I was recently given some older snuffs by a close friend who had them lying around for years and did not know it. One of those older snuffs is an older tin of F&T HDT. Please see the attached photo of the older tin (right) and a recent tin (left). Can you tell me what the age would be of the older tin? Please note that there is no health warning on the body of the older tin, but that instead the health warning is placed on the lid in very small letters on the lower edge. Also, the wording on the lid of the older tin reads that the F&T HDT is “Supplied by Wilsons & Co” while the lid on the new tin simply reads “Wilsons of Sharrow.” Also, I should add that, comparing the two, the older tin is decidedly different in both the intensity of scent/aroma and “flavor” than the newer tin. We all know and love the recent HDT, of course, but the older tin is far more buttery, intense, and rich smelling and tasting. The color of the tobacco of both is close to the same. About the closest I can come to describing flavor of older snuff is that, to me, it smells and “tastes” like heavily buttered sourdough toast, although there is more to it than just that. It is quite excellent, in my judgment. I am a big fan of modern HDT but I must say that this older version is much better, to my taste anyway. And the aroma of the older HDT, I must repeat, seems to me to be quite remarkable. Of course, I am aware that the aging process likely affects the flavor of the older snuff, as I have a fair amount of experience with smoking and collecting aged pipe tobaccos. But in this case, I am not sure how much of the difference in flavor and aroma of the two snuffs is due to such factors not only of aging, but also possible differences in processing, flavoring, and/or a possible difference in the tobacco itself that was used back then (which is often true in case of older pipe tobaccos). Could it simply be that a different recipe was being used back then? In the world of pipe tobacco it was often the case that when a transition of blending was being made from one company to another (such as Dunhill to Murray’s around 1981) there was also an inheriting by the new company of the old company’s tobacco warehouse, that was in time used up by the new company before they went on to use their own tobacco in blending. Was this such a case? I just do not know enough about the snuff world to be able to figure this out. Can anyone remedy my ignorance? And especially, can you tell me the age or approximate date of the older tin?
Well, I have a feeling Fribourg & Treyer were out of business for a while before Wilson’s bought the recipes and rights to manufacture, so I’d’ve thought it unlikely there’s any original F&T input in there, but it’s possible they were still fine-tuning the recipes when the earlier tin was made. Then again, it might just the the older tin has just been maturing since it was made.
It’s not very old. The original Fribourg & Treyer tins prior to December 1981 (when the business ceased) had no health warnings and included the London telephone number on the tin. Original F&T snuffs were still available from Wix of Piccadilly for a year or so after the business ended but must be very difficult to acquire now. The older health warning 92/41/EEC constitutes the ominous words “Causes Cancer”. This was amended in 2001 so the older tin can’t have been produced more than fourteen years ago at most. The original High Dry Toast, or so the shop manager, Jim Palmer, told me forty years or so ago, was actually made in Kendal and sold in the tall tin at an inflated London price. Perhaps researching when warnings had to be displayed on the tin itself will fine-tune the maximum age. Failing that you could always contact Carol Walker at Sharrow. Despite passing recipes to Wilsons at Westbrook and from there to Wilsons of Sharrow, the F&T black snuffs, in my opinion, lack the very distinctive tarry taste of the originals - possibly because the tobacco does not come from Malawi and the Americas and/or the method of fermentation differs.
Thank you, @PhilipS! Much appreciated. Your explication made a lot of sense as to the age of this tin. So it cannot be older than 14 years. And whatever the case, I wish the currently available HDT tasted and smelled as good as this older WoS version of HDT, but it curiously does not. This is quite clear in a side by side comparison. The current version of HDT just does not have that extra buttery sourdough character to it. But we are fortunate that the current version of HDT remains a very good snuff.
@fredh I’ll go out on a limb here, but I speculate that HDT is mostly a variety of Flue Cured/Virginia mid-ribs that have been lovingly toasted and well aged prior to release. Virginias age with grace as you likely know from your pipe tobacco expertise and the same would likely apply to snuff. There might be a bit of Burley “wood” in there too, to add a bit of nicotine but not so much to interfere with that nice flue cured. One of my favorites is Molens FCV 250. It’s not toasted, but is a fantastic example of a great Virginia that will age well (I think). There’s nothing in it but great tobacco and a lot of love. Kudos to @snuffmiller
@fredh, now you just have to put one new tin of HDT aside and open it no less than ten years later. Then you will know is it the aging or the blend ;). Also, please don’t forget to let us know the results.
Even recent snuff batches can vary quite noticably in my rather limited experience. I suppose the tobacco harvests would be the biggest variable, although there’s probably a myriad of things that can lead to deviations in the final product. I’ve notice this on a few products in just two years of using snuff part time. It’s certainly a shame when the second batch of something doesn’t seem as good as the previous one
7 year old Toque Marmalade&Toast. Wife found in the bottom of the freezer vacuum sealed and in 2oz. Jar with 25g. Wow is so fantastic!! Definitely need to get some fresh to compare flavor to this forgotten Jen.
7 year old Toque Marmalade&Toast. Wife found in the bottom of the freezer vacuum sealed and in 2oz. Jar with 25g. Wow is so fantastic!! Definitely need to get some fresh to compare flavor to this forgotten Jen.
Let us know your comparison test results @nicmizer. Thanks in advance.
@nicmizer: Did you ever get a chance to compare old vs new M&T?
Always nice to find hidden treasures!
Will try and post an educated comparison tomorrow after I organize the freezer to find the T&M I put back in. The fresh Toque Toast and Marmalade is about 2-3 months old. This should be good!
I am interested in knowing the difference between years in the freezer versus fridge. I’ve only put snuffs in the fridge, and I wonder if freezing puts the tobacco in stasis, inhibiting the aging process.
I’m pretty new to the world of snuff and consequently to this site, and it is always a nice surprise to find some of the older threads “picked up” again. Thank you all for being such a wealth of very interesting and entertaining information.
I have a very small old tin of F&T Seville. It has the telephone number and no health warning. It was full when I got it, and very good. I compared it with a new tin of same snuff. It had the same scent, but it was more mature, had lost the freshness, yet was still very good. It was in someones grandfather’s stuff, unopened and overlooked for 40 some odd years. I also bought a paper wrapped package of Regno de Italia snuff, from Italy, dated 1936. It is very mellow, pale yellow snuff that has acquired a tonca scent after I added a bean to give it some flavor. Unless the snuff is contaminated by rust, I’ve found old American snuffs to be quite good too. I find them all the time on eBay.
I picked up a dozen tins of Strasbourg with the old, red label; don’t know when they discontinued that label. Like mrmanos’ experience it compared favorably with a fresh tin, more mature, somewhat muted scent, still very good. I like it better than the new.
The 50+ year old tin of F&T Macouba I picked up is definitely muted, seemingly matured and yet definitely has a mustiness that overshadows anything else. The new tin I just picked up is far better, so this older one had been not stored very well…it was definitely opened before and was sold that way. Still glad I acquired it and tried reviving. Fun experiment and got a cool, old tin…and I’m still going to snuff it despite being past its prime.