This is not a “Woe is me” thread but just something that I was told on Friday… Back in November I hurt my back at work… Finally a week ago Workman’s Comp was started… I must say that that my company has done a great job getting me where I needed to be… Last Monday I met with my HR person… Tuesday, I had a doctors appointment with and MRI taken… Wednesday, some results were given (not good news) & Friday I had a Surgeons Consultation… So all in all I’m pleased with the way that the injury is being handled… Now what I’m calling BS on… During my consolation on Friday I was asked if I smoke… Stating “no”, because I only enjoy a cigar or pipe on occasions… The surgeon asked any tobacco use? I stated “smokeless”… Then the lecture began… “Did you know Nicotine”… Backing up, I have herniated disk in my lower back, basically its no good and will continue to deteriorate over time… The plan at this point is to do Physical Therapy and see how it comes along in 4 weeks… If that doesn’t work… Out comes the knife… Now back to the nicotine part… Showing me my MRI, he pointed out that my disk is black and yes it is in the MRI… He told me that nicotine is attacking the disk and will continue to do the same over time as long as I consume the “poisonous chemical”. He stated along the lines that the nicotine is drawing out the fluid causing the disk to whither… Now my question is… Wouldn’t nicotine do the same to all my other disks? Here are the only two articles that I cared to search for on this matter… But it seems as if the chemicals in cigarette smoke other than nicotine are a cause of lower back problems… http://www.herniated-disc-pain.org/smoking-and-herniated-discs.html http://www.webmd.com/back-pain/tc/herniated-disc-what-increases-your-risk

If herniated disks are caused by coughing and ischemia, the smokeless tobacco is innocent of all charges. Various people I’ve known over the years who developed the problem had it attributed to past sports injuries, obesity or bad posture. These seem like more credible causes.

So I had a few minutes and just for curiosity is ran a Google search. Basically, it seems that all disks that are deteriorating are black. Nothing about here is clear evidence of nicotine use. Maybe its better to say no to the nic. questions until/unless it makes sense. Here is a link, with pic. stating black equals degeneration. http://spinespecialtyinstitute.com/spineinstitute/template.1.php3?page=Spinal%20Imaging

OK, I’ll bite. So if black = degeneration fine… But how does black = nicotine, or anything else from tobacco use? I think it is a pretty big leap. I HAVE read stories indicating that ‘smoking’ can delay/slow healing in back as well as other injuries, but to state that ‘black’ in an MRI indicates nicotine is , well bogus IMHO.

My mother in law is a retired physician, so I asked the question. She said smoking slows healing mostly due to lower oxygenation and circulation issues. Other forms of tobacco could cause the circulation issues but not the poor oxygenation. Full disclosure, she is a smoker.

Great input, thanks guys!

My mother in law is a retired physician, so I asked the question. She said smoking slows healing mostly due to lower oxygenation and circulation issues. Other forms of tobacco could cause the circulation issues but not the poor oxygenation. Full disclosure, she is a smoker.

I was informed prior to a surgery several years back that they highly recommend not smoking prior to and for several weeks following due to potential issues with healing. Circulation and oxygenation of the blood were cited as the reasons.

I was informed prior to a surgery several years back that they highly recommend not smoking prior to and for several weeks following due to potential issues with healing. Circulation and oxygenation of the blood were cited as the reasons.

Yes, for most forms of surgery, they can actually calculate the impact of smoking on healing times on recovery and adjust schedules accordingly. But there is probably a very limited evidence base for the impact of taking snuff. My intuitive feeling is that the impact would be limited, but [insert standard disclaimer about not being a medical practitioner].

Interesting thread. New Zealand’s health gurus actually advocate the use of nasal snuff as an alternative to smoking and oral snus/chewing tobacco. Seems the nasal passages are self-cleansing due to the nature of the mucous membranes present; when “irritated” by snuff, the waterworks begin and the snuff is washed away. Cigarettes are loaded with chemicals, are set afire and inhaled into the lungs; snus/chew is also loaded up and sits in one place for an extended period of time. No debate about it-nicotine is poison. So are many pharmaceuticals. It’s a question of portion control. In recent decades the medical field has become increasingly politicized, and the demon-du-jour could be coffee/caffeine, tobacco/nicotine, meat/cholesterol, sugar/diabetes…whatever. It’s about 99.99% Bullshit. My MD is 81 years old, retired twice, got bored, went back to work. He has two cigars (Fuente Hemingway Classic) and three bowls of pipe tobacco (Dunhill Early Morning, #965 and Nightcap) every single day…for about the last 60 years (started in college). He’s the most fit sonofabitch I know. He applauds my indulgence in “nose food”. He knows and acknowledges that nicotine in excess is toxic and stupid. He advocates moderation in everything…including all the popular poisons-alcohol, tobacco, red meat and bacon. He is living proof that if you don’t go crazy stupid insane you can indulge in all sorts of things and still live a long, productive life. I have spinal arthritis that doesn’t have f__k all to do with nicotine or any other lifestyle choice. It’s genetic. Quitting snuff isn’t going to make it go away. It will just make me more miserable. Life’s too short for that shit. 'nuff said.

Doctors are just humans, every word that comes from their mouth is not necessarily a fact, but something they believe. Who knows if the person cheated their way through medical school? This is not saying don’t trust all doctors, but its always a good idea to have a second “opinion”. There are many studies showing nicotine is as harmless as caffeine, and equally as addictive. That being said caffeine kills on average of 100 people per year from overdose. I am pretty sure with out coming into contact with pure nicotine (which will kill you pretty fast, or at least my in my grandmas shed she had an old bottle of nicotine used for… killing something, it had a large skull and crossbones on it) is dangerous. This is known. Regular use of snuff would be impossible to achieve a lethal dose. Ok, I am way off the topic now. Hope you feel better, and that the Dr. is wrong. If not, you may ask to see other medical reference to it. Because even basic studies show otherwise.

I think it maybe a case of better safe then sorry

One always needs to advocate for oneself or have someone we trust to advocate for us if needed; the medical business is not all humanitarian and not all doctors are good at what they do. Don’t forget that half of the medical school graduates graduated in the bottom half of their class. Doesn’t mean that they don’t mean well but, as with any other profession, some should be doing something else.

@mouse completely agree, and you reminded me of an old navy joke. What do you call someone who almost failed medical school?.. lieutenant.

It’s call a Medical Practice some day in a few hundred years it may be called Medical Perfection. Until then trust no one practicing medicine. Most of them learned nothing about herbal medicine and diet to cure health problems. It is all about big pharma.

@basement_shaman My mother in law is a retired physician and she was always big on herbs and holistic medicine and my wife worked as an RN at a holistic practice until she became a stay at home mom. The reason I trust their medical advice is the fact that they aren’t afraid to say ‘I don’t know’ and they realize some things are best left to the universe/god/spirits/whatever one believes in. My wife is also trained in reiki/energy work.

@SandwhichIsles Notice I didn’t say all. Just most. Trust no one means get a second opinion. Sorry if my statement above rubbed you the wrong way.

@basement_shaman no it didn’t rub me the wrong way at all, I just forgot to tack on that by and large I wholeheartedly agree with you. I’ve been blessed to have entered into a family with so much healing Wisom vice Medical practice. Most people aren’t so lucky so they have to contend with big pharma pill pusher drones.