While everybody was anguishing over the passage of the PACT Act, the FDA has been in the process of setting up a system of regulating all tobacco products sold in the U.S. A thread over at Snuson.com, having to do with Northerner’s plans to sell from their U.S. facility, but to offer fewer brands, got heated for awhile. In response to complaints about the company’s plans to cut down on the selection offered from their U.S. facility, Frank of Northerner.com posted this at Snuson.com earlier today: [quote]“The reason why we have to limit the brand selection is that by the 22nd of June, FDA requirements says that ALL tobacco brands sold in the US should be registered at the FDA - the manufacturer should send an ingredient list and register all their brands. The only manufacturer that have done so are; Swedish Match, Skruf/Imperial, Gotlandssnus, V2 and TillCe. I have contacted both JTI and BAT several times and they told me that they have no intention of register their brands in the US because of possible conflicts with their US organizations. Gellivare never even replied to my request. Gajane might do it but have not given any more information when it will be done. I will contact a lawyer in Washington and the American Trade Department at the US Embassy in Stockholm on Tuesday in next week and ask them to contact the FDA for a request if we as a Swedish company with a US subsidy have to follow the Pact Act. We just want to look into the future where we don’t break the law, I personal wouldn’t be able to sleep otherwise. Happy Easter folks! Frank”[/quote] There seems to be a great deal of confusion, even among insiders in the snus community, about the PACT Act and The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (which gave the FDA the power to regulate tobacco products in the U.S.). It seems as if many people were under the impression that they were somehow related. They aren’t: PACT has to do with ordering tobacco products and having them delivered across state lines, and FSPTCA has to with what tobacco products may be legally sold by ANYBODY (except cigars, in all probability). Any ideas concerning how these new FDA Regulations will affect the availability of snuff in the U.S. (as if things weren’t bad enough already)?
When snuff is outlawed, only outlaws will take snuff. Circumventing the rules has always been a popular American passtime.
If they make my favourite snuffs illegal, I’ll do what I plan on doing with the snus that Northerner won’t sell me any more. Go online and buy it from overseas.
Well ordered from Northerner recently and had half my order not show up. only 2 cans said backordered. Hope he does not limit soon and screw me mighty on it… Next friday so I can do 1 more oden order and call it good.
The FDA will only affect snus sold in the USA. Any brand sold by a USA based shop will have to comply with the FDA. However, tobacco sold in Europe to individual consumers over the web and shipped to the USA will not be affected. That is why it is so important for our foreign merchants to check out what PACT compliance really means (as Roderick has done and as we are asking Frank to do). I would not be at all surprised to find that PACT/FDA have very little effect on anything but USA based shops (including actual taxes and shipping through the mail). Remember, you are already required by law to pay tax on the tobacco you order. And there is already a system in place for collecting that Tax- you are legally required to declare it. I don’t see anything in PACT that either changes or replaces this system. Either it was not well thought out or it has other aims besides snuff and snus coming from Europe.
Of course PACT affects only US-based shops. US law does not extend to other countries. What remains to be seen is whether or not tobacco mailed to the US from other countries will actually get through. That is what no one yet knows. US Customs can seize it, so too can the ATF. The USPS can refuse to deliver it. The customer can even face possible felony charges. All of that or none of that can happen. Keep in mind that individuals can continue to mail cigarettes and smokeless products, even within the US. And cigars are exempt from PACT. On the bright side: if the mailed packages are not emblazoned with a company logo – you know, like DEREK’S TAX HAVEN DISCOUNT TOBACCO SHOP – and no paper invoice is included, I don’t see how there could be a disruption in mail service. As far as the USPS and Customs are concerned, my friend Jack in the UK was kind enough to mail me some snuff. What a pleasant surprise! All nice and legal like. Nudge nudge, wink wink. PACT is a stupid law. We just need to allow the stupidity to work in our favor.
To seize, refuse, or prosecute would be a direct violation of the World Trade Agreement. It would be illegal and a breach of the USA’s treaty with her allies. The only legal hindrance of a package to the USA from a reputable EU dealer would be to insure the taxes due were collected.
here is a link to the PACT act bill itself. Its not that long. Go read it [url]http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=8814[/url] As you read, notice what was missing? There is no mention of legitimate foreign companies selling to USA consumers. The wording of the entire law assumes interstate commerce. This is a USA directed law. I see absolutely nothing in it that even remotely concerns foreign companies operating legally with in already existing trade agreements with the USA. The language of this law would have to rescind existing international tobacco trade laws or further qualify them (and I’m not even sure a domestic bill can do that without several other measures and steps). Our suppliers don’t need to do anything more than what they are doing THIS IS A BILL DIRECTED AT DOMESTIC COMPANIES AND SELLERS ONLY IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT FORIGN TRADE NOR CAN IT BE CONSTRUED TO DO SO OR BE LEGALLY APPLIED TO SUCH. THIS IS GOOD NEWS
Yes, it is well understood that PACT is an extension of the Jenkins Act. It has been mentioned a hundred times in the various PACT threads here.
Sorry about that. I’ve been a little busy here the past week or so. Thus I’m just catching up on my reading. I did not even realize the thing had been passed. O well, at least it was hopeful redundancy.
My question would be…Was the Seneca nation getting their tobacco (cigarettes) from terrorist organizations?
@ Juxtaposer To the best of my knowledge, the Senecas were getting their Marlboro’s from Phillip Morris. Your call.
But isn’t it illegal to buy clove ciggs from overseas?
@ tom502 It’s more like it’s illegal to sell clove cigarettes in the U.S. Just like it’s “more” illegal to sell cocaine than it is to buy it. I really, really wish everyone would stop trying to get definitive assurance about how the world is going to work after the PACT Act goes into effect. I can guarantee it’s not going to be any worse if people quit contacting every civic official they can think of seeking reassurance that their snuff or snus deliveries won’t be interrupted. I started this thread, and if I could, I would delete the whole thing. Mea maxima culpa.
I’m writing to the Pope!
Well if you write the Pope and do not reference buggering little boys and girls, he might actually read it.
@ Whalen Take the anti Catholic bigotry, and talk that bullshit somewhere else.
LHB, that’s not anti-Catholic bigotry. If Catholics can take people saying the least bit of something offensive around them concerning them or their faith, they need to calm down a bit. I need to deal with things that bother me every day, so do Catholics. As much as they may wish to think they are “special,” it doesn’t mean they are immune to criticism, or that any criticism is tantamount to a war on Christianity. That’s another excuse I’m getting sick of almost as much as the ‘Oh, but the children!’ people. Rant aside, I can’t see this limiting what we can purchase unless you’ve been buying all your snuff in a brick and mortar store. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure things will remain unaffected.
Ah I’ll take it into another direction. He isn’t the real pope anyways Linus is the weak link in the chain. 
Sorry had to go there.
yeah, no religion talk, please.