i was just told by my supplier that ALL poschl snuffs are being DISCONTINUED!! this is an outrage! it doesn’t make any sense! this is one of the largest and most established snuff producers in the whole freaking world! the reason i was given is that the company (poschl) refuses to list the ingredients on the back of their containers, and this is a violation of some kind of law. what the hell is going on here?! i’ve never even heard of any such law. somebody please tell me that i was horribly misinformed, and it’s all just a nightmare i will soon wake up from. this is absolutely absurd. why would poschl cut off millions of dollars of it’s own income just because it doesn’t want to list ingredients? if this information is untrue, i will try to sue this supplier of mine for emotional distress! if it is true… i may just shoot myself in the face with a shotgun! HELP!!

All in three letters… F D A.

All Poschl’s American line is being discontinued. From what I’ve read. The ones for the German/EU market should not be affected.

That’s a bit of a bugger. I feel sorry for you folks in the US at the moment.

I wouldn’t be too upset just yet. I’m sure there are ways around yet more of america’s bullshit. lol

Pöschl is required to have their ingedients list approved by the FDA. Note: there is no requirement for it to be listed on the packaging, only that they must submit an ingredient list for approval. Since they already do this in Germany, it should not be an issue. If these rumors are true and they are refusing to comply with US law, but are already obeying a similar law in Germany then I am left scratching my head. I would conclude that there is something in their snuffs that would not get approved by our law and they know it. Perhaps something harmful? I know Pöschl snuffs are harmful to me, and to snuff’s overall reputation, so good riddence to them.

maybe they think the flavor ban applies to snuff as well as cigarettes. Who knows dumber things have shaped the world before and will again.

and the FDA has no problem clearing 4000 ingredients in cigarettes

@ that’s terrible Xander! u may not like poschl snuffs, but how can u say it’s so bad it hurts snuff’s overall reputation? they are obviously doing something right… they’ve been in business since 1902, and currently supply over 50% of the world market for snuff. while i’d agree some of their varieties are yuk, there are over 30 different types to chose from… some of which are outstanding.

@timetravler: 1902 makes them a relative youngster in the snuff business. Supplying over 50% of the market only proves they are good at marketing. In fact since they have nearly a monopoly in places, many a newcomer to snuff might be curious as to what snuff is all about, try Pöschl becuase its all the store carries, and hate it and think that’s all that snuff is. If that’s all there was available, I would never have taken to snuff at all. I know there are plenty of other people around here that feel the same way. Their varieties are not really varieites. They all have extreme doses of menthol, most have artificial sweet fruity flavorings, and all have an unpleasant paraffin base that, at least for me, causes gagging, as it slips its way down the throat. At best some of them are tolerable. Yes, I know that last part is just my opinion. I will admit that their 4 schmalzlers are excellent, but sadly they’ve never tried to market them internationally. Never fear though, you’ll be able to get as much as you like from international vendors for as long as you like, probably about half the price they cost in a shop too.

Poschl is very popular, I believe. I like their snuffs.

Regardless of whether Poschl is the bane of the devil or the dust of Angels…this is a very strange development (if in fact it is the case). Why relinquish your USA market over something you have already done in Germany? And as far as having some hidden toxin…I would imagine that anything that drastic would be that drastic in Germany as well. None of this makes much sense

Snuff (and all tobacco products, that is) are under the German Food Law, which is amongst the strictest in the world (yes, this unfortunately means no scottish Haggis and french fresh milk products allowed here…). There are many tobacco products not allowed here, therefore (Shisha tobacco with too high moisture, US Chew, some pipe tobaccos with ingredients not allowed here, like the old Captain Black for instance). So, as the Pöschl´s are perfectly legal in Germany, it just can´t be a reason of what´s inside. I can only speculate, but 2 reasons seem likely: 1. In Germany the products are constantly monitored by federal institutes and the list of ingredients must be supplied. But you don´t have to state the amounts of the various ingredients. As the US government has become a bit greedy in the near past about information, I presume they wanted a far deeper insight than Pöschl wanted to deliver. 2. We´re not talking about a million Dollar market for Pöschl in the USA. Far from it. Still, you need employees in exports department dealing this foreign market. In short: big effort, little profit. And the policy is just too shady to be predictable. After all, they might ban all tobacco products in the USA in the near future, or “only” burden the companies more and more. I guess, it´s just not worth the effort.

Red Star, have a look here at the ingredients of Gletscherprise: [url=http://service.ble.de/tabakerzeugnisse/index2.php?detail\\_id=101357&site\\_key=153]http://service.ble.de/tabakerzeugnisse/index2.php?detail\\_id=101357&site\\_key=153[/url]. All ingredients are stated along with the amount. It’s just the same as with all other products in the file.

Bad link?

Fixed.

Silica and Ammonium Hydroxide… yum.

@ Xander, while all this is true… the same could easily be said about the dry toasts and most certainly the wonderful American scotches. these have a tendency to make newbies and first timers feel as if they have been bitch slapped in the nose by mike tyson. on the contrary, i would say that poschl’s snuffs are excellent for beginners and as an “introductory” snuff to the uninitiated. IMO it doesn’t matter how good a company markets something… there’s no way they are going to completely corner the world market unless they provide a quality product that is widely liked by the consumer. what i’d like to know is, how do i order a few tins of snuff from a foreign dealer without breaking the bank and getting screwed with shipping charges? it’s already bad enough with the pact act and all that jazz. unfortunately for me, online is the only place i am able to find snuff in any variety. which is odd to me since i live in one of the most internationally diverse cities in the world. one would think in a town of over 6 million people w/ one of the worlds largest international shipping ports, that you could find at least one tobacco shop with a decent snuff selection. ?? it’s beginning to seem like almost nothing makes sense in the world of snuff (and tobacco in general) anymore. %&^$#@*! im gonna go console myself with a couple of blasts of Tube Rose. (i’ve locked my 3 remaining tins of poschl’s in the safe, and i’m so frazzled right now i can’t remember the combination.)

When I was a newbie I bypassed Poschl and went straight for Toque Quit and F&T HDT. I preferred the biatch slap/blow my head off types. I’m sorry, but I would have laughed at Poschl, I was in it for the “N”! I’m only sorry it took me a year and a half to try the American Scotches. I do like a bit of Gawith Apricot or Ozona Raspberry every now and again.

As I suspected, Gletscherprise is a totally wholesome snuff, full of lovely wholesome ingredients. Yummy.

Lol, I love snuffing glass.

but its mit Columbia-öl!

I guess I’m one of the rare snuffers that never tried Poschl. Not that I want to…

It seems Poschl has a similar dividing effect as Menthol does to snuffers. I like Poschl and I like menthol. The evidence is the large number of Red Bull boxes i have!

Poschl is not terrible and before this mess in the US was one of the easier to find. I have a couple things of their apricot, it is not bad but like others have said very moist and very mentholated. I don’t detect apricot in it. I do find their packaging handy if you dig the tap box thing. I also have an unopened thing of Ozana president. I am stocking here and there on the poschls where I can locally. Just because there might be a future where local and internet purchases get harder so I have them around for posterity and sanity. If I had a choice of nothing or a Poschl, I would choose Poschl. However for the most part I prefer other snuffs. That doesn’t say anything bad about Poschl, just a statement of my personal preference. Ken

Poschl will for ever be in my collection. They make some very nice snuff which I enjoy 100%.

@Timetraveler. I agree I started out my snuffing about a month ago. My first two were GH Wisky and Poschl Ozona Orange. The orange was great, but the Whisky was a slap in the face, no matter how soft I sniffed it, it went straight to the sinuses. So as far as starting out. I believe Poschl really helped me enjoy it and also helped me get used to the feel.

@ Kcazman: No doubt your Whisky was a dried out abomination of its former self in a wretched tap box. Its a wonderful and medium moist snuff when used from one of the new mini tubs.

^ Yes, it might have well been a scotch for all I am concerned.

@Xander, I agree 100%. The sample which you’ve sent me is excellent, wonderful taste, not dry at all and it will be included in my next order (bulk).

Pöschl Gawith Apricot was my first snuff, I thought thats what all snuff was going to be like, heavily mentholated with no other discernible flavor. I enjoyed it obviously or else I wouldn’t have continued along with my snuff passion, but I’m so glad I found other snuffs. If I can never get another Pöschl snuff, I won’t be too disappointed.

After tasting more than 200 different snuffs, Gawith Apricot is STILL one of my favourites.

And I still enjoy it, although I do mix a little McC’s Apricot into it now lol

For sure Pöschl snuffs caused some people to dislike the idea of snuff. But imo they´d hated snuff if they´d taken most other snuffs. They´re just the perfect introduction into snuff tobacco. I`m totally sure I´d have canceled the idea of snuff taking, if I hadn´t started with Gawith Apricot, no doubt. Well, the Pöschls make only a small amount of my total snuff depot these days, but some are always ready for lift off, like Ozona President. I´ll attend a 3 day tobacco workshop at Geisenhausen in October and get the chance to talk to the folks there, the owners included. I can ask them about their strategy for the US market then.

I know I would have given up on snuff if I tried the poschels first. I would have thought this is weak it smells o.k. and it clogs me up. I might enjoy this but it wouldn’t be something I could actualy do regularly. I still wish wilsons was the first snuff I tried that would be nice.

Dude, 1902 isn’t a relative newcomer. Toque is. Irregardless of if you like Poschl or not, it’s still a snuff and we Americans are being stripped of our rights to imbibe in tobacco products thanks to our Newspeak gov’t. I hope the world is watching what goes on here. This is the future - taxation without representation.

I managed to give up smoking with only Pöschl snuffs some years ago… not that bad…, but of course the snuff world would be boring for me without all the other snuff manufacturers. One thing is very perfect with the Pöschl snuffs: You can open a tin, put it away for a year, use it again, and its still as good as it was, fresh flavor and not dried out.

@didi878, to that I say Amen!! I have in my nose right now a pinch of Packard’s from a tin which was opened many months ago. And it’s still fresh, moist and delicious.

I suspect Pochl is just the fore runner. Cant see SG and WoS complying with PACT.

… Even their smoking tobacco has this feature, while other tobaccos were already dried garbage after few months, the Pöschl was only a bit drier but still perfect smokable.

I stand to be corrected, but white oil is nothing more than liquid paraffin. Perhaps the FDA confuses it with flammable paraffin (Kerosene) and wishes to avoid an outbreak of apparent spontaneous human combustion. On the other hand the FDA might be more rationally concerned with the fact that if white oil reaches the lungs it can cause lipoid pneumonia.

Wow, thats some list of ingredients. Does anyone know if any of that is added or just naturally occuring stuff in tobacco? I suppose that is why the stuff stays fresh for so long. It reminds me of some Granny Smith apples I bought once from a nasty discount supermarket. They looked like really good apples, a nice shiny deep green skin, just like a good, crunchy, sweet Granny Smith should be. I bit into one and it was horrible, all mushy and sour so I put the rest aside and forgot about them. Several months passed before I realised how long they had been sat there and they looked exactly the same, nice and shiny. Needless to say I didn’t buy any fresh food from that shop again!

Heard about all this, and went down to my local smoke shop…yep…still a bunch of Poschl’s stuff. In any case, if ya dig wax, Poschl’s is the way to go…its why the stuff seems okay to snuff even after months of sitting in a bloody tap box, but keep some SG in the same box and its dust in a day or two…

@ saucy jack: Notice I used the word “relative.” Yes, Toque is the baby on the block, but Pöschl is still a youngster. Compare to: Fribourg & Treyer (1720); Bernard (1733); Wilsons of Sharrow (1737); Lotzbeck (1774); Samuel Gawith (1792); Gawith Hoggarth (1854). Also the US companies owe their orgins to their brands, inlcuding Garrett which dates to 1782. No American has been stripped of any right to consume any tobacco product. You have more representative taxation than any other time in history. This also has nothing to do with taxation. Pöschl is refusing to comply with a law and voluntarily leaving the market (if the rumors are even true). Its the additives to the tobacco that are being regulated. The law is there to protect you from being poisoned by companies that are more concerned with profit than the health of their customers. In effect we are “catching up” to Germany and Sweden and other places that have been regulating what nasty things can be added to your tobacco, and what can not for years.

@saucy_jack: “taxation without representation” – I heard that leads to tea parties and the like.

I do not see any reason Pöschl would discontinue their snuff line, as far as I know they are pretty much following german laws. Pöschl snuff might not reach US any longer but never discontinued totally. My opinion

guessing they probably don’t sell enough to bother. Almost like they may have been thinking why bother before and the extra bit about registering just soured continuing bussiness here. That’s a possible guess.

@Xander: You amuse me to no end, Xander. I have representative taxation, more than ever, you say? Or just come plutocrat in an office with his feet on a desk, smoking a cigar and coming up with ways to inconvenience my freedoms, i.e. Pact Act and the various and sundry local taxes of my state that have raised tobacco prices through the roof. I understand the safety issues, it’s all fine and dandy - Not like everything isn’t already poisoned anyways. lol I personally think Poschl discontinuing sales to the US a tad fishy, like Bernard’s closing its doors. If they, Poschl, are already following strict German purity laws, than whats the big deal?

@ xander … " No American has been stripped of any right to consume any tobacco product " what about the ban on flavored cigarettes . cloves … some of the good nat sherman ones etc ?

@jpsks Well, you´re still allowed to consume them, you just can´t buy them.

I will say I enjoy Poschl Bayern-Prise and hope they always carry it.

Well, I’m glad I amuse you, jack. I’m pretty sure you do not live in the District of Columbia, which are really the only Americans who can legitimately claim that phrase, since they have no representation in the Senate and no votes in the House. I don’t know how it is exactly where you live, but its probably similar to where I live. I am represented in government by a district City Councilman and 3 at-large city councilmen as well as a city council president. I am also represented by a County Councilman, a Representative to the State Assembly, a State Senator, a member of the US House of Representatives, and two US Senators. I can vote for any of those people or against them periodically. I can be a woman and still vote, I can be black and still vote, I can even have my grandfather been born a slave and still be able to vote. I don’t even have to own land to vote! I can contact any of them whenever I have a concern. Their contact information is a matter of public record. I can even run for any of those offices if I choose. I don’t believe you think that its someone’s job to sit around all day and come up with new ways to “inconvenience your freedoms.” That would be paranoia. Also being inconvenienced and being stripped of rights are two very different things. Tobacco was vilified long ago, not by any government action, but by grass roots efforts and scientific studies. If anything, the government has been very slow to act on such information. Softening the public’s perception towards such things will take a lot more doing, and will likely take many more years. Our elected representatives at least do represent a good cross section of the general public, that is to say: clueless. They can’t help but have a natural bias against tobacco. You won’t gain much sympathy from the GP by claiming inconvenience. I agree with you this whole Pöschl business is rather fishy. Possibly there is some discrepancy between our law and the German one. Dangerous things like “Anthrax Ripple” and “Spring Surprise” chocolates were banned for good reason. @ jpsks: I think it was a mistake to ban clove cigarettes. The logic for doing so does not hold up. The clove issue was unfortunately conflated with the ridiculous things Camel et al. were coming up with. I’m saying the bad guys brought attention to something and ruined it for everybody. Other than Nat Sherman, the others are all still made but call themselves “cigars”. Also I’d refer you to Red Star’s answer; its not your right to use it that was removed, it was their ability to sell it. No one can say you are not within your rights to make your own clove cigarettes!

More importantly you’re allowed the possession of flavored cigarettes. Just can’t sell them. That is really where most civil liberties are lost about consumables. It’s usaly not illegal to use them just to have them.

I concur Xander here: anti-tobacco politics are democratic politics from the people and that’s the way democracy works; it’s always wrong and it’s always right. Some people still can’t gasp the fact that democratic policies are compromises and thus imperfect and keep changing all the time. It’s confusing and sometimes unfair but that’s the best we got.

The U.S. is not to be a democracy, but a constitutional republic.

Its both a representative democracy and a federal republic. So is Germany. The UK is also a representative democracy while at the same time being a constitutional monarchy, so is the Netherlands, Sweden etc. Confusing to be two things at once, sure, but you hear a lot of this nonsense going around about not being a democracy but a republic. Greek and Latin words for the same thing anyway. I beleive Churchill said to FDR, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

But U.S. is certainly not a ‘simple’ representative democracy because majority rule is tempered. ‘True’ democracy is not. Jefferson said: “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

I see what you’re saying though, Xander: that the other democracies are tempered too. So, you’re right. I concede. “my bad” I had to put on my thinking cap.

@ etten-eller: Firstly, lets not drift into debate here. However, I would like to point out, that there is no evidence Jefferson ever said such a thing. It sounds very un-Jeffersonian on the face of it. Here is some info from Monticello Which claims there is no such evidence. Secondly, you know as well as I do that that is a gross oversimplification to equate such as “mob-rule.” Any form of democracy requires liberty as a fundamental principal. You can’t legally/etically take away rights. Rights are universal and fundamental. “True” democracy requires a perfectly informed voter. Its hard to find a few perfectly informed individuals, let alone all of them or even a majority. So we get by with represetatives for now. Edit: just saw your second post. We must have been typing at the same time. No problem.

Africa democracy is totally different from what you have in your countries. Zimbabwe, for instance, also have a democratic government. His name is Robert Mugabe.

I see you’re totally right. I was just getting myself caught up (again) in the ‘republic, not a democracy’ thing. But fortunately, it dawned on me how correct you are. And I realized I was not. Actually, I appreciate your straightening that out – more than I can express

Well, some people like to use the name for that warm fuzzy feeling. Zimbabwe does not fit the State department’s definition of democracy.

Cheers, E E!

@Xander – Read the article on Monticello. Thanks.

back atcha!

Back from 2 fantastic days at Pöschl´s HQ in Geisenhausen. The most humble and charming folks, one could think of. As I´d presumed, the reasons for pulling out of the US market were, that the government demanded much, much more info (more or less the exact recipes) than they wanted to offer. They chose to keep their trousers up, heavy hearted. Well, a look at the international figures made it quite clear, that this was the only reasonable decision. I´d have NEVER thought they sell this little in the USA. They sell 10 times as much in Poland alone… in the international ranking, the USA came 8th, far behind France, Italy, even behind the Czech Republic.

Depressing news. Gletscher Prise and President are two that I’ve always liked taking to work with me. One of the reasons was the boxes are very easy to slip into my pocket and my co-workers seemed to really enjoy taking a pinch of as well. I really think Poeschl should reconsider their decision.

I concur. I hope this can be worked out in the future.

@saucy_jack: “taxation without representation” – I heard that leads to tea parties and the like. It was not the tax/representation campaigners responsible for ransacking the East India ship Dartmoor but Boston’s wealthy smugglers who were irate that the Parliament had given the company a massive rebate. Tea therefore left Britain duty free and only had to pay the much lower colonial duty on arrival. This price advantage undercut the illegal trade of smugglers. Had tea been heavily taxed then there would have been no tea party.

@PhilipS Where did you find that info? I’m not arguing with your point, merely inquiring about where you got your information.

Wow PhilipS that makes more sense. You’ve studied your history a fair bit more then casualy. As the kids say big ups on that. (ie. that is awesome.)

Tin Can - there is a wealth of information regarding the myth behind the tea party. Posterity claims that it was due to heavy duty on tea when in fact it was due to Boston’s smugglers being undercut over lowering the duty on tea from a shilling a pound to three pence per pound. The Boston Tea Party Historical Society is one source - http://www.boston-tea-party.org/smuggling/John-Hancock.html - or for a wealth of information Google the following: “Boston tea party” smugglers The contemporary Massachusetts lawyer and politician Daniel Leonard wrote, “Will not posterity be amazed when they are told that the present distraction took its rise from the parliament’s taking off a Shilling duty on a pound of tea, and imposing three pence, and call it a more unaccountable frenzy, and more disgraceful to the annals of America, than that of the Witchcraft.”

Very interesting stuff, PhilipS. We should all know better than to trust the myth(s) they call academic history. Much is untrue and always has been.

Yeah it’s amazing how we candy coat somethings and ignore others. My current favorite historical misreading is the term Machiavellian. Which comes from a combination of poor translating choices and not looking at context.

often used in context of political duplicity (how I more often use it) or in psychcology to define traits for diagnoses comparable to sociopathology/psychopathology. Interesting that you’re studying that one, Bob.

The funny part is it describes some observations in one book. None of which match anything about the man himself.