In my short but illustrious snuff career (6 months) I have finally plumped for some Fribourg & Treyer and would like further recommendations based on what I like so far! I’ve tried Old Paris and Santa Domingo based on recommendations here and on snuffreviews.com and my observations are that I *love* (as in **love**!) Old Paris. I get that very earthy base tobacco scent that the other components really bring out for me but don’t overpower. When I first tried WoS Grand Cairo I fell in love, and Old Paris for me is a very similar experience, but I like it even more as the tobacco is more fluffy and less dry. For some reason I get a strange whiff of that gorgeous smell of sun on dusty streets just after rain. This interests me as that smell has a name and proven origin! It’s called “petrichor” and is apparently an oil exuded by plants as protection from dry spells. This may be entirely irrelevant but I wonder if tobacco has this oil. Santa Domingo I find nice but much more an “occasional” tobacco: there is something in there that I find a little harder going. I notice the base tobacco is much darker than Old Paris, and like WoS Best Dark, I initially love it but find it a bit too tangy after a while. It may not be the dark tobacco though but some strong ingredient I don’t take to as well: maybe geranium or violet? If anyone can tell me what may be in common between SD and BD I’d appreciate it. At any rate, Old Paris is already a snuff I want to take every day. Could anyone recommend other F&T snuffs that match OP well? Nothing too overpowering and that fluffy lighter brown tobacco base? People seem to say that several F&Ts are mixtures of others, so I’m after something like OP but not *too* like it
@polly if you love Old Paris then i think you will also, in high probability, love Morlaix. Also try Dr.JR Justice ( 50/50 blend of Bordeaux and Morlaix) which is a bit more strongly scented but also excellant.
try them all.
some are all days and some are treats.
Hi @Polly. F&T’s Old Paris is likewise one of my very firm favourites. I would recommend Macouba given your comments; it combines earthy and bergamot citrus (think F&T’s answer to Grand Ciaro cross with OP). Other than that SWS excelent Creme de Figue is a similar flavour but a very different feel and grind. If you’re not into geranium or violet I personally would avoid Morlaix and Justice, both are excellent but are in no way all day snuff (for me anyways) as they are floral/perfume type scents and linger for a good while in the nose. All the best with your seach!
@Polly, I agree that you will probably enjoy Macouba. I would also recommend French Carotte. No, there isn’t any carrots in it. I think it’s the best sandalwood snuff on the market. Let us know what you try next.
@Polly, I agree that you will probably enjoy Macouba. I would also recommend French Carotte. No, there isn’t any carrots in it. I think it’s the best sandalwood snuff on the market. Let us know what you try next.
@gryffandor - so true, that had slipped my mind but is an excellent recommendation; well played.
Thank you all for your suggestions! I actually have WoS Morlaix, is the F&T similar? I *quite* like it occasionally, but again it has something in it I have to take in small doses. Maybe it is violet common between that and Santa Domingo as @MisterPaul suggests. As for Macouba, I have some Molens Macouba that I really didn’t take to at all, but that’s probably because it arrived like sawdust in those horrible little see-through tap boxes Not sure if I should try to revive it… But I’m guess this gives me no indication at all of what F&T Macouba is like. Could someone suggest what kinds of flavours it has? If it is like Grand Cairo, I’m in! French Carotte! Thanks @gryffandor, I do quite like WoS Sandalwood, although I find the scent disappears very quickly. I may well want to try this in F&T if it’s appreciably different…? What about Patchouli? It doesn’t seem a common choice for F&T favourites but I suspect I may like it due to a misspent youth… Any views on this one appreciated. Finally everyone mentions Bureau: is this a dark tobacco like Santa Domingo or lighter like Old Paris? And what sorts of scents…?
@Polly French Carotte is nothing like WoS Sandalwood. It has the longest lasting scent of any other I have tried with the exception of menthols, which don’t agree with me & cause rebound congestion. Hope this helps :)>-
Yeah to the misspent youth/patchouli connection, lol. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds…
If you had any princes F&T makes a good one. I just adore their toast,I use that often. seville reminds me of old ladies perfume.
Seville- The first Snuff I ever had. I still have 7/8ths of a small tin after 3years. Wretched, in my opinion. Smells like … ok… you know those women who are 45 but are still goin clubbing and hitting on anything that moves? Imagine they had a purse, one they take with them to the club because it makes them look “sexy”…now take a huge huff of the interior of that purse…that is what Seville smells like to me. Blech [-O< :-& others seem to enjoy it though.
Hello again @Polly Yes, I’d say F&T’s Macouba is a kind of cross between WoS Grande Cairo (the bergamot/citrus scent is definately apparent in the mix) and a good SP. It’s certainly OK to take as an everyday snuff. If you like Cairo I can’t foresee that you wouldn’t apprecaite this. Patchouli is an odd cookie and seems to divide the snuff fiends! It smells lovely, but it extremely long in the nose and really lingers and carries: i.e. as a before bed snuff you’ll still be getting the scent the next day. Not an everydayer for me, but historically it’s one of the oldest F&T blends and is a nice occassional snuff.
WOS Sherry is very similar, seems to me to be the same base. It is like a slightly tart Old Paris.
Thanks again for all the comments! French Carotte is now on the list! And I’ve had enough people warn me about Seville to not try it for now (I assume it’s not just orange…) @MisterPaul F&T Macouba is now very definitely on the list too, because I am a huge fan of Grand Cairo and just about any SP! I actually always think of GC as a SP plus other scents… I am intrigued by Patchouli and may just go for it because I love the idea of smelling a very old blend with some history. @khalid thanks, I keep being tempted by WoS Sherry, maybe I’ll try. @basement_sharman is F&T Princes like WoS Princes? I’m not entirely enamoured of the latter, and not sure why - maybe it’s a little too violetty for me, if I remember it correctly.
In other words “smells like a tart’s handbag” You know it’s funny… I always associate this description with Royal George…
I find Seville to be a masterpiece. Both invigorating and intoxicating. No, its not orange. Its neroli, the oil extracted from Seville Orange flowers. However, in keeping with the topic its nothing like Old Paris.
Like Xander, I really like Seville. I have had my tin for about 8 months, don’t use it very often, but when I do, I enjoy it a very much. Its powerful Neroil scent may smell like a “tarts handbag” to some, but to me, its a wonderful aroma. The underlying tobacco is reddish brown, and after putting a slice of carrot in it a week ago, is now fluffy, moist and satisfying(takes another pinch…) yeah, its worth a try for sure. Oh and as above…its nothing like OP at all. A different character altogether.
Yes, another vote for Seville and patchouli. I like all of the F&T snuffs.
Thanks all! I ordered F&T Macouba and Patchouli and some WoS Sherry. Seville will be added to my “wildcard” list! I wish F&T did tiny taster pots.
@Polly Once upon a time, they did just that.
Thanks all! I ordered F&T Macouba and Patchouli and some WoS Sherry. Seville will be added to my “wildcard” list! I wish F&T did tiny taster pots.
Be sure to tell u your thoughts Polly! Hope that you enjoy them
@Xander wow, I’m such a noob. I would love those sizes! Thanks @MisterPaul, I have them in my hands now I’ll give you my initial reactions purely from the scent from the tins (too early to snuff because I am a lightweight). It may be fun to compare when I actually take some. F&T Macouba: the tobacco looks the same as my beloved Old Paris! The scent is moreish in the extreme, very sweet (yum) and very complex. I am getting a sweet alcoholic drink, but it’s unlike anything I’ve smelled. My utterly dried out box of Molens Macouba put me off the idea, but this is definitely convincing me! F&T Patchouli: wow this is a strange one. Initially I get PAINT! And I quite like the smell of fresh paint I do get that scent of thick patchouli from misspent youth but it’s not quite the same, there’s something added I can’t identify. It might be the ammonia, so might lessen. I don’t predict this will be everyday as it’s odd, but I am very intrigued to try. WoS Sherry: oh yum. I’m getting Toque’s Spanish Gem (which I love, although I find a bit short-lasting in taste) but it’s dryer - actually like a dry rather than sweet sherry. I think I may love this one.
IMO “reccomendations” are next to worthless because everybody’s nose is different! Try them for yourself and make your own decisions. Having said that, I haven’t seen any references to Morocco yet… BTW: If you get one that you don’t especially care for, don’t throw it away! One’s taste changes over time.
@Polly Yay! I glad that you’re pleased with them. Macouba is probably only one of four of the F & T range that I consider good as an all day type snuff. From your comments I sure that this will become a firm favourite for you too. I agree that Patchouli is a bit of an oddity, likewise I think it smells a little odd in the tin - to me it seems longer and more earthy in the nose (Will have to have a pinch this evening now!). Some of the F&T range do seem to ahve more ammonia than others (fresher I guess), it’s worth putting a couple of shovels in a snuff box, if you have one, to dry a little. They do mature off over time too, the last tin of Bureau I brought was very fresh and to be fair I wasn’t keen on it initially, nearly a year on it’s really come into it’s own Have fun and enjoy them anayways!
@howdydave totally agree - I’ve found some I tried and didn’t like before and now love them. I *even* managed to tolerate a little Lemon Toast yesterday! This may not seem odd, but I have yet to get on with *any* toast, too rubbery for me until yesterday @MisterPaul thanks! I actually started to quite like that fresh smell of ammonia when I open a new tin… maybe it just means “fresh” to me. I think I have an odd nose!
Princes, If you like OP this would be worth checking out. Sir Walter Scott’s Creme de Figue is a premium version of Old Paris Expensive but worth the cost just to know what snuff should be. Also try Samuel Gawiths Kendal Brown Original. Must be good since produced for 200 yrs plus. (one of my dailys)
Belated thanks @jpsavage. Yes I’m already knee-deep in SWS Crème de Figue, I think it’s my desert island snuff. Can’t say I find it too similar to Old Paris though actually! I find them delicious in very different ways: OP more like a dusty old library and CoF more like a Autumnal stroll. And there’s two entirely unhelpful metaphors for you! I really must try Kendal Brown… thanks!
Princes with 20% Tom Buck. A mix from Prof. Griffiths that I use as a daily snuff. Very good flavour and long lasting.
I delight in F&T snuffs - even though the characters of the actual ingredients must have changed over time - African, rather than Brazilian tobacco, for example - part of the enjoyment is in the heritage; the importance of which is reflected in the fact that Wilsons took over the recipes when Imperial tobacco closed F&T down. I can just remember going in to the old shop at 34 Haymarket as a student. Magical. It is an absolute tragedy that it was closed down. Macouba is a great favourite of mine and is scented with attar of roses. Beau Brummell liked this and used it as a mixer. After his exile in Calais, George IV passed through and caught sight of his estranged friend in the press of the crowd but each was too proud to approach the other and they never met again. However, the king ran dry of snuff and asked for some to be brought and someone went to Brummell, who sent some of his own mixing. The Prince exclaimed that he knew only one man who could mix snuff in that way and was told that it was, indeed, from Brummell. Some say that ‘Macouba’ might have been Dickens’ inspiration for the name of Mr Micawber in David Copperfield. Old Paris was another Brummell favourite, along with Bureau (to me Bureau is complex and sophisticated). Santo Domingo I rate as an after-dinner snuff. I simply cannot understand why Seville meets with such a bad press! Dr J R Justice and Morocco have some real fizz and zing. Princes is another after-dinner type (made black so that it would not show on the Prince Regent’s coat!), whereas Princes Special is lighter. There are still some F&T that I have not tried but I shall certainly get around to them.
@oldparis and @lunecat some fantastic historical and lit references there! i too love some snuffs partly because you feel you are sniffing history. I am in a bit of a tizzy with regard to F&T now. Old Paris has become one of my three or so every day snuffs along with the SWS’s. There is something in it that for me is so amazing I cannot ever be without it. Even more than Grand Cairo which I thought was my forever snuff; but it’s supplanted it. There is some strange and amazing scent in OP’s aroma that I can only describe of like the scent of /water/, or that smell on streets after rain. It’s utterly beguiling to me and I haven’t found it in anything else and don’t know what it is. After comments here I’ve tried a few more F&T’s and held back commenting because I am a coward and didn’t like them quite so much but felt it was a little rude to those who took time to recommend them to say so. But ok, in hopes that someone might direct me in the direction of something else that might have the OP mystery ingredient I crave, here’s what I found! Patchouli: *odd*! I tried this as a wildcard and it’s like old paint on a fence. Having said that, I quite *like* old paint on a fence. It’s a very interesting snuff and I couldn’t possibly take it every day, but its oddity makes me want to try it again every week or so. Quite chemical, and not quite like the patchouli I remember from youth. Macouba: I tried a nasty plastic box of this from Molens a while back and hated it (to the point of having to blow it out) but the box was dry as sawdust. Having tried it now from F&T I definitely like this much more, but it doesn’t have that OP thing I’m looking for. I think I’ve learned from this experiment that anything with too much violet (or is it geranium?) I can only take in small doses and when I am feeling up to it. Not a dream snuff for me, unfortunately. Santa Domingo: still my second best F&T. It’s nice, but again I think had violet? It’s nice but again only an occasional snuff for me. Dark and doesn’t have that moist springy organic whoosh that I find in OP. So I am still looking for worthy F&T’s that have that mystery ingredient I found in Old Paris! It might be the base tobacco maybe, or a scent I can’t identify. I know it’s nearly impossible to write about scent, but I’m prepared to keep buying and trying in limited quantities! Can anyone suggest other F&T’s for me? Edit: to be honest I’d even feel better if someone could tell me they understand my ridiculous attempts at describing that scent in OP! Describing it as “water” is utterly bonkers I know!
Old Paris is scented with arrack, which is a spirit made from dates.
Just to clarify - arrack can be made from other fruits too but my understanding is that it is date arrack used in Old Paris.
Ah! Well I love dates and this *might* be a clue thank you. Next obvious question: what other snuffs have arrack!
none that I know of.
I actually think I know exactly what you mean with its smelling like “water”. I find Dholakia Black has that scent in spades. I know you’re looking for F&T, just my .02.
Thank goodness @horus92 I thought I was going mad. Is Dholakia Black the one that will blow my head off? I never smoked and have to take small pinches of mild snuff!
Dholakia Black is very moist so there aren’t any issues with it hitting your throat. I’d say it’s medium strength, it can give quite a buzz if you take multiple pinches but I guess that goes for most snuffs, a normal pinch doesn’t put me on the moon or anything. I’m not sure why I want to describe the scent as “water”, it’s like being next to a creek on a humid day that has a cattle farm upstream. Also I’ve noticed some variation over time, the first batch/tub I had was my favorite, the last one didn’t have it as much, but I know there’s a new batch in now so we’ll see.
this has been a great discussion so far. Thanks, all!
Thank you @horus92! You’ve said enough to make me add it to my next order And yes I think what you’re describing might be similar to my water thing!
Rehydrate the Molen’s Macouba and it becomes wonderful! Mine dried out, it was horrible. Then I added a piece of carrot, put in a drawer, and three days later it came back to life!
Change in formulation of Old Paris? The new OP I have is not as remembered. Much finer, not as dark and not the same deep rich flavour. Any thoughts? @oldparis
op ages. It ages noticeably.
Yes it does age well. (perhaps this is my mistake) The problem I have is no note of arrack at all and the finer grind than remembered.
Moved this discussion here: http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/7454/old-paris @Xander Well, we are definitely not on the same page concerning Old Paris. At least the older style. No way that I could compare it with Spanish Gem. Just sampled the batch sent from Wilsons and it reminds me of an SP or perhaps Morlaix. Remember OP as having quite a heavy flavour of dates which are not detected in the current formula. Have it on good authority that the supplier of Arrack was changed a couple years ago so this may explain the discrepancy. Would like input from @PhilipS @Abraxas and @Johnny on this topic. Again, for reference the description from Wilsons site: This blend, a favourite of Beau Brummel, has the strange wine-like quality of maturing during storage. This rich, full-bodied snuff, dark in colour and coarse in texture, is ideal for the moderate user who enjoys an occasional satisfying pinch.
Me too. The Old Paris I received was was an impostor and I’m disappointed because what I remembered about it was a dark medium grind with strong scent of leather and “rain” The kind of smell of fresh rain on a cobblestone street while in an old bookstore. It has a complicated scent profile that I like even though Im not a fan of the grind—too coarse.
I have a recipe for French Carotte that differs greatly in colour, grind and flavour from the Fribourg & Treyer version now made by Sharrow. It would have been a rappee, very black and coarse as suggested by Carotte – with a hint of arrack derived from the Cuba component. All the mixtures such as this one cross-reference the Primary Rappees, the recipes of which are not included here - but there is much use of Dutch strip’d leaf and ‘black, oily, sweet-smelling Virginia leaf’. It is a very straight forward and easy mixture of three primaries made up by the ‘cellar men’. There is also a Dutch Carotte.
French Carotte comprises of:
80 Best Common Rappee
60 Black Amersfoort
60 Cuba Coarse
26 Bay Salt liquor
This mixture by the London House Taddy & Co. does not call for sandalwood like the F&T version.
When did you last sample Old Paris? Was it prior to 1982? (The original Fribourg & Treyer business closed in December 1981. For many years thereafter the snuffs were made by J&H Wilsons and are now made by Wilsons of Sharrow). Also, in what sort of container did the snuff come in? Not a tap-tin I trust.