In the credit card thread is a mention of this bill. It gives a link to a discussion at Snuson in regards to this. Google s.1147 and you will find the bill. Its a good idea to write your senator, hopefully educating them a bit. It is especially good if he/she is on the judiciary committe that gets to ammend this bill, as mine is. I will copy my letter here. Please do not plagarize me, but you may use any point I made in your own words. Be civil and truthful in your letter. Don’t rage or make things up. This will cause more harm than good. Text of letter in next post.

Dear Senator Kaufman, I am writing to you in regards to Senate Bill 1147 commonly known as 'Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009’ As it is written the bill is eminently unfair. I shall attempt to explain why. I can certainly understand the need to close loopholes which unscrupulous individuals might use to avoid paying their fair share of cigarette taxes. However, I am not particularly concerned with cigarettes. I am concerned with what the bill defines as “smokeless tobacco.” Specifically I am referring to nasal snuff. Snuff is mostly known to Americans as some form of oral tobacco which is certainly widely available. However, proper snuff is taken nasally and poses no documented danger to its user and is not widely available. The bill refers to the “nasal cavity” in terms of snuff, which is why I am concerned. Perhaps you are familiar with it as I understand the Senate still maintains communal snuffboxes due to centuries old tradition. Clearly there are health risks with oral tobaccos as evidenced by much research, though it is far less than that of cigarettes. Yet no serious health concerns have ever been shown regarding nasal snuff. If it is taxed, which is fair for a luxury item, it should be at a lower level than that of known harmful mode of tobacco. Of course the bulk of this bill is aimed at cigarette, and to a lesser degree oral tobacco, internet and mail order sales. This is fine as the consumers of these items do not have to look very far to buy them legitimately from a retailer, but to those of us who are snuff takers, we have a very difficult time finding snuffs locally. I am certainly willing to pay my share of taxes, but the way the bill is worded would make snuff nearly impossible to get. As a snuff user, and a member of the International Snuff Takers Association, we regard snuff in more of a connoisseur sense, such as fine wine, coffee, tea, chocolate, etc. There is such a wide range of snuff in the world that many of us scour the internet; networking and making friends and connections in all parts of the world in order to sample different snuffs. Thankfully there are a number of reputable online specialist retailers that are able to provide us with help in this regard. With the bill as it is, we would have no snuff (since most of us cannot get it locally, and those that can, cannot get variety) and those retailers would be out of business. The bill also would make it illegal to send tobacco through the US Postal Service, yet it specifically exempts cigars. Why is this? Are they regarded by the authors of the bill as connoisseur items also? There is no mention whatever of pipe tobacco, but it is not exempted. Every pipe smoker I know certainly regards pipe smoking as a connoisseur’s hobby. Pipe smokers do much the same as snuff takers in regards to their passions, searching for some elusive fine pipe tobacco. I expect you will hear from a few of them as well. The bill is certainly commendable in its intent, however it is far too broad in scope and will cause unintended harm to an already difficult economy and a complete end to an enjoyable and reasonably safe hobby for thousands. As I understand you are on the committee reviewing this bill, I ask you please, work to amend this bill to either specifically target cigarettes, or to exempt nasal snuff and pipe tobacco. Failing that, I would ask that you vote against it and persuade your colleagues to do the same and find another way to combat illegal cigarette sales. Thank you for your consideration and best regards, Alexander D_____

Xander, I applaud your passion. I will do the same. My only thing with the credit card thing is this… and please read it in its entirety. I was an avid online poker player for real cash. Now the congress was really wanting to pass this port act, which delt with securing our ports. A senator then at the last minute made a backroom deal and stapled onto this bill ( which was sure to pass ) the unlawful gaming act making it illegal to play online poker. What poker and port security have to do with one another is beyoond me. However, what this bill did was make it illegal for BANKING institutions and Credit Unions to ALLOW these transactions to occur. So what happened… myself and millions of others used this loop hole because those Cash Debit Cards you can buy at the gas stations for like presents and crap worked. You just load them up and is basically money thats yours without the hassle of a bank or another institution. So it worked. So we stuck it to the government by using that loop hole to get around the legality of it, and if you are caught its the BANKS fault, not yours. This bill will have its loop holes, especially the part where importing cigars is fine but all other means arent…??? Anyways we must stand up and unite and I do urge those of you in America to do as Xandar does, even if you think it will not matter.

Also check out the link ( sorry, youll have to copy paste to the browser because I suck at posting clickable links ) to find your senator. http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=4928 Please read all thats behind it and see for yourself how screwed we COULD be. Its a very good read about the moronical happenings in the Capital while our economy is shriviling away. So many other problems but some Piece of S*** congressman thinks tobacco regulation to this degree is important right now instead of those without jobs.

Well, ok. But to me the forbidding of using the mail service is the most bone-headed part. That basically is a gift to the corporate private carriers. I didn’t see much in the bill regarding banks and credit cards. I’ll read it again tomorrow, but legalese makes my eyes blur after a couple minutes. BTW, to insert a link, make sure you are in Html mode (click the dot below your input box) then look for a menu of buttons above the input box. One looks like a globe with a chain link, second from right. Click that and you are asked to input the mail address and second request asks for a name for it.

The bad part is this bill is set for a final vote today. I have a feeling we are screwed. If this passes I will be ordering a two year supply or more of snus and snuff. Hoping that a loophole displays itself before I run out.

This is terrible - I just posted on the other thread, not knowing that the bill was being voted on today. The loophole WILL be there, you just have to find it.

I thought this wouldn`t affect smokeless.

It’s rather funny that the Govt is screwing themselves by not allowing themselves to mail tobacco, yet they whine that the Post Office is losing money. HAHA!

Has anyone seen how many bills are in front of this committee?? Have a look-see:HERE

Right, its only in comittee at this point, committees can at times drag things out. It may never even get to the senate floor for a full vote for a long time. Nonetheless, write 'em if you got 'em. It can’t hurt, right?

I don’t have a Senator on the committee, but I will write mine. Oh, and for our friend across the pond or down south, if this passes, say goodbye to sales from the US.

Yeesh. I didn’t mean to start a panic. Lots of stuff dies in committee. No need to start hoarding at this point (though a lot of us do anyway, becuase we’re nuts like that). Govtrak says its only just reffered to committee at this point. I don’t see where it says they are voting on it today. These things are slow anyway. Cstokes is right, there are a lot of bigger thinngs on this committee’s agenda at the moment (including a Constitutional ammendment!!!) so just write your letters for now. Pitchforks and torches are on hold for the moment, my Revolutionaries. We can always set up an offshore PO box right? How far a boat ride is the Bahamas from Tom?

Probably an hour at best.

When he becomes a “snuffrunner” the words nicotine rush will take on a new meaning.

Haha, LOL. I can see him doing it too. Look at what he went through for a 12pack of Levi!

LOL! “The Snuff Runner”

Well, I did my part and wrote a letter to Senator Russ Feingold who is on the committee. This bill has the potential to screw snusers too, and as I enjoy snuff and snus, I take a special interest. I have some friends on other states with committee members, and I’ll be twisting some arms.

Sorry guys, it was the FDA regulation of tobacco bill that got voted on today.

I love how they link everything to terrorist. “If you by tobacco, you are supporting al-queda.” F*in retarded. If this bill passes I’ll have to move to England so I can enjoy snuff.

I am wondering if this will affect the Northerner US Warehouse

ap, yes this will affect all delivered snus. But I know that Northerner ( I have a source) and Swedish Match are moving rapidly towards getting more B&M retailers in the US. They both see the writing on the wall and realize B&M will be the best way to sell snus. The PACT act won’t make UPS/FedEX ing snus and snuff illegal , but it will make it a nightmare , this puts the onus on the seller to make sure all the taxes in each jurisdiction are paid. That would be a nightmare for anyone to figure out and keep up with, especially someone from Europe. If it affects internet orders all the retailers would have to do is have printable order forms on their site. We print them off, mail a check or MO, and they ship it. Welcome to the old days of mail order.

Damn! all govt (including Brazilian) knows how to make the things easier! thanks Bigmick.

Thats an excellent letter Xander. My fear with communicating with politicians - however strong and sensible the argument - is that all you will get back is a justification of something thats already decided. I wouldn’t be surprised if your very elequent letter just gets a standard reply along the lines of ‘this government is committed to reducing tobacco harm’ without even addressing the snuff issue. I am a total cynic when it come to this breed, having been involved with several through my job. Whether they are British or American, or from anywhere else for that matter, they are self-serving crooks. Not that you shouldn’t all contact your senators but I think the comment about big cigars says it all.

Ron Paul is calling this measure, rightfully, authoritarianism. I just wish as an American we’d ditch this “land of the free”, “leader of the free world”, “free country”, untrue propaganda.

Yikes! I didn’t really want to start a political thread. I just wanted to see if we can prevent a mistake from happening that would effectively end our hobby. Snuffster, I happen to be an optimist, so I write letters a lot to my elected officials. I have found that when I write a letter that is my own, I usually get back one that the Senator (or whatever office holder) wrote personally. If I just sign my name to a form letter, I usually get a form letter back. Also it depends on the individual. For instance, my Congressman is pretty worthtless in this regard. He has already made up his mind and tells you so. Sometimes multiple letters will get him to change though. My other Senator is usually very friendly and generally is very helpful if I write to him. He usually knows the issue pretty well and often will send all sorts of literature back to you on it. I don’t always agree with him, and at times he’ll not respond at all. This Senator that I wrote to is an unknown, since he just came in this year, and was appointed due to his predecessor resigning. I wrote to him specifically becuase he is on the judiciary committee. If this comes to a full floor vote (which it probably will not) I will be writing again, this time to both Senators. In general, I don’t hate government. I don’t hate it in theory anyway. Being the optimist that I am, I tend to think it works best when the citizenry is well educated and informed. Apathy and cynicism will turn even the best government bad. Representative deomocracy needs the people to be committed to this. If we let lobbyists do our jobs as citizens, we get laws tailor made to lobbyists needs, not ours. I’ll keep on top of him. If he writes me back I’ll post it here for you to see. If it comes down to it, I can always try and make an appointment at his office and show him my snuff collection. Maybe he’ll get the idea then!

Getting Back to the Bill s. 1147, Tom of Nicotine Rush was kind enough to do a little research and provide a link on his website to all 19 committee members. Here is the website: Govtrack What I did was compose one letter and use this site to go to each of the 19 members homepage and contact them directly. With the cutting and pasting and navigating it takes a little over an hour, but hopefully the effort will be worth it. If not let’s hope there is some loophole that allows us to still get our snuff.

I have so much US snuffs at present, I don’t care a damn what they will decide on. Plus I have so many true friends all over the States who will help me to get some more when I’m in need that I’m not in the least worried about anything!! There are many ways to kill a senator.

I’m wondering if tobacco retailers in the US would be exempt from this? One might be able to bribe a local tobacconist into making an order for you maybe? I dunno, just grabbing straws here.

Carol, yes we could order it from our local dealer. At least I can. I talked to both of my favorite guys and they are willing to order whatever I want, as long as their distributors carry it. Right now that looks like Wilson’s only. But I have to pay the taxes and a bit of markup to make it worth it to them. I’m Ok with that as it still allows me to get snuff.

My wife works for a mail order outfit. They charge tax for you for whatever state (and municipality if applicable) for each and every customer. Now, that’s sales tax, not excise tax as they don’t deal in tobacco, or anything that carries an excise tax. If we can get the mail BS struck from this bill, a reasonable compromise would have the retailers apply each state’s tax. It would be a huge hassle to be sure, for us but mostly for them. But we’d still get our variety and they could still stay in business. With that kind of language in the bill, you’d see the online cigarette dealers disappear overnight, but the specialty shops would carry on. Another option, more drastic, and also assumming we get the postal nonsense out of the bill, would we would have to get an online vendor for each state. Since I’m probably the only snuff taker in Delaware, I guess I’d have to supply myself :-?

Settled

Xander, I would love to be an optimist but have seen too many officials at first hand to be able to manage it. It may be that you have better representation in the US; I’m not expert enough to be able to comment. My belief is that there not many politicians that don’t want the top job and getting it means selling whatever is left of the soul. Our own dithering Prime Minister has wanted to be PM all his life: that’s a bad, bad motivation in my book; like hiring someone who loves the thought of shooting someone to be a cop. I would just respectfully say to anyone don’t be too impressed by a letter from a politician. If I wrote to the PM I could be completely sure that even a signed response would never have gone anywhere near him. Anyhoo, I’m just talking personal feelings here; no disrespect intended. Pieter; with respect I would say that OT’s about politics are best kept free of comments about killing. I would be happy with anyone stating that politicians are crooks (I have done myself, just a few comments back) but as soon as we start going down the killing them line, even in jest, the debate opens itself up to those less able to debate sensibly. With respect and love dear Pieter.

As this new law won’t effect cigars, will we now see rolled snuff? Can’t be to difficult to compress the snuff into a “tube” and the user will just have to de-compress it!! Anybody wants to start working on a de-compressing machine so long?

The S. 1147 legislation was passed unanimously Friday afternoon in both House and Senate… (sigh).

No it was not. It is at present been refferred to the Senate judiciary commitee. It must past through comittee, then pass the full Senate, then the full house and then be signed by the president. It is a long way to go still. I think you were thinking of the bill that allows the FDA to regulate tobacco.

@Xander: I’ve been informed that we are talking about DIFFERENT bills. THIS is the bill I was referring to, which was NOT the bill of this topic: http://www.theledger.com/article/20090613/ZNYT04/906133018/0/NEWS?Title=Congress-Passes-Measure-on-Tobacco-Regulation So, as Roseanna Roseannadanna would say: Nevermind.

Z-2k, Different bills. This thread is about the PACT act, not the FDA crud. I made the same mistake.

Hope this helps settle the debate:s.1147 status on govtrackThe PACT act has been introduced and referred to committee. It has yet to be reported on by the committee, or voted on by the Senate and house. A link to all the members of this committee are available on the above website. I have contacted everyone of them utilizing their webpages to share my concerns. It’s relatively easy. Compose one letter and save it. Then go to each members website and use their contact form to protest this bullsh*t legislation.

Florida is not represented on the PACT committee, but I sent letters to my State Senators and Representatives anyway requesting they not support it.

Z_2k, I did the same. I also wrote the PACT committee members to see if they could revise the language of the bill to ensure that responsible adults could still order from reputable retailers.

In response to Pieter’s comment: I am typing the following with a bit of sarcasm: There are so many anti-tobacco people out there that already claim Camel makes ‘candy-tasting’ products out there aimed at children, so since they can get away with ‘candy tobacco,’ I don’t see anything wrong with ‘cigar-snuff.’ When and IF the mail ban hits, it’ll be up to snuff and snus companies to figure ways around the ban. If all else fails, we could probably have snuff shipped to Mexico and I’ll make a tunnel underground leading to the United States. Pretty ridiculous to even have to think of smuggling tobacco! Hmmm…dime bags of snuff. hahaha!

Smuggling tobacco is already big business in the European Union as the rates of taxation vary so much between member states. I reckon most people here are used to seeing health warnings on cig packets and tobacco pouches in French, Dutch, German, Polish, Lithuanian… etc etc… A simple case of supply and demand.

In Berlin/germany the number 2 cigarette brand is smuggled from russia… price is just 2 Euros per pack.

In the UK if you want something to be done in parliament - a vote or what have you - the tried and tested route is simple old fashioned bribery. It can’t be too different in the US, so if this thing gets passed the various committee stages maybe a bribe fund needs to be started? Or a couple of strategically placed and suitably briefed hookers employed?

Well I wrote my senator, who was on the committee, last night. I just asked if they could reword the bill to allow legitimate sales of tobacco to adults who choose to use the products. Now I have my fingers crossed.

Hey, don’t forget about this thread. I’ve already emailed everyone I can, but have the rest of you?

Yes, but no replies so far.