metal (which leaks dangerous and cancerous chemicals). To all members join me and take out your favorite Schmalzler and snuff it, post it afterwards in the What’s in your nose thread.
I’m the one who posted that picture of a mangote in the other thread. Starting to regret it already.
why regret it, its triggered some interesting info.
I have to dissagree about the warning on the packaging. The manufactorer has it cleary stated on his website about the usage of fresh cowhides. It’s where I found that picture actually. Here is the link
i see what you mean… im just confused as to why i havent found this info before, i usually research the hell out of things. i guess its since i havent specifically looked at schmalzler as a separate entity to snuff, as i didnt realise there was that much difference.
I for one prefer my consumption goods beign stored in natural and safe packaging rather then in some kind of plastic/metal (which leaks dangerous and cancerous chemicals).
natural doesnt always mean safe. im sure glass/wood/the right metals/plastics could be safer than the mangotes? but thats not the point here.
To all members join me and take out your favorite Schmalzler and snuff it, post it afterwards in the What’s in your nose thread.
that last line sounded a bit like you were encouraging people to take this stuff out of arrogance. im sure it wasnt meant that way, but careful, some members on here can take offence easily. no need to all take schmalzlers and advertise it in solidarity against me, dont worry.
Cheese is made with calf stomachs and not labeled as so. Yes, there are cheeses that are vegetarian. Some labels list rennet as an ingredient but not wether animal or vegetable. Did you see my post above? I’m just wondering because you seem to think you are a vegetarian but you are interested in eating bacon flavored foods that have no bacon that does still morally support the slaughter of pigs which would make the labeling of it as vegetarian a joke.
Agreed, and you also seem to have missed the point in my post above regarding dairy cows. They all get slaughtered for meat when they get too old to produce. They need to be kept in a permanent cycle of pregnancy in order to keep producing milk, and half of the cows produced by said pregnancy will be males and they will become meat. By consuming cheese you are perpetuating a meat industry. You can’t call yourself a vegetarian and consume cheese. I think you are taking this to beyond the level of dietary choice and into religion. Just take the schmalzler and enjoy it. Animal products are everywhere. Civilizaton is built on them. Its not like you are actually eating meat.
so the toque bacon comes from added scent then? natural flavours that dont contain the product its based on would come about from similar flavours and combinations. may i ask what the Rabbi’s stance was after discussion? i believe i will be possibly using up this 10g jar i have, then purchasing no more. i do however enjoy others in your range, so you still have a customer in me haha.
How then does an imitation bacon flavor get developed without the killing of a pig? In other words, how would they know it tasted like bacon? Moral issues aside, I do not want to discourage you from your choice of diet or snuff. Your intentions are good and I am glad that you have benefitted from your choices.
Interesting music haha… i believe if i could discover the same as you, and control my supply to them only, then i would be more likely to (not definitely) eat it. i guess im being slightly lazy, in that i find it easier to just cut off all meat and tell people not to give me meat, but as i said earlier life is good the way it is up to now. used to be veggie when i was little- persuaded a dinner lady in primary school to let me try a sausage, ate meat for about 8 years, and went veggie again at 17. 19 now, still the same. anyway, this is slightly OT now 
haha.