it is said that snuff is out of the range of tobacco taxes at least here in Holland and in England. But to my surprise I did some calculations. It seems that 50gr of - let’s take Gletscher Prise - cost about 10 euro’s. 50gr of pipe tobacco of a general brand - Amphora - costs 9 euro’s. And the pipe tobacco is with tax INCLUDED. How is this possible? Do the snuff sellers stick the tax-part into their own pocket??? Or is snuff so much more labour-intensive that the price is reasonable? I think snuff in general could profit from the fact that it’s out of tobacco taxes just some more, if it CLEARLY lowers it prices compared to taxed tobacco! I know snuff is cheaper in use, the pipe smoker would empty his pouch in a few days and the sniffer in about 2 weeks. But I think we have a point here. On the windmills of De Kralingse, for the same 9 euro’s as the pipe tobacco, I get a 100gr tube. The most prices of snuff now at MrSnuff wonder me a lot. There is so much difference in what I pay for 100gr by brand.

@Salmiak: Don’t forget the Kralingse Snuif en Specerijen Compagnie is a non-profit foundation sponsored by tobacco and spices traders and completely run by volunteers that operates in historical windmills owened and maintained by the municipality of Rotterdam. This enterprise cannot be compared with regular snuff manufacturers. Jaap Bes.

I can’t speak for others, but one look at my P&L statement would show the opposite of swindle. More like a gift. A casual glance at various tobaccos; be they snuff, pipe, RYO or cigar, is not a solid foundation for comparison. One has to consider the cost of raw materials (tobacco, scenting), equipment, packaging, labeling, shipping materials, &c. Let’s not overlook or under-consider: “Time is Money”. I am close to doing volunteer work right now, but that can’t last. At some point the venture has to reach break even or a small profit. My wife won’t subsidize this hobby of mine forever.

For me, I think some manufacturers are having a laugh. For example on MrSnuff, Ozona Cherry Menthol 5g tin works out at £0.49 per g whereas Wos Cherry Menthol 5g tin works out at £0.21 per g. If you buy Wilsons at 25g it’s £0.11, Poschl don’t even offer different sizes. If this difference in price is to do with the fancy tin, then forget it, give me a simple cheap one.

Could be worse. Recently the Australian government wanted $130 for 200 grams or $40 of snuff I ordered. I didn’t pay the extortion but it seems larger orders are not worth it here now. 10 Euro seems pretty cheap to me in comparison.

making a profit is fine, I see nothing wrong with it within reason. If a product is overpriced demand drops. What would be unorthodox is gouging if one has a monopoly, but I don’t see that happening presently. In my location I would have to drive at least 100 miles to acquire a rather poor selection of snuffs; the cost would be considerably higher than ordering online and Massachusetts taxes are rather high.

I don’t know much at all about snuff manufacture, but snus I know. I once asked why a tin of 20 mini portions cost very much the same as a tin 24 regular size portions and it was explained to me in great detail how the cost of tobacco is the smallest cost they have. The transport, packaging and processing are where the cost comes in. Although when 7 grams from Germany cost more than double what 5 grams from England cost…I’d say pricing has more to do with the manufacturer than the distributor. Maybe WoS is using way cheaper tobacco. Or running some sort of snuff sweatshop.

I know nothing about the price point of snuff, but am happy to pay what the manufacturer or retailer is asking. It is their product and they can ask what they wish. I don’t have to buy it if I don’t believe the price is fair. I think there are three factors at play; the costs of manufacturing, the cut for distribution, and what the consumer is willing to pay. The manufacturer needs to cover production costs and hopefully a little more to keep producing, the retailer needs to cover operational costs and overhead, and I’m either willing or not willing to pay the end cost. I’ve never felt swindled by any snuff manufacturer or distributor. I feel fortunate that the current prices for snuff are affordable. Taxes get complicated. I spoke to a local tobacco based business a couple weeks ago and he shared with me that businesses can choose how they pay taxes on tobacco products. He told me that a business can either pay taxes when tobacco is purchased from a distributor which creates a slightly lower price point or they can pay taxes on the tobacco after the product is sold which creates a slightly higher price point. He explained to me that as a business owner he pays the tax when he purchases product and chalks it up to the cost of doing business, reducing the price point for the consumer. Whereas, the business owner that chooses to pay taxes after the sale of the product will incorporate the tax, with maybe a little extra for insurance that the tax is paid in full, into the price point. This creates a higher cost for the consumer as he/she is helping to pay the full tax for the business. It’s easy to see this in my local B&M retailers, and I think it’s what you may have been kind of getting at? To make a long story short… a business has the option of either paying the taxes or passing them onto the consumer. The government doesn’t care who pays as long as businesses makes sure the tax is paid. At least this is how I understand it to work in Dayton, Ohio? I may be talking out of my ass, as I do this a lot.

Here is a quick mathematical breakdown of the costs of production https://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~darius/18-Math-Analysis.pdf In summation; the cost of production for snuff is higher than other tobacco types, the storage costs are moderately high, and the shelf life is relatively short, etc. However, if you analyze the fact that even a heavy user may use only 5 grams of tobacco per day and also let us assume this heavy user only snuffs super-premium artisan blends such as Cafe 11 which is $14 USA per 15 grams at a cost of $4.66 USA per day compare this to a pack-a-day smoker in the USA where a pack averages $7 USA for the lower-end brands, snuff is a very good deal especially considering the “hidden” costs of the potentially greater risks to the health of the cigarette smoker in comparison to the considerably lower costs of snuff use, snuff is simply cheaper. Also note that the snuff to cigarette cost ratio becomes even more pronounced in the UK where snuff can be purchased more widely without the cost of shipping and the tax rates for cigarettes are significantly greater. A similar result can be found for other tobacco products where the average cost of X is: 2 low-end cigars for $10, 1 oz pipe tobacco (other than drugstore blends) is $6. A slight cost advantage can be found in the case of dip tobacco like Copenhagen which is $5 average for a 34g can as there is no wait time and no shipping costs associated, but if you substitute a cheaper snuff like bulk Wilsons that advantage disappears , leaving only the wait for shipping as the sole disadvantage.

In the US you can buy “pipe tobacco” in a can, and inside it is clearly cigarette tobacco with out the rolling papers. This was done to avoid the taxes that was put on rolling tobacco. Shortly before I quit a few years ago. It was not a very expensive habit, the cans went from $12 to $32 over night, and it was a little annoying. But at one can a month, It was hardly a dent in my wallet. Now, I order loads of snuff tobacco, I have enough to last until I die, and yet want to order more before the holidays get here and the postal system slows down considerably. So, the urge to try new things can make it a bit more expensive. Lately I have been fond of the coarser snuffs that De Kralingse and Bernard makes. And am actually finishing boxes full. They are a little easier to consume and a higher price, but Ill spend that over snorting dust any day. Don’t get me wrong a fine powder is great, fast, dry, no run, nice drain, but not nearly as pleasant for me for an all day snort. In other words, It takes for ever to finish a tin of American or English dry snuffs. Making it pretty cheap. So, I guess if you have to pay hundreds of dollars in import taxes for a small box, then I would find it undesirable. Otherwise, its the rest of live that is swindling us.

Economy of scale probably has something to do with it. Or, to be pedantic, diseconomy of scale. Snuff manufacturers produce vastly less than cigarette manufacturers do, but some costs are fixed, so they have to charge more per unit. With artisan snuffs, a lot of the cost might be research and development. I bet not all of the experiments by people like Daniel, Abraxas and Niger work out, but somebody has to pay for the failures, which may involve considerable expense.

@Salmiak: Don’t forget the Kralingse Snuif en Specerijen Compagnie is a non-profit foundation sponsored by tobacco and spices traders and completely run by volunteers that operates in historical windmills owened and maintained by the municipality of Rotterdam. This enterprise cannot be compared with regular snuff manufacturers. Jaap Bes.

Not to be a smart-aleck but wouldn’t all that stuff make the snuff cheaper? I do think of price when I buy and it’s why I rarely buy most German brands. $3.50-$5.00 for 5 grams of snuff is completely unjustifiable in my book. I reserve judgment on artisan snuffs since I haven’t tried them yet but Poschl definitely doesn’t warrant such a price.

@horus92‌ “I reserve judgment on artisan snuffs since I haven’t tried them yet” I understand where your coming from, I am on a very limited budget and can not justify high prices, I do however enjoy the artisan snuffs from Old Mills @chefdaniel‌ , Sir Walter Scott @Johnny‌ , and Abraxas , @Abraxas‌ I see these as an indulgence, not my everyday snuffs… A bit like the single malt whisky at the end of an evening (OK so maybe Lundy foot is a bit of an exception) My main stays are toques @Roderick‌ which are wonderful natural flavored snuffs, and WoS. The main stays are a reasonable price for the average snuff user. Besides. what denotes am artisan snuff now? Could toque with natural flavorings and the ability to make special orders be classed Artisan? Its a marketing term, which should be for all but the smallest one off makers, which is great, that’s what you are paying for, great unless you love one of their snuffs which them becomes unavailable in the future? Get your main stays you enjoy, then indulge in the odd artisan snuff when you can I say Derek

@Derek_007‌ Just my opinion, but I’ve always thought of “artisan” and “hand crafted” in the same context, along with terms like “small batch”. To me it connotes more than marketing; more a statement that the end product is not mass produced in large quantities using computers, machines, and questionable ingredients. It’s the difference between a great loaf of “artisan” bread and a loaf of mass produced Wonder “bread”, hand churned ice cream and ice cream that is milled by the tens of tons (yes, milled. Mass produced ice cream and butter are made using a colloid mill under extreme pressure at sub zero temps). As always you hit it spot on. There are times and items suited for indulgence, and others more suited for daily use. That wonderful old single malt whisky would become mundane if consumed with abandon. A nice tot after a hard day is a treat. Even if I could afford it, I’d still reserve “the good stuff” for such occasions and keep a good supply of nice, well made blended whisky for everyday sipping. Same with snuff, which may explain why I still go through HDT by the barrel. Let’s not forget Jaap Bes in this discussion. He uses a freaking windmill to make some damn good snuff!

Simple marketing allows the seller to sell something for as much as the buyer is willing to pay for it. When it comes to small quantities, you are paying for the privilege of buying it a little bit at a time. If you want to save money, buy bigger containers.

I’m actually surprised that it’s not way more expensive. Even if the resources are come by for almost nothing, the manufacturer has to pay the work, the rent/upkeep of the factories or workshop, insurances and what else. If they produce other stuff beside snuff like different tobacco products I can imagine it might pay, but those who produce only snuff? I’m amazed that this market has so much costumer potential for even a few companies to survive, ecspecially during the past decades when snuff was much more on the decline than today.

I don’t think I would classify myself as a heavy stuff taker, but I do take snuff regularly and every day. I live in the UK and buy my stuff from UK manufacturers and suppliers, mostly from WoS direct or Snuffstore (Mr Snuff). I don’t want this to seem arrogant in any way, but to me, I almost look at snuff as practically free when you compare it with smoking or vaping. I spend more on takeaway coffee than I do on snuffs every week, and I probably have less than one takeaway coffee a week. I’m not rich and I understand the fact that I am lucky being in the UK when it comes to being able to buy stuff online, but for me, the cost of snuff is simply not a factor. When it comes to Artisan type snuffs, at the moment they are not my favourites, but that’s probably because I’m still relatively new to the art, and these are more acquired tastes. With a packet of cigarettes in the UK not too far from £10 a packet (not to mention the health issues), for me it’s a no-brainer.

@Salmiak: Don’t forget the Kralingse Snuif en Specerijen Compagnie is a non-profit foundation sponsored by tobacco and spices traders and completely run by volunteers that operates in historical windmills owened and maintained by the municipality of Rotterdam. This enterprise cannot be compared with regular snuff manufacturers. Jaap Bes.

Not to be a smart-aleck but wouldn’t all that stuff make the snuff cheaper?

Maybe it already is. If it were run as a profit making business it would be a lot more expensive.

do not forget that the prices for which the manufacturer buys the tobacco leaves, is not far from that buying a vegetable.

Or, looked at another way, £15.99 for 250g of WoS or £13.50 for 50g of dunhill pipe tobacco. That’s a lot of tax- £67.50 for the same weight. Snuff is cheap, by comparison

do not forget that the prices for which the manufacturer buys the tobacco leaves, is not far from that buying a vegetable.

I wish! I pay an average of $20.00 USD per pound of tobacco. After stripping the mid-rib I lose 10-15%. After drying I lose another 5-7%. I’ve yet to see veggies going for that price. Hell, I’ve yet to see beef at that price. The tobacco is only one aspect of the process. Factoring in everything else, including time, is the only way to get an accurate view of the costs involved.

Hell, just think of your poor American cousins! I can buy three snuffs made in my homeland by going to the store; for any other American snuffs–and they are numerous–I have to order them from overseas. So the overseas distributor adds the cost of importing the snuff, then I bear the additional cost of shipping to the United States, driving up the cost of American snuffs at least 100%.

I find the cost of snuff extremely cheap when you compare it to other things like a cup of coffee or a beer at the pub or a pack of cigarettes, etc… A 25gm tin for $6 lasts a long time. If it ever gets to the point where they tax the crap out of it by then I will have a lifetime supply and wouldnt worry about it. If I ever ran out then I would grow and make my own, its not that difficult with a little determination, if you can grow tomatoes you can grow tobacco.

I am fortunate in having a tobacconist in the town where I live, I know, but I don’t think there is any question that snuff is by far the cheapest way to enjoy tobacco in this country. I can go into the tobacconist and buy a small tin of SP No.1 or O&G for (I think) £1.75 that will last me a couple of days. 20 cigarettes of any reasonable quality will set you back at least £8 in the UK. TOR Oriental, which is what I used to smoke when I could find them, are about £10. Again, that would have lasted me a couple of days - I used to smoke about three packets a week. No contest.

I think at the end of the day its worth it, barring the high end boutique snuffs, and the propensity of American politicians to screw with the price/tax of a harmless hobby. I also think we should all buy more Old Mill Snuff, its the only thing America’s got going that has any sort of love put in it.

I don’t know anything about taxation in US/UK. A 200gr 6 photo snuff costs about $1.3 in India and yes this does include tobacco tax. A pack of 20 cigarettes on the other hand costs $3.5 Its still cheaper compared to elsewhere, but the price divide between snuff and cigarettes is huge here.

@lunecat‌ Thanks for the recommendations. I initially wanted to get 6 photo Cheeta but unfortunately it wasn’t in stock. Will try to get it from a different shop this time.

@Kraken‌ Dholakia White, Willie Pete, and Dragun is another goodie for strong nicotine.

@‌Kraken , where are you based, if I might ask?

@JakartaBoy‌ Delhi NCR (National Capital Region), India. That’s why the Indian snuffs are so economical for me.

Are we swindled? No - indeed,by being able to enjoy tobacco free of duty, I have the rather pleasant feeling that, in a small but significant way, I’m swindling the government. Vive la révolution!

@lunecat‌ Thanks for the recommendations. I initially wanted to get 6 photo Cheeta but unfortunately it wasn’t in stock. Will try to get it from a different shop this time.

Good luck with it, it’s a bit too fine for me - I found even staring hard at the stuff will cause it to blow away…

@Kally_Huffs_Snuff‌ As far as I know, they are all separate companies.