The review of the E.U tobacco products directive 2001, has options for, banning cross border tobacco sales, as well as for extending the ban on Snus to cover all smokeless tobacco products. The new directive is to be ratified by 2012. There are less alarming options also on the table but I fear the worst, given the E.U’s commitment to a tobacco free europe. There is currently a citizens consultation on this, for what it’s worth. http://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/consultations/tobacco\\_cons\\_01\\_en.htm

tobacco free equals historical illteracy. Illteracy isn’t defined as being unable to read but being unable to read in a functional manner. Sure they may know something about history but they clearly have no understanding of it.

Is there anything the EU doesn’t want to ban? How long will you Europeans put up with such a harebrained organization? EDIT: no one take offense that this statement please but it seems like every European hates the EU. Some acquaintances of mine in Germany constantly complain about it.

Have done a bit of reading around the WTO, etc at Uni. I fail to see how this is anything but a “Technical Barrier to Trade” an thus subject to WTO oversight. Then again, they seem to have a habit of imposing themselves on some countries more than others.

Everyone seems to forget that their goal is to reduce immigration through creating undesirable living situations.

If you think the demonstrations in France against austerity measures are something, wait till they try to take tobacco away from the UK.

We are in economic meltdown. Those things were written before the change of government in the UK. They will not lose millions in tax at this stage, if ever. Any measures taken will be lip-service and will probably increase taxation to cover all tobacco goods, snuff included. The UK will not lose tobacco and I doubt anywhere else in Europe will at this time.

The proposal is to extend the ban on SMOKELESS tobacco products, already in place in relation to some oral tobacco. There is no proposal to ban cigarettes, for the obvious reasons of taxation and big business interests. The E.U study of a couple of years ago found that smokeless products were a gateway for young people to be hooked into smoking. It furthermore found that there was no evidence that smokeless products could be used as cessation aids and found that a high percentage of smokeless users continued to smoke. I find these highly questionable findings but they are the basis on which the commission will draw up its revisions. The link below is a database of E.U risk assessments. ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/04…/scenihr_o_013.pdf

In previous rounds of regulation nations have been able to opt out on the grounds of, ‘traditional,’ use of certain tobacco products. Notably, Sweden was able to opt out of the ban on snus that was applied to the rest of the E.U. This however was only achieved through the creation of a popular movement to lobby the Swedish Govt.

I’d like to hear (read?) Roderick or Tim’s comments on this one.

@NelsonPipeClub: Me too.

/sigh. What a crock of shit. I’ll keep my hopes up for all of you, my snuffing brothers and sisters.

“Is there anything the EU doesn’t want to ban? How long will you Europeans put up with such a harebrained organization?” @John - In referendum after referendum Europeans have rejected the EU constitution. Even France and Holland rejected it. In 2005 Dutch voters, the most reliably-pro Europeans, threw out the constitution. It was rejected 61% to 39%. (Britain wasn’t even given the chance to reject it on a larger scale.) Despite the setbacks the President said that “the ratification process must continue because the reform of the European Union is important for citizens, for democracy and for transparency.” Got that? The reason the President tossed aside the verdicts of the electorate was for democracy. Unfortunately many people believe that the EU machinery is a democratic institution simply because a tiny number of the suffrage elect useless MEPs (Members of the European Parliament). However, what MEPs think or believe is, ultimately, irrelevant. Their presence merely serves to add credence to the illusion of a democratic institution and helps waste money. Even if they all voted, for example against a law, they can’t legally make a change. The un-elected faceless EU commission - not the Parliament - has sole right to present proposals for legislation, extensive powers to intervene in the deliberations of the other institutions and is empowered to ignore and overrule suggestions put to it by the toothless parliament.

“The E.U study of a couple of years ago found that smokeless products were a gateway for young people to be hooked into smoking. It furthermore found that there was no evidence that smokeless products could be used as cessation aids and found that a high percentage of smokeless users continued to smoke.” Khalid - good posts. Those are the spurious EU SCENIHR findings I came across too. The executive summary also says: “There are suggestions that nasal snuff use increases the risk for certain cancers, including oral cancer.” Suggestions indeed! Where is the evidence? Such a lot of nonsense.

Wow I’am so sick of gateway b.s… Also smokeless is the most sucessfull form of nicotine replacement. I love how it seems that if you let people have to much power they suddenly feel no problem pulling whatever lie they want from their arse.

Actually milk is the gateway to both cigarette and narcotic addiction. It is a proven fact that all smokers and junkies used milk first.

Can’t forget about the bread Nachman. It was the bread they got hooked on first, then someone told them the milk would help with their cotton mouth that the bread gave them.

I obviously don’t know too much about the EU to comment on much, but it does seem like all developed countries (including the US of course) are working to take away what little pleasures people have in their lives…

Boy, I sure do love fear-mongering. An asteroid might hit the earth too!

it will the question is when?

also how big? where? and so on.

There seems to be a hysteria around tobacco use, that is impervious to reason and that has an overwhelming force and momentum.

I think the root of it comes back to addiction. How many people don’t understand that addiction is not a one way street of just bad. That there are benifits. To many they don’t get that tobacco gives something to the user, that it isn’t just a formula of try then have to keep using. If you don’t get that it has posotives it seems very devilish (in a bad way)

My therapist who is giving me nothing but grief about my nicotine addiction doesn’t understand this. I’d much rather go to an earlier grave than give it up. A matter of quality rather than quantity of life.

Thanks for that Roderick, I will be interested to see how this plays out.

I agree mr snuffy pants. Life isn’t about how far you go. It’s about the experience.

“The talk of the tobacco show in Germany was the easing of restrictions on snuff and the lifting of the ban on snus in Europe. Nobody in the business is worried; on the contrary we are all very optimistic that the future for snuff is looking very healthy indeed.” Was this optimism based on anything concrete, or was it simply the hopeful beliefs of the gathered tobacco manufacturers ? I find it really hard to accept that there is an imminent relaxation of the snus ban in the current climate.

@Roderick “I also heard it from a couple of very reliable sources’ who should be in the know.” Tantalising, if not totally compelling. If tobacco de-regulation is on the cards for smokeless then some very peculiar bargains are being struck between the member states. I can’t wait to see the moral panic about smokeless tobacco in the media when Snus gets rolled out across Europe. It is not every day a new narcotic hits the high street.

I don´t think the comission will vote for option 2, to lift the Snus ban, but for option 3, to ban all oral tobacco products entirely. Simply because they never made a tobacco-friendly decision so far. And the cigarette industry doesn´t push it, quite the contrary. They know they have to make sacrifices to prevent the plain packaging issue. But there is a point that aims towards snuff as well: 6 Availability of tobacco products Option 3 aims for the ban of cross border (internet) sales and the ban of postal deliveries of tobacco products to consumers. More likely than option 1, which would leave things the way they are now. This whole consultation is pretty shady. You can send the commission your opinions about every single point and choose one of the options, but basically it has no impact, as the whole thing is not a poll.

@ Red Star. Option 3 has a broader scope than just oral tobacco, this would make sense given the dual use nature of a lot of snuffs. Lobbyists are making a fair bit of noise around Indian snuffs, many of which are used more often orally. I think the intention is to portray snuff as a ‘dirty foreign habit’ in the public imagination. I imagine, though I am not sure, that in exempting some forms of smokeless in the last round, there was a nod to multi-culturalism informing the decision. Certainly there were concerns for traditional and cultural tobacco use. The E.U does seem now to be having a root and branch re posing of what are European customs and values. I think it is clear that such concerns for multi-culturalism are no longer to to fore in policy makers minds. Indeed an attempt to synthesise a mono culture is more of the moment. I think it would need a lot of work to replace the popular view, that smokeless tobacco is something used by ‘the other’. It is also worth being mindful that snus is snuff, all be it prepared and marketed differently. In most of the E.U briefing documents I have read, snus is described as a moist snuff. I doubt that many E.U policy makers would make a meaningful distinction. “Option 3 - Ban on all types of smokeless tobacco products The ban on “snus” would be extended to all types of smokeless tobacco products.”

"The talk of the tobacco show in Germany was the easing of restrictions on snuff… " @Roderick - What are the current restrictions? “Nobody in the business is worried; on the contrary we are all very optimistic that the future for snuff is looking very healthy indeed.” Can you be more specific as to why there should be optimism? Where or what is the evidence for a healthy snuff future in Europe, or is it simply hearsay?

I like how no ones thought of this yet. The E.U. has got to throw a few bones soon apease the masses that are probably in part so grumpy due to a lack of nicotine. Seriously if you want me to start a riot take away my nicotine. Overly simplified and silly point made to illustrate the need for all governing bodies to appease the mass sometimes. You might say might makes right but then you didn’t finishing reading the prince which is sad because it’s a good book and it’s so short.

@ Micheltn, they are looking to ratify any changes to the tobacco directive in 2012. I imagine it will become clear which way the wind is blowing some time next year. I guess a roll out into the E.U market for Snus would take some time, maybe some product in counter top fridges by 2013/2014? Any guesses as to how expensive a can of snus will be in Tesco?

Just to back up Roderick a bit… the piece of the grapevine I’m tapped into is also optimistic of good news concerning the EU ban being lifted. I’m having a hard time deciding if that is merely hope speaking or based on hard evidence but the undercurrent of optimism is pretty strong.

it’s cause this year roderrick gets the cod crown (it’s the fish the secret leader of the E.U. wears to their secret meetings). So as fiscal king of the E.U. what do you think he’s going to do?

@Bigmick. Nice to hear about other optimistic voices. I struggle also to decide whether de-regulation is a realistic possibility. I am so used to hearing bad news these days.

We’ve just had the biggest spending cuts in history announced in the UK. One thing you can be sure of is that nothing thats taxable will be outlawed but I think we can anticipate parity with cigarettes at some point?

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but it seems that the optimism around a lifting of the snus ban was misplaced. We also now know, that the latest proposed tobacco directive was aiming at a blanket smokeless tobacco ban, although this met with some resistance within the European Commission itself.