Here’s the latest update on the PACT Act, which seems to be good news, but who knows anymore. I leave it to greater minds than me to figure out. At any rate, it’s currently stalled. Courtesy of NorSnuser at snuson.com: PACT showed up today on the current House floor proceedings. To be read from bottom to top in time order. I quote: "10:57 A.M. - Considered as unfinished business. 10:56 A.M. - UNFINISHED BUSINESS - The Chair announced that the unfinished business was the question of adoption of motions to suspend the rules which were considered earlier and on which further proceedings were postponed. S. 1147: to prevent tobacco smuggling, to ensure the collection of all tobacco taxes, and for other purposes 10:55 A.M. - At the conclusion of debate, the Yeas and Nays were demanded and ordered. Pursuant to the provisions of clause 8, rule XX, the Chair announced that further proceedings on the motion would be postponed. 10:41 A.M. - DEBATE - The House proceeded with forty minutes of debate on S. 1147. Considered under suspension of the rules. Mr. Cohen moved to suspend the rules and pass the bill." It is interesting that the suspension of rules failed and PACT is now unfinished business. It is also interesting that they even tried a suspension of rules on this particular bill as this procedure is really only used on non-controversial bills. Apparently PACT is more controversial than Cohen expected and doesn’t have unanimous bipartisan support even though it moved to the House quickly. Here is a link to more information on suspension of rules: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension\_of\_the\_rules\_in\_the\_United\_States\_Congress[/url] The way I understand clause 8 rule XX is that it is a way for the Speaker to delay and cluster certain votes. I have no idea when the House will look at PACT again, but for now it is unfinished business.
How many threads do we need on 1 issue?
17
Good point. Please use this as the running PACT discussion, I will close any others.
PACT is on its way to Obama. The House passed it, 387 - 25. Full details here: [url]http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/house/2/124[/url] The so-called Coalition to Stop Contraband Tobacco is gleeful: [quote][color=#0099FF]Coalition to Stop Contraband Tobacco Applauds House for Passage of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 For Immediate Release: March 17, 2010 Contact Name: Hillary Maxwell Contact Email: media@coalitiontostopcontrabandtobacco.com WASHINGTON – The Coalition to Stop Contraband Tobacco today praised the U.S. House of Representatives for passing S. 1147, the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act of 2009. Sponsored in the House by Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-NY), this legislation will help combat online cigarette sales that have robbed hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues from the states and that undermine state laws that prevent youth access to tobacco products. The PACT Act will now go to President Obama’s desk for his signature. “In passing the PACT Act, Congress has made a definitive statement about its commitment to help eliminate underage access to tobacco on the Internet, curtail associated illegal activities and capture lost state excise tax revenues,” said Scott Ramminger, AWMA president and CEO and coalition spokesperson. “We applaud the House of Representatives for its action today and thank Congressman Weiner for his leadership in combating contraband tobacco sales.” A broad coalition of more than 180 groups, individuals and other stakeholders worked with House and Senate leaders through the years to pass the PACT Act. The PACT Act closes gaps in current federal laws regulating Internet and other remote sales of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products. “This bill is a win for law enforcement, retailers, state tax advocates and public health groups,” continued Ramminger. “We hope that President Obama will act swiftly to sign this common sense legislation into law so that we can put an end to the illegal sale of tobacco products,” concluded Ramminger. The Coalition to Stop Contraband Tobacco is a group of individuals, associations, businesses and other organizations that share the goal of enacting legislation that will eliminate underage access to tobacco on the Internet, curtail associated illegal activities and capture lost state excise tax revenues. [url]http://www.coalitiontostopcontrabandtobacco.com/releases/coalition-stop-contraband-tobacco-applauds-house-passage-prevent-all-cigarette-trafficking-[/url] [/color][/quote]
So, they passed the toothless version of the bill with no modifications, then? I suppose that is somewhat good news.
It still has to be signed by the president in order for PACT to become law. Of course I don’t see why he’d refuse to sign it. If Obama does sign it into law, it becomes effective 90 days after he signs. After that, who knows what will happen. I hope that Nicotine Rush and Mr. Snuff are able to survive. My condolences to them.
Mine as well. I know it’s probably none of our business, but I would kind of like to know if Mr. Snuff and Nicotine Rush have spoken to lawyers or anyone reguarding this matter, and if they have some sort of plan in place, or if they’re just going to quietly close their doors. I hope it doesn’t come to that, though. I suppose if worst comes to worse, I’ll just use up what I have and see if I can find a tobacco shop around here that sells snuff, and use whatever they have, or pick the cigs back up, or maby a pipe. I dunno yet. Well, here’s best wishes that all of this works itself out to our favour!
MrSnuff also does wholesale. Everyone should find their local tobacco store and try to hook them up with MrSnuff to be their wholesaler/distributor for snuff. in this way everyone wins: MrSnuff stays in business and prospers, your local business is helped by having a wider selection for you and others, and we customers get to safely and legally get our products and help our respective state businesses. Seriously. Here’s one way to do it that I have discovered so far: 1. Go to MrSnuff’s site, log in, go to Recommend a Store, add your local physical tobacco store. You should get an automated email from another part of MrSnuff that that thanks you and tells you they will contact the store you have just added. 2. Email MrSnuff (Dave) directly just to be sure and let him know you did this and would like them to actually contact the store. 3. Take in a small cardboard box with you that has a variety of the sorts of snuffs MrSnuff sells but the tobacco store you’re at so far does not (take a 25g toque, a can of F&T, one of each of the american scotches, Swisher, Conwood/whatever, US SMokeless, take a couple Dholakias, a Grunt, etc etc) Go to that local physical tobacco store (near the end of a busines day might be best) be sure to get the owner to do this and talk to him/her. and explain what you are doing and that you’ve added them to a snuff selling website (free advertising for them) and that you’d really like the store to do business with Mr Snuff. Set all the snuffs types you have brought on the counter and let the owner see them, open them, smell them etc if he wants, offer to let him write the brand names down (he might, he might not). Be honest and explain why you want him to do this, you’re trying to be law abiding and you have done business with MrSnuff as an online retailer so you can speak to how good he is, but now its time to have a local retailer and MrSnuff does wholessale distribution, explain how this is good for MrSnuff, the store, and you. Tell him you got what you are showing the store owner from MrSnuff’s retailer site, but you’d like to be abel to get it lcoally at his (store owner’s site) in this way. Be sure to tell the store owner that this you have brought in is only a sample of what you own (you have a lot more at home, but only say that if you really do). Tell them you’d prefer to buy in bulk if that in fact be the case) but will buy smaller, etc. Point out why this is good for everyone, everyone wins (MrSnuff, the store, and you the ready-made customer they’ll know they’ll have if they do). 3a. If you know of any other snuffers in your area, tell the shop owner this too. Thank him graciously for even considering it, buy something while there if you can (its a tobacco store after all, maybe buy a pouch of NAS Perique you can take home and grind), and go home. 4. Ask any fellow snuffers you know to actually please go in that same store and at least ask for the snuff products or maybe just speak up and verbalize your collected interest in having a retailer, this retailer, this store to do this 5. Wait for MrSnuff and the store to connect, hope the shop owner to get a whoelsale catalog from MrSnuff, 6. wait and hope some more. This is not just me barking out my butt – I am doing exactly this and I am actually on step 6 right now.
At least Alan Greyson didn’t vote on the damn thing. The DINO-RINO-I have no idea what I am-Suzanne Kosmos voted yes, as did just about all the other FL congressmen.
This is not the end of the world (the beginning of the end- possibly- but not the end as of yet). We will still be able to buy snuff on line. UPS has only said it will not transport cigarettes (not all tobacco). If you live in a state with high taxes you are screwed. For the rest, it seems that we will be making fewer small orders and more once or twice a year bulk orders (due to extra shipping cost- depending on just how much that turns out to be). I think the big thing will be for each online shop to carry as much variety as they can, since one stop shopping will be more of a necessity. Both Tom and David already do a pretty good job of this so there is not much for them to do (a little but not much). On average I look for my snuff and snus bill to increase some 20% over last year. A pain but doable. Regardless we will be able to get snuff (and for most of us without too much extra hassle). However, we will just have to wait and see.
I think you are right, Snifs. This will be a nuisance but not the end of our hobby. We shall find a workaround.
After reading more, it seems this is all about the US government’s war with the Seneca Indian Nation, and we are in the crossfires.
tom502 is totally right. The snuf and the snus communities are collateral damage in an unjust war in the first place.
As I understand this, We will still be able to order snuff online, however, we will have to pay taxes on it and it will not be shipped via USPS. It seems to be a logistics, licensing, and paperwork nightmare for the retailers. Anybody know where this new tax money will be appropriated? Will it go to cancer research or private jets? I don’t mind paying taxes, but, i do mind being taxed without knowing what happens to it. Even with a price increase due to new taxes, my snuff habit/hobby will still be significantly cheaper than my previous smoking habit. As long as I can acquire my vice, I’ll be ok, though it is an infringement on my personal civil liberties. SNUFF ON!
I think it’s only sales taxes based on whatever state you order from.
Texas tobacco taxes on smokeless tobacco are supposedly 40% of the manufactering cost. I just spoke with a wholesaler in Austin who told me that that amounts to either $1.04 or $1.40 per ounce for nasal snuff (we didn’t have a great phone connection, but I think it was the lower amount), and that–at least for Texas residents–WoS, F&T, McChrystals, and Gawith Hogarth would be readily available from him and his affiliate shops for anyone in Texas who was willing to pay the tax, along with state sales tax. Their retail prices are the same as the online retailers (actually they ARE online retailers at present, but their site is geared toward pipe smokers). We then bitched about Dallas tobacco shops, since his main business is Gawith Pipe tobacco, and there is one tobacco baron in Dallas who has geared his chain of stores mainly toward the $20 cigar crowd, to the detriment of Pipe Smokers, the RYO/MYO community, and nasal snuff users, which he says are the smallest of the lot. The taxes are just state tax revenues, and go to finance some useful programs and some extremely not so useful programs. I would prefer to continue to deal with Mr. Snuff and Nicotinerush, however, and based on what this person said, Texas is not a difficult a state to do business with. States like New York, Oregon and California are a different story, supposedly. It still remains to be seen whether our favorite domestic sources will want to incur the costs of compliance with the different laws of each state.
seems to me there are a whole lot of exemptions. this bill seems to be compose mostly of fluff. the USPS can deliver if the mailer and recipient fall under certain criteria. Sec. 3, Subsection 1716E, part B, subpart 4, I don’t know, Im not a legislator, thank god, but it seems to me they are simply trying to make money with this and nothing else.
why doesn’t it seem anyone is noticing or taking up on my idea? If you’re really concerned for MrSnuff et al … and wouldn’t you like to have a physical store near you that can provide? I mean if we can talk about packaging snuff by wrapping it in big tobacco leaves (or whatever!) so counts as a cigar… why not my idea? Afterall its a pretty realistic response that would benefit and give an extra safeguard to the oneine shops we already know and love so we can be assured they do stay in business (and indirectly still give them your business) and help a business that’s local to you. It really wasn’t that big of a deal to take a small cardboard box (one that was actually what a smaller online order came in) and go down ther and do this? Am I the only one here ‘crazy’ enough to not really care if I take a little risk of looking a little foolish or having a store owner thinking I’m nuts or whatever (and then finding this to be actually pretty easy and yes, I’ll admit I think some luck was involved) seems to be on its way to working? The worst you’ll do is annoy the store owner who could tell you he’s not interested, get an answer of ‘no’ – but you can guarentee the answer is ‘no’ if you never even ask! I don’t know… some of you married men or ones with girlfriends, if its a male shopkeep then send the ladies in to do the talking then (I’m nothing to look at really but still, maybe I had just a little bit of the female factor or the "I couldn’t scare a flea off a dog’ very non-threatening factor I have was involved… you know, the same ones that lets me sometimes get away with occasionally walking up to a scary looking ‘gansta’ looking guy that ‘my gut’ says this will be okay to do with and stunning them by acting like I don’t notice he’s as scary as he is, etc asking directions or just saying hello, etc and getting a momentary ‘doubletake’ before a relieved exhale and telling me what I’m asking etc, maybe its like that I don’t know) but one way or another, try it!
@LHB: Here is an expanded chart showing current and future smokeless tobacco tax rates for the state of Texas: [url]http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/cig\_tob/tob\_rates\_other.html[/url] As explained here, [url]http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/cig\_tob/faqcig.html[/url], an individual can of snuff weighing 1.2 ounces or less is currently taxed at $1.32. This tax will be incrementally increased to $1.46 up to September 2013. The main thing to keep in mind is that, tax-wise, there is no distinction between one gram and 1.2 ounces. You’re throwing money out the window if you buy tiny quantities of snuff. One gram (like a Toque bullet) and a 1.2 ounce tin (such as a 1.15 ounce container of W.E. Garrett) are both taxed at $1.32. In other words, buying snuff in quantities of less than 34 grams is not cost effective (1.2 ounces = 34.019 grams). If you buy three 10g tins, a $1.32 tax is levied on each individual tin. If you buy instead a single 34g container, you are taxed $1.32 only once. For that matter, if you bought 34 1g Toque bullets, your combined tax bill will be a whopping $44.88. I looked this up and confirmed my suspicion that 1.2 ounces is the average weight of a can of moist snuff. The compilers of the tax table apparently didn’t imagine (or care) that there are other forms of smokeless tobacco that are commonly sold in quantities much smaller than 34g per unit.