Yeah so I found a really good first edition copy on Amazon for 5 bucks so I had to get it. The book came yesterday and I’m already finished with it. Its a pretty quick read but very interesting. Seeing how the book was published in 1974 and knowing the ill fated history of the shop at 34 Haymarket it saddens me to know that the UK didn’t protect such a historic landmark from being taken over by a crummy tourist shop. Reading about all the different snuffs that F&T use to carry I wish Wilsons would re create some if their older blends… Aww now I’m depressed.

Awhile ago wilsons was talking about resurecting some of the old blends. I can only hope it happens as I totaly agree.

We can commision Wilsons to make a blend. We’d probably have to front some of the money, though.

@ Xander If we could commission Wilsons, could we set up a thread regarding such and see what old blends people would be most interested in investing in?

Best to contact Wilson’s first, and see what they say. Surely they could give minimum numbers of people required, or the minimum amount of snuff they would need to make. After that, we coud vote on a flavor.

So the big question is who on this forum could/can/ or has the ability to talk too someone at Wilsons? Xander would you be up for it? I would love to jump on board to help with the investment and so called rallying of the troops in support of a new F&T blend; of course I’m in the States so my direct connection to the old empire is limited but as far as this forum goes I’m game.

No, I can’t do it. Someone who lives closer would be a better choice.

All right calling all snuffhouse members close to Wilson’s help us out ha… But seriously Xander should we ask Alex if there is anything he could do or help to assist us in this venture?

His voice would have more weight, I would think

shall I just email him or what?

I think Afterburner’s suggestion would be the most feasible. If Dave (Mr. Snuff) has been reading the thread, he might also be able to convince WOS.

I would think it would be likely if Roderick would try to buy the recipes and make them.

Or maybe Roderick can buy WoS and then all the recipes will be his. Ermtony, Debbie and Snuffster also lives nearby and are people who can talk the talk.

Well being relatively new to the site (about a year) could I get some assistance from some of you senior members? It seems that everyone or at least some would really like to see WoS produce another F&T snuff. I lack the connections some of you have to these members that have the “connections” and would really appreciate any help in moving this idea along. Help me and everyone who loves F&T snuffs get another one back in production. 2010 is their 290th Birthday!

@giaach: If you’re really keen, why not just email them yourself ? There’s a contact form on their website.

Just sent this to WoS, let’s see what happens… To: Whom It May Concern, I must first say that having only started using snuff in the past 2 years I have quickly become quite the Wilson’s fan, enjoying many of your wonderful blends. Aside from that, a discussion has recently surfaced on the snuff-taker forum known as Snuffhouse.org regarding the 290th Anniversary of Fribourg & Treyer Snuffs. It became apparent that many people would love to see a new blend re-introduced. While no specific blend has been discussed, we wanted to first see if this could be done. The members of Snuffhouse.org and I understand that snuff making is indeed a business and the proposition of producing another snuff can be costly. That being the case, we as members of an ever growing community ask you if there is a minimum number of people required, or a minimum amount of snuff needed to make a small batch of one of Fribourg & Treyers now retired snuffs. If this could be done our community would be more than happy to invest in the production of this product and voice our opinion as to which retired blend could be brought back. On behalf of Snuffhouse.org and the snuff taking community I thank you in advance for your continued service and production of one of the best ways to enjoy tobacco. Kindest Regards, William G.

Way to get the ball rolling glaach, count me in.

Depending upon the number of people throwing down/the amount per person, I would be interested. Of course, if this is possible, it raises the question of who’s holding on to the money? I doubt WoS would be terribly keen on seeing payment for one batch of snuff arrive piecemeal from 40 different people, so we would need someone that general consensus deems trustworthy. Just to block the possibility, however unlikely it may be, of myself being nominated, I will say now I’m out on that front. I’m bad enough with my own money, and holding on to other people’s money, especially in large amounts as would likely be necessary, makes me terribly uncomfortable. That being said, if this is at all possible, I would say that the money aspect of it would be dealt with by one of our vendors, such as Tom, Dave, or Roderick. Seeing as how many of us have dealt with them in the past, as well as the fact that they are active members of this community, I feel like one of them has the most vested interest in such a deal out of all of us. Due to this, and aside from being top notch in every regard for myself, I’d say one of them would be the least likely to take our money and run. Not trying to cast suspicion on anyone in particular, but it must be admitted that people do stupid things for money, even in lesser amounts than this is likely to require, and the bad job market/economy in some parts of the world doesn’t help this. So, what do you think guys? Roderick, Tom, or Dave, would any of you be interested in this role, should people agree upon one of you as being our treasurer in this venture, if it takes off? Let’s also create or find a list of their complete line of flavours, current and retired. Google gives me a copy of the catalogue from 1973, can anyone add anything not included there?

maybe just having enough people write them expressing intrest in F&T new snuffs would do the trick.

@Shikitohno In John Arlott’s book he lists a bunch of their snuffs but doesn’t give any solid descriptions. The best thing I have ever found was that exact same catalogue that you have also found.

not much description here either … heres a list anyway the guy from wilsons is a member here no doubt he pops in the odd time even in stealth mode … Brand Type Colour Texture Flavouring Asthoroth Medium Dark Brown Medium Jasmin Black Rappee Moist Black Coarse None *Bordeaux* Medium Brown Medium 3 Blends of Snuff Brown Rappee Medium Brown Medium None Bureau Medium Dark Brown Medium 6 Blends of Snuff Comore Medium Brown Medium Oriental Dieppe Medium to Moist Brown Medium Bergamot Etrenne Dry Brown Medium Carnation French Carotte Dry Light Brown Fine Sandalwood *High Dry Toast* Dry Light Brown Fine Toasted Jasmin Medium Brown Medium Jasmin *Dr. J R Justice* Moist Dark Brown Medium None *Kendal Brown* Medium Brown Medium None Lavande Dry Light Biscuit Fine English Lavender Light Dutch Dry Golden Brown Fine None *Macouba* Moist Dark Brown Medium Rose Masulipatam Moist Black Coarse None Menthol Medium Brown Medium Menthol Mitcham Mint Medium Light Brown Fine English Mint *Morlaix* Medium Brown Medium Secret *Morocco* Moist Dark Brown Medium Geranium *Old Paris* Moist Black Coarse Asian *Princes Special* Moist Dark Brown Medium None *Princes* Moist Black Coarse None S.P. Dry Light Brown Medium None S.P. Special Dry Light Brown Fine None *Santo Domingo* Moist Black Coarse Violet *Seville* Dry Light Biscuit Fine Orange Character Verbena Medium Brown Medium Lemon

It is of interest to note that some of the above descriptions don’t match the blend currently in production. The modern KB is very heavily scented and the modern Old Paris is far from black, for instance.

Good letter, giaach. I hope its clear that we are interested in a limited edition, or a one-off commission. The tobaccos on the list above may no longer be available for snuff production. Asthoroth, for instance, was a Latakia base, though some say it never existed outside of that written list.

“Let’s also create or find a list of their complete line of flavours, current and retired. Google gives me a copy of the catalogue from 1973, can anyone add anything not included there? “ Vast numbers of different snuffs were made during the long history of the establishment - many (if not most) made to order. The book by George Evans, published in 1921, lists some of them. Evans points out hat the recipes are now lost and only the names of the snuffs and their patrons now exist. Despite the longevity of the Haymarket name few of the snuffs on Fribourg &Treyer’s 1981 list were blended by them for more than a few decades. Likewise most of Wilson’s snuffs are modern, despite some quaint-sounding names.

“In John Arlott’s book he lists a bunch of their snuffs but doesn’t give any solid descriptions.” Wilsons of Sharrow can put almost any snuff they like into one of those tall tins, add an old label and, where authenticity is concerned, few people will be any the wiser. I took my first pinch of Bordeaux in 1959 and started regularly buying the Fribourg &Treyer range as an expensive treat from 1964 - the year I first visited the Haymarket shop. Some of the original snuff was still available from certain tobacconists as late as 1983. With one or two exceptions none of the current range of snuffs bear much resemblance to the originals, which is why I don‘t buy them.

@PhillipS Which snuffs in the current range resemble those of the past? And do you think that since Wilsons has the original F&T’s recipes they could in-fact produce a snuff that truly is from that bygone era?

"And do you think that since Wilsons has the original F&T’s recipes they could in-fact produce a snuff that truly is from that bygone era? " @giaach No, because sources vary. Quite apart from varied perfumery the tobaccos now come from Zimbabwe instead of Canada, the USA, Malawi, India and Cuba. Fermentation and other processes also affect natural aroma. Even methods and whereabouts of manufacture and storage affect flavour, and this can‘t be duplicated. Asking Wilson’s to manufacture one of the old blends under the Fribourg & Treyer name is a worthy enough enterprise. The result, however, would be a snuff probably bearing little resemblance to the original other than the name. Like the current range it would have to be judged purely on its own merits as a new snuff and not as a facsimile. (Personally I’d welcome Masulipatem - a coarse ground tobacco from India, which was a favourite of Queen Charlotte and originally sold by Fribourg & Treyer in claret bottles. This was the strongest flavour of any natural snuff I‘ve ever tried.) “Which snuffs in the current range resemble those of the past?” At least one snuff sold in the tall tins (HDT and probably Kendal Brown) came straight from Kendal. You can still buy these snuffs and, if you like, empty the contents into tall tins for complete effect. Bordeaux is very different from the original. However, you can recreate a more authentic version by adding small amounts of a piquant S.P to Wilson’s own Princes until the colour turns to dark brown. This is the well-known solution recommended by Professor Philips Griffiths. The oldest snuffs in the current range are Princes and Old Paris, both dating to the early 19th century. Even under Fribourg & Treyer the former must have changed as the original Princes was flavoured with attar of roses. Two hundred years ago this was an exceptionally costly fragrance that only the super-rich could afford. The version being sold prior to 1981 is fairly similar to today’s version, but was coarser and a little less perfumed. Old Paris is different, both in taste and texture. The original was almost black, coarse and used Cuban tobacco. Out of the Paris varieties only Santo Domingo is immediately recognizable as such and this despite not using the same tobaccos as the original. I must confess to not having tried all of the current range. Also I didn’t care for all of the pre-1981 range, and some memories are therefore based only on one-off purchases or even sampler tins. On this fragile basis I’d suggest Seville is (probably) similar to the original line. For all the rest I’m not able to comment.

@ PhilipS That’s interesting that you mention Masulipatem as your suggested return because I too find that snuff to sound the most interesting of those listed in their catalogue. Regarding the other snuffs I have all of F&T’s current line with the exception of French Carotte which I plan on getting soon. And HDT and Kendal Brown do seem to match their older descriptions and while I love Bordeaux, JR Justice, and Macouba it’s apparent that none of them are exact replicas of their older cousins. Of course JR Justice is a combination of Morlaix and Bordeaux with Morlaix being a modern snuff introduced in the 70’s if I recall correctly. Anyway, I’m still waiting to hear back from Wilson’s but as soon as I do I will be sure to inform the community.

Who knows, maybe they will be receptive. They have introduced new snuffs, obviously to compete with Toque. Maybe they are going to make a real effort at this.

Perhaps snuffhouse.org has awakend the snuff industry from its slumber. More and more it seems the various companies are taking our hints. @giaach: I have a 1970’s era Morlaix. Sadly it was unusable due to internal tin corrosion/oxidation. I keep it as a souvenier along with some other vintage snuff tins. The snuff inside smells much like modern Morlaix, but perhaps a bit more pungent. I dare not use it. However, I believe PhillipS has said that prior to that there was a Morlaix that was basically an unscented snuff.

@giaach: “HDT and Kendal Brown do seem to match their older descriptions” As PhilipS has pointed out, the pre-Wilsons HDT and (probably) Kendal Brown were simply rebadged Samuel Gawith snuffs. So if you wanted to try them today, get yourself some SG Irish ‘D’ Light and Kendal Brown Original. The current Wilsons versions are quite different.

@Xander That’s funny that you mention 1970’s era tin of Morlaix because I too found one unopened online, even came in the old 34 Haymarket shop box. But it was pretty corroded when I opened it so I didn’t use any of the snuff. Smelled just like my newer tin of Morliax though. Aside from that I am going to make a new thread regarding the WoS F+T line.

“However, I believe PhillipS has said that prior to that there was a Morlaix that was basically an unscented snuff.” @Xander Sorry to sound a little like a school master, but a history lesson follows: From 1740 Morlaix in France was a truly HUGE snuff and cigar making town with many steam-powered snuff mills that eventually came under the state tobacco monopoly. (See Royal Tobacco Factory at Morlaix). From a sheer size point of view, British snuff centres like Sheffield and Kendal pale in comparison. Genuine Morlaix snuff, viz: made in Morlaix - was an unscented brown rappee that could be bought at tobacconists all over France and French speaking nations in large waxed paper parcels until the 1980s. This is what I meant by original Morlaix. To the best of my knowledge snuff is not produced in France at all now, and none of the English snuffs called by the town’s name are or have ever been like proper Morlaix. London Brown by Sam Gawith is the snuff that most closely resembles Morlaix. Although it is a little milder in taste, perhaps not quite as dark and is somewhat moister it is an excellent substitute - and has a very long heritage in this nation too. The name ‘London Brown’, by the way, refers to the colour produced by painting sugar with molasses. It was in London, centuries ago, that the technique was first used, and the name has been applied to snuff since at least the early 19th century. Sadly, the tobacco industry in Morlaix came to an end in 2004 when the last cigars were made. This closed, after 260 years, what was the oldest and longest industrial chapter in French history.

@ PhillipS: Thank you. Crystal clear. I understand now. @giaach: Yes, I remember. The seller regularly sells full vintage snuff tins. Several members have gotten some good deals from him.