Well just got out of the hospital after a week. Went to the doctor last week and they measured my blood oxygen which was very low and my heart rate high and promtly stuck an oxygen mask on me and plonked me in a wheelchair then an ambulance and straight to hospital. I’m feeling a lot better now after they put me on a course of anti-inflamitory steriods which I still have to take for another month and gradually come off but they have cleared out my lungs and apparently there is no lasting lung damage but they blame it on the snuff and want me to give it up. I took snuff the whole time I was in hospital quite openly and they were fine with that but the head lung specialist doctor seems to think anything unusual that might enter the lungs is a no-no for me now. I had all sorts of breathing tests, blood tests, speutum tests, a CT scan, constant blood pressure check etc, pretty much the works and they don’t know what happend for my lungs to clog up but I was in a pretty critical state so they are pointing the finger at snuff given that they seem to have no other explanation. They think that I had some kind of allergic reaction even though I told them I had been using snuff for more than a year before I had any problems and had not been using it when I was at my most ill. Also while recovering from the lung problem in hospital I increased my usage daily as I got to feeling better and I still continued to recover so I’m a bit confued about it all. Despite this they still see snuff as the problem. I personally don’t think that snuff was the problem, if anything I would think it would more likely to be the e-cig but like the doctors I really have no idea. I don’t know how this is going to play out but at present I have a lot of snuff I still want to use although I’m thinking of completely discarding all of the e-cig stuff which I didn’t have and didn’t really miss while in hospital but my 50g tin of Fields of Juniper was a welcome comfort while in hospital and helped me get through the boring days. I’ll just have to see how things go I guess. I wish after all of their tests they could have come to some kind of conclusive answer but my snuff use seemed to give them an easy scapegoat? Just seems unlucky for me that I got an unexplainable lung problem and that snuff has been branded the culprit. Definitely put a bit of a dampner on it all for me. I hadn’t previously been in hospital for something like 30 years and I have never been as ill as that ever so definitely going to have to re-evaluate things some.
Wow, hope you recover soon and they can determine the real causes of your problems. Agree with you that using something nasally could get into your lungs to cause a problem, but I’m no expert.
@I_snuff_therefore___ Good to see that you are back and that you are on the mend. It sounds like the docs don’t really know what happened and so are warning you off anything that could possibly exacerbate your problems - that does make sense. Although if you were taking snuff every day in hospital and your health improved that would seem to suggest that snuff is not the problem. I hope that this gets resolved for you and that you are able to continue enjoying snuff.
I gave up snuff cos it was giving me asthma, especially Rustica fine. I now use it very occasionally and am very careful with it.
Sounds to me like they are just using snuff as a scapegoat, in 300+ years of snuff history this has never happened before, I would mention that to them because they could be overlooking a serious health problem because they found an easy scapegoat.
Given that you have had a lung problem, I would have thought that vaping would be the more likely culprit - after all, that’s the one that actually involves breathing stuff in…
Sounds to me like they are just using snuff as a scapegoat, in 300+ years of snuff history this has never happened before, I would mention that to them because they could be overlooking a serious health problem because they found an easy scapegoat.
This was the first thing I told them but it fell of deaf ears. I also explained to them that snuff is only sniffed into the nose and is not inhaled although I’m sure a small amount does reach at least the top of the lungs. You can’t really explain to people that don’t use snuff so they are never going to be swayed. I did also express my concern that they would possibly overlook the real cause through being distracted with the snuff issue. I wonder now what would have happened if I had not openly divulged my snuff use. What would they have given as a reason then? I told them about the e-cig also but since I did not have it there at the time I think they just ignored that. Since comming home I’ve discovered that I am very averse now to the vapour from vaping so I packed up all the ecig stuff and probably will dispose of it all. I like my lungs clear as they are just now and even a single puff on the e-cig seems pretty horrible now but maybe it’s something to do with these steroid drugs but snuff still seems fine although I don’t seem to be as keen on some of the snuffs I was before. Again maybe the steroids are effecting this. To early to know. So I think it’s the end of vaping for me as a first step. Since I got on ok with the snuff in hospital along with these steroids then I think I will continue with that for now. I sure wish now that I was back to how I was before this lung thing started a couple of months back but maybe it’s time to heed the warning I got and at least ditch the vaping. I found the vaping very useful in helping me get completely off smoking but now that I’m a year or so clear of smoking I don’t think I need the vaping now anyhow. Be glad all of you that you haven’t had a similar problem and can freely enjoy your snuff. At my lowest point it really became clear to me how much energy we all normally have and maybe take for granted. I was basically turned into an invalid. Without adequate breathing there sure isn;t much you are capable of. It’s really a pretty crap thing when you can’t breath enough even to get up a single flight of stairs when a couple of months previously I had no such problem. Luckily I seem to be able to manage them now without any issue. One of the doctors who did a computerised lung test on me today actually said the difference to when I first was admitted to hospital and did the same test was like a miracle recovery. Really if I had not gotten treatment for this it could have been pretty terminal. I certainly had no more leeway in terms of breathing at my lowest point so definitely all a bit of a shock but I sure know the warning signs now and will get some help sooner if it happens again but I’m certainly hoping that it does not. Even if I’m ok tomorrow I will feel more optimistic about it I think but for now I’m defintitely taking no chances with any more vaping. I do think that possibly was the culprit. I will be getting another CT scan in a month or so and visiting the speacialist again and I suppose he will be hassling me about snuff again then but if I am well and still using snuff I will be happy with that and will be more convinced myself that it was something to do with the e-cig.
@I_snuff_therefore___ First, I am so very glad you’re on the mend. Take care of yourself. Second. They call it “The Practice of Medicine” for a reason. They still haven’t figured it out. Unless you discovered an entirely new and radical way of using snuff, I don’t know if that’s the lung tissue issue. I’d get a few more opinions if I were in the same boat. The vaping might be the culprit as no known research has been done on inhaling vaporized propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine, so laying off that might help. I just want you to get healthy, whatever that may take. Cheers, Daniel
thanks @chefdaniel and everyone. I am a bit bewildered by it all at the moment and looking forward to getting some good clear breathing days behind me again and discovering that snuff really wasn’t the problem. I don’t want to be spoiling that 300+ year record 8-X
This is anecdotal only, but it was true for me and others I have compared notes with. I smoked cigarettes from the age of 13 to 32. I never had a smoker’s cough until after I stopped - and then it took about a year before I stopped coughing, and another year after that before my singing voice was back to normal. It seemed as if my lungs were getting rid of all the accumulated crap from nearly two decades of cigarettes, and it took quite a long time for the process to work its way through.
Get well soon I_snuff_therefore___. Anecdotally: I have two assistants in the shop and both of them came down with serious lung issues this summer within a week of each other that put them down for several weeks each. They were both given antibiotics and steroids and both had the same symptoms. But one was diagnosed with allergic asthma and the other with bacterial pneumonia. Different doctors, different diagnoses. Glad you are getting better even though they don’t know just what triggered your pulmonary meltdown.
Though I’ve never been a heavy smoker, nor for a long time (I still smoke the odd cigarette, though) I have to agree with @Justin. Lungs take time to clean themselves, and it’s quite a strange deal that shows that our bodies are far from a perfect machine: they seem to need to get-used-to-not-being-used to smoke to realize they are full of debris. Another memory of lung-related issues that arises from the depths of my mind is the period of recovery I needed after being subjected to some mosh pits full of dry dust in suspension and a camping tent full of deodorant for three days back at Resurrection Fest 2012… I was sick like hell and coughing dust for four damned days and swore to Wotan high in Vallhalla that I’d never take a pick axe or be a miner! If you have ever worked, or lived, in an environment full of really fine particles like dust, fine sand (and that means REALLY finer that even Dholakia White… and separated, not in pinches) or fungal spores, it could be part of the problem… I think the docs got their consequences from the sputum test: if you coughed and spat after a couple of days of bedridden, heavy snuff use, I’m pretty sure some particles from your throat were to be found in your sputum, while as you haven’t vaped during your stay in the hospital, your throat and lungs were surely devoid of any trace of e-juice. Besides, it’s really easier to blame snuff… If you were a crusader against tobacco but not an expert (and I believe this doctors in particular were no experts in smokeless tobacco products), you would surely expect more harm to come from shredded tobacco plants in any shape (specially with the paranoia surrounding oral use of tobacco) than from an apparently harmless nicotine solution. I have a friend, a guy who is in a local metal band, that reacts badly to EVERY vapor or gaseous matter that isn’t air: even steam or dry ice (not to mention smoke) because of some problem with his lungs and ribcage. He really wants to smoke a reefah with “us guys”, but he simply can’t. His experience goes well with a theory of a doctor I heard a few months back in some Spanish TV channel: while vapor is indeed less harmful than smoke and it’s a way to reduce the dangers of nicotine, THC or any other smoked substance, it STILL caused some unease to our lungs, which are made for air (not water nor carbs or any other thing). So, from my own experiences, I think it’s something from your past life (smoking, inhaling noxious substances without noticing…) fired up with vaping what caused the problem, and not taking snuff. The medical profession is one of the most empirical ones, so, as @ChefDaniel said, they CAN be wrong! BUT, that said, I am no doctor, so I suggest you to follow their advice and quit every tobacco/nicotine product you’re currently using for some days (if you can), then repeat the test routine (if you have an scheduled revision, quit until that date). I’m pretty sure that their suspicions about snuff will end that way. And last, but not least, get well soon!
Good to hear that you’re getting better! Regarding the doctors’ opinions, it seems like a safe bet for them to recommend that you stop taking snuff. No downside for them, and, after all, in the absence of any other explanation, they might be right. If you’d told them you’d spent every morning sniffing flowers, they might have blamed the pollen.
People need to stop coming to tobacco forums for health concerns… No one here is a doctor but I’m certain everyone will say it has nothing to do with snuff. Even though we can’t examine you or prove anything at all. There’s a chance that snuff grains can make its way to you lung, normally I wouldn’t be concerned but considering you spent an entire week in the hospital I would probably listen to the doctors. A doctor might not know everything but to come to a tobacco forum with tobacco users and tobacco manufacturers just to get a health opinion after spending a week in the hospital being driven by an ambulance is crazy. If your oxygen levels went that low I would probably cut back nicotine all together, drink extra water and even if snuff isn’t the cause it still makes sense to avoid any further stimulation and risk.
A lot of folks come here because they have health concerns about smoking and wish to give up with the help of snuff as I did. I don’t see why this should stop? Even I am saying I don’t think that snuff was/is the problem. When the doctors can’t give you any clear answers then I still think you have to try and appraise the situation yourself as best you can and if there is any extra insights to be had from somewhere like here then I don’t see the problem in considering those. Remember I was using snuff in the hospital and getting better while doing so in fact it actually seemed to perk me up a bit. Maybe most drastically I should discard all my snuff along with the e-cigs but frankly I don’t wish to do that. I still wish to retain the enjoyment of the little pick me up that snuff provides but obviously this is a time of concern regarding it all. I’m just relaying my tale and I appreciate the general views and experiences expressed by other members and also the good wishes and am glad to say I made it through the night fairly well and I’m still using my snuffs but no longer any e-cig. I need to look over the medical release letter in a bit more detail at some stage but I did notice on glancing over it again that they state “it is thought that snuff is the cause of the hypersensitivity”, so I guess that means that they are not sure even about that. If I am going to have any further problems then I expect they will show pretty soon so if say in a weeks time I’m still ok and still using snuff then I think that will be enough to convince me that I am on the right path. If I do have any more problems then I think my only choice will be to call at least a temporary halt to snuff use to see how that goes. Either way I’m definitely finished with the e-cigs so I can discard that as a possible cause from now on. In the sputum tests they didn’t find anything of concern, even any snuff. I am hoping it is just the come down after 30 years of smoking and that the e-cig was the aggrivator. If I had not recovered fairly quickly in hospital then I would probably still be there so things are looking upwards again. Actually I am definitely feeling a lot better. Not out of the woods but defintiely these steroids seem to be helping. Definitely can feel energy returning. I have a new respect for Fields of Juniper also which was the only snuff I had for the whole week and it sufficed very well indeed.
Good luck pinning down a cause; when it comes to ‘hypersensitivity’ I think they mean you developed an allergy to–something, and they think it was the snuff. However, snuffs are scented with lots of essential oils. Whenever I snuff French Carrotte my wife almost immediately can tell from half-way across the room for instance. It’s not the particles of tobacco she’s detecting. Some people develop allergies to perfumes… Just saying your doctors couldn’t know everything you were exposing yourself to.
Good to hear youre on the mend. I remember you saying a while back you had the flu from hell. Must have been frightening the way it developed. My experience with doctors is i don’t feed them any lines to use. Keep quiet and if they ask if im a snuff user for instance then fair enough to mention it. I think they work under such time constraints that its human nature to adopt the most obvious in explanations.
Just back from a shopping trip and as always I went on my bicycle and I could definitely feel some power returning even though my leg muscles have shrank considerably from all the bed boundness. I lost a stone weight during it all but I’m actually quite happy about that. Chest is still a bit tight and still got a dry cough but I was able to get enough oxygen without to much problem and I hope this will get even better as the days pass. Definitely a bit freaky when your health goes haywire. Seems to come down to a lot of luck as to whether things come back together or not. Definitely feel a lot more mortal after something like that. @mouse. That was something I also wondered about snuff flavourings but since I rotate snuffs so much I would find it impossible to pin any one down and you are right they did say they thought it was some kind of allergic reaction. I do have a feeling that my lungs were somehow trying to coat themselves to defend against the e-cig vapour but it’s only a guess at the moment. I think in a week or so everything should become a bit clearer. Anyhow when out I came accross a couple of aquaintances and explained about the hospital thing and got a nagging from both about using both the e-cig and snuff. Both saying just ditch the lot but I’m sticking to my plan. In a weeks time I expect to be even better than now and still snuffing happily although I did buy some low strength nicotine gum to replace the e-cig for now. One suggested I should never have stopped smoking and I must admit that had crossed my mind but now that I’m feeling a bit better I’m more glad than ever that I no longer have any smoking cravings after a year of having quit but obviously the nicotine desire remains but nothing like when I smoked and snuff is about the right level. The doctors did question me about exposure to coal and paint and all sorts of things and other allergies of which I have none. They said that my symptoms were indicative of people with lung fibrosis but that I was to young for that really and the scan showed me to be clear thankfully. They also checked for TB and AIDS and all sorts but seems I’m all clear there too so worthwhile to know at least what I haven’t got. I’m sure it’s a very demanding role working in a hospital surrounded by sickness. Even the cleaner was telling my how he got affected by people being ill. I think they were pleasantly releaved when I showed signs of positive progress so I think it shows they are good people who genuinely care and strive to make people better but at the same time know they can’t always work miracles. In the end I was just another person on the conveyor of people passing in and out of that hospital bed. Anyhow they looked after me very well indeed as best they could and in a very friendly way and I am very grateful. It was actually a pretty good experience from that point of view.
“Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc” Can be translated as “After the event therefore because of the event”. It is a well known fallacy in logic. Known since the Greeks I suspect. Amazing how many medical practitioners make this error. Just because you took snuff before you had a lung problem does not entail that the snuff caused the lung problem.
Dr Harold Shipman murdered more than 200 of his patients in England (making him the world’s top serial killer). How many people have died of snuff? Does this mean that you are more likely to die by visiting your Doctor than by taking snuff? Of course, this type of reason is nonsense. “cum hoc ergo propter hoc” a statistical correlation does not imply a causal relation.