Well, here’s the fact: Snuff, as it is, is called “nenänuuska” in finnish. That rather directly translates into “nose snus” in english. If even one of thinks that sounds proper, please let it be known and I shall give you a cookie. Now snus, in Finland, has a rather low standing. Smoking is frowned upon, but not vilified nearly as much as using snus. (Alright, smoking is banned from public places like publings and nightclubs etc now.) Snus is correlated to hockey players (not on the national level, they are almost like historical war heroes here, even if they do use snus… And almost all of them do.) and other rowdy characters, and selling it is ILLEGAL here. So what I was after here, is a new naming for snuff in my native language. Now, it should be descriptive, sound atleast a little bit closer to contemporary than the current one, which is from early 1800’s I think. My grasp on the origins of the word are hazy at best. I am aware I could just use the english equivalent, but speaking finglish isn’t exactly optimal. (Frankly I find english great for nuances and innuendo; finnish is better for clear commands and conveying ideas.) So, any suggestions on a replacement word? Finnish members, feel free to pitch in, and the rest of you lot, just throw your ideas out there and I’ll see about a translation. Also, if anyone else is equally peeved about the state of the… (I hesitate to use the word ‘scene’…) Subculture(?) in your respective languages, feel free to hijack the thread. pax, -Jack
I might not understand the question, because I am thinking: Can’t you just ‘import’ and take in the word ‘snuff’ right into Finnish just as it is? A lot of languages have imported words, most often they words for modern things that didn’t exist before, but not always I don’t speak Finnish so I had to use Google translate to make a sentence to try to show what I mean (so please bare with me) it might go something like: Hei. Haluan käyttää snuff, ethän? Edit – Oops only just now caught the part about “finglish” etc there you’ve said. This is still the only suggestion I’ve got right now, sorry. I can play with google translate and see what else might work and possibly sound pleasing and give a better feel for it, maybe something like "sniffed tobacco’ or something might sound nicer or come out alright in Finnish, I don’t know.
Yes, quite so. I have actually caught myself a few times using the word ‘snuff’ while conversing in finnish, but the peculiarities of our language make it so that once the word is out there, it sort of acts as the proverbial brickwall on the tracks of the train of thought with similar disposition. We do have loanwords just like any other language these days, but it doesn’t work quite that easily. To try and put it into perspective, try using the word ‘lagom’ in everyday conversation. (It is swedish, I know, but the only finnish word I KNOW is loaned, is ‘sauna’, and that has already integrated itself a little too well.) The point of this excercise is, that ‘snuff’ is such an easy word to use, but it sticks out like a sore thumb as a loanword. And using circumlocutions (euphenisms) doesn’t quite cut it. (See trying to use ‘sniffed tobacco’ every time the word ‘snuff’ appears on these forums, and you get the point.) Even after all that, your suggestion is excactly what I’m after, whistlrr. People with different native languages tend to think in different ways, and that difference is what I am looking for. I have had no luck trying to come up with a working proposal myself, and snuff here is such and… obscure thing, even, that it isn’t really considered noteworthy. Hence, the fres point of view is preferable. Edit: Typofix’d.
nenänuuska seems perfectly fine. I don’t know Finnish, but I do know a little Norwegian and Swedish. Snus was originally used to signify snuff. Now, much like in the US with Copenhagen snuff (dip/chewing tobacco), the Swedish word snus has come to refer to the oral tobacco more commonly than it does to nasal snuff. In Norwegian and Swedish (which I’m guessing would be the languages the Finnish word for snus is based on), nasal snuff is now called Luktsnus. Google translate puts that as haju nuuska in Finnish. Don’t know if that’s any better for you.
well…consider this: we do have to differentiate ourselves with “nasal snuff” a good chunk of the time (here in the US we sort’ve have a similar problem with people considering ‘snuff’ to be ‘oral snuff’ or ‘moist snuff’ and confusing it with ‘dip’ and ‘chew’ the at least somewhat similar circumstance we have here with dip/chew/snuff (where the oral forms are frowned on and considered hillbilly, poor, low class etc too) still and then of course on top of that you’ve got people with death/sex ideas they call ‘snuff’ and yes, it is a little awkward or inconvenient to have to say “nasal snuff” but we do, and you will find even on this very board that’s dedicated to just this that some of us (at least I do) sometimes still even here specify "nasal snuff’ so maybe its not such a far stretch to have to go “sniffed tobacco” (or whatever it is that might roll smoothly into your language)? My guess is that you’re probably not going to find a one-word solution, its probably going to have to be some sort of phrase (I’m going on the very vague sense I have of other languages such as French and Chinese where the order and just style you lay a sentence out can make enormous differences to what it means or if it makes any sense at all)
In England snuff is just snuff and has been since the 1700’s. There is no confusion as the use of snus and chewing tobacco is virtually unknown. Its sale is also illegal. Originally used by the upper classes, when the price dropped, it was used by sailors and miners instead of smoking to reduce fire risk. There is no social stigma attached to using snuff and it is even available to members in the House of Lords. Your word for snuff sounds great if rather precise. It will no doubt give europeans and particularly the English a great deal of amusement as it counjours up visions of Finns with little bags of tobacco stuck up their noses. This rather proves your point about the english language.
Or…you can get control of your government and change the laws, only allowing ONE brand of “nasal snuff” (that’s what we call it). So Toque, for example, will be the word used for nasal snuff in your country. Really? You want to change the native language? I’ll have a cookie.
Well well well. Now thant I’m sober, let’s give this another go. @shikitohno: hajunuuska, or loosely “aromated snus”, to my ears, sounds already a lot better. Not 100% better, but better. @whistlrr: I see your point, and raise some background. In finnish, loanwords are a somewhat new trend. Before that, we used to pretty much make up equivalents in our own language. For example, computer became tietokone, or “Knowing machine/knowledge machine”. And even before that, the word lion… the finns of the time had no friggin’ idea what a lion was, not to even mention ever seeing one. So the guy who made up the word, wanted to give us a sense of a majestic beast. Hence, jalopeura, or “noble deer”. Go figure. In short, “nenänuuska” is that kind of a word, sounding extremely archaic. [/end background] This is kinda sorta what I was after. Making a sort of a portmanteau or something along those lines, but sounding a little better to the finnish ear. As a sidenote on that, the word “snuff” has the double-f in the end. There are no words even near like it in finnish, making it phonetically rather ill-fitting as a direct loanword. Also, I was not acutely aware of the usage of the words stateside. Thank you for that. Also also, finnish is a peculiar language as far as constructing sentences goes: One can pretty much mash word up any old way, and still make sense. @London Jack: Thank you for that tidbit. And yes, saying ‘nenänuuska’ in finnish conjures up quite similar visions of stuffing your nose with moist, coarse and dripping sludge of tobacco. @Juxtaposer: Similar things HAVE happened, but it is very unlikely to happen in the current era of information and intterwebs. Using a brand name for a more broad category of broducts, not the state mandated part, that is. It’s a thought I’ll have to give a ponder, tho. And here, have a gingerbread cookie.
Juxta, I see where you come from. In SA the word “duco” means to respray your car, bike etc. (I’m going to duco my car red). Now Duco is a brand name for paint used for spray painting. As far as I know the company does not excist anymore but we still “duco” our stuff!
LMAO @ “noble deer” for lion.It’s not as pompous as the French for “railway” which I can’t remember what it is but translates directly as “road of iron”, as does the Manx word riaad-yiarn which also means railway. Stefan
Chemin de fer…
I have to admit, I do find the “duco”-idea quite tempting. And while I would feel funny referring to my “Toque” as such, since none of it is Toque yet, it might be fun to atleast try and get it going. Toque would, in my northern-finnish mouth twist into “tookki”, by the way. Sounds workable to me.
More language fun (totally OT, sorry): In the early 1200s, a high ranking soldier named Faulke owned a large house on the south bank of the Thames in London. It was known as “Faulke’s Hall”, which eventually got corrupted to “Vauxhall”, which is what the area became known as. In the 1600s, a large pleasure garden opened in Vauxhall. In the early 1800s a large pleasure garden was also built in Russia and named “Vokzal” in tribute to the one in Vauxhall. The first Russian railway line was built to serve visitors to the Vokzal and soon the term was used to describe the station building itself rather than the gardens. And to this day, the Russian word for any railway station is “Vokzal” !
It’s awesome how things like that progress throughout time.
LOL Brad that is brilliant! Stefan
@ Brad Majors: When the British candy treacle was introduced to Sweden, they only saw the name in print and not pronounced, so they pronounce it with three syllables: Tree ah kul. The Swedish band Triakel, spells their name quite phonetically to the Swedish pronunciation, so that English speakers say it their way, lol.