As you guys probably know there are some onerous new EU regulations coming into force on November 19th.

How does that affect us?

Well, I just got off the phone with Dave at Sharrow Mills (Wilsons) and they will be discontinuing 70 of their 97 flavors. You read that correctly.

Worse: ALL the F&T tubes, both the 25g and the 50g, will disappear and the flavors offered in the rinky dink little tins will be reduced to a couple of the best sellers.

According to Dave it will be a very similar story with SG and GH snuffs, though I have yet to confirm. I will let you know.

I spent a long time trying to convince him that he could keep selling to me “for export only” which means that I would at least be able to continue selling outside the EU, but he did not seemed convinced. I do have another evil plan up my sleeve which I will share at a later date if I can pull it off.

However for now we have to assume the worst. 

I am waiting for a list of the discontinued snuffs which I will post here. We have a very small window of opportunity to stock up on soon to be non-existent snuffs. He will no longer be able to ship them to me after the 19th and they all have to be sold by May17th of next year.

I would greatly appreciate your input as to what you are interested in (when I post the list) so I can put in a sensible last order. Should I get any discount, I will pass it along to you guys. I consider it ‘our’ discount for being stand up folks who are helping Wilsons’ out with their problem of having redundant barrels of snuff sitting in their warehouse.

The only bright side of this is that Roderick (Toque) and I have had several lengthy conversations about this and he will have no problem continuing to supply me for export.We will do this until they tell us we can’t. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Trust me though, I will find a way round this if there is one.

Dave

Gad damn. That’s some really bad news.

Damn.

I’m not gonna be in position to stock-up until January at the soonest.

Damn small minded politicians and their paternalistic views.  In a world ripped with war, famine, and even slavery still existing in places, how did a legal agricultural crop get demonized and have such a focus of prohibitory law?

Why must tobacco loving ADULTS be treated like criminals?

Didnt the UK leave the EU?

Whats the point of Brexit if your still bound to their corrupt nonsensical laws.

Here’s the list:

Wilsons List

Take a gander and let me know what you would like.

Remember, even though the F&T are listed there will not be any more of the cool tubes. If you want those I will have to order them next week.

Thanks for any and all input.

Dave

F&T High Dry Toast is the top thing I’m going to want to get a large quantity of before the supply runs out.

Are the mills hoping to return to snuff manufacture once England exits the EU?

Well at least my precious CoC and Best SP seem safe from the ban.  What’s with all the name changes are they not allowed to name them after foods and such anymore?  Raspberry is now Ripple , menthol is cool, honey is bee, licorice is root and so forth. 

They dont keep the bulk in stock. You order it and they get it from wos then send it to you. Done went thru this awhile back.

I don’t understand. What law is this? 

So what’s gonna happen with F&T High Dry Toast?

As it’s an EU-wide thing, would it be safe to assume that the snuff mills in Germany and other EU nations will be equally impacted?

Also, could someone describe the most important specifics of the new law?

And how is this going to affect all the Toque products? 

How is this going to affect all the Indian snuffs?

Is anybody going to buy the recipes of a lot of these discontinued brands, it would be a horrible shame to loose these snuffs forever!!!

This makes me sad!

I cannot wait for us to leave the EU but is the EU really to blame for this? Seems to me the discontinued snuffs are what I suspect won’t be the best sellers. I was devastated when I first read this last night, but now I see the lists don’t think it will affect me apart from Vanilla and Vanilla Ice.

Suppose I am really pondering whether this simply the management of decline?

No mention on Camphor and Mild on either list.

So it looks like they’re no longer allowed to use words in the names that imply natural things, like “raspberry” or “flower” or “honey”.  That sounds like legislature.  

But why the discontinuations?  Is there something about the law that says they can only produce a certain amount of flavors?  Or are they just discontinuing the unprofitable ones of their own accord?

And no more 25g or 50g tubes of F&T.  But… there will still be 25g tins of WoS?  So the problem isn’t the quantity, it’s just the container?  Again, is that legislature or just cost-optimizing on WoS’s part? And if they can sell WoS snuffs in 25g tins, couldn’t they also sell F&T in 25g tins?

So many questions.

I think F&T need to comply with bigger health warning signs, so that’s probably why they’re getting rid of those tubes. I think that could be sorted with a bigger sticker, but God knows if there are other reasons.

@Roderick Quick question, (from my wife actually. Shes British and knows more about this than my American self), My wife wants to know what contacting UKIP would accomplish as they are just a political party.

This is dreadful news! I am currently unable to place any orders with MrSnuff due to financial constraints, but I cannot tell you how relieved I am that I have some bulk stored away. I fear we are likely too few in number to effect meaningful change with our dark overlords. Thank you for updating us on all this Dave. I hope that there will eventually be a “reawakening” once we finally manage to sack the bastards in Brussels.

The original post is dated 11th November, is this 2016 or an old post?

Can someone tell me what are the proposed changes, as this is the first that I have heard of anything so drastic as discontinuing so many products?

I know that my tins of F&T  and  S.G.  have no weights, volumes or lists of ingredients or “E numbers” printed on them . 

Could this be the problem.   If it is, when do we stop. I can’t remember the last time I bought a bag of fish and chips with the weight, volume of gravy, E numbers in the mushy peas and UK Government Health Warning telling you     Fatty Foods kill  stamped on the chip wrappers.

Can anyone tell me what is happening please ?

Morlaix & Grand Cairo are gone? That sucks.

I fully understand the problem now.

Eu destroy tradition

For all our UK members, here is the letter that I will be sending to my MP and MEP later today. Please feel free to plagiarise this, or use it as a template for your own correspondence to your local representatives… “I wish to bring to your attention a situation I have become aware of regarding the EU Tobacco Products Directive. It seems this Directive in it’s current form is all set to destroy the UK snuff industry. Nasal snuff seems antiquated to many, and indeed is the oldest form of consuming tobacco, but it is also the least harmful. As far as I am aware, there have been no fatalities attributed to snuff in it’s 400+ year history. Many people are moving to ecigarettes for harm reduction and support in quitting smoking, but I managed to quit earlier this year with the help of snuff. I had tried by using ecigs and failed. Snuff was a huge support for me to break my addiction, and is still part of keeping me off cigarettes. Speaking to other snuff users, it is clear that I am not alone, and others too have moved from the unknown health aspects of vape, to the more certain harm reduction of snuff. Snuff is mainly produced by SMEs, from the worlds oldest working snuff mill in Sheffield (established 1737), and the old Gawith mills in Kendal, to the newer companies like McCrystals in the Midlands and Toque in Berwick. There are other brands and artisan makers too, all striving for high quality product, keeping the old industry alive, and providing an alternative to smoking since the first British smoking ban in the House of Commons in 1693. The EU’s TPD looks set to destroy this. After talking to manufacturers, it seems that the registration costs for these products, which are based around Big Tobacco operating systems, could be upwards of 10x the entire turnover of these small businesses. Even if they cut their wide range of harm reduction products down to a bare minimum, there is only a very slim chance that the industry could survive. This would not just be a disaster for the businesses themselves, but for all the “forgotten” snuff users who enjoy their products. Remember, the snuff users are forgotten, because we’re NOT getting ill with cancers, emphysema, and a whole range of other smoking related illnesses. One Dutch snuff mill has already hung up their overalls, and closed the doors. We need your intervention to prevent all the UK mills following suit. We must preserve this industry, not just for those who profit, or all the employees who are set to lose their jobs, but for all those whose health is greatly improved by this important alternative to combustible tobacco products. We need this quickly too. It had been generally understood that snuff was not going to be one of the products affected, but this not looks like it is not the case. Please respond immediately in whatever way is appropriate, to protect these businesses, and to protect us users from falling back into the clutches of more harmful products.”

For reference this letter will be going to: Sarah Champion MP Mike Hookem MEP Richard Corbett MEP Amjad Bashir MEP Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate MEP Linda McAvan MEP Jane Collins MEP

Can someone clarify the timescale for me? Is this new regulation coming into effect on 19th November the “deadly” one? i.e. no snuff from then on? If not then what is the status of the “towards the ban” legislation?

Simply put - how much time is there to prepare for the worst?

Anyway my friend here already wrote to our MEPs here in CZ and I about to right now…

@50ft_trad thank you for the template, we need to find out which law that will destroy some of these snuff company’s so we can reference it in the letter. Also it just occurred to me they use a Snuff box in the house of lords so I guess if this law passes they wont get any snuff either.

@Roderick Oops, too late. Letter has already been sent to all parties. @Aamon Reference the European Union Tobacco Products Directive

I will obviously keep you all aware of any replies I receive. I would encourage others to share their replies too - we may be able to get like minded individuals talking to each other, and this will have more chance of impact if there is cross parliamentary support and understanding

Just roll snuff in cigarette tubes and seal both ends. package them to look like cigarette. Blend No.1, No.2, No.3, and so forth.

 Ok sell snuff as insecticide.  

@basement_shaman that would incur all the same costs, PLUS all the additional exceedingly high duties which are incurred by not being snuff.

This is from Bernards website: Dear customers and snuff lovers, Due to the new German regulations based on EU regulations (TPD2) we are forced to make the necessary adjustments to all our snuff packings. The new rules are concerning the warning labels and the look of the snuff labels. That is why we will change the labels after having sold of all the snuffs that we have on stock. The snuffs will only change their appearance and some of them will also have to change their name, but the recipes, traditional production and the quality will be kept on the same high level you all know. The German resellers are allowed to sell the established products until the 20th of May 2017. Thank you very much for your understanding, kind regards, Bernard Schnupftabak GmbH

What the fuckin bullshit are those brickheaded politicians up to now?!? Can we not enjoy anything in this world anymore?! Will I have to pay a fee to pet a dog? Will my piss be measured and taxed? Are we even allowed to breathe anymore?! Sorry, I must stop here, the politicians just wanted to tax me per word.

Looks like there’s going to be an upsurge of interest in home production. Even if some brands and products remain available in the short term, you’d have to be a raging optimist not to be worried that any remaining loopholes will soon be closed. I’d really like it if @mrsnuff and other suppliers started selling equipment specifically intended to produce snuff from leaf.

I am very happy for Bernard , nothing change for him and I think the same for Poschl

Will any of this hinder orders directly from Toque being shipped to USA?

Possibly if we target a specific news outlet with enough emails from this snuff community they very well might run a story which would significantly help out fight.

Also another way to keep supply going for a little longer, the snuff companies could come to an agreement with online distributors in the EU to hold bulk before the laws are put in place. Then sell off the product as normal, I’m sure these laws will only prevent future sales not already held merchandise.

I would commit to the largest bulk container of (pleaseohplease) Grand Cairo!

@Roderick , This EU regulation is highway robbery…very ill-sighted and sneaky on their part

This is truely devastating. It is the long (sadly) awaited snuffageddon for all of us. I have no words to describe my anger at the moment…

I’ll repeat here what i said on the other thread:

I want you all not to worry too much. 

I will find a legal way around this; that I guarantee you. If need be I will open a second small warehouse outside the EU and sell from there.

The only issue is will the snuff manufacturers buy into it, or will they keep their heads stuck in the sand and simply stop producing the snuffs that don’t sell that well. 

Those of us outside the EU will support snuff manufacturers and retailers. I will be placing orders as much as I can for the foreseeable future, depending on how much flak I get from my CFO (wife). Is there anything those of us outside the EU or UK can do? Perhaps someone to send an email to, pointing out the money we spend that goes to snuff retailers and manufacturers?

OK, I found an email address for Rt. Honorable David Davis, Secretary of State for exiting the EU. I sent a polite email. I hope it will do some good. If Grand Cairo disappears, I will not be pleased at all.

I appreciate @MrSnuff and @Roderick’s cocommitment to making sure that snuffs of as wide a range as possible will remain available to as many people as possible. But some of these workarounds that they are being forced to consider are going to be very expensive, and they’ll have a diminished market for their products. At the very least, snuff will probably become dramatically more expensive.

I haven’t heard about this yet but I would politely like to say it’s bullshit

Is there anything us Yankees can do to help?

@Roderick could you sell the topping separate from the flour? Then you could just sell the different grinds of base tobacco, and flavors could be in dropper bottles for the customer to mix as strong or weak as they like or create their own mix. Topping flavors could be a separate enterprise with a link from your Toque site. You could say they are cake flavorings or Icecream flavorings

You could also sell a blending book so mix drink snuffs can be made . I seen a thread somewhere here of different Toque snuffs combined to make them. http://snuffhouse.com/discussion/2686/a-wonderful-list-of-toque-cocktails

And of course you could still continue blending for outside the EU Zone.

Of all the things I have lost ,it’s my mind I miss the most!

if we get an EU situation in the USA further down the pike, myabe snuff could be produced in Mexico? Trafficking of a different sort and healthier I trust

@marco It is in the USA. FDA announced the ruling this year. http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm499234.htm

I am confused.

Are plain, unscented, tobacco snuffs going to be allowed and anything with menthol, fruit flavours and scents, herb essences and camphor to be banned?

This is how I read it.

Somebody please explain simply to me.

Thank you. 

Good to hear someone is listening.

Roderick.     You are on the right lines.  

Home brewers in the UK can buy stills to make bio fuel ,  ingredients to ferment and flavours to add to the resulting spirits, all under one roof at their local home brewing shop.

Making spirits for personal consumption is illegal in the UK.   Selling the individual components is not.

The law is only broken when you assemble all of the components to make your own cheap gins and whiskies etc. 

  I personally would not touch the stuff for health reasons. I will stick to all grain beer brewing.

So safe consumable flavourings and plain  tobacco snuffs could be the way forward.

p.s.  I would not be surprised if the politicians hit home brewers as well in the near future.

Cheers from Art.

.

https://youtu.be/R\\_jH-G3e-bI

I had the same thought as basement_shaman. Don’t forget about raisin cakes (look it up).

I can’t help wondering whether there’s been too much over-thinking. The new regulations could be avoided by simply carrying on as before.

Besides the fact that snuff is hugely under the radar compared to all other types of tobacco, there will be a whole new set of regulations in a couple of years time, and the current government isn’t likely to be seen to enforce any new EU laws in the current climate.

Surely the EU laws have to be transposed into UK law to have force of law, so if someone could advise on the UK law that applies?

That doesn’t help with selling to the other 27 countries though, particularly considering there’s a potential of new border controls/monitoring coming into force too. Besides which, it’s too easy to say “bah, just ignore it” when it’s not us that could be facing legal action. We want our snuff safe, but that in turn means keeping our manufacturers and suppliers safe too. The more change we can effect in the system, the safer our supply routes, and the fewer additional costs get passed on to the end user.

I know the discontinued products for Wilson and F&T . What will change for Mc Crhistals and Toque ? Thanks

Snuff hasn’t been of interest to the UK authorities for decades, that’s one of the reasons the duty was removed (IIRC) when John Major was PM.

I have seen cigarettes, rolling tobacco, cigars etc. with incorrect markings/health warnings, sometimes those made by the big firms. I can’t remember hearing about any legal action against them.

When the new Customs controls apply, surely no registration will be necessary to sell to those 27 states anyway. Orders to there will simply be sold & packed like any sale to (e.g.) US or Australia currently.

@Snuffitaly I have been informed from MrSnuff that at this moment the McChrystal range will be unaffected

@Roderick I think you only have to pay in case you were exporting any of your products into those countries via a local importer, but if you just sell online I don’t see how they would have you pay for this.

We are ready to manufacture / repack  snuff on behalf of all EU Companies if that helps.

Please email on exports@snuff.co.in for more details.

As an aside, I have noticed a couple of posts on snuffhouse stating or implying that 25g tins (in general) are being outlawed. Is this a misunderstanding? I understand if F&T tins are being phased out in order to better accommodate the labelling aspects of the regulations (if indeed that is the case), but have seen nothing in any regulations which restrict the sizes of snuff tins… I know there was originally an upper limit on vape juice bottle size of 10ml maximum, but I understand that was being questioned in the House of Lords at one point. I also believe that cigarettes and loose tobaccos are being hit with minimum pack sizes too. Can somebody with a better understanding please offer some clarification on this in relation to snuff tin size restriction. Thanks

@50ft_trad I think it’s cost per size of package. Like to sell 10 and 25 gram package of the same snuff would require two fees.

Thanks Bob. I was thinking along those lines too, but thought it prudent to check

Thanks Roderick. I just wanted to check there wasn’t a legislative aspect that I’d missed. I prefer yours in 10g or bulk, SG and GH in the 25g, and WoS are irrelevant as I have to decant it into something else irrespective of tin size anyway 8-| Being forced to use the dreaded sneezeboxes again would be a total disaster

Roderick said: -

This is appalling! I am currently in talks with the Government about this but, now is the time to contact your MP’s, your MEP’s, the press and UKIP!

hey everyone. Im having a hard time following these threads. Simple/stupid question: can I still order in bulk (say, 200g) from toque or mr. Snuff if i live in texas. Thank you.

the thing is worse case scenario the work arounds will be found. And the great part is snuff is in this pickle because it’s so under the radar culturally that it will be even easier for the work arounds to slip through and not get caught latter. And if they get caught later well then snuff is well known enough to restate the case again.

America still hasn’t figured out a legistlative way to get shag rolling tobacco labeled as pipe tobacco taxed and restricted according to the spirit of the law. And that is legitimately a big issue as far as lost tax revenue.

In my way of thinking, if I buy 5g or less of snuff it’s effectively a sample, so I’ll either decide it’s a lovely snuff then go and buy a larger size with the next order, decide it’s a so so snuff and not buy it again, or just decide it’s horrible and flush it down the toilet.

Now, I’m not a smoker so maybe I’m wrong here, but the smallest pouch of rolling tobacco I’ve seen on sale is 12.5g, which I’d guess is only going to make a couple of dozen rollups, depending upon how fat you roll them.

If I were to roll my own cigarettes, I’d be combusting that tobacco and inhaling the bulk of it… But if I have a 12.5g container of snuff, I’d be sticking it up my nose, and most of that material will later end up in tissues. This being the case, it seems like snuff takers are being unfairly penalised, when compared to people that like to roll cigarettes or smoke pipes - so are pipe smokers going to be told “Sorry mate, you can only buy a 10g pouch of tobacco, no more 12.5g, 25g or 50g sizes for you”?

I can sort of see an argument that only manufacturers or distributors should be able to buy kilo quantities of snuff for repackaging etc. But, the answer for us consumers seems to be that snuff manufacturers have been ignoring the issue of 10g plastic tubs and boxes not being air tight for far too long - perhaps if they switched to 10g Toque style tins or small vac sealed cans, three could be sold shrink wrapped together to approximate the 25g packs they’d replace, in a similar way that one can buy a brick of ten packs of twenty factory-made cigarettes.

@duerndel, I don’t think it’s a case of larger sizes being banned, just that snuff producers need expensive permits for each different package, so they’ll only produce best selling items. Probably most people on snuffhouse would agree that bigger sizes are better, but, oddly enough, we may not be “typical” snuff users. Whatever the hell that means. Maybe 90% of sales go to people buying 10 gram tins of Poschl Cherry Ripe or whatever. No excuse for non airtight tins or packages, I agree.

Thanks @JakartaBoy Can anyone actually point to a copy of these regulations? I seem to be hearing three distinct issues:

- Pack sizes, which I’ve addressed above.

- Naming - to which I say so what? Most existing snuff variants hardly give much clue as to what they smell like in the name.

- Some sort of fantastically expensive testing/permitting, which all sounds highly suspicious to me, I’ve dealt with testing products to comply with EU regulation in the past, and whilst none of those were tobacco related, the costs were usually in the range of a few hundred pounds for GC/MS or HPLC testing, which is what I’m guessing would be required here.

@Aamon thanks man , you give me a good news

If the smaller sizes (5g, 10g) were actually sold in air-tight containers, then yeah, this wouldn’t be so alarming.  Instead of needing a 25g container I could just get 2 or 3 smaller ones and it’d be fine.  Better, maybe, in fact.

Maybe better in terms of snuff condition, and it not drying out before it’s finished, but it would certainly bump the price up. I actually prefer Toque’s 10g tins over the 25g as they’re more pocketable, and they keep snuffs fresher that I don’t use regularly. I have also used them for repackaging the smaller WoS tins. Once I’m certain I want a snuff in higher quantities, I move to bulk. The 25g tins are perfectly fine, and of course are better value, but I prefer using the smaller ones for daily use. However, I would be happy to buy in whatever sizes Roderick chooses to retain, as the snuff always arrives in tip top condition. If GH and SG smaller containers were the same, I’d probably do the same thing. Small for sampling and occasional use snuffs, and bulk for regulars. I buy the 25g tins purely to ensure snuff is in a good condition till I open it. If they ditch the sneezeboxes and continue with the vac tins, they will continue to get mu business. I outright refuse to buy the sneezeboxes, and if that’s the way SG and GH decide to go, they’ll get no more orders from me. Game over! I will also write to them and explain why they’ve lost my business. I would probably own a lot more Molens snuffs if they’d been sold in airtight containers in the smaller sizes too. I didn’t fancy having to buy 100g tubs just to sample snuffs in the proper condition. Wilson’s tins always get the snuff to me in a good condition, but don’t keep them that way. They aren’t great for daily use, and are prone to rust. All my WoS purchases now get decanted into something else at the earliest opportunity. I consider McC and JHW tins the same. 5g is fine for sampling, but I’d like containers of 50g+ for the favourites. F&T tins work fine for me for storage, except for Old Paris and Santa Domingo. OP and SD always go mouldy before I’ve finished it, whether I keep it in the tin, or decant it into glass. I love the snuffs, but haven’t bought any for ages due to the waste involved if I don’t dedicate myself to them. I’ve not had the same issue with Princes, so I don’t know why some are affected this way and not others. OP and SD in smaller tins may get my orders in future, but I want the others I buy from there in larger amounts. I never used the cylindrical tins for daily use though. I’ll generally tip a small amount into a smaller tin or snuffbox, either neat, or mixed with another snuff.

I do like the 10g tins to decant into although I have quite a few empties I reuse over and over again. I would be fine with 25g tins and mini samplers, 10g is quite a bit considering its just to see if I like the snuff. I really do not mind too much since I will continue to buy Toque no matter the size although 400g bulk is not an option for us Aussies. As long as you can keep the 25g and possibly a smaller sample size would be perfect. Is it possible to keep for example a 25 and a 10g, and with the 10g tins half fill them as a sampler, although it may get complicated to keep track of if you don’t have a clear way of marking the 5g tins.

I’m not a trumpster or anything but seriously Europe ditch the EU bullshit for every pro that gets thrown out to defend it there’s several cons. Could just be im a silly American but it’s like a states vs federal thing. Federal government (something like the EU) will always blow loads, and then if you don’t like your state you can always move to Texas

When it comes to contacting a government official it’s often better to hand deliver the letter to a staff person and if possible talk to the staff person. A politician is swamped by emails, and phone calls. It’s their staff that they rely on to filter everything

Roderick are you moving into space to avoid all laws?

Lunar snuff, what a wicked idea! Maybe get the “man in the moon” to start sporting a snuff tache as advertising

^^^ Moon snuff, great idea!

No… It’s Toque, Cheese and Bacon.  Snuff said…

I thought that England was leaving the EU. If this really comes to pass, it will be devastating! I can’t understand the logic behind it at all. Where is the Britannia that ruled the waves? What has happened to the land of Churchill? The country that stood alone against Hitler’s Fortress Europe? What has happened to the proud traditions? I guess it’s world-wide now, all nations have become, excuse my vulgarity…pussified! It’s just unbelievable.

@mrmanos, yes they are leaving the EU, but it’s not going to happen overnight. Unless that has changed.

and you still gotta follow EU regs if doing business within the EU. One of the big arguments against Brexit was it’s not going to get more freedom for England but they’ll lose the benefits. So yeah at least at this juncture still got to play by the rules or go home. Sorry that’s dangerously political but yeah still explains why this rule effects us. Part of me is hoping this plays out like the PACT act.

@Psicko, thanks for the explanation. I read several comments on this whole thing, and was sort of under the impression that snuff sales would be stopped soon, like really soon. I caught the panic and went to Mr Snuff and Toque and put in several emergency orders. Then, afterwards taking stock of my snuff supply, I realized that if no more snuff were available as of now…I’d have enough for at least 2 or 3 years. That said, I’m still hoping the wheels of government turn slowly, and perhaps forget this folly. Do any of you know if this new law will impact the Germans too? Is the upshot of this that there won’t be snuff anymore? Or will it just restrict the number of them? I apologize for not being more succinct in my questions and comments, but I don’t understand the scope of this law. From what I understand, it shouldn’t effect the Indian snuff market. Perhaps it might inspire 6 Photo and Dholakia to create more snuffs to fill in the void…?

@mrmanos India is having some major economic shakeups. I hope it doesn’t effect their snuff industry. I am enjoying Dholakia Ganga as I type this.

So this is in effect an EU-wide snuff ban thought up by conceited academics and imposed on the rest of us in the name of public health by a disintegrating, hypocritical and corrupt organisation. A typical example of the EU at work, some might say.

The real mystery is why any snuff manufacturer - especially those in the UK - would even pay attention to absurd new laws and regulations created by a corrupt and degenerate EU that is visibly fragmenting. Rather than instantly reducing the range of available snuffs (Wilson’s, SG) or ceasing production (Molens, Poschl), they might have considered keeping going and thereby tested the resolve of the EU authorities in prosecuting these new regulations. 

The situation here in the Netherlands is that we simply can’t obtain any snuff at all, especially as UK producers and dealers apparently won’t send snuff abroad, and Molens has ceased production. By contrast, a bag of weed is available in any of several emporia in the small town I live in…the EU as usual hasn’t thought this through.

@Hapax I wasn’t aware that Poschl had ceased production. I thought it was business as usual for them. Also it is easy to say “just keep going and ignore them” when we are not the ones facing potential fines and worse. Otherwise, I agree. It is a sad state of affairs.

For what I know Poschl will continue business as usual, maintaining their whole range but with some name changes (Gawith Original instead of Gawith Apricot, Ozona S type instead of Ozona Spearmint, etc.) you can check this in their homepage on the snuff range section.

It might be more accurate to say Poschl - apparently - no longer make their products available for on-line distribution. There is only one supplier (Pueblo) listed on the relevant Poschl webpage, and they sell no tobacco at all. I hope that Poschl products will still continue to be available in German tobacconists (not that that is of much use to me here).

I would sumbit that facing a potential fine is still better than ceasing production or going out of business - which is what will probably happen in time to G.Hoggarth, Wilson’s and Toque as well. A product that can’t be promoted, advertised, sold on-line or sent postally, and which is subject to negative health propaganda, onerous taxation and bureaucratic procedures is more than likely doomed. OK, I know that sounds a bit, well…negative, but it really looks like we are facing the end of snuff production and distribution in the EU.

@Hapax

we will continue to buy and sell snuff and ship anywhere in the world. If necessary we’ll move out of the EU.

Thanks very much for your reassuring comments… I have started the ball rolling by ordering a kg and a half of the UK’s finest; let’s see if EUSSR Customs do anything about it.

@MrSnuff has there been any development/change in what WoS will be putting out, Dave? One member yesterday mentioned a new Dr Rumneys Blue - no good for me, as I don’t do medicated, but wondered if wondered if this might be indicative of a general relaxing of their earlier stance. Also, any official word from the Gawith’s yet, and is McC still planning on offering the full spectrum? I fully appreciate there’s still a great many unknowns at this stage, but wondered what the current tone was with the mills that don’t come here and speak to us directly.

Couldn’t the British snuff producers hold onto their entire snuff lines until Brexit goes through and this ridiculous law no longer applies to them?  I’m not suggesting they no longer supply their entire lines to British/EU snuffers, but it’s such a shame to eliminate a huge amount of variety when there is both a large overseas (US/CAN/Non-EU) market, as well as Brexit making this new regulation void for British snuffers as soon as it goes into effect.

Roderick, MrSnuff, Dave, etc; you have our support! I’ll continue buying your products one way or another.

Have just updated myself on all of this. Your letter was brilliantly worded @50ft_trad - you really hit the nail on the head. Have you heard anything back at all? Thanks for your calm, determined reassurance @Roderick. It’s comforting to know that, whatever comes to be, we will at least have our beloved Toque to depend on.

I believe I managed to get a few people in the right places having a dialogue. I seriously doubt I have a lever long enough or pivot strong enough to effect any meaningful change of direction on my own, but hopefully someone somewhere will be a little more able to take my message and wave it under the right noses. I did what I can, and now it’s in the hands of others. I know at least one person who occasionally walks the right corridors has heard and appreciated my message. Whether they can win over other people remains to be seen, though I wouldn’t expect any significant change soon. Those corridors are all bustling with frantic activity on subjects more pressing than nasal snuff at the moment, and will be for at least two years… but seeds have been sown, and there’s someone trying to get those seeds to germinate.

@50ft_trad fantastic news brother!

For those wondering about the legislation itself, here is a link to the EU press release.
– it seems to be from 2014, but is the only information I can find on it.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-134_en.htm

I would find it hard to argue that snuff falls outside of the smokeless classification there, especially as it is not specified as a product elsewhere in the text. eg

“…smokeless products (excluding nasal snuffs)…”

or somesuch.  A shame that they are somehow now forcing it to be the case, but based on those words used in that document, I think that the snuff makers have an ironclad case to carry on as normal as long as they meet the labeling requirements

The EU Directive is just a framework around which the UK legislation is formed, and it’s this UK legislation that the companies operating in this country must adhere to. There may be areas where the EU framework is more open than the UK framework, so any apparent leeway in the EU regs is meaningless if closed off in the subsequent legislation by the member states where the product is made, sold from, and/or sold to. It’s a complete farce.

Ah, which is why Poeschl can carry on with some rebranding, but some UK makers are facing a harder time?  I see this in cosmetic making, too - in Germany you can’t sell cosmetics made in your home kitchen (you need a separate area) but here in Austria you can.  Which means I could sell in Germany even though I don’t meet the “in country” requirements that German people have to follow.

Utter madness when you think about what these directives end up doing.

Just had 2 orders for WoS tubs cancelled. I am not in the EU. I thought I could stockpile…Woe is me. :-<

@Effy Poschl have it differently anyway. They have a smaller range of products than the UK companies did, and all in one size of container. That’s a massively smaller outlay in terms of registration fees. They also have a far broader supply network, and will be well positioned in far more retail outlets, whereas the UK firms are supplying through a smaller number of niche retailers. So Poschl have cheaper registration fees AND a stronger market position. To them this was a matter of petty cash, compared with the Brits whose fees would have been significantly higher than their turnover. The legislation favours the bigger companies selling fewer products, over the smaller companies selling a wide range in smaller quantities. A simple case of corruption - big business elbowing out the little guy by trying to make it impossible to operate, by lobbying (bribing) the right people to ensure the legislation works in their favour. Notice how it’s a flat rate per product for registration, not a rate per kilo of product sold, which would have made it a level playing field for all producers.

@50ft_trad those are VERY good points.  I haven’t been able to see how much it costs per registration, but I can imagine that the tap box + a refill bag per product in the Poeschl range is a lot easier than the vast array that I have seen from other makers online.  It’s criminal, as I am just getting in to snuff and it seems that a lot of the choice is going to be taken away.  But I feel more sorry for the makers than for myself, I must say.

I do not really understand why UK manufactures sell less. I would prefer Toque, Samuel Gawith or any English snuff over Poschl any day of the week!

Aamon, my understanding is that your local shop/kiosk/vendor who will sell packs of smokes are more likely to be stocking Hedges or JH Wilson or Poschl. The myriad of snuff users out there in the world who don’t shop online from specialist outlets, or discuss taking a pinch on forums or social media, aren’t necessarily seeing the options. Why should they pay postage to have something shipped to them, when they can just pop in the local shop on the way to work, or when they pick up their newspaper or a pint of milk. While snuffers are the minority, internet based snuffers are probably a further minority of that minority. It takes a lot more snuffers than just us snuffhouse patrons to keep all these mills in business.

Poschl is a direct sales network . They sell loads because they ve always hit the streets to sell their stuff .

I suspect their market position is down to decades of pre-internet Sale or Return and commercial travellers .  

I m fairly certain I never had Poschl as a UK youth in the early 80s …possibly saw it ‘uptown’ around 1985/6 in the swank tobacconists ? 

I think (might be completely wrong) that Poschl carries a similar dominance on the continent that JH Wilson always did in the local newsagents over here. Now that everywhere has the ridiculous shutters up to stop kids taking up smoking 8-| it’s hard to know if any of them carry any without specifically asking - and it seems too rude to ask them, them spend a few mins rooting around looking, and then walk away without buying anything, because they only stock bloody menthols ~X(

2.4 million?!?!?! Even the EU isn’t that inept. The only reason for adopting that pricing model is to intentionally narrow the range of options - which is mainly covered by the small producers. I include cigars and pipe tobacco in that too.

Hear, Hear! Well said, mate =D>

@50ft_trad  Hear, Hear and well said.

I try to use smaller and local businesses where possible but as for the free market - I think it is too late. Big business and governments have virtually destroyed any free market by allowing large, established businesses to bully and destroy smaller businesses and then use their dominant market position to treat their customers with complete contempt.

2.4M GBP! Clearly, Poschl, RJ Reynolds, and Hedges had a lobbyist or 12, craft this law.

No ,I don’t think that is correct . Poschl got into some trouble directly contacting German government before the TPD came into force . I believe they were just as unsuspecting as the rest of us .

There is no doubt there is powerful lobbying groups from amongst big tobacco , there is no doubt that there has been security service levels of corruption  in the lead up to this ‘law’ . I do not think snuffmakers had many supporters in Europe , whereas ecig groups had been preparing for years .

In my opinion snuff is just collatoral damage in an ongoing process designed to extract local tobacco taxes in a global market  .

Did you know there is a market research company , about 15 years old , that goes round the world emptying rubbish bins to assess the illicit (ie nontaxed) consumption of tobacco products ? They pick up dogends on the street too  They ve done 850 studies in 70 countries over the last 15 years . That is how much governments care about tobacco tax …and Big Tobacco enable it with this ‘independent’ market research company . They want the tax …but they re losing it .

Wars have been fought on tobacco tax , wars have been fought over it too . I would argue that Australia is the  testing ground for the new world orders tobacco ‘control’ policies . A cynic might suggest that this ‘compliance’ register serves 2 purposes . 

First it seeks control the access to the tobacco business …with registers and fees and red tape . They hope to concentrate the business into a few major , easy to tax , compliant players . As it stands the UK revenue must be losing a chunk to ‘dutyfree’ , another chunk to counterfeiters , another chunk to whole leaf users  and loads of chunks to the vapers They want it back . 

Second it is simply a Doomsday book for future taxation . A cynic might  expect a 60% tax on all tobacco products in the near future , including ecigarette hardware . 

Wow, that is a terrible state of affairs.  

For cosmetics, the registration is free if you do it yourself online, but the recipe has to be approved by a certified chemist.  These chemists can of course offer deal like “main recipe with 8 slight (colour, scent) variations for x?” which at least gives some room.  That is the same for P&G as it is for “Grandma’s Old Fashioned Skin Creams”, except that the big corps will have their own in house chemists so they can churn out endless products with little impact.

This way with snuff is maddeningly negative for the small manufacturers with a larger range.

Can they at least keep the core elements and monitor interest in the other products, licensing them as and when there would be enough interest to make it viable?

Also, if just 10 people got together and wanted product x in size y, could they pay their supplier a 12 gbp premium to have access to it?  Makes it much more expensive, but would still be available.  If 100 people wanted it, then it is of course just a 1.2gbp premium for that particular snuff in that particular size.  

Far from ideal, but is one way to stop your favourite snuffs from dying forever.

The rabbithole goes pretty deep with the TPD . It’s as bent as a ninebob note http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php?title=TPD:_Burglaries . That is spy level stuff .

It works with copy/paste : http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php?title=TPD:\\_Burglaries

You re probably safer not knowing @Roderick . Then you wont find your own office ransacked one morning :).

I m not given to conspiracy theories but I have been following this one for a long time . In my opinion , the fix is in …and has been in for a long time . We just get to affect the details .

I dunno if you follow the UK ecigarette advocacy sphere Roderick ? There is a fair bit of crossover interest in the output of ECITA, the NNA and other independent advocates . Once I learn to do links that work , I can put up TPD related titbits if you d like? 

What a confusing bunch of rules! On my end, as consumer, it has motivated me to buy snuff in quantities I rarely ever have. For example, I recently went berserk worrying that I’d never be able to get SG Black Rappee, and in consequence of that, I found a 1lb tub of it, and London Brown, from snuff.me.uk. And Wilsons, I’ve bought huge amounts of snuffs I hardly ever used before. Oh, and 400 g of various Toques! The upshot is that I have bought far more than I ever have in a short period of time. Do I feel like an idiot? Yep, but I’m thrilled in a weird, snuff addict kind of way…I have enough to last me for several years if the shit hit the fan. But after reading everything that people wrote on this page, I can finally relax and get back to worrying about the economy, terrorists “flooding into” the U.S., and other assorted things.

@Roderick I doubt very much that they’d be sloppy enough to have generated any kind of hard copy documents anywhere to incriminate themselves with, but I’d certainly be willing to build/write you a cunningly and carefully written “case file” demonstrating how badly things are purposefully loaded against you. If you want me to look at doing any “projects” for you, you’ve got my contact details

Wait, I thought she just “wiped it, like, with a rag” ;

I am a little confused…and upset of course; my main driver was wos chocolate orange, devastated by the loss…not sure how i will cope.To make things worse I cant even order from wos what little is left anymore, seems its only uk shipping now. I decided to go through the EU regulation…but it seems to me that snuff is clearly stated as “exent” from this new legislation, mainly because its a niche market. Has someone looked into it? Did I miss out something?

I found that “COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2016/779 of 18 May 2016” that can be downloaded from the EU official journal simply enforces a previous legislation named

"DIRECTIVE 2014/40/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL

of 3 April 2014" (can also be found on the EU official journal). Within this document it clearly says that the regulations are for “cigarettes and roll-your-own tobacco”. The document differentiates between “smokeless” and smoking tobacco and defines:

(5)

Not sure why I cant seem to finish my post O_o

If the recent immigrants flooding the EU take up snuffing, the policy will be reversed in short order.

mrmanos Well it’s hard to go wrong with SG Black Rappee (which was my first snuff) and London Brown

@roderick Oh I see…but I did not use any special characters…well anyway, the point is; I read the eu regulation and I could not pin point anything that nailed nasal snuff as affected by this new regulations. Does anyone know exactly what does? Are we all sure there is no over panicking and someone has misread? I even found this statement:

“12. Tobacco products other than cigarettes and roll-your-own tobacco shall be exempted from the prohibitions laid down in paragraphs 1 and 7” that state the following:

1. Member States shall prohibit the placing on the market of tobacco products with a characterising flavour.

2. Member States shall prohibit the placing on the market of tobacco products containing flavourings

ps: if the issue is the fee 120 pounds a year means that it would only take a up-mark of 0.50 p on all snuff to recover cost (provided you sell at least 240 in a year per each size for the first year to recuperate fully the cost, and 0.25 the following years). And that is a pretty aggressive approach, +0.25 or less should be feasible if you sell more. 

@Liam the cost to Toque is 120gbp for each individual product, and each individial size sold. Take Toque Raspberry for example you would have 5g and 10g Silver Dollar, 10 and 25g tins, the bullet, and each 50, 100, 200 and 400g bulk bags. Just for Toque Raspberry you have 1,080gbp. Then you have all the different flavors not to mention Toque USA.

@anon True but that would be irrelevant because you would implement the price increase across lines and sizes. This would mean that Toque raspberry would cost 5g tin +0.25 10 g +025  etc…Main problem would be the first year as you would have to fork out the price upfront before recuperating. Thats probably why WOS has cut a lot of flavors so it can invest on what they considered main drivers in sales…either way it still sucks=/ just trying to see the “bright” side, its not all loom and gloom, options are available.

This situation in some ways is reminiscent of the demise of The Lancashire Watch Company in Prescot, Lancashire, England.

They tried to please everyone at the same. 

This was in the days when key wind watches were still being made, and the Swiss watch industry was hammering at our door.

The Prescot factory produced a huge range of watch movements, using machines and a lot of skilled hand work. 

 Key wind and button wind watches.    Movement qualities from basic working men’s through intermediate models and ultimately top of the range for wealthy customers.  These were complimented with silver or gold cases, open faced pocket watches, half hunter and full hunter cases, again in a host of different qualities.

If you think of the possible number of combinations of watch movements, cases and styles that could be permutated from the choices available, and were produced, by the factory in a hope of pleasing everyone, it is no wonder they went under.

You have got to take a lesson from the past and cut down the number of options.

Thereby cutting down costs.

If the charge is being applied to each size of product made available, cut it down to three options,

a reasonable sampler size, a respectable 25 gram and a bulk option.

Just two or three instead of offering five or six package sizes of the one product.  

The same applies to flavours/tastes. 

But for the life of me I cannot see why certain classics have been dropped and some bar room joke/novelty flavours have survived.

These are bad times for manufacturers and consumers, with difficult choices to be made in the board rooms.

I hope you can learn from the past and keep a decent range of products but with a reduced range of sizes.

Cheers.

Exactly - if you offer a certain flavour in 5 sizes and sell hardly any of any size in Europe, then don’t sell that in Europe.  If you sell one particular size of that flavour well but not the other sizes, register that size.  It’s far from ideal, but rather than seeing it as that total number for the entire range, I am sure that there are flavour/size combinations where it is a clear fact that they should be registered and then others where it is clear that they shouldn’t be.

The ones that fall in between could be an issue - working out at which point a certain combination is selling well enough to make it worthwhile.  While that is all very harsh on the few people who like their 10g in a silver dollar rather than a tap box or so on, but that is much better than totally closing down in Europe because registering each and every combination is too much.

For the record, I think that the registration set up is woefully badly thought out!  There are many instances where legislation has been enacted without thinking through all of the possible consequences.  

Indeed - as I said, I think the registration is badly thought out.  From reading and re-reading the text of the legislation I can’t see how snuff can even be considered to be included, too.  

But my point being that, in the worst of the worst cases, it’s not “we can’t sell any snuff in Europe” rather “we can now only sell a restricted range in Europe” so the customers can at least still get something.

@Effy The problem is that would mean a retailer has to be 100% up to date at all times as to which products have been registered in which countries, in which size containers, and know for certain that they are up to date with their annual fees. Also, which areas have decided to curtail distance selling. Which stock can be sold to which countries to comply with labelling requirements, or any other subsequent restrictions. Blah blah blah blah… It’s simply not realistic for retailers to work on this basis. As a result, retailers will either not bother because it’s simply not worth the hassle, or they’ll ignore the rules and argue about them later. I really don’t blame the ones who have decided it’s more hassle than it’s worth and now refuse to ship across borders.

That IS true,  @50ft_trad  - a shame, a (insert expletive) shame.  I got back in to snuff at the wrong time in the wrong place.

That said, I AM next to the Swiss border, so if the suppliers can keep it coming to Switzerland, there is hope!

Virtually all of my snuff is bought over the internet or by telephone.

But.

Oh for the days when you could walk into a tobacconists and ask for an ounce of snuff straight from the bulk jar on the shelf.  How would the rules affect a lady or gent walking into a shop these days and asking for an ounce to go straight from the spoon and into their own snuff box?  That’s if you could find someone retailing like that nowadays.

My grandmother used to sell it in her shop that way, straight into your own snuff box or served in a twist of paper.

Happy Days

It would be a puzzler for the powers that be.

Actually, registering “loose” or “to order” would be a damn fine way of collating the registration fees for a range of packaging sizes. Not sure if that would pass scrutiny, but it would certainly be worth a try

I wonder if    "one tin size fits all " could be a worker for artisan snuff makers.

It is doubtful that bijou snuff makers use expensive automatic filling machines. 

 One tin size but with whatever quantity of snuff you require .

Just like buying coffee beans and such like in a delicatessen, one size paper bag with anything from a few ounces to a pound.

Does anyone have the WoS list of snuffs that didn’t survive the EU regs?

@Afterglow Here’s the full list I compiled… Snuffs lost in 2016/17 Bernard ~ Gekachelter Virginie Bernard ~ Alkoholfrei Frederick Tranters ~ Beau Nash Frederick Tranters ~ Brunswick Frederick Tranters ~ Citrus Frederick Tranters ~ Cotswold Frederick Tranters ~ Country Doctor Frederick Tranters ~ Finistaire Frederick Tranters ~ Hobsons Choice Frederick Tranters ~ Dr Johnson Frederick Tranters ~ Light Mint Frederick Tranters ~ Otto De Rose Frederick Tranters ~ Regency Frederick Tranters ~ 29 Special Frederick Tranters ~ Medicated Extra Menthol Frederick Tranters ~ Best SP Frederick Tranters ~ Wallflower Frederick Tranters ~ Menthol Frederick Tranters ~ Carnation Frederick Tranters ~ Jockey Club Frederick Tranters ~ IHT No 22 Frederick Tranters ~ Princes Fribourg and Treyer ~ Kendal Brown Fribourg and Treyer ~ Morocco Fribourg and Treyer ~ Bureau Gawith Hoggarth ~ Almond Gawith Hoggarth ~ Aniseed Gawith Hoggarth ~ Ambassador Gawith Hoggarth ~ Carnation Gawith Hoggarth ~ Cherry Gawith Hoggarth ~ Cinnamon Gawith Hoggarth ~ Dry Orange Gawith Hoggarth ~ English Rose Gawith Hoggarth ~ Eucalyptus Gawith Hoggarth ~ Fleurette Gawith Hoggarth ~ Jasmine Gawith Hoggarth ~ Jockey Club Gawith Hoggarth ~ Lakeland Gawith Hoggarth ~ Mitchells Gawith Hoggarth ~ M4X Gawith Hoggarth ~ Peppermint Gawith Hoggarth ~ Sandalwood Gawith Hoggarth ~ Sea Breezes Gawith Hoggarth ~ Spartan Gawith Hoggarth ~ Strawberry Gawith Hoggarth ~ Tia Maria Gawith Hoggarth ~ Wallflower Gawith Hoggarth ~ Western Glory Gawith Hoggarth ~ Whisky Gawith Hoggarth ~ Wild Mint Molens de Kralingse ~ A/P Molens de Kralingse ~ Bon Bon Molens de Kralingse ~ Brasil Molens de Kralingse ~ Brasil with Kashubian sauce Molens de Kralingse ~ Choco Molens de Kralingse ~ Chococreme Molens de Kralingse ~ Chocomint Molens de Kralingse ~ FCV250 Molens de Kralingse ~ FCV400 Molens de Kralingse ~ Gingerbread Molens de Kralingse ~ Hollandse Molens de Kralingse ~ Hollandse Bolongaro Molens de Kralingse ~ Limburger Tabak Molens de Kralingse ~ Macouba Molens de Kralingse ~ Mentholin Molens de Kralingse ~ Mettaijer Molens de Kralingse ~ Mississippi Molens de Kralingse ~ Musino Tabak Molens de Kralingse ~ Oranje Molens de Kralingse ~ Peppermunt Molens de Kralingse ~ Pot Pourri No 1 Molens de Kralingse ~ Pot Pourri No 2 Molens de Kralingse ~ Prins Regent Molens de Kralingse ~ Son de Tonca Molens de Kralingse ~ St Omer No 1 Old Mill ~ Alpine Old Mill ~ Antebellum Old Mill ~ Arabesque Old Mill ~ Bananas Foster Old Mill ~ Black Ice Old Mill ~ Black Velvet Old Mill ~ Buttered Rum Toddy Old Mill ~ Butternut Old Mill ~ Calypso Old Mill ~ Commonwealth Old Mill ~ Cupids Crest Old Mill ~ Equinox Old Mill ~ Fire and Ice Old Mill ~ Javelin Old Mill ~ Kind of Blue Old Mill ~ Lambic Old Mill ~ Marlin Spike Old Mill ~ Mint Juliep Old Mill ~ Moulin Rouge Old Mill ~ Nocturne Old Mill ~ Perfecto Old Mill ~ Pure Virginia Toast Old Mill ~ Sasparilla Old Mill ~ Spotted Dick Old Mill ~ Suzette Old Mill ~ Winter Solstice Samuel Gawith ~ Almond Samuel Gawith ~ Aniseed Samuel Gawith ~ Apple Samuel Gawith ~ Auld Sannick Samuel Gawith ~ Banana Samuel Gawith ~ Blue Crest Samuel Gawith ~ Blue Crest Scented Samuel Gawith ~ Bouquet Samuel Gawith ~ Bucks Fizz Samuel Gawith ~ Carnation Samuel Gawith ~ CCC Samuel Gawith ~ Celtic Talisman Samuel Gawith ~ Cherry Samuel Gawith ~ Cob Gold Samuel Gawith ~ Cola Samuel Gawith ~ Cuckoo Samuel Gawith ~ Dr Vereys Samuel Gawith ~ Dr Vereys Full Samuel Gawith ~ Hazlenut Samuel Gawith ~ Honey Samuel Gawith ~ Irish D Samuel Gawith ~ Ginger Samuel Gawith ~ Grousemoor Samuel Gawith ~ Guarana Samuel Gawith ~ Jasmin Samuel Gawith ~ Jockey Club Samuel Gawith ~ KB Plain Samuel Gawith ~ KB Scented Samuel Gawith ~ KB Special Samuel Gawith ~ Lavender Dark Samuel Gawith ~ Lavender Gold Samuel Gawith ~ London Brown Samuel Gawith ~ Mandarin Samuel Gawith ~ Mellowmint Samuel Gawith ~ Mentholene Samuel Gawith ~ Otterhound Samuel Gawith ~ Peach Samuel Gawith ~ Peppermint Dark Samuel Gawith ~ Peppermint Gold Samuel Gawith ~ Pine Menthol Samuel Gawith ~ Plum Samuel Gawith ~ Princes Samuel Gawith ~ Princes Gold Samuel Gawith ~ Red Crest Samuel Gawith ~ Red Crest Scented Samuel Gawith ~ Richt Kind Samuel Gawith ~ Sam’s Own Samuel Gawith ~ Scotch Black Samuel Gawith ~ SG Extra Menthol Samuel Gawith ~ Silky Dark Samuel Gawith ~ SP No.1 Samuel Gawith ~ SP No1 High Mill Samuel Gawith ~ Spearmint Gold Samuel Gawith ~ Special M Samuel Gawith ~ Strawberry Samuel Gawith ~ Toffee Samuel Gawith ~ Wallflower Samuel Gawith ~ Wild Duck Samuel Gawith ~ X Blend Samuel Gawith ~ Yellow Crest Samuel Gawith ~ Yellow Crest Scented Samuel Gawith ~ Zip Camphorated Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Apple Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Apple and Blackberry Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Blueberry Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Brandy Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Brunswick Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Bubble Gum Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Burgundy Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Butterscotch Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Carnation Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Chilli Chocolate Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Chocolate Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Chocolate Mint Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Chocolate Orange Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Cinnamon Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Clove Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Coconut Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Coffee Cream UWilsons of Sharrow ~ Cola Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Confusion Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Cool Guarana Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Country Mint Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Extra Crumbs of Comfort Wilsons of Sharrow ~ French Carrotte Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Ginger Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Irish Coffee Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Irish HDT 20 Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Jasmine Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Kendal Brown Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Lavender Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Morlaix Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Natural Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Peach Melba Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Peppermint Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Prime Minister Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Rosemary Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Royal George Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Rum and Blackberry Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Rum and Raisin Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Sherry Wilsons of Sharrow ~ SM 500 Wilsons of Sharrow ~ SM Brown Wilsons of Sharrow ~ SP Silver Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Spearmint Plus Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Strasbourg Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Strawberry Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Summer Berries Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Thyme and Lemon Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Vanilla Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Violet Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Whisky Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Whisky and Honey Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Winter Warmer Wilsons of Sharrow ~ Ylang Ylang Yet to be confirmed (under discussion) Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Mature Crumbled Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Particular Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Keen Scented Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Jocks Choice Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Convent Rose Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Rumba Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Citrus Delight Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Emerald Mocha Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ SP Best Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Princes Dark Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Kendal Brown Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Top Mill Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Cafe Royal Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ King George Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Convent Golden Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Special Menthol Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Sandalwood Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Strawberry Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Cinnamon Mullins and Westley/Convent ~ Attar of Roses

What a &$@%ing nightmare! Will Brexit reverse any of those for UK manufacturers?

Yes, unfortunately I cannot see any government ever relaxing legislation on any tobacco product. It can only ever get worse, not better. If pipe tobacco ceases to be available in a few years, so be it. I don’t smoke enough to be overly concerned. I just hope my decade long buffer stock of snuff keeps as well in glass as everyone professes, as it will need to survive for ten years PLUS however long the UK snuffs keeps being available.

Whoever clicked the like button for that list above should reconsider that action and retract it. Or maybe it’s one of our members here that works for the EU government that likes the list!?

Well, perhaps it’ll inject some life into the American snuff market.  And… Indian snuff?

That list is very useful though, nothing to be happy about, but still useful…

@Roderick Is expanding operations to America out of the question for Toque?

With the last few rounds of regulations over there, I can’t see that being any easier. Not to mention every state having their own different set of rules.

Here’s an off-kilter and vague suggestion, but UNESCO and to some extent the EU are keen on preserving ‘cultural heritage’. Given snuff’s predominantly historical associations now and deep roots in European and British culture, this might be an angle worth looking at: even if other forms of tobacco are regulated, snuff should be preserved as a part of a 400-year tradition, not persecuted!

Mind you, it would take a lawyer or two, and some money …

Interesting thought, but the government’s with FAR more resources, would argue that they aren’t threatening snuff, merely regulating it’s production and sale for health concerns (verification that no unsuitable ingredients are used for example). I think Wilson’s (for example) might have a case to get the old waterwheel mill protected as a historical monument/museum, but I can’t see UNESCO or National Heritage or any similar organisation taking steps to ensure viability of business activities or product lines.

Is that list confirmed as lines which are ending, or are ranges in there which are going to be renamed?

@Effy They are the products which have been discontinued.

Then it really is sad reading ;(

Roderick, do you think Jaap would share his recapys with you?