I know this may seem ridiculous, but I was curious what snuff might be the most “natural.” I’m not talking about natural scent, but natural as far as processing. Other than my snuff addiction, I try to lead a healthy lifestyle full of exercise and quality foods. Snuff is my guilty indulgence. Unlike foods, I just have no way of knowing what is actually in my snuff. Is there any information on what snuffs might be the most natural with the least number of “chemicals?” I know Toque says that they use natural flavors, but what else is in snuff? I hope nobody takes offense to this post, but I’m just curious.

schmalzlers.

schmalzlers.

I love my Schmalzers but can you expand on that. How are Schmalzers different than other snuffs?

schmalzlers.

I love my Schmalzers but can you expand on that. How are Schmalzers different than other snuffs?

They are being made in quite different way than other snuffs. You can check it out on the net, just google it. For what I remember - brasil tobacco fermentate with fruits for a few months, then dried, minced, screened and humidified with parafine. Bernard claims that their schmalzlers are “almost completely handmade”.

@fbones24 The healthiest snuff you could have, from what I understand, would be to grow your own organic crop, air/sun dry it, and grind that. You won’t get the same amount of nicotine per pinch as you are not using any sodium carbonate, but you’d just have to take more pinches. Not such a bad thing.

Are Schmalzers really fermented with “real fruit?” I find that hard to believe as the flavors are so strong. I just can’t come to grips with the fact that these are naturally flavored. I tried finding something on the process, but could not.

@fbones24 The healthiest snuff you could have, from what I understand, would be to grow your own organic crop, air/sun dry it, and grind that. You won’t get the same amount of nicotine per pinch as you are not using any sodium carbonate, but you’d just have to take more pinches. Not such a bad thing.

It’s always recommended you use a preservative to prevent mold and fungi growth, temperature and humidity are great forces to tobacco. Isolation of Thermophilic Fungi From Snuff - PMC Always research and do the math before you blow your nose off. http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/7279/homemade-snuff#latest Know the no’s of the nose, follow the pro’s and don’t drink water from a garden hose. =))

They are being made in quite different way than other snuffs. You can check it out on the net, just google it. For what I remember - brasil tobacco fermentate with fruits for a few months, then dried, minced, screened and humidified with parafine. Bernard claims that their schmalzlers are “almost completely handmade”.

So in your opinion the most healthy and natural snuff is one that is fermented with rotting fruit and coated in paraffin wax? I would be willing to bet something like Toque Natural or Natural Toast would be fairly unadulterated as Roderick does not use alkaline agents (sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate) in his snuffs.

the wonderful thing about fruit is; =juice=hooch=vinager=acids, http://www.hawkinswatts.com/documents/Natural%20Acids%20of%20Fruits%20and%20Vegetables.pdf

They are being made in quite different way than other snuffs. You can check it out on the net, just google it. For what I remember - brasil tobacco fermentate with fruits for a few months, then dried, minced, screened and humidified with parafine. Bernard claims that their schmalzlers are “almost completely handmade”.

So in your opinion the most healthy and natural snuff is one that is fermented with rotting fruit and coated in paraffin wax? I would be willing to bet something like Toque Natural or Natural Toast would be fairly unadulterated as Roderick does not use alkaline agents (sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate) in his snuffs.

I beg to differ, - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/258184/#Comment\\_258184

They are being made in quite different way than other snuffs. You can check it out on the net, just google it. For what I remember - brasil tobacco fermentate with fruits for a few months, then dried, minced, screened and humidified with parafine. Bernard claims that their schmalzlers are “almost completely handmade”.

So in your opinion the most healthy and natural snuff is one that is fermented with rotting fruit and coated in paraffin wax? I would be willing to bet something like Toque Natural or Natural Toast would be fairly unadulterated as Roderick does not use alkaline agents (sodium chloride, sodium bicarbonate) in his snuffs.

I beg to differ, - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/258184/#Comment\\_258184

I had seen that post, but could not find it to respond. Thank you. I consider salts natural though.

I beg to differ, - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/258184/#Comment\\_258184

I don’t understand what you mean @noworry… Are you saying that because his tobacco isn’t “organic” that I am wrong? Even if that is the case, I have yet to hear of a snuff manufacturer that uses organic tobacco. That being equal, Toque would still be about as close to being “natural” as you can get. You must have missed this quote from Roderick further down that thread: “I’d be interested to hear how you get on with Toque. As you probably are aware our snuff is 100% natural with 100% natural flavours and no additives. How we raise and lower nicotine levels are by removing stalk and stem from the grind. The lower the stems the higher the nicotine level.” - See more at: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/258184/#Comment\\_258184 Edit: I now see where Roderick says he considers salt and baking soda “natural ingredients.” I never saw that post in the past and was always under the impression, from the above quote, that the stem content was the variable he changed to control nicotine delivery. Thanks for clearing that up.

So in your opinion the most healthy and natural snuff is one that is fermented with rotting fruit and coated in paraffin wax?

I must have mistaken something, so I’m very sorry. This is from Bernard’s site: “The Schmalzler is a mix of Brasil tobacco and special tobacco made of the so-called mangotes. Mangotes are tobacco leaves weaved into thick ropes in Brasil. They come freshly from the field, get weaved and pressed with special sauces. In the end they are sewed into fresh bull skin. These packages weigh up to 80 kilos. Now they are imported to Germany, where they age in a long process. Whenever they are needed, the skins are cut up, the ropes cut into pieces and mixed with the fermented Brasil tobacco. The Schmalzler is factored double tracked. One half is chunky, the other one is coarse grit. Both halves get double-fermented with different sauces separately. The sauces are made of fruit and sugar beet syrup. After the mix with the sauces, there comes a double natural fermentation in huge wooden barrels. This high-quality fermentation is only possible if the time is controlled well, because the tobacco gets very warm almost hot. Barrels that keep 6000 kilos are the guarantee for an optimal mixture of the not finished Schmalzler.” Also, making a schmalzler in such a way has about 300 years history.

^^^^ Found a picture of these mangotes. Looks quite nasty with that ‘fresh’ animal skin around it.

^^ That is the nature.

im sorry, is the bull skin really necessary… eurgh. well, schmalzler is definitely not my thing… ive refrained from taking cheese and bacon till i discover its ingredients. im sure i asked before, just had no reply.

kanna

@Firestarter0 I don’t believe there is any actual cheese or bacon in the snuff. I think it was just kept in the proximity of it to absorb the scents, but I can’t speak for Roderick of course. Be warned though, if you do decide to try it, its really rank, and only someone who really enjoys rank cheese would enjoy it.

@Firestarter0 If your gag reflex is easily activated you should be careful with the cheese and bacon…just sayin’

i have smelled it, and it smells fine. its not my gag reflex, i can handle disgusting, believe me. i can out-gross any of my friends (students…). its the technically unnecessary use of ‘fresh bull skin’ that clashes with me being vegetarian.

Cheese and Bacon is one of my favorite snuffs. Roderick uses real blue cheese and bacon to scent the snuff, and it’s wonderful… That said, even if cheese and bacon isn’t your thing, Toques are low in TSNAs and are relatively low risk, as are all snuffs

Cheese and Bacon is one of my favorite snuffs. Roderick uses real blue cheese and bacon to scent the snuff, and it’s wonderful… That said, even if cheese and bacon isn’t your thing, Toques are low in TSNAs and are relatively low risk, as are all snuffs

well ill be steering well clear of using the c&b i had acquired then. shame really, smells ok. im just not going to knowingly consume a meat product. its one of those that has a hazy line for some i reckon, as it may not contain any actual traces, but if the line is hazy, ill avoid it.

If we were meant to be vegetarians we would be able to digest cellulose.

we are omnivores and if your diet works for you awesome. This is not the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of a persons diet (now an off topic what’s your diet thread would how ever be a good place for that). Especially when the person is talking about their diet in a way that isn’t disrespectful to any other persons diet and when it’s highly relevant to the discussion on hand. Just saying that because I see the danger of this spiraling into a place it doesn’t need to go. And also pointing out that if we want to discuss such things off topic is a great place to do it.

Sorry but I’ve had far too many vegetarians try to guilt trip me about eating meat that I guess its made me kinda bitter against them, no offense intended.

do what you wish, i just wish it was better advertised as to the content and production of things. i dont see the need to guilt trip, put down someone else’s choice or the like.

I think the thing to keep in mind with C&B is that it is scented with natural flavors and not with artificial lab-created cheese and bacon scents. I have never detected actual pieces of cheese or bacon in my tins and can imagine that adding those ingredients directly would require refrigeration and an expiration date on the can as well as add a risk of foodborne illness.

always try to remember that every group has jerks. Don’t let the jerks ruin whole groups for you. Well not Snuffhouse but we are very special.

Cheese and Bacon is one of my favorite snuffs. Roderick uses real blue cheese and bacon to scent the snuff, and it’s wonderful… That said, even if cheese and bacon isn’t your thing, Toques are low in TSNAs and are relatively low risk, as are all snuffs

As far as TSNA’s go, not all snuffs are low risk. I believe there are some resources on the higher levels of TSNA’s in American dry snuffs such as Dental Sweet which if I remember correctly has a whopping 40ppm compared to Toque snuff and snus which is in the single digits. rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/2012/10/more-evidence-that-smokeless-tobacco.html

@Zaratzu makes sense, nasal snuff tends to be fine, creating a larger surface exposed to oxidation.  it’s like how matcha green tea powder will oxidize rapidly but whole leaf green tea will last a good long time.  or even the way ground beef tends to be more prone to decomposition vs a large roast.  all about surface area exposed to the elements, and fine powders represent a plethora of surface area.  

my own guess would be you’d want a large grind, dry, sun-cured, unscented because these essential oils can have unpredictable health effects, and the tobacco variety would have to be researched, in some studies I’ve looked at Indian snuffs were considered the lowest in TSNAs, the reasoning being that in India they don’t use chemical fertilizers as often, which is a major source of nitrates, but in other places I’ve read the opposite that Indian tobacco is the least healthy.  

I’ve seen Toque reference having low TSNAs but it would be interesting to hear some more on this, does this apply to the entire product line or just certain ones for instance, is the tobacco specifically sourced for low TSNAs, or how else is it explained to be so much lower than the others which are all double digits for those who have numbers published for them?

With so many e-cigarette users being scared off and looking for alternatives, it seems like a real missed opportunity to not promote the health aspects a little more aggressively, while falling within government guidelines, like clearly you can’t promote it as a health product, but producers could follow the approach of snus producers.  This forum seems to discourage discussions around health, a lot of the old timers seem to have this attitude of “hey it’s fun I love it and life is short, let’s not concern ourselves with health, be quiet and let us enjoy our vice, ignorance is bliss.”  Some of us actually care about our health, this body is our vehicle to navigate the world and experiences, for those who don’t care about your body I wonder if you’d be as ready to toss adulterated gasoline into your brand new car regularly, probably not, and that’s with a vehicle that can be replaced, where a body can not.

Well put experts!

Organically-grown, sun-dried or air-dried leaf (I’ve made snuff and chew with organic Burley but was disappointed by the flavor and scent). Alkalized with food-grade (better yet, medical grade) substances (or not alkalized at all). Besides the TSNA’s, the soil the tobacco leaf is grown in can be a consideration. A lot of tobacco fields have been around for some time. Back in the day, nasty chemicals (including arsenic) were used as pesticides and herbicides. Some of them (like arsenic) are very resistant to degrading. 

I wouldn’t be too concerned about snuff affecting health, though. If you’re constantly swallowing back drip, that’s one thing, but most of the snuff works its way out. Mainly it’s just the nicotine being absorbed. If you have seriously high blood pressure or a disposition to cardiovascular disease, nicotine is probably not a good idea, though.

Good points, @expers, all spot-on. General attitude towards health is changing, though, and not a single reasonable discussion, thread or post in regards to health/product safety was locked, deleted or discouraged as of late in this forum.

@SammyD13 That’s true about the soil, although I do accept that just living on this planet will involve taking in a fair share of arsenic, polonium, uranium, mercury, etc, I think it’s impossible to try to avoid any and all contaminants.  TSNAs are a concern to me however.  Snuff popularity seems to have waned to such an extent before modern scientific methods or statistical analysis were available to quantify effects that I think it’s far from conclusive what health effects might pertain there, the consensus that ‘there’s been no reported case of cancer attributable to snuff use’ doesn’t feel significant to me, given the lack of research or large-scale population available for study.  

Safer than smoking?  Almost definitely and with perfect technique it could possibly be the safest form of using tobacco.  I find throat drip unavoidable personally, unless I blow my nose within 2 minutes of snuffing, and the drier snuffs can periodically make their way into my throat (possibly lungs) if my nasal cavity is especially dry at the time and provides no 'moist area for the snuff to cling to.  

I think nicotine itself is mostly benign, and I think the whole alkaloid package of tobacco is therapeutically useful and a very balanced effect in contrast to the sharp edgy feeling that isolated nicotine in gum or ejuice causes.

I have many friends who vape, many are transitioning to snus because of the citeable low tsnas and a sense of it being relatively safe.  Haven’t succeeded in introducing any of them to snuff, they go online and research it a bit, come across threads with people chastising those who bring up health concerns, and figure it’s a weird habit and possibly damaging, doesn’t help that sniffing a powder into the nose already has negative associations in north american culture.  While the large variety of scents is great, I’d put far more stock in some hard scientific data listing clearly what’s in the product I’m putting into my body, at the end of the day I’m using it as medicine for its active effects, if I really care about nice scents I can buy incense or get an essential oil diffuser.  This is why I’d love to see a 6 photo plain sun cured, using the same tobacco base as in the Super Kailash, remove the paraffin oil, remove the herbals, leave it plain, send it to a lab and get some numbers for TSNAs, and I know I’d be buying it if the numbers came back low as I expect, and if it smells ‘boring’ all the better, medicine isn’t supposed to taste good, that just leads to using more than you need.

@expers, some numbers here: https://www.bat-science.com/groupms/sites/BAT\\_B9JBW3.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO7BMF66/$FILE/[1]%20SRNT%20madrid%20snus%20poster%20final.pdf?openelement

Somewhat oudated, but still interesting.

(if the document doesn’t open, go to https://www.bat-science.com and run a search in their Library for “Constituent comparison in smokeless tobacco products used in Europe”)

Well I have noticed the knee jerk reaction some tobacco users have when someone brings up concerns with tobacco consumption; likely a result of nanny state overreach. I can see both sides of the coin or at least try to and think it is beneficial to all to be able to have an open conversation about the subject without unnecessarily politicalizing it in an overly personal way.

@volunge oh nice thank you, hadnt’ seen that.  I imagine in that list “Torque” refers to “Toque” ? haha.  unfortunate that they don’t list more of the British snuff manufacturers like Wilsons.  Torque seems ultra high in “B(a)P ppb (DWB)” whatever that is…

@expers https://web.archive.org/web/20091014170910/http://www.smokeless.org.nz/nasalsnuff\\_analyses.pdf

Interestingly, only coarse grind nasal snuff is allowed in Iceland. Tobacco Law defines coarse grind as a grind with more than half of the particles being at least of 0.5 mm in diameter.

Grow your own tobacco, or buy leaf tobacco from Leaf Only online. It’s very easy to make and there are several recipes for basic snuff here on the site. I grew my own rustica here in northern Colorado for a few years, however my home made snuff wasn’t very good. Then, a guy I worked for gave me a bundle of damaged Cuban Covina cigars. I made some excellent surf. Natural and satisfying.

Auto fill type correction: Cohiba cigar, not Covina