I want this. I don’t know a trustworthy place to order from. I want the whole deal- the leaf, the lime, the chopped betel nuts. All that. Where the heck do I order? I’m tired of sifting through all this stuff from India

See if you have any local Indian grocery shops.

Is this considered a narcotic or a tobacco like stimulant? Ive been getting mixed messages from people. But then again the first time I had a cigarette I couldnt stand lol

@tom502 this product can be found at Indian groceries in the U.S.? I am heading to the city soon and if I find a good deal on a box I just might offer them up for sale here. I have been curious to try this stuff. Gutka seems to mean a mix of herbs for oral use that often contains tobacco and betel nut from the minimal amount of reading I’ve done about it.

You can find kaffir lime leaves at most Indian stores, though quite often they’ll be too small to roll a proper quid. Likewise, you can pick up tins of betel nuts, already chopped and flavoured with lime. They frequently also include other flavouring agents such as cardamom, menthol and various spices. I can’t help for other cities, but in New York City you can find paan wallas in Curry Hill in Manhattan, and Jackson Heights up in Queens. Just look around in an Indian neighbourhood for the word Paan on a sign. They can be literally anywhere. I’ve encountered some that were basically being run out of glorified closets with a window that opens to the street. When I took rdunnion around the city looking for Indian snuffs in these areas, we came across one that was run as section of an Indian music/Bollywood movie store. I’ve also got a few tins of Zarda lying around, which I’ve been told is meant to be combined with paan for an effect similar to gutkha. I’ll try that in a few minutes and post back with my opinion on it. http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1305174772/ref=sr\\_gnr\\_aps?ie=UTF8&search-alias=aps&field-keywords=pan%20masala You can actually get several varieties of paan from amazon at the moment, though I imagine it’s a matter of time before someone complains that their kid bought some and got hooked on it. Here’s another site, which I can vouch for as I’ve purchased from them in the past. http://www.desistores.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=50&osCsid=85e9d0dca4f953adee01457bec8e2131 It takes ages to show up though. I remember my package looked super sketchy, I’m surprised it made it through customs. They basically wrapped everything in strips of cloth and sealed with wax.

Also, import at your own risk. I find it unlikely you’ll be caught or given any hassle over it, but customs in the US is supposed to detain the package if betel nuts are detected. According to erowid, it seems like betel is perfectly fine to import, but some cases can see the package seized. If I had to hazard a guess why, I would assume that it’s because with a large volume of them, one could potentially synthesize cocaine analogs from arecoline, which is the active ingredient in betel nuts. Edit: It seems as if I’ve gone and pitched all my paan and zarda, so I won’t be able to comment on the combo. Basically, paan is a mild stimulant, just like nicotine.

I found pan masala at a local grocery, I was told that it did not contain tobacco and was only a mouth freshener. Does all pan masala contain betel nut? EDIT: Ok so according to the all mighty Wikipedia, Pan Masala is a betel nut mixture without tobacco. Gutka is with tobacco. Something tells me that another trip to the Lakshmi Plaza is in order.

I am interestes, what kind of snuff may this be?

It is not a snuff, it is for oral use.

Yeah I hate oral tobacco, but i’m willing to try this…

I grabbed 2 boxes of Pan, one is called GOGO Fresh & Sweet Pan Masala (made in Pakistan) the other is called M5 Scented Supari.

Tell us what they are like.

The Elaichi is cardamom seeds coated in silver with menthol. The GOGO is very sweet and taste like fennel seed candy with a little lift. The M5 is even sweeter than the GOGO, I think it is just betel nuts coated with flavorings. Seems like saffron and menthol to me.

I’m curious to see how the “stimulant” properties of the betel nut work with and without nicotine. Also, do these contain lime? Apparently lime is the most important ingredient to bring out the effects of the betel.

Yep, they have lime.

The fiance and I went to an Indian market today and found some RMD! Finally got to try Betel nut- I just did a little bit to try it out, but I’ll put it to the test this weekend. Alot like a tobacco buzz and maybe… caffeine? Something warm and fuzzy… I’m gonna need to take more next time. I’ll keep you all posted.

On a whim - with some birthday money to burn - I bought a tub of Pan Parag and a bunch of RMD pouches from http://audiorec.co.uk/Product.aspx?subid=301&curr=0 So, what should I expect when it arrives - assuming it does arrive - and how should I use it? Should I just stick it by my gum like I do with an Oliver Twist or lip full of NTSU, or do I chew it more pro-actively? And, (for want of avoiding something out of context) do I spit or swallow?

From what I’ve read on erowid, chew it up just a little bit and place it in the lip (similar to how you would place a dip). When the ‘effects’ start to wear off, chew it up a bit more and put it back in the lip.

@Pike Mopers: I’d have to say you’re either reading experiences by people who don’t know what they’re doing, or misinterpreting it. Betel nut placed like dip would just be painful. You should take however much paan you want, and put it in the side of your mouth, like how you would hold a wad of chew. Also, anyone else thinking namrata and the other Indian suppliers on here must be rolling their eyes watching people get worked up about this?

After reading your description, I think I was misinterpreting it. Thinking about it now they mentioned keeping it in the cheek, not in the lower lip area.

Well, I just put an RMD packet in my cheek like a wad of dip. Don’t chew it- its like a bunch of little chopped up nuts with white powder on it. I wouldn’t chew it- it doesn’t taste too good- the RMD doesn’t atleast…

You’re supposed to chew it a little bit, until it starts juicing up on you, then put to the side. You’re doing it right if your spit turns red.

Here are what the GOGO and M5 look like.

not to be crass, chris, but … “spit or swallow” … … but seriously, is this food or just something on which to ruminate then discard?

I think you can swallow the GOGO, thats probably why it is a candy-esque product. The M5 is all Betel nut so I spit that one.

It’s weird exotic stuff to us, stuff most are unfamiliar with and never had.

can’t wait to try it…

@cstokes4 for a minute, I thought that first picture was a joke and you just put some jelly beans by the pouch. Are they like balls of paste or something?

I think they are coated fennel seeds. If you go to an indian restaurant you will see them in a bowl for after you get done eating.

They look like Good 'n Plenty.

Good 'n Pakistani?

Do you eat this stuff or what? Stefan

You chew it.

That stuff definitely looks like candy lol.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/\\_HXhqoz3SfHk/Sc2DWRzytTI/AAAAAAAAEhQ/Mh6el2vE4Ow/s400/g%26p2.jpg

I can contest that fresh Paan with betel gets the blood moving, had to spit out my quid before it was done.

Yeah my fiance got sick. You get a STROOOOOONG buzz off the RMD packets. It looks like the M5 @cstokes posted, but white- maybe dusted with Lime or something. Doesn’t taste the greatest… tastes like Nag Champa smells. I hear the M5 and the RMD is supposed to be the strongest… Don’t take this stuff if you have a weak system… it will make you sicker than a dog…

4 quids of gutka, made to order, looking pretty horrible as in the attached photo, with two different tobaccos and 3 RMD sachets. Around £5.00. Will give this a go tonight after dinner and post any comments I have.

that did look a bit nasty … but the round silver snuff box looks awesome!

I asked the paan guy for traditional gutkha. I said strong. He said don’t be daft, if you’re not used to it take medium at most. I said OK you mix it. He warned me of the health risks - very responsible selling. I have the feeling that this would be a seriously nasty vice if over indulged in - something about thinning the blood. He gave me some candied stuff, aniseed etc, and recommended this style. Quite stimulating, tongue a bit red. Looking forward to this evening when I’ll give that quid two or three hours in my cheek. (I pinched two of those silver enamel spoons from the missus, nice shape for filling boxes)

@transistor “tastes like nag champa smells” yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

@petersuki: Did you cook that one up? Do you know the ingredients of it? If you made it, where did you get the betel leaf.

WTF~ what is that @petersuki I’ve never seen something like this… Did he boil the betel nut up right there and then just toss it in there? That stuff is gonna be hardcore.

cstokes. There’s a high class paanwallah a couple of miles away. I asked for 4 pieces of traditional Ghutka. It took around 10 minutes for the wallah to prepare it. I got four pieces with two types of tobacco and some RMD. What you see is the traditonal Gutkha with paan. This photo shows the neat quid intact. I would strongly advise against this stuff. The RMD is the instant coffee style, loaded with slaked lime and probably very fine powdered tobacco. Very irritating to the mouth and any sore spots. Used frequently I would say that major damage would be more or less inevitable. Above, in this thread, people are wondering what you do with the hard pieces of areca, betel nut. There may be polite ways of using this stuff, but my view is that you just grind away at them until they disintegrate. This is a heavy version of snacking on nuts. Your teeth will take a beating. As the quid losens up it drops these pieces which are constantly chewed until you have effectively chewed your way through the quid. Blended with the pieces of betel nut are spices and tree bark style herbs. You make your way through a taste fantasy. After about an hour and a half the quid is macerated and you can suck the spicy juices out of it. The whole quid takes between say 2.5 to 3 .5 hours to chew your way through. The flavours are blended to change as you go along. The mouth has to deal with hard pieces of betel nut and the other spices. It is very abrasive and this effect is worsened by the presence of the slaked lime - you just keep grinding the spices and betel down. My mouth is sore from yesterday. I dread to think what would happen if this were a regular habit!!! The mind is alert but not particularly concerned, if you follow. The effect is that the urge to keep ‘doing things’ is dimished and one is content simply to say, look out of the window… Complex actions such as playing an instrument, or tennis, or reading a book are fine. Quite a good stimulation but a horrible price to pay, in the first place, and obviously, mainly in the mouth. This stuff has the reputation, probably fully justified in my view, of ruining your gob and probably causing other serious damage. Children use it in India from an early age, - candy coted areca…

Sorry. same photo. Hopefully THIS photo shows the intact quid.

Trust me, this will not be a regular habit. Just interested.

It’s not something you want to do all the time. You’ll probably feel the same when you do it.

Personally I collect tobaccos from all over the world so thats why i am very curious. This is one of the last i havent been able to get. But i have some on the way so i guess i will have to find the next one. Maybe black bull…

Just got a package containing a 100g tin of Pan Parag and 50 2g RMD pouches. I’ve stuck some Pan Parag in and it’s very interesting… it’s made my check and gums a bit numb, and has a very interesting taste. So, I can recommend http://audiorec.co.uk/Product.aspx?subid=301&curr=0 to anyone in the UK who is interested. The dispatch time was a little lengthy, but I got it in less than a week after my order.

“So, I can recommend http://audiorec.co.uk/Product.aspx?subid=301&curr=0 to anyone in the UK who is interested. The dispatch time was a little lengthy, but I got it in less than a week after my order.” of course, they dont ship to continental Europe… this sucks.

@Prismaster that’s odd, the Help sections states that “OVERSEAS SHIPPING: Shipping Cost to countries other than the United Kingdom would depend on the weight of the package and destination. All orders are mailed through the Postal Services in the UK and INDIA. Order received under REGULAR SHIPPING will be dispatched by ordinary Air Mail or international “Sign For Service”, where customers will be issued with tracking number. However, we do not take responsibility for customs duty levied on the merchandise dispatched.” It looks like http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/ would ship, but the postage costs are insane.

Just stuck some of my RMD in. The pieces are smaller, and there is more powder than in the Pan Parag. It is also far stronger tasting, and much more bitter than the Pan Parag I had this morning. It’s got me salivating much more rapidly. Not bad, just different. I can see how this might become addictive, what with the strong flavours and the repetitive chewing motion. Best keep my usage under check. Also, I found this rather interesting and informative article earlier in the day… http://www.epistola.com/sfowler/scholar/scholar-betel.html

Thanks for posting that article, Spam. Good read.

I just read it too. I learned more from that one article than I had in 20 years since I heard of betel. Very clarifying. Thanks.

Yeah, it’s really difficult to find information about its usage in English. I might as well throw my two pence in… Though I’ve only had two quids (assuming I can apply that term to loose paan masala, rather than something wrapped in a betel leaf) this is how I do it; Gather a small amount in your hand, then pinch it and place it between your gum and cheek. Then, wait a little while, 10 minutes or so, so the bits of nut soften up. One might need to spit a couple of times in this period. After the nuts have softened up periodically chew on the pieces and place the resulting mush back between your cheek and gum. What I’ve managed to find on the internet seems to suggest I’m doing it right. The initial taste is strong, and bitter, with a hint of the spices added, and the menthol provides a cooling or numbing sensation. After some time, and some chewing, the flavour described in the article - a mysterious dark sweetness - starts to come through. Spit as needed and discard as and when you please. Enjoy the clean, slightly exotic aftertaste.

Almost everywhere in the world has an Indian community. I got the traditional quids pictured above in Tooting Bec South London.

That was a damn good read!

I just want to add my thanks for posting the link to that very interesting first-person account, Spam. I had wondered if the claims for areca nut made by the so-called “medical authorities” were as overblown and fear-mongering as those made for smokeless tobacco. That article seems to indicate such may be the case. But of course, one has to consider all perspectives.

I don’t know about betel on it’s own, but I have seen a number of studies here and there online that seem sound, and demonstrate the betel nut/tobacco combination to have a particularly bad effect on health, with a high rate of oral cancer amongst users. I’ll need to look into it, but I do seem to recall at least one study that was conducted based on hospital data from across India, which gives me reason to believe the claims.

From the little research I’ve done the betel tobacco combo seems to be pretty bad for oral cancer. It’s also sometimes cited as the main reason that when people talk about oral tobacco causeing cancer they technicaly aren’t telling lies.

The green paan, lime, areca, tobacco and spices of the traditional quid is quite an experience. I have 3 pieces left from last week end. Will embark on the journey again tonight. You need to leave around 4 hours to get through it. Curry is nice but I’ve never been drawn to eating it every day. I don’t think I have much use for the sachets of areca, lime and tobacco powder or candied areca. Nictotine and caffeine can fill this spot. And, let’s face it, we are lucky enough to have access to great snuffs, teas and coffees for that kind of lift. My guess is that part of the hazard is the slaked lime, needed to catch the effect of the areca. I don’t think it’s great putting that in your mouth regularly . I understand that Indians eat the paan leaf without areca, but with lime and spices, socially. I really don’t know whether that is harmful or not. I won’t be making another journey to buy more in the near future.

@petersuki: Watch out, those quids will likely go bad on you within the next 5-7 days. I’ve had it happen where I bought a couple, and a few days later they were sprouting mold.

I have them in the veg part of the fridge. They are OK at the moment. I must say that this huge quid is tasty. Different mix I think. I am, for the moment, a ruminant.

Lol Peter. Do you have 4 stomachs though? Stefan

Hi Stefan, I’ve just removed the quid. This stuff is not for me. Bit of Kendall Brown in me snout. I’m a rhino again. Anybody want two quality quids of paan Gutkha?

^ for free?

Sorry. Just kidding. It would be like sending a chesse sandwich through the post.

lol

i want a cheese sandwich.

I think wherever there is any kind of identifiable Indian community, there will be a Paan Wallah. Paan and areca are deeply inculturated, probably more so than smoking in the West, from what I can gather. I would guess that fresh green paan quids cannot however be bought on line. Track down your local guy and tell him you want to try the real thing. I think there is a general awareness that this is not good for you, and pretty well no desire to propagate the habit outside the Indian community, where it continues to flourish.

Yeah, if one wants to try some Gutkha, simply walk to your nearest INDIAN GROCERY STORE and ask for RMD. There you go. They’re usually like 50 cents to $1 USD for a pack. Use it like dip. Or if you want to try a traditional preparation, go @petersuki’s route. The RMD is just a ready-made, “instant coffee” version. Not bad though and you’ll get the experience you’re looking for. Strong stuff, actually.

Just got a case of Baba 120 gutka in the mail. By it’s self i don’t think too much of it. Soaked in water and wrapped in a tobacco leaf with sweet chew and it’s really tasty. Stuff is super hard to chew out of the packet. Indians must have better teeth than me.

it does soften in the mouth over time. The trick is to just chew one fragment at a time, and not attempt to chew several pieces.

If you ask for RMD there’s a chance you’ll get the Paan Masala type, which doesn’t have tobacco.

My personal favourite is Pan Parag Pan Masala. Quite tasty, and not too heavy a menthol.

The few sachets I bought are RMD Gutkha. Tobacco is listed as an ingredient.

Fair enough, @petersuki! The only RMD I’ve stumbled across in the wild is that without tobacco. @shikitohno Yeah the Pan Parag is pretty tasty, and I just found out that the tub I have has a little spoon in it… Usefull!

OK, I have some of this M5 in my mouth. Tastes kinda good, like those Boston Baked Beans candies. But what’s the purpose for this? Am I supposed to feel something? The nut part is very hard, it won’t crack. I’ll gnaw on it for 10 mins.

it is supposed to be a very subtle stimulant with mild euphoric properties. judging by the little that I’ve read on the subject, don’t expect much of a buzz from pan masala.

Well, I tried the M5 Supari for a while. The initial flavor was good, but then it was like some hard seed in my mouth. Can’t say I felt anything. Didn’t taste bad, but it’s not really comfortable having a bunch of little seed-like things in my mouth. I guess I kept it in about 15 mins. And unless longer would take me on a magical mystery tour, I don’t see a need for any longer than that. Now, I put some of this GoGo Pan Masala in. This tastes better than the M5, but I guess it is more candied. It’s not bad tasting, I have been spitting with these, but it’s like having a mouth full of tic-tacs. I’ll give this about 15 mins. Is one supposed to use the entire packet at one time? I’d guess so, but I did about half of each one, not knowing what, if anything to expect.

Tom. You’re meant to gradually grind it down…‘Chewing Betel’. I softens in the mouth gradually and you go after it a little piece at a time grinding it away.

I’m chewing these little candied ones right now. Took a few of them (they are tiny) for about 10 minutes and just put in a few more. Could be placebo, but I’m feeling and extremely light euphoria (similar to caffeine). Very pleasant to keep in the mouth. Tastes good!

No. Not placebo imho. A stimulant. I’ll stick to a bit of Oliver Twist, coffee, snuff…

Curiosity got the better of me and I went to Priya Spices in Sterling, VA. I bought 2 packets of RMD Gutkha and 5 packets of Pan Parag Gutkha. I tried the Pan Parag as it has menthol and cardamom in it. I love cardamom. It was a nice experience. I put 1/2 the packet in my mouth and let it soak and occasionally chewed. After a few spits I stopped driving and went into the grocery store. It was about that time that I realized the paan had kicked in. I felt a little floaty and content. Much better than the dehydrated stressed out mess I was when I left work. This stuff is all right. But I see how it can be addictive. The guy who sold it to me said he doesn’t use the stuff but his grandfather does, and that the Parag Gutkha has been popular in India for 25 years. Later or tomorrow I’ll try the RMS which appears to have a saffron flavor. Should be interesting. I was expecting more of a nic kick but am satisfied none-the-less. A cha.

@rdunnion So it worked out better that the massive quid you bought with me, eh? I still think fresh paan from a paan wallah is the best way to try it. Tasty stuff. Although, if anyone finds a local place that makes it fresh, you may want to ask for a non-sweet one, or a traditionally flavoured one. I’ve seen some funky quids in my time, including one fellow who made me one with honey and chocolate syrup… Tasty, but I wonder if any Indian’s really like it that way.

I honestly didn’t like it. But I am grateful for the oppertunity to try it.

I’m on a slippery slope with this stuff. Copped the attached for a couple o quid.

ha ha @petersuki, the “Man o’ Pan”

@petersuki they sell that on amazon too. there is even an Indian snuff available on Amazon (until amazon realizes it’s tobacco and takes it down).

Which snuff?

I think it was like “Baba” and had “50” in the name. I found it on snuffhouse somewhere but I can’t find it when I do a search. It was like $13 for a 50g tin though. I wouldn’t order ANY snuff at that price let alone one I’ve never heard of.

Oh, that’s actually chew.

I really want to try the baba chewing tobacco. Got a case of the baba 120 extra cutka which i like. @cstokes4 do you know what the grind and moisture is on the baba 120 chewing tobacco?

I’ve had the baba 120 before. It was kind of like a flaked spice in appearance. If you crumpled up some bay leaf between your thumb and forefinger, it’d be pretty similar in appearance, though the baba 120 might be larger flakes. I personally found it unremarkable, having tried it both alone and with paan.

I found an eBay vendor today that was selling 20g pouches of Pan Parag for $3.00, with free shipping, so I bought one, just to see what all the fuss is about. I suspect I won’t like it, but thought it was worth a try anyway. Who knows, I may be pleasantly surprised.

I have areca palms in my yard. Every now and then I think about cracking open a nut. But then I don’t need any more stimulants to push me over the edge. I walk a fine line hand in hand with anxiety.

I’ve not read all the thread, so don’t know if this has been said - betel is not any kind of narcotic. If it does have stimulating properties they are slight. I used to work on a team with half the guys from India, we all got into chewing betel all day long - its no drug. It is, however, very tasty - sort of cinnamon/wintergreen. We also used something called turbo pan, which was a stronger variant of pan that a lot of the younger, local Indian community used. If you are very used to chew and strong Indian spice, which I am, its great. It would make you ill otherwise, very strong tobacco and spices.

It is about in line with coffee from what I’ve heard. I’ve heard it’s about as addictive as coffee too.

I have Pan Masala and two forms of Ghutka (Areca and tobacco mix). I intend to get my old body playing tennis at 7 tonight after a week’s work. Pan + Twist + espresso from my new machine, - and maybe something for the pain. Arthritis is kicking in after many years of running around hard courts. If anyone wants to lay claim to any parts of me that are still working… maybe we can trade an organ or two for some fine snuff.

I got the Pan Parag today, and I’ve had a quid in my cheek for about 20 minutes now. Very unusual flavor. Not unpleasant, but it tastes a bit as I imagine mentholated incense would taste. Effects are subtle but noticeable – simultaneously relaxed and alert. If there were a spit-free version, it would be good to use when going out to a club (or maybe that’s just the effect of the trance mix I’m listening to). It doesn’t seem like something I’d want to use on a regular basis, but I’ll probably finish the 20g eventually. I’m glad I tried it. New experiences always add something to one’s life.

Do a search on ebay. I got some last year. I can’t recall the seller. If I find it I’ll post the seller name.

I got 100g of Pan Parag the other day. After taking it a few times I considered throwing it away because I was feeling no effects and it tasted like menthol incense, and made my cheeck numb. Then I figured ‘maybe spitting out the juices are making it not work’. Then I tried swallowing the juices and WOW. Now I understand why this stuff is addictive. Its like drinking a pot of coffee.

Got gutka first time from local shop and just at right time, haven’t been in best of health and as a mild stimulant, gutka is great and flavour of this particular brand, RMD, is very refreshing, almost medical. There’s enough tobacco among nuts and nicotine delivery is boosted by lime. Good stuff must say. And pouch has a lot of info about product and manufacturer among bold promises of cancer.

He’s sexy and he knows it. Seriously though, I must try this stuff. If for no other reason than red spit sounds kinda cool to me. And I’m always up for a new stimulant to try.

I did some reading about Gutkha and decided not to include it on my last order.

I’ve tried it recently, and while I enjoy the taste of both paan and gutkha, I don’t really use them that often.  It gives me effects comparable to a decent snus or dip, but gives me terrible dry mouth and heartburn.  It’s also a mess to get out of your mouth.  Paan is better fresh than in any of the tinned mixes you get, in my opinion.  Nothing too special, but nice every once in a while.

I’ve been thinking about grinding up areca nuts for snuff. I have some growing in my yard.

I got 100g of Pan Parag the other day. After taking it a few times I considered throwing it away because I was feeling no effects and it tasted like menthol incense, and made my cheeck numb. Then I figured ‘maybe spitting out the juices are making it not work’. Then I tried swallowing the juices and WOW. Now I understand why this stuff is addictive. Its like drinking a pot of coffee.

I got this too today from our local ethno super market. Good stuff and don’t miss tobacco at all in it, just took a pinch of toast with it and don’t feel sick, tired and old anymore! Of course a pint of stout helps along too.

In this form it don’t seen to gross. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\\_detailpage&v=iR\\_cb6ts2s4

I have to pop up this rather old discussion. Does anyone of you know about MIRAGE ? Khami ? Can i just put this in my mouth or do i need lime again ? It says LIME MIXED on the package, means that it is “ready made” ?

@Prismaster‌ I just bought a packet of Mirage. I wouldnt recommend the lime, its already mixed in and it is caustic and only serves to facillitate the nicotine uptake. Its ok, not as “Indian” as I thought it’d be.