Pls suggest the best preservative for moist snuff.

everyone! I m new here from pakistan We are moist snuff munufacturer. Recipe contains Tobacco powder 50 kg Wood ash. 10 kg Lime 5 kg Guar gum 6 kg Water 50 kg We adds alot of preservative as listed below: Sodium benzoate Sodium bicarbonate Poatssium sulphate Potassium metabisulphate Citric acid Boric acid Acetic acid Methyl parben Buthyl paraben Sodium sorbate But No one work proporly. The snuff smell goes unpleasant after few days and also color change Please help me in this formulation And suggest the best preservative

Have you tried using propylene glycol?  Aside from being a humectant, it has preservative properties and a mildly sweet flavor.  Although propylene glycol is food safe, be sure to select a brand that explicitly states that it is food safe (some brands use processes or packaging that may make their product unsuitable for ingestion/oral consumption).  Also, since it is a humectant, you may need to use less water in your recipe.  Additionally, you may have to adjust the recipe of your snuff since the sweet flavor of the propylene glycol may impact the flavor of the final product.

Are you sure you are using right tobacco, @Amjaf? Nicotiana tabacum varieties are not suitable for naswar, like the one if this photo (Shaheen). https://ibb.co/sVpBLXq You need to use Nicotiana rustica!

Please upload a photo of your product.

Volunge pls share ur whatup number

Thatshychef we use propylene glycol but it not works. The result is same

@Amjaf what exactly is the result? You wrote that it goes bad after few days, but its not possible. It is the fermentation process that makes snuff smell different and it gets darker. Its usually a good sign. But I have no idea how oral snuff is supposed to be made.

Johano the snuff becomes spoil after few days. Thats a problem with me

@Amjaf, I don’t use a phone. Feel free to post here (or PM).

We cannot understand what exactly do you mean by “spoiled”? Plain naswar always stinks, fresh it reeks of ammonia. It’s OK! I would be very disappointed if my naswar or chemma reached me ammonia-free. You can scent it with essential oil, if scented naswar is a thing in your region.

Rustica tobacco doesn’t change the colour that easy. Oral naswar, even that of the so-called “black” kind, is far from being even dark. It’s khaki (greenish-brown). If your naswar turned black, something is wrong either with the ingredients (or proportion), or with the process (or both), but believe me, you do not need preservatives for this tobacco product, when the tek is right. If you have wrong recipe, use bad ingredients or run the process in a wrong way, preservatives won’t do any wonder!

Adding alkalis to regular tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum) turns it dark or even close to black. The smell also changes dramatically. If you use Nicotiana rustica, darkening doesn’t happen.

Also, you need to use slaked lime.

Besides Maghrebian chemma, another nice example of preservatives-free Nicotiana rustica oral product is Turkish naswai - Marash otu. Composition is very simple: Nicotiana rustica, oak ash (1:1) and water. Moisture content - around 50%.

https://snuffhouse.com/discussion:/7773/marasotu-snus-n-rustica

https://www.google.lt/search?q=maras+otu&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjpyPvht\\_jsAhXRAXcKHQYrBDYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=maras+otu&gs\\_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECAAQEzIGCAAQHhATOgYIABAHEB5QvRxYyx9gtSNoAHAAeACAAZ4DiAGrBJIBBzAuMS40LTGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=\\_MSqX-naAtGD3AOG1pCwAw&bih=578&biw=1252

Impossible to fail. You don’t need preservatives.

I try to post picture of my naswar but not loading

Its fresh naswar

Spoil means snuff smell and color change

I think its bacteria which spoil the naswar

What about salt (sodium chloride)? Dont see it in your list of ingredients and salt is an essential ingredient. It moderates and slows fermentation and also acts as a preservative.

@Amjaf, you can upload pictures on https://imgbb.com/ and post the link here. It seems that uploading pictures directly to the message board doesn’t work.

You are probably using insufficient amount of alkalis. Try this formula (all ingredients by weight):

Tobacco 38%
Water 38%
Ash 15%
Lime 5%
Guar gum 4%

I’m not sure if the amount of guar gum is right, but this ingredient is unknown to me. Make three small test batches following my suggested formula with reduced guar content (4%, 3%, 2%; indicated by weight).

What tobacco are you using for this product?

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Sir we use number one tobacco of pakistan. Which is from kpk of pkaistan

n9inchnails we use salt but it does not work. Salt create a problem because of it water comes out of snuff

See the spoil naswar https://ibb.co/LkYYmcy

See the fresh one https://ibb.co/5MJdg51

https://ibb.co/jkSFfkJ it fresh

https://ibb.co/yprjFMD https://ibb.co/kcHF2f7 https://ibb.co/RC3ys95 It is fresh naswar

After few days naswar spoil see https://ibb.co/41gGXbF https://ibb.co/FhRbGxg https://ibb.co/6YbXMVK

I’m far from being an expert, but I would say that colour is ok. Those white flakes look like sklaked lime or alkaline salts from ash (probably both). If it’s actually mold, I would suspect that it’s guar gum to blame. Maybe it’s contaminated, or simply makes a good medium for fungi (mold) growth. Tobacco alone, mixed in right proportions with strong alkalis (slaked lime and ashes) and water, should not be susceptible to mold, when pH is 10 or higher (up to 11).

White flakes is paper, it is not mold. I wrote the date of munufacter of snuff on paper in place in snuff for checking that how many days snuff remain fresh. Thats paper

Volunge how to check the PH?

Most affordable and the easiest way to check the pH level is to use litmus papers for base test.

Use those covering full base range from pH 7 to 14. Check your local suppliers. Litmus papers are relatively cheap.

You need to dissolve 1 gram of product in 10 millilitres of distilled water and inser litmus paper at least two times - after one minute and after ten minutes. Calculate the average then.

Or you can use digital pH meter in the same manner for more accurate measuring, but these devices are pricey. The cheapest ones which are sold for 10 euros are not suitable, they are very unreliable.

Measuring the pH is easy.

But in all fairness, best indicator is the lip and gums of naswar user. If you use good quality naswar yourself, you will feel if pH is too high. Too high pH is PAINFUL. The pain continues even after removing naswar from your lip. Your mucous “peels off”, too… Using too alkaline naswar, you litterally end up with a chemical burn and an open wound (raw flesh) in your lip/gums.

If mold is not an issue, I don’t understand what’s wrong with it.

Ammonia should air out with time, at least most part of it, if that is your concern.

Like I said, colour looks normal. Compare: https://www.facebook.com/Mardannaswar/ Also, run google search for naswar images. Colour gamut is pretty wide, all possible tones of khaki.

Also, worth trying making a small batch without guar gum, and the batch with reduced content of guar gum. And the one without slaked lime, only with ashes (consider using larger amount of it, that is, up to 30% ash; one with guar gum and one without guar gum).

And adding 0.5% ammonium chloride.

Ok

Vegetable Glycerin works well but it’s very sweet. It’s a food grade product. I always add it to snus, and sometimes add it to dark coarse snuff for the nose.

mrmanos our snuff is oral. We try glycerin but it does not keep the snuff preserved for long time.

@Amjaf, just checked, the amount of propylene glycol and glycerine in most popular Swedish snus (General and Ettan) is 3.3% and 2.9%, respectively. In other snus (sweeter brand) its 3.4% and 3.6%. These ingredients are specified as humectants, but they have preserving properties as well.

Note, a combo of both are used. Wouldn’t hurt trying (together with ammonium chloride and without it). Also, if you will try adding propylene glycol and glycerine, make a small batch without guar gum. Propylene glycol and glycerine makes the texture of oral tobacco more plastic, you might find it good enough without guar gum. If you want to keep guar gum in the recipe, try using 50% less than usually.

All the things u guys mentioned tried but the result is not good. Problem still exist.

It may be wise to do a research in your native language. From what I’ve seen on Youtube, many guys are making naswar at home, it looks like a very simple procedure - mixing rustica flour with lime and water, or rustica flour with ash and water.

Cause of problems might be:

wrong type of tobacco (or the right, but contaminated or insufficiently cured one);
wrong ashes (the composition of ash of different species differs);
wrong ratio of essential ingredients in the formula;
wrong type of binder / contaminated binder / wrong amount of binder;
contaminated or insufficiently pure ingredients (low purity, technical grade);
the addition of preservative (I am sure you do not need any other preservative for this kind of tobacco, except alkalizers or pH regulator ammonium chloride);
contaminated containers;
wrong temperature inside the factory or storage section / warehouse (too warm).

If it’s all right and correct, then it might be down to the faulty manufacturing process. Ingredients can be added in different sequence. Dry tobacco powder is mixed with dry ash and dry slaked lime, and water is added subsequently.  Or moistened tobacco can be mixed with the mix of dry ashes and slaked lime. Or dry tobacco can be mixed with moistened mix of ash and slaked lime. There might be essential difference. Preservatives (if only they indeed are necessary) probably should be added in the final step, when naswar is matured. Binders probably should be added to the matured product, too, maybe in the same step with preservatives (if only they indeed are necessary).

Also, you can take a glance at patents. For instance: https://patents.google.com/patent/RU2443131C1/en

Watch Youtube videos about making naswar. Talk with the guys who created / uploaded these videos in the comments; discuss with other commenters there.

Visit your state’s technical library, there should be a books about tobacco production, covering the manufacture of naswar. Maybe this book could be of some help, if you find it affordable (I haven’t read it and I’m not sure if it includes any reliable / tested formulas): https://www.amazon.in/TECHNOLOGY-CIGARETTE-MANUFACTURING-PROCESSES-FORMULATIONS/dp/9380772947

I m really disapointed that no one have any solution how to preserve moist snuff.

Pls mentioned the best one. Which work probably

I still suspect there’s something wrong with ingredients, or just one of them. I would make a small batch following your original formula, but without guar gum. I understand that the texture of product without guar would be inferior, but you could check if the problem disappears, when you omit the guar. If there’s no problem with guar-free batch, you can use different thickening agent to get the right plasticity - there are many alternatives.

Also, simultaneosly you could make a small control batch according to German formula, which does not call for preservatives:

Tobacco 50.3%
Water 42.3%
Slaked lime 4.8%
Salt 2.2%
Ammonium chloride 0.4%.

Again, it does not contain neither guar gum, nor any other thickener, and probably would not meet the expectations of your customers, but making such batch would let you know if there’s a problem with your ingredients (I mean chemical impurities or microbial/fungal contamination). If the batch made following German formula doesn’t spoil, it would point that the problem is the guar or the tobacco/water ratio in your formula.

German (and Belgian) products are sold in small metal tins. They never spoil, only loose part of the moisture with time (and turn weaker).

I will try this formula then get back to u

German recipe you suggested is very sharp for mouth volunge. Its totally burnt the lip. Also its required some stronge thickening agent.

But did it spoil?

Its just two days ago munufactured. After few days will show spoil or not.

It’s not supposed to be used fresh. You need to mature it for at least a week or two.

The sharpness will go with maturing. And if you knead the tobacco very hard and for a Long time you will get a better texture.

German recipe not spoil but its very sharp for lip and also have no thickness

Water contained in german recipe is low according to our country. Its difficult for costomer to make small ball to put it in mouth under lip.

Pls mentioned the best flavour other than menthol which to be used in moist snuff??

I don’t use moist snuff, but I think clove is a popular flavor.  Also, mint without menthol.

@Amjaf, let’s compare the formulas.

Left - your formula (by ingredients mass fraction, in %), right - German formula

Tobacco 41.32%      Tobacco 50.3%
Water 41.32%         Water 42.3%
Ashes 8.26%                  
Slaked lime 4.13%   Slaked lime 4.8%

Guar 4.96%

                              Salt 2.2%
                              Ammonium chloride 0.4%

As we can see, German product actually contains even more water than your product. The reason why it is difficult to make small balls is the absence of binding agent in German formula (in your formula binding agent is guar). You would stumble upon the same non-plastic texture issue (difficulty to form small balls), if you try another industrial formula I wrote you in our private messaging.

Your product is clearly more alkaline - it contains ash, which is very strong alkalizer. But your product contains guar, which, besides improving the texture, also makes the product milder to the lip.

However, I suspect that something is wrong with guar you use; it’s either contaminated, or much smaller amount should be used. Unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with guar, so I cannot tell you the right ammount. You need to find it on your own, experimenting with different amounts.

Firstly, try adding the same amount of guar (4.96% or 5%) to the batch made according to German formula, give it a time and see, if it will spoil or not. If it spoils, it will be obvious that there’s an issue with guar (like mentioned a paragraph above this). If it does not spoil, is plastic enough for easily making small balls, feels good in the lip and has good potency, the problem is solved.

If it spoils, though, make another batch according to German formula, adding half of the amount of guar that you use in your formula. That is, only 2.5 or 2% guar. If it doesn’t spoil, it would probably mean you were using too much of guar. If it’s plastic enough and all other properties are OK, the problem is over.

If the problem (spoilage) persists, make one final batch according to German formula, adding 1.5 or 1% of guar. It it spoils, you can try one last thing before drawing a final conclusion that the problem is in that particular guar you are using. This one last thing is: try adding the minimal amount of guar which you found OK for a sufficient plasticity of the product in the very last step, one or two days after mixing. That is, you make a batch according to German formula without guar and let the mixture stand for a day or two. Then add the guar and check the product after a weak. If the same problems persists, it’s safe to assume that the problem is in the guar. In such case it would be only logical to try different guar supplier.

Worth making a batch with 2.9% glycerol (E422) and 3.3% propylene glycol (E1520). Besides preservative and moisture retaining properties, they also reduce water activity, which is equally important. Lower water activity reduces the risk of spoilage. Just to make it clear, water activity and moisture content are two different things.

Don’t use guar for this glycerol and propylene glycol infused batch. Add glycerol and propylene glycol to naswar in the final step, after letting the naswar to rest for at least one day. Well-kneaded naswar should be removed from mixing machine, placed into a clean (sterilized) food grade (safe for food) plastic container of appropriate size and well covered. After letting it to rest for one day, put naswar back into mixing machine and combine with glycerol and propylene glycol. Mix (knead) very well; the longer you mix (knead), the better consistence (more plastic texture) you get. Many naswar makers use engine-powered “hammers” which literally beats the naswar. This step is very important, when it comes to getting the right texture.

One more note. Making naswar, don’t mix everything “in one go”. First, mix tobacco with slaked lime. Then gradually add water with dissolved salt. Mix well. Then ammonium chloride goes in. It should be very finely ground and slowly, carefully added to naswar through a fine mesh sieve (at least 100 micron fine).

Never use slaked lime (or lime, if you slake it with water by yourself) which is made for building (construction) industry needs. It might be very tempting to use it - it’s the cheapest product on the marker, but it’s far from being pure (contains only about 70% actual compound you need and about 30% other compounds you don’t want in your product altogether).

Weight all the ingredients precisely.

Example of possible formula with incorporated glycerol and propylene glycol (all ingredients by weight):

Tobacco 44.6%
Water 42%
Slaked lime 4.8%
Propylene glycol 3.3%
Glycerine 2.9%
Salt 2%
Ammonium chloride 0.4%.

Salam every one here! Our recipes Tobacco rustica 35% Water. 25% Wood ash 23% Guar gum 10% Hydogenate lime 3% Ammoium chloride 4% This is a perfect recipe for our area. But one problem the snuff smell going bad after few days in summer. Pls suggest the best solution

Wellcome back guys

Good snuff formula

Welcome back, @Amjaf!

“Our recipes Tobacco rustica 35% Water. 25% Wood ash 23% Guar gum 10% Hydogenate lime 3% Ammoium chloride 4% This is a perfect recipe for our area. But one problem the snuff smell going bad after few days in summer. Pls suggest the best solution”

Too much guar gum, I would say. I have found 4% guar enough. Also, doesn’t 4% ammonium chloride give way too much ammonia?

Curious to hear, what is your perfect naswar formula now.