Just reading this article I came across: http://www.alternet.org/drugs/149599/will\\_cigarettes\\_be\\_made\\_illegal\\_in\\_the\\_near\\_future\\_ Makes me wonder if this is really a direction society may be headed towards - prohibition of tobacco (not just cigarettes). On one hand tobacco is being demonized as it is, but would government really give up the tax money which tobacco contributes? What are your thoughts?

More alarmism from an already over-sensationalist media. (Sigh) Its really pathetic that people feel the need to write such tripe simply to grab the attention of the paranoid; or to inflame the already existing tensions. The simple answer is no, as in never. No doubt there are a few who might wish for such a thing, but far too few to make any difference. Even the author spends more time in the article reflecting on the impossibility and impracticallity of the scenario. Its all quite ludicrous, and tells me the article is irrelevant, they are simply trying to sell a headline to the above mentioned paranoid and delusional.

I think I speak for most of us here when I say : They can have my snuff when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers…

I firmly believe tobacco will be banned in the next few years. Sweden’s head of police has already called for tobacco to be made illegal. It will happen with one country first, probably the US, and the rest of the countries will fall like dominoes. Then they’ll be coming after booze. This will all take some years, like the smoking bans, but that’s where our overlords want society heading. Towards a totally drug free workforce, lower sickness in employees and in turn make the fat cats even richer. I would also say tax won’t save tobacco. There is more money to be made making it illegal and criminalising it and then filling jails with illegal smokers. The ‘justice’ systems in every country in the world have been making vast sums of money for decades persecuting cannabis smokers. The same will happen with tobacco, mark my word. Call me paranoid if you like, but tobacco is on the same path cannabis was on 80 years ago.

No, that’s not paranoid, that’s delusional. No one makes any money on cannabis prohibition. It fact it represents an enormous financial burden to society. Further, cannabis never had such an omnipresent and mutli billion dollar infrastructure sustaining it. When it was made illegal in this country, most people had never even heard of it. Its thought of as more harmless now than at any time in the past. Its future legalization is now inevitable. Its only a question of “when”, not “if”. If you read the article (the alarmist headline aside) the author illustrates just how impractical such a prohibition on toboacco would be. Filling jails with illegal smokers? This makes money? How? That’s delusional. That costs money. A lot of money. No, tax won’t save tobacco. Profit will. Tobacco reaps enormous profits. Those who make such profits will not go away, they have too much power. There is an enormous amount of money to be made in finding safer alternatives or way to counter negative health efects of tobacco. This, I am sure, is the future. Witness the dawn of the electronic cigarette. Technology in this area will only get better in time. Historically, zealots and puritans have only ever held a limited impact on the overall advancement of society. Don’t overestimate their influence. The overlords as you call them know something that you do not give them credit for. It got a phrase assigned to it in Roman times. People (in great numbers) will overlook a lot of injustice so long as they have their bread and circuses.

Xander, you make good points but I agree with oscar about the illegality making more Profit. The reason the marijuana market is as profitable as it is is because weeds illegal. If it were legal, the cost would decrease. Same as any substance. (unless they tax the crap out of it) Many prisons now are actually privately owned, and they trade stocks based on the number of prisoners, so in reality - yes - they make money for keeping cells full. I’d hate to see tobacco become illegal, i would hope we go the way of liberty and legalize all. The states need to get backbones and stand up to the fed. As i live in new york state, we would probably be the LAST place to legalize anything though…

I hope you’re right, @Xander. I’d like to be delusional, time will tell. I disagree with many of the points you make above, but let’s agree to disagree rather than thrash each issue to death.

Just because something is illegel, it doesn’t mean you won’t be able to get it. Just because something is illegel, it doesn’t mean you won’t be able to do it…just don’t get caught.

just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it’s enforced either. not to worried about nic bans. I could write an article about what ifs and all that if possible.

And well anything is possible. I might sprout wings. I should write an article about that.

Governments are complex multi-stranded, multi-agendised entities that react to any number of pressures to a certain extent. The situation with illegal drugs is driven by a whole bunch of factors like fear of loosing votes, whereas tobacco has been part of our lawful activity for hundreds of years now and brings in immense amounts of revenue. There will always be the ‘public health’ issue which polticians will pay lip service to but they are not going to kill that particular golden egg laying goose, they will just modify to suit whatever pressure group has the loudest voice. We will always be able to buy tobacco we might just get restricted, eventually, to home or private use only - that’s pretty close anyhow. Also, the experience of prohibition of alcohol shows that there are some things that are just not practically enforceable.

I will be interested to see what the findings are from the review of the EU tobacco products directive, that should report some time in the spring. I think we need to get used to it being increasingly difficult to buy tobacco. I am most concerned that cross border sales in the EU will be banned in the upcoming review.

@Xander I am not saying I agree with the article, it just led me to ponder the idea.

I’m so tired of this subject and typing responses on it, but I’ll make it short and sweet. I live in the U.S. my friend’s mom works at our courthouse and is WAY into politics. She agrees with me. What we agree on is basically this… Tobacco will NEVER be completely banned. Just HELLA controlled and regulated. Marijuana legalization no matter HOW ILLEGAL IT WAS is now INEVITABLE. It WILL happen. MMJ has grown to an enormous level and it can’t be stopped now. It’s moving west to east and its only a matter of time. To think tobacco could be banned is almost laughable. Never gonna happen. Mark my words. There’s no argument here and my mind could never be changed. Tobacco is too engrained in our tradition to get rid of it. it might be regulated and dumbed down; we might have TWO flavors to choose from, but it’ll always be here. That’s just how it goes though. When you have a bunch of addicts the subject and FEAR of losing their substance will always be brought up. Don’t worry, nobody’s gonna take your precious snuff away We might not be able to get WoS soon but there’s always Bruton’s! lol

bhutan already made it illegal to sell tobacco . you can import 200 cigarettes a week . here is the article http://theweek.com/article/index/211060/the-worlds-first-smoke-free-country good news thou . the french gave satre his cigar back and a comedian called tati his trademark pipe which was banned before i thought it was funny the curators of his recent exhibit replaced the pipe with a small yellow windmill ha here is the old video http://www.france24.com/en/20090417-pipe-free-tati-poster-sparks-controversy-smoking-paris-metro

In the long run, making any substance contraband is counterproductive, and contributes greatly to organized crime as a very profitable endeavor. Nevertheless, foolish health and/or morality crusaders keep trying it. We silly humans build up our civilizations only to destroy them with such nonsense. Maybe one day we will learn to be rational, but recorded history doesn’t make that seem very likely.

Tobacco will never be banned and criminalized like a narcotic in the U.S. Other countries I can’t say but the U.S. it won’t happen. I’m sure like others said it will be harshly regulated but never taken totally away.

This has been tried before and tobacco always won. History is on our side!

I really doubt it will be. Especially in Sweden. Despite what their head of police says, Sweden loves its tobacco, which is why you saw them make an exemption for snus use in Sweden a condition of them joining the EU. I do wish more countries were like http://themoscownews.com/society/20100906/188028616.html?referfrommnRussia with their views, though. At least on tobacco. Also, prisons make private individuals rich, not governments, which is an important difference to consider. And I wouldn’t rate the prison lobby as nearly as powerful as the tobacco lobby in the US. Edit: Apparently BBcode no longer works for formatting links.

I honestly can not believe this conversation is still going on, it’s not going to happen and nothing more needs to be said about it. Topics like this drive me nuts because the opinion driven conversation is derived from a topic void of legitimacy. It’s just sensationalism Can we please just end this discussion and talk about hot chicks or something? seriously…

You mean like Heather Thomas (from the ‘Fall Guy’ years?) I hear that!

@Bart Hot, but your gonna need to go a little more modern. Let’s go with Bar Rafaeli, DiCaprio’s gf

I’ll stick to Catherine Deneuve and Helen Mirren.

Helen Mirren is/was a babe I’ll give you that.

My fear is not that tobacco will be outlawed (although some jumped-up plebiscites would love to see it so) but that the Excise Duty for snuff tobacco (removed in 1978) will be brought back. It was bad enough when ad valorem tax (VAT) was re-imposed, but Duty would see the UK consumer paying at least double the current costs for their snuff pleasure.

I hope all of you are right that they won’t take it away. It’s part of American culture, and others too. What I hate is how hard it is to get, more and more these days, and that the taxes are through the roof. That is unacceptable. For people who say that it will never be illegal, ok, but then why can’t they ship a legal substance (snuff) from state to state? I know that Nic. Rush does, but Iwan Ries, Smokingpipes.com, etc. don’t because they say its illegal to ship a legal substance. What sense does that make? Why can’t my B&M order any foreign snuffs anymore? Why can’t Nic. Rush get foreign snuffs, some which are probably made with US grown tobacco? Well maybe its because they make it too expensive (taxes) to do business. How is that not the same as basically making it illegal. They will perhaps destroy certain small companies that can’t sell to their customers anymore. Destroy family farms because there isn’t as great a need for them to grow tobacco anymore. (for example, growing corn you can get maybe $400 an acre, and $3000 an acre for tobacco) small farms and sharecroppers would be destroyed. (hopefully i’m wrong! and paranoid!) Big deal if they keep it legal. If i can’t get what I want, ie certain snuff and certain pipe tobacco i can’t get locally im going to be a grumpy S.O.B.! Maybe I’m just spoiled these days with the accessibility of stuff from across the world. Never in history have we had this level of convenience. I’m not trying to argue with anyone, or be political I’m just pointing out stuff that I see. Edit: I think it is absolutely delusional to think, with the way things are going, that we will always be able to order whatever snuff we want from the UK with no problems.

@Mark The reason other companies say it’s illegal is because of the insane hoops they have to jump through to be able to ship it. They need to verify the age of every customer, keep records on them, and submit reports to every state the ship to, along with processing taxes at all levels. It’s a lot of work for them to do. And you’re local tobacconists can’t order it because aside from Toque, none of them submitted the information that the FDA required. Pöschl in particular has said it’s a wast of money putting together the data for the FDA since the US is such a small market. Go read up of the PACT Act and FDA requirements from last summer. It’s all there. Not saying it isn’t mesed up, but you’re B&M and those online stores aren’t lying, assuming you’re in the US.

@shikitohno Exactly, if i can’t get it because of regulation. It is illegal, right? What is the difference? And the luxuries we still enjoy with Mr. Snuff, Nic rush, Toque, and etc. I hope will be around till im dead and gone. The way things are going, I doubt it. Thats all. There will be more and more regs that will crunch more and more companies out of the business. For Instance, my state (Indiana) is trying to get rid of smoking in all public places except casinos and horse tracks. This is the FOURTH time they have tried to pass it. They think it will get through this time. They do not give up. Once they have destroyed smoking, they will come after smokeless tobacco! Already have in some cases. It’s all about the ‘kids’, I guess. I feel sorry for my son, and future kids. I would love to let him try some tobacco now and then, when he gets old enough. It is tradition, and relaxing. But why, if he is only going to be able to get cigs, and cant smoke them anywhere except outside 100 feet from a building. Edit: that was kind of a joke the last part.

While I didn’t want to get dragged into this discussion I need to say one thing. THE BIGGEST VOICE IN US POLITICS IS MONEY AND SINCE THE DAWN OF CAPITALISM AND THE UNITED STATES, TOBACCO HAS BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST TAXABLE CONSUMABLES IN AMERICA AND ABROAD. PROHIBITION OF ALCHOL DIDN’T WORK, NEITHER WOULD TOBACCO.

Lord knows I hope your right. But making it difficult and more expensive is not very fun for us low middle class folk.

I would like to see hookah and cigar lounges legalized again in BC… I would love to start one up.

Why were they made illegal? We just had one open up down near me.

indoor smoking probably.

Can they make it harder to get? Sure! Will they? Probably! Will that stop me from getting it? No! There are laws against two other things I immensely enjoy (REAL absinthe and cannabis) and I have little trouble keeping myself awash in the both of them. It is a little more pricey and a little more work but I get both pretty much when I want them. Even if the braindead leeches in the FDA or government want to stop me from ordering it from overseas with a credit card…there will be ways to get it. The internet and individuals with like minds provide endless avenues for trade on a personal level. Once you have established a good trade relationship with someone the customs slip and various things become just another paper to lie on. A million ways to do things. I have regularly gotten mailed things FAR FAR more restricted than tobacco without problem. Yesterday as a matter of fact something of that very nature occured. There will always be laws and regulations and idiots telling us what we can and can’t put in our own bodies, likewise there will alawys be ways around those laws and regulations in order to obtain what you want if you work at it

@TheNoseKnows: Finally someone else who enjoys smoking a nice dubbie while sipping on a glass of REAL absinthe. Have you ever ordered from Original Absinthe, they make some of the best absinthe I’ve ever had, their Bitter Spirit is to die for!

No I haven’t! I certainly will give them a go however! Have you tried Lucid Absinthe yet? First REAL handcrafted absinthe made in the US in almost 100 years. Full dose of Wormwood, whole nine yards. Not made in Europe but INCREDIBLE stuff. I mean AMAZING absinthe. Clouds like a dream. If you like the Green Fairy this stuff is a must try. I’ve also had some authentic Pre-ban, Legler-Pernod from a friend who has some amazing connections. An experience unlike any other that stuff is. Even though I think most people would run away because of the man behind it (Marilyn Manson) Mansinthe is actually very good an historically accurate and Manson is an absinthe freak and really knows his stuff on that subject. Remember “Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder!”

I myself have tried Taboo, by Okanagan Spirits. It wasn’t bad, compared to the really shitty kinds you can buy at liquor stores. I have heard really good things about Mansinthe… My friend was thinking of ordering a bottle online, I’ll have to pitch in so I get half the bottle at least . But yes, Absinthe is definitely a very interesting alcohol. And yes, I agree that cannabis and absinthe seem to go quite well together

I don’t think alcohol and drugs can be compared to tobacco in the sense of legislation. Apples and oranges.

Of course, a little off topic

Actually I think they are very much relative. Particularly with alcohol and cannabis sativa/indica. All have been legal in total at one time ore another. All have been subject to regulation, taxation, and even outright banning. All of them are fairly easy to produce by yourself with reasonable ease, have been part of American society for decades upon decades. The tactics used to control all three are almost the same. There is alot of difference in the substance themselves but as far as the comparison of how they are legislated or regulated goes there are a great deal of similarities in tactics, propaganda, sensationalism and paranoia running through the history of each. I think they can be compared very easily and should be. @mikemoose If you try the Mansinthe I think you will really enjoy it. If you liked Taboo…something like Mansinthe or Logan Fils will rock your world.

Don’t go giving the anti-tobacco fascists any ideas (!)

Ooooh now i’m excited! !

Re: Hookah bars: The laws in BC about smoking inside of structure are so strict that one is not able to smoke in their own home if they have a home office during their hours of operation, regardless of the fact that no customers/members of the public are dropping by. It is completely unenforceable; how would you know I was smoking, anyway? There is, however, an allowance for First Nations to ignite tobacco products indoors as part of a ceremony. I, for one, suggest that some kind of Native Friendship Society is in order so those of us who aren’t First Nations may better understand different the cultures that make up this part of the world. An interesting way around the smoking bans in BC would be to use a vapourizer as the law is specific about “ignited tobacco”. My lawyer tells me that with provincial acts, judges are pretty much bound by the law as written. As far as I know, it has not been tested. I am also not certain that it would be any good, either.

Well, going by that wording, hookah lounges should be good to go. You don’t ignite the shisha, you place it in the bowl, put foil over it (or one of the reusable metal screens) and place coals on top to vaporize it. If you look inside the bowl after it’s done, you don’t see ash, you see a bunch of dry, sticky tobacco. Oldest vap in the world, probably. Also, +1 on the absinthe club here. I’m fond of it myself, although I loss patience sometimes telling my friends that they’re idiots for doing shots of it and acting surprised that it tasted less than pleasant.

@the nose knows I guess what I meant is that I don’t think it should be compared, for several reasons. Here are some reasons: Can you drive/operate heavy machinery while using tobacco, yes. Does it impair your judgement, no. Can you die when you stop using it abruptly, no. Does it cause mental problems with long term use, no. It actually makes you smarter, I think so. Einstein and many other famous smart men used it, and some of them recommended it!

@Mark W Not all illegal drugs impair judgement. To my knowledge only alcohol can actually kill from abrupt cessation. Not all Illegal drugs cause mental problems. Nicotine…like caffeine is a drug. It may not be something that acutely alters perception with it’s use however it IS a drug. That much is firmly established. Comparing it crack cocaine from the standpoint of legislation may indeed be considered pointless and useless. Comparing it to cannabis, despite anyones personal standpoint on that substance, from a point of legislation is not at all pointless however. There are reasons that cannabis is illegal while alcohol and tobacco are not, that when discussing if tobacco would ever be outlawed and why, are very applicable to the discussion. Again…not all drugs are applicable to this discussion but cannabis most certainly is, and should be looked at since some of the same paranoia, misinformation, and propaganda could and would be used if the hypothetical banning of tobacco would ever become a reality. Alcohol fits in there as well because of it’s tradition, it’s deep ingraining in our society, it’s ability to be a benefit and a curse, and other points. @shikitohno always a pleasure to meet another Absinthe fan! I think if one of my friends were to ever do a shot of Absinthe in a shot glass like it were whiskey I would be inclined to scream (especially if it were the real stuff as opposed to liquor store knockoffs). Heresy of the highest order.

@The Nose Knows Benzodiazapines (legal when prescribed) can also kill with abrupt cessation.

@NelsonPipeClub True, I didn’t include PBWS (Protracted Benzodiazapene Withdraw Syndrome) or even Discontinuation Syndrome since I was really only referring to Cannabis and alcohol in my comparison to tobacco in in legislation and restriction. Yes, benzo withdraw can kill, even last up to or in excess of 5 years. Bad stuff those are. I have a script for diazepam (valium) myself and I make sure not to take them on any sort of regular basis or anything because I am scared to death of getting hooked and dealing with withdraws from them. I have A LOT of former experience with other withdraw symptoms and sickness and none of them at all are a pretty sight.

The Nose Knows: I think if one of my friends were to ever do a shot of Absinthe in a shot glass like it were whiskey I would be inclined to scream I think if one of my friends were ever to take whiskey as a “shot” I woud be inclined to scream. The stuff is meant to be savoured.

‘Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve’

That sounds more like moonshine. Yeah, thats the stuff you pinch your nose closed and swallow fast so you don’t have to taste it.

Its also good to say a little prayer first.

Well, it’s voted the best bourbon in the WORLD! Which isn’t truthfully saying too much I suppose, because bourbon must originate in Ky. to be called bourbon, right? I have had some before…you must try it if you get a chance, Xander!

Xander you are so wrong. Good whiskey is meant to be savoured crapy whiskey is meant to be shot as in used for target practice.

@ Bart: I think it just depends on the base. I thought bourbon was corn based rather than barley (or rye). I’m no expert though. Ok, I thought you were making the name up to be silly. I mean who would name a whisky such a silly name? @ bob: Now you are talking some sense.

Bob’s on the Jazz again, … Only the 20 year variety is worthy of the money, if you can find it. Yes, but I’m no expert either. Beer was/is my first love.

If you’re out today Alex stop by here and ask these folks for a bottle: Southern Wine and Spiritsxxx 615 Lambson Lane New Castle, DE 19720- (302)656-4487

How do you know that place? I know that road, but not the store.

I looked it up on the Rip Van winkle site there…I felt bad about the out of context quote and all. I will warn you it is roughly $100.00 a bottle. That’s why it may be best to acquire a sip first…but yes, it’s very goOD, IMO.

I looked on google, that’s a warehouse not a store. That road is in a warehouse district. It must be the local distrubutor’s address. I’ll have to wait until someone offers me a sip then…too rich for today’s outings.

one of my hates is seeing people downing good booze like it’s cheap crap or mixing it with soda or some other strong flavor killer. Too me a martini is a good mixed drink.

Cutty Sark. Neat. Once in awhile on the rocks to release the boquet. Absinthe is my first and strongest love when it comes to alcohol but far too expensive (even the cheap stuff) to drink more than a couple bottles a year if I am lucky. After that it’s Cutty Sark. My old companion both in glass and flask. Damn good booze that Cutty is

Personaly I love brandy. Brandy seems though to be the most regularly mis priced booze in the world. I’ve had expensive ones that tasted cheap and cheap ones that turned out to be mind blowing. Even if I don’t really like an expensive whiskey it seems that it is quality and never tastes cheap.

I haven’t ever really gotten into brandy. All save for one cheap one I actually enjoyed and that was E&J. Not a big fan or brandy but every once and awhile a snifter of E&J perks up a chilly after noon.

Should you ever find yourself in Juniata County, bob, stop by for a drink and a sniff!

definatly. Travel doesn’t seem on the close plans but you never know.

E&J vsop is very good for the price. It’s definatly important to use a snifter. Strangely brandy and orange juice is really tasty. And unlike most mixed drinks it’s more of a pairing then covering.

I tend to prefer mixing with juice to sodas. If I do use a carbonated mixer, these days it’s usually seltzer of something similar. Of course, when I’m running low on funds, my favourite way to mask the taste of kind of eh booze is birch beer and vanilla vodka. I actually rather like it with Stoli vanil, as you can have two or three shots in a pint glass, and for some reason birch beer totally masks the burn associated with it, but not the taste for me. I think the most ridiculous one I’ve had so far has to be Balkan 176°. Take a few shots of that and you’re done. I’m still looking to try some legitimate poteen though, and then my high proof alcohol adventures are done.

@Bob I agree on with you on mixed drinks, though I prefer a dry Rob Roy.

I like Chivas for a scotch and Old Charter for Bourbon. Neat is sweet and any more than a splash of water is a sacrilege, but I am an opinionated old fart. I know single malts are all the rage but they blend for good reasons.

Chivas Regal is a good drink indeed. I’m never opposed to tipping a glass of that when it’s there. I haven’t tried Old Charter personally but I have heard good things from others. When it comes to Bourbon I’m afraid I’m also partial to Wild Turkey

I drink Ard Beg and Laphroig mostly. I would love though to find a bourbon that has the level of complexity found in an Islay single malt. Can anybody recommend?

Try Hine antique. Anybody that mixes that or puts ice in it needs to be tarred and feathered.

well a rob roy is alot like a martini where the liquor is still the star of the show. Mixing good liqour with soda or juice (not in all cases, there is always the exception) to me is kind of like seeing your favorite guitarist or bassist preform with an techno D.J. that plays over the star. Where something like a rob roy is like adding a back up band, it’s obvious who’s the star and everyone else is just helping them sound a little better. Snuffster that’s extreme I think they should be only allowed to drink malt liqour and not the kind rappers drink but the flavored stuff, like smirinoff ice.

The inventor of Smirnoff Ice should be tarred and feathered. Then forced to drink nothing but that god awful concoction for the remainder of his days. That stuff tastes like acid reflux in a bottle

That’s the second time in three posts that ‘tar and feathered’ was mentioned. I’m starting to get a little nervous. Maybe I should leave town after all…

Don’t forget to ride them on a rail right after you tar and feather!

Mark leave bart alone he’s a good guy even if we gotta tar and feather him sometimes.

I think a person that gets tarred and feathered isn’t really too bad, just need to be humiliated a bit. Bad people get hanged, drawn and quartered!

Yes, I was in the chicken business for 22 years and dealt closely with the Amish so I have reason to be paranoid…

What is your favorite breed of chickens? I have some golden comets. They lay eggs like champs.

A version of White Rock is what we always dealt with. I like the - Dominique or Rhode Island Reds personally. I had a Old English rooster, (jet black), growing up that me and my brothers called “8-Ball”. I really miss the personalities of having chickens and watching them run about,though I’m told it is getting popular, even in cities now, to keep chickens.

Yea chickens have alot of personality. I live in the city and I just had three laying hens until one got et by a possum. My uncle lives in the country and has a whole mess of them. I just got some cause I like havin them around and the eggs. I was told my great grandpa (who lived in the city) used to keep some. But that was common back in the day, people even had cows in the city, imagine that. My grandpa told me that the guy would bring the cow to an empty lot next door before work everyday, tether it up, and let it graze. I’d like to see that these days! I’ve heard of having chickens becoming popular too. My neighbor brought me an article about it out of a magazine. She said I must be on the cutting edge! lol yea right.

I live in the U.S. my friend’s mom works at our courthouse and is WAY into politics. She agrees with me. What we agree on is basically this… Tobacco will NEVER be completely banned. Just HELLA controlled and regulated. Marijuana legalization no matter HOW ILLEGAL IT WAS is now INEVITABLE. It WILL happen. MMJ has grown to an enormous level and it can’t be stopped now. It’s moving west to east and its only a matter of time. To think tobacco could be banned is almost laughable. Never gonna happen. Mark my words. So your friend’s mom know’s, huh? Yeah, and I never thought I’d see the day that Record Stores don’t exsist and you are only allowed to put out two bags of garbage once a month. And as for Weed being legalized… to quote Kirsty McColl, ‘There’s a guy works down the chip shop, swears he’s Elvis’.

People have been insisting weed will be legalized imminently since the 60s. I doubt it ever will be.

Weed scares the shit outta the worlds Goverments for one main reason. The effects of weed smoking vary wildly from person to person. Are you gonna get the munchies or throw up? Laugh like a maniac or get depressed? Babble away, never drawing breath or sit there in silence? Fall asleep or get high? Etc,etc…

"Weed scares the shit outta the worlds Goverments for one main reason. The effects of weed smoking vary wildly from person to person. Are you gonna get the munchies or throw up? Laugh like a maniac or get depressed? Babble away, never drawing breath or sit there in silence? Fall asleep or get high? Etc,etc… " Heh, somebody’s been watching “Reefer Madness” or some other hilarious propaganda. A suggestion. Have a bunch a people drink a half a dozen shots of hard liquor and observe. You’ll be surprised by the variety of reactions.

Well said Jari.

it is and there are countries that have decriminalized more then that. I’am looking at the iberians. I think legalization is a given. I assure you that at one point slavery being out lawed looked like something that would never happen. Just saying things are always changing just like my underwear.

I agree with you henwrench. Long term affects of marijuana cause mental problems, no doubt. I know several older people who have done that stuff their whole life, and are dumber than sh*t. That may be a coincidence, but I really doubt it. With it being even more potent these days, I believe the long term affects will be even worse. Why risk your brain and soul? pointless. @bob More of our fore fathers than not, wanted to make slavery illegal when they were drafting the constitution. Fredrick Douglass realized that it was an anti-slavery document, and so did the many people. Also, when first slave ship that came to America (Jamestown) the colonists arrested the dutch slave traders and sent the slaves back to their families all on the colony’s dime. Just some interesting facts, I think.

Long term effects of alcohol cause mental problems, no doubt. I l know several older people who have done that stuff their whole life and are dumber than shit. That may be a coincidence, but I really doubt it. With it being even more potent* these days, I believe the long term effects will be even worse. Why risk your brain and soul? Pointless. *q.v. Four Loko (For the record, I don’t use marijuana or any other illegal drug. I do enjoy small amounts of Jameson/The Glenlivit.)

edit. forget it, what’s the point?

The point is that smoking tobacco in public is illegal as well as smoking anything else.

“Why risk your brain and soul? Pointless.” REEFER MADNESS!!!

It’s not illegal here juxta (Switz).

@Mark W. There is NO proof at all that smoking marijuana causes mental problems. There IS proof, scientific proof, totally and completely refuting that claim. If you yourself are against marijuana use, that is perfectly fine and respectable. However to make the statement marijuana causes mental problems when there is a mountain of evidence saying it does no such thing is “propaganda”. I am sure it is no secret I am a smoker myself from time to time and like you I know MANY people who smoke it daily. Examples of those people being the father of my best friend from high school who has smoked since he was a teenager in the 70’s, started his own computer consulting firm, has 2 masters degree (MBA and Micro and Nano technologies for intergrated systems) and earns more in a week than most people I know do in 2 months and he has smoked daily for decades. It is a secret that is well known where I live that a there is a District Court Judge who partakes and I can verify this from firsthand experience. The only thing there is any real, honest evidence it effects is short term memory and that is only in a limited percentage of subjects. There is in NO way, shape, or form some risk to your soul. None at all. That is straight out of a DARE pamphlet and is almost a sensationalist, scare tactic type statement. One that I find personally insulting and offensive. I have no obligation to go into details because there are parts of my life I won’t share in a public setting but during a several month period I firmly believe it healed and settled the soul of someone I loved very much and soothed my soul as I smoked at their bedside over 4 months while they died a very unpleasant death. If it had not been for the marijuana she would have been screaming, vomiting, and crying rather than us talking about sitting for hours talking about her meeting God soon and seeing her smile and even laugh day after day she was in more and more pain and more and more misery. They of course gave her morphine pills and so forth for the pain but only 2 pills were ever taken from that bottle till the day she died. It was the smoke that made her laying in bed and dying something she could handle and something that gave us good conversations about God, life, love the universe…you name it. Nothing from the pharmacy could have made that possible. I am sorry to have made this so long, and I am sorry if I came across in any way mean but that statement was so offensive and so easily proven incorrect that I could not hold in what I had to say. It’s hard to have watched someone you loved since you were 10 and spent everyday as a child with lay in bed and die slowly day after day and hear someone say something like that about the ONE thing that gave her relief, peace and rest and gave US the last good times of her life. I am again sorry for the length and tone but that just hit a very raw and very powerful nerve. I have nothing against someone not liking marijuana personally, plenty of my friends don’t, but just say you don’t like the stuff. There is no need for statements about it’s effects on the brain that have been shown to be totally and scientifically incorrect. Don’t put down a whole group of often very kind, intellegent, normal and alot of cases successful people because you know a few guys who are suffering from The Stupid disease. More likely that was caused by alcohol, or whatever else they did you don’t know about. I meant nothing mean or personal, that just touched on a very painful yet precious memory in a manner that brought tears to my eyes on what is already a fairly rough day. My sincere apologies

I have seizures and hear that marijuana helps control those. If it were legal and cheap enough I would try it to see, but I don’t expect it will be either legal or affordable in my lifetime. It couldn’t be more debilitating or addictive than the medicines they give you for epilepsy.

It’s much safer then epilepsy meds. The nose thanks for shareing that is really beautifull actualy. I don’t really get into my feelings on marijuana here much. I will say it’s really probably the safest psychoactive drug. I’ve never seen anything horrible come from it. I will say I do expect it to be legal soon. Most youths who don’t partake aren’t even against it, guess who becomes the adults eventualy. Although the main image of the medicinal movement are young hippies I find it interesting that states with older populations tend to allow medical more then young states. I bet it’s because well it is medicinal. Also reminds me of this kid I knew all my life who was always as dumb as a rock and lots of people blamed it on his pot smoking yet the guy came out of the womb dumb as can be. The funny part is he said he stoped smoking pot because it made him stupid, I told him it probably made him smart enough to notice for the first time.

I really didn’t mean to come off arrogant or like a Know it All…but that just hit somewhere deep when I saw the word “soul” and it being implied that it would be at risk. Maybe if people had the experience to smoke or vape with a 22 year old girl who you knew for most of your days because you were neighbors who was pretty much seen by the specialists and told the not one but two tumors on her brain were totally inoperable and basically sent her home with painkillers to die. When you see 100mg of morphine only dull the pain enough to keep her crying instead of screaming until they made her puke but then when she smoked she had not a tear, laughed, and not only had a break from pain but also would be able to eat crackers and drink water without her stomach going nuclear. It would change the perspective of at least a few anti pot people. Everytime I see it or smell it I think of her. The stuff people say about pot is so made up and completely baseless yet when they get the evidence shown right to them and see it is much safer and FAR FAR less damaging to you than alcohol.

I don’t have a soul, so when anyone starts throwing the term around, I tune them out.

Set, setting, physiology and psychobiology are all important factors in any drug use. Cannabis is completely harmless for many but not all users. Much the same as some people can consume more than their share of alcohol over the years and have a healthy liver and others will do permanent damage to themselves with relatively modest but consistent drinking. Some openness to possible harm is a prudent consideration for those using any drug. In the same way as prescription drugs are dispensed with advice about possible side effects that one should look out for, a frank disclosure of possible, though improbable, outcomes of cannabis use seems reasonable to me. Reefer madness is propaganda but then so is the assertion that cannabis is completely harmless.

Though what is stupid reguardless of other facts is the idiocy that a judge or politician is somehow more qualified then myself to decide what I ingest. When for one I’am more educated about the issues of health then most of them and have a greater interest in keeping myself healthy and happy then they ever could. The second idiocy is the idea that health issues can be treated with law enforcement as the primary mode of treatment. The third idiocy is the idea that you can be free when a goverment tells you what is legal or not to ingest. Is pot harmfull or not? Not really the issue considering that everything done to slander or repress it has had the opposite effect.

Well with people in this world that would love to see tobacco outlawed, I don’t think marijuana’s got a snowball’s chance in hell of being legalized. The majority of people simply don’t want it legalized (i.e. Prop 19 in California). I think the best bet for people who want it legalized is to just get it decriminalized, which it is in most places. Then you save yourself some money without having to pay a bunch of taxes on it. And to demonize tobacco and alcohol to make marijuana look better is stupid because all that is going to get accomplished is get tobacco and alcohol even more regulated, thats all. So good luck on that!

Wise words, Mark.

Wat Wat?! Did somebody say they’re trying to outlaw hot chicks…jeezum crow what’s next tobacco!!!