Are you ready for the world to end? What if all communications were disrupted and any type of new order totally stopped for snuff, would you have a sufficient stash to be prepared for it? I ask this because of the bad news regarding the PACT act. Obviously people like Tom F and others in the business would be a resounding yes, at least for their personal useage pattern. But what about the others here? What if you could never order again, are you currently ready for it? I definitely feel ready thanks to rubber sealed containers as well as ziploc bags and some generous past orders. I don’t think any of this would affect me that much because I anticipated it and purchased appropriately late last year. I guess now I know what it’s like to get marooned on a desert island with an entire shipful of snuff available to me… heh heh. I am curious to know about the forum at large, are you guys/gals ready to ride out the storm?

A girl friend of mine (just friends) has some theory about 12/12/12 and the world coming to an end. The only arrangements I’ve made is that if we are both single on 12/11/12 we will get together and… well… you know… like rabbits…

Well Nicola, I don’t know whether the PACT will have any influence on me being in South Africa but yes, I’m prepared. I have enough snuff to last me at least 2 years. I can buy Ntsu, Taxi, Babaton and McChrystal’s O&G locally. I can make my own snuff using cigars and pipe tobacco. I also have some Rustica plants growing of which I can harvest seeds until my dying day. If I do run out of seeds, I can buy tobacco leaves locally. So, I won’t have as many different snuffs as what I have now but I will never run out of stock.

I agree with Roderick in that I think there will be a way around it or through it. However, just in case, I have been collecting 7 or 8 snuffs i could live on (or can’t live without) if the worst case doomsday scenario occurred. I have over 1500 grams of those snuffs stashed in seal a meal bags in the refrigerator. What I would miss is the occasional snuffs, for example some of the Bernards, which I order in the 10 gram tap boxes and use occasionally. @Roderick, my understanding is the bill makes it illegal to use the USPS and fed-ex and UPS said they would not mail Tobacco in the spirit of the law. Has the bill changed? BTW a bulk order for Quit and SP Xtra is coming your way (just in case).

@miamimark – you guys have your date inverted a bit – the day the world is expect to end (at least as we know it) is: 12/21/12 (Winter Solstice), this is a bit later in the month than you and your girlfriend have in mind – best to reschedule your making like rabbits for December 20th, 2012 to the rest of the topic: I thought I was maybe closer to ready, but maybe I’m not after all.

Hmm, I’m pretty sure she thinks it’s the 12th. I don’t think I’ll mention her mistake until the 13th, just in case…

The United States says it supports open markets, but this PACT act smacks of protectionism. It seems like a way to make sure there is no foreign competition to American tobacco companies.

at least I do have an order of some bulk things on the way from Mr Snuff (its waiting for one of them to come in to him that had to be special ordered): Dholakia White Snuff Bulk FT 260g Bulk Wilsons Bulk 260g Grunt Bulk (260? I asked this to added plus a couple of other things were added too but I don’t have them on the actual invoice/list where I copied this from), I also found out I am accidentally missing a Kendal Twist thing from a previous order (thinking about trying a little bit of it as intended in the mouth but more than likely to grind it for snuff) and hopefully he’ll see my email about that and we can sort that out other than that I have to stop right there and really not buy anything else right now due to some kind of problem at my bank where money is coming out of my account at an insane rate in amounts I don’t recognize which I need to get to the bank as soon as its open again and see what those charges are and get that sorted right away) but I’m already thinking ahead of what some other things are I should get, and if we’re not all forbidden to do it before I can, next it’ll very likely be 1. connecting with Stoker’s for catalog to buy two 2lb containers, (one each), of their Stoker’s Plain and Sweet, 2. another order from MrSnuff that’ll likely include a tin or two of “De Kralingse Latakia AO 1860” and possibly one each of his bags of Sternecker’s

Roderick seems like the kind of guy who’s looking out for us, and has seemed to verified that we will still be able to acquire our beloved snuff, so I’m at least somewhat reassured by what he’s written… …and that being said, I do have a sizable amount of snuff stored up: 70 grams of Whiskey & Honey in a glass jar and several cans of various scotches are my fall-back snuffs, but I doubt it would last me more than a year if I were cut-off entirely. Edit…Dave? Tom? you both have been quiet on this issue it seems…your thoughts?

Okay, this whole thing just has me thoroughly confused. Anyway, Just how long do we get before it comes into being put into place/a reality/played out/enforced etc?

Here is the CBO estimate of the cost of enforcing the PACT Act. CBO estimates suggest that the Government is expecting the continuation of a fair amount of interstate commerce in tobacco products after the Act Passes. In any case, to the best of my knowledge, the Act still has to be voted upon by the House, since it was ammended by the Senate, and then signed into law by the President. The law would go into affect 90 days after the President signs it, insofar as I can determine. But don’t pay any attention to me, I’ve been wrong about just about everything related to this up until now. I only saw this today, so it’s been rather inaccessible up until now. [url]http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/112xx/doc11258/s1147.pdf[/url]

okay, lemme get this straight (trying again to understand and then make a summary here) of just what I think this PACT act means (I have read the CBO link given in the ‘are you ready?’ thread) so to me (and somebody come back and tell me where I’m wrong) it looks like we WILL still be able to get tobacco BUT we will have to pay taxes on it based on where we live (which state) and I’m thinking based on other things too such as comments by Roderick that it will be up to the sellers to include that (or should be or would be real nice and extra responsible of them if they did this for us to save both seller and buyer risks) and the post office isn’t supposed to deliver them (which means MrSnuff and NicotineRush will have to remove that option from their pages) but other ways, FedEX and UPS (the brown truck guys) DHL etc should I think sill be able to deliver them and it also looks like any laws such as say, the state of Michigan put out there in 2004 might (hopefully) be pre-empted by this federal one (which might be a good thing actually for Michiganders). they also plan to ‘inspect’ (I couldn’t realy see a good explanation for why on this only that they will) sellers like MrSnuff and NicotineRush so, they’re making it more of a hassle (more expensive both to buy and deliver) to legally buy and get things, but not impossible. EDIT – part of the reason I think we’re still going to be allowed but with a ton of stipulations is because of the very tax talk itself – it would make no sense to tax the bejebus out of something that you’re also at the same time trying to ban outright. How close am I? EDITING AGAIN — I really think I’ve got it, based on this summary found on this page: http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2010/03/13/pact\\_snuffs/ The PACT Act will: * Require Internet sellers to pay all federal, state, local or Tribal tobacco taxes and affix tax stamps before delivery to any customer; * Mandate that the age and identification of purchasers be checked at purchase and at delivery; * Require Internet vendors to comply with state and local laws as if they were located in the same state as their customers; * Provide federal and state enforcement officials with new tools to block delivery of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products that evade federal or state laws; and * Ban the delivery of tobacco products through the U.S. mail. reposting this from where I first said it over on the PACT act thread.

@Whistlrr: I wouldn’t be too sure. The way the United States first outlawed Marijuana in the 30s was to put an exorbitant tax on it and then refuse to collect the tax. Anyone with the product would be in violation of tax laws. That is why the Treasury department was in charge of enforcement. Ain’t government grand.

@nachman hmm… First I was gonna say 'well we’re really hurting for economy and having a recession, why would they turn away an oppurtunity to get more money…" but a half a second later I stopped and thought again: you did say this was done during the 1930’s… which was the DEpression… and there is something to it about them being already confused and not making it easy for people to actually pay these things even as we are right now I’ll admit I was giving myself a bit of hope there, and now I have a little less of it again… … and I can only collect up snuff only so fast…

If it has to go back through the house, why don’t we use that time to write our Congressmen in the House and tell them that we don’t support this act? I bet if they get enough complaints about the bill from their constituants it might change their minds. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

yes that was the depression and they wanted to have an excuse to round up mexicans, which was a very big part of the motivation for the tax act. I know it may seem hard to believe but it is true.

okay sorry if this is completely stupid to ask but @bob or @nachman (or anybody who might know) in the 1930’s could you walk into a store and buy marijuana? The reason I am ask is, if so, did physical stores ring up taxes back then like they do now? I’m wondering as I think about this and having JUST found a website for a nearby physical store that shows it DOES sell snuff… so how does that physical store get it shipped to them and the taxes properly paid in the first place (so that they can in turn ring it up and pass that cost on) before selling to you at the cash register? Whats the difference? Why is a physical store able to successfully navigate this very same thing (get things shipped to them, pay what they should AND have it properly received by the authorities etc) that we’re trying to do? @MrSnuffy that’s a great idea, I was thinking about that too and in fact when I was looking up the PACT act earlier today I had found a page that lists where everybody each for their own for their state should write/who your two guys are, and I’ll go back and see if I can find that again, I’ll post it here if I do, give me a few minutes. Hah good on me (I never closed that link) here: http://www.smokinglobby.com/forum/post-32341.html crap… thats senators… do we need them or do we need congressmen?

Because individual retails stores are licensed tobacco retailers in your state, they go through licensed tobacco wholesalers to buy their cigarettes, cigars, dip, etc. The problems that The PACT Act introduces is that online retailers have to navigate the tax and compliance mazes of every state they would ship to, if they could find a shipper, and face criminal and civil charges if they didn’t. The costs of compliance would be exhorbitant, and I can imagine most people not considering it worth the bother. There are much easier ways to earn a dollar.

alright… I’ve read this through a few times now I have to ask if a wholesaler has to be in the same state as the retailer, and if not (and a wholesaler can ship to more than one state) how that works out and why? If MrSnuff is located for example in Vermont (I am just making that up I have no idea where he’s located I never saw it on the return mail labeling) does he have to buy then from only a Vermont tobacco wholesaler? Does the store down my street have to only buy from a same-state wholesaler? Are THEY allowed to sell to any retailers anywhere they want? I’m asking because of this tax thing… at some point somebody along the food chain already has to be ready to answer all this multi-tax thing, so if its at the wholesaler level… I lost my train of thought there a minute anyway somewhere along the line it has to be happening already in the physical world that somebody’s having to send to more than one state and answer to all this (and now I’m guessing its the wholesaler level) before we ever see the store and the register. Like the store down the street, MrSnuff has something to do with wholesale stuff, I would bet that’s a proper registered one too, and with both an online and a physical store, now I am curious to who all are they (wholesalers) able to send products in what all places and at what part/stage in the proverbial food chain does the tax money actually get sent back to the government. I think I’m hurting my head with this and so I’ll just listen to this for the time being http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWAl5V-SiKQ EDITED to add (after a rousing round of The Beatles’ take on things) Maybe we need, somehow, at least one online snuff store per state dedicated to selling only within its own state (yep, aside from MrSnuffy’s idea we should write and object, thats my best suggested solution right now, that’s all I got…) No wait, I have another idea: why can’t places like MrSnuff have a tax-tallying thing at the checkout just like they do for shipping charges? you click or type in your state and the tax is figured for you before you pay (yes that won’t help MrSnuff be able to pay it back to the government that apparently doesn’t know how to accept it… I think part of the trouble comes from the fact that physical stores pay the tax first then resell it but MrSnuff doesn’t and would have to fiddle around and do it AFTER…) I’m still thinking about all this.

@whistlrr: I don’t think the wholesaler pays the tax on tobacco. I think the retailer does based on his purchases, but I’m not sure. Stores never sold marijuana back in the 30s. It was always an underground business mostly among blacks and hispanics in those days. Made it easy for the government to target them, They were in the process of legalising alcohol and had all those treasury agents about to be out of a job and facing big budget cuts for their department. Government finds ways to perpetuate their existence so they put out a lot of propaganda saying pot was highly addictive and made you crazy, thus saving their own jobs. Look up the movie “Reefer Madness”. It was put out by the US government in the 30s to convince Congress to outlaw marijuana. In the 60s people watched it for laughs. Only problem is, when everyone realised they had been lied to by Big Brother, they assumed all the other things they had heard about drugs were not true and many tried some really bad stuff.

@whistlrr The tobacco wholesalers probably don’t ship via the postal system. They most likely have their own privatly owned delivery trucks or 18 wheelers, or contract it out. Like the bread and milk trucks and food trucks that you see delivering food to the local supermarket or department store.

I recently found a movement that seems pretty large that believes the End of the World will start on May 21, 2011, with the Rapture, and then the destruction of the world the following October. I’m personally not a Bible believer, but I do think someday, something big is going to happen. Though I had never heard the of the May 21, 2011 before. It has a worldwide following, and many websites explaining it. http://www.may212011.com/ http://www.may21st2011.com/ http://www.2011-the-end.com/ There is more if anyone wants to look. I haven’t read it all. I do have a feeling that something is going to happen in the next few years though. It seems humanity as a whole is just sinking so fast. Maybe not.

tom, THAT was the posting of century!

I hope that all the people waiting for some type of Armageddon, get it. Seriously I hope they do, then the rest of us who are not trying to emulate Chicken Little can move on and live life. Ken

Word.

This comes up everytime in history. One of the really funny things in my opinion is that a lot of times in a way people are right thay everything is falling apart. Which is really funny because they always ignore the things coming together at the same time. When ever a few major changes happen it’s an apocolypse for some. I’am sure the first time some started farming it was the end of the world upset the natural balance or would piss off the gods. It happens again and again. I guess I’am saying I’am not too worried about everything falling apart cause well it really can’t it’s got to fall into something else and who knows what that is. If history is any indicator (which if it isn’t whats the point of history then?)people thinking the end is nigh is predictable and completely non-predictive.

A surfer shouldn’t knows the wave will end when it hits the shore, and that another will come to be ridden again. They don’t think about this, they just enjoy the ride. Ken

The only thing you learn from history is that history teaches you nothing.

History can teach you patterns of human behavior. That and playing Trivial Pursuit. As for applying it to future problems, sometimes, however if hiding inside a large wooden horse you place at the gates of your enemies fortress as a “gift” does not work out for you, then you understand the nature of why magicians never do a trick twice. Ken

Actualy the lesson I take from the Trojan horse is that if you make out of date propaganda to make someone else look like an idiot and to make yourselve look clever a few cultures later you’ve just made your time period look more retarded. The trojan horse never happened!

there is a bloke that walks around town here thats always going on about may 2011 … he hands out flyers about it has a cap that says may 2011 and is always listening to the radio station that broadcasts that nonsense . some of the younger people that go to this church have dropped out of school and travelling the world . i always ask him if he is so certain its gonna happen why isnt the church he goes to up for sale ? …

I wonder what they will do with all their hats and t-shirts on the 22nd?

Use them to wash their cars.

They´ll just change it to mayBE 2011 then.

I have seen the same phenomenon. There is a church which proclaims the end is near and a few years ago built a new “cathedral” in my city. The signs at the construction site said "Home of the new three million dollar (name deleted) cathedral. What a waste of three million!

I hope I’m not offending anyones beliefs, but I find the the End Timers’ doctrine quite insane. As is any religious extremism. Insane and destructive. There’s an interesting (and perhaps little over dramatic) documentary called The Doomsday Code that I recommend. Also, checking out the Rapture Ready Bulletin Board might be revealing on how these people think.

History has proven time and time again that the most dangerous thing in the world is strong religious beliefs, which are to blame for nearly all atrocities throughout human history.

@JariT and n9inchnails Strongly agree . Theres nothing worst than lunatics that think they are doing god work huh

@Nachman You cant believe how many new churchs they are bulding they after day here in Brazil.big and expensive contructions , its sad to see the rich ones begging for money to the poor .

oh my god. there is no way i can use up all my snuff till then. WHY GOD OH WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME? Now I have to think what will be last snuff ill use? I cant do that! *jumps out off the window* oh wait, they say its in the bible? bollocks.

religion is fine it’s what you do with it. I love how almost all of the nastiest parts of religion seem to be very removed from the sources they claim. Generaly I think a terrible person will use what ever they can to get their way. A decent person will use what they can to help them stay moral.

Bob: “Generaly I think a terrible person will use what ever they can to get their way. A decent person will use what they can to help them stay moral.” Generally, Ithink that’s pretty damn wise.