I noticed that this has been discussed one or two times before, but not for the past couple of years. Many of you have probably heard of clove cigarettes, known as “kretek” in Indonesia, where they were first created and (as far as I know) are still exclusively produced. There are hundreds of brands of kretek (no exaggeration), several of which are available internationally. The most famous is Djarum, but others include Sampoerna (now owned by Philip Morris), Gudang Garam and Bentoel (now owned by British American Tobacco). I bought some today, and have been trying out the different flavors of Djarums. They are really the only cigarette I would smoke, as they have a lovely, sweet and spicy flavor. In another topic, someone compared them to McChrystal’s clove snuff. I’m sure some of you are aware that, in the United States, clove cigarettes were effectively banned, along with all flavored cigarettes other than menthol. While allegedly a measure to protect children, who actually smoke regular and menthols much more than any flavored cigarette, this was clearly a move by American tobacco giants to edge out competitors, as they produce mostly plain and menthol cigarettes, whereas clove cigarettes, for example, are all imported. Djarum has gotten around this ban, however, by marketing their cigarettes as “cigars”. Basically, the “cigars” are just cigarettes, the only difference being that they seem to be wrapped differently (seemingly in tobacco leaf) and are slightly thicker; they even have cigarette-style filters, which makes the idea that they are actually cigars laughable. The World Trade Organization (WTO) listened to a complaint made by Indonesian tobacco companies and ruled that clove cigarettes are a “like product” to menthol cigarettes, so they say the United States should either ban menthols (not happening) or re-legalize cloves for equity’s sake. This isn’t to say that anything will change soon, as the United States regularly ignores international standards, but perhaps eventually. In the meantime, I’m reading all kinds of things on the internet about the effects of clove cigarettes on health. This has reminded me just how much bullshit there is floating around on the internet. People are saying things like that they contain fiberglass or that they will make you cough up blood, which is nonsense. There is the rare person, however, who does have a bad/allergic reaction to cloves inhaled into the lungs, so such people really ought to be careful (though how would you know until it happens to you?). According to Wikipedia, studies have suggested they are equivalent in health risk to normal cigarettes, and those sold in the West generally have the same tar/nicotine content as plain cigarettes (though you might want to check that out if you buy ones shipped direct from Indonesia). My experience is that I do feel something in my chest after smoking them and inhaling, though hopefully it’s just a placebo effect from hearing about it or else this is just a normal cigarette thing (I’m more of a pipe tobacco smoker, and don’t inhale at all). Someone I met said they are meant to be smoked like cigars, with the smoke only entering the mouth and not the lungs or even the nose. Perhaps she was right, in which case I would change my behavior. However, they really are meant to be inhaled, as their inventor intended them to be a cure for asthma (until he died of lung cancer), and probably the vast majority of Indonesians do so. Perhaps I could just alternate inhaling and not inhaling? I’d be curious to hear whether any of you have enjoyed/hated these, and whether you can confirm/deny the rumors of how they are for your health (both objectively and in terms of how they make you feel) from personal experience. I don’t think I could smoke them very often (I’ll stick with snuff, pipes and the occasional snus), but perhaps 1-2 a day at most would be alright.
I had tried Kretek and Bidis when I was younger, they were widely available in tobacco shops at the time. They always caused some sort of respiratory issue, a lot moreso than mainline cigarettes. They did taste and smell a lot better though. Either way they are not a good idea as clove oil is toxic to the liver and kidneys and you are sure to be inhaling some or absorbing some through a kretek…
I smoked Djarum cigarettes for a few years when in my 20’s, mainly as a one-a-day change from my menthol cigarettes. They did make my lungs seem a tad “heavy” after a cigarette, but I enjoyed the scent and the flavor on my lips.
Hmm…. Interesting comments on these cigarettes; I had no idea that clove oil was on the bad list – it’s not an uncommon food seasoning? I’ve had a pack of Djarum black on my desk at work for three months or so [Checks box – 4 left]. A friend of mine brought them for me knowing my fondness for unusual tobacco. To be fair I presumed that they were aimed squarely at the female market share, being black wrapped, slims, and very sweet. Although these have been alright they haven’t flown out of the box and I can’t see myself buying any of these for myself.
Clove cigarettes are very popular in the Netherlands, mainly due to the fact that a lot of Indonesians moved here at the time of the decolonisation. Back when I still smoked, I used to like kreteks quite a lot and in fact I always had one or two packs in stock, usually Djarum or Gudang Garam. (By the way, did you know the word ‘kretek’ is an onomatopoeia imitating the sound of the cigarettes burning?) The best filtered clove cigarettes, to my taste, were Gudang Garam. These were effectively banned in the Netherlands, allegedly due to the manufacturers’ refusal to print the legally required European health warnings on the package. However, people still ‘smuggle’ them from Indonesia and you can get them at Indonesian fairs every now and again. The best unfiltered kreteks are (were?) Wismilak, I think. They come in a green package. I don’t even know whether they still exist, I haven’t seen them for years. They probably were banned in the same way as Gudang Garam. The ‘something in the chest’ experienced after smoking kreteks can probably be attributed to the anodynic properties of clove oil (which is why it’s also used in dentistry). This was why their inventor, Haji Jamahri, basically created them in the first place: because it relieved (the symptoms of) his asthma. I’m not sure whether I subscribe to the notion of clove oil being toxic to the liver. (Although taken in sufficient quantities, anything can be toxic to the liver, which is why I avoid drinking large doses of water.) At any rate, I don’t think the clove oil in kretek smoke is any more toxic (to the liver) than cloves ingested by eating beef stew, gingerbread or Frisian clove cheese. My grandparents ate plenty of that stuff and lived to be ninety. In all probability, the tobacco will kill you before the cloves get a chance to wreak their havoc. This said, I’m not a doctor, so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. Which is why it is a good thing that ‘Gudang Garam’ means ‘Salt Warehouse’.
When i was i college(ie very poor) i would roll my own clove cigarettes with a tube injector, RYO, and ground cloves. I have enjoyed Djarum in the past, the Select being my favorite, but they are not something i can really make a habit of. I find if i’m not carefull with my drag, i tend to choke on the smoke much more frequently than with cigarettes.
“Or I could make a career from being blue; I could dress in black and read Camus, Smoke clove cigarettes and drink vermouth Like I was 17, That would be a scream…” -Magnetic Fields, “I Don’t Want To Get Over You”
You know that Djarum used to make roll your own clove tobacco. I really liked it. The consistency was similar to American spirits ribbon cut roll your own. I liked it a lot more then the ones they sold. It didn’t have the sweetness of the regular cloves. The one problem was that it came in a one pound size and although it was priced very well, it required a bit of change to get and I just don’t like cloves that much.
There was a brand of ryo clove tobacco which came in 4oz bags. It was called “Filtra”, I think. Was aged (it said on the pouch) and smelled about as sweet as bubble gum or Balsam Peru essential oil. Was good stuff. I had heard back in the day that one shouldn’t inhale clove cigs. I never really did- and never found the need to, with that much flavor found no need to. Supposedly one could get an accumulation of fluids in the lungs from them. Not sure if that was proven.
I live in Indonesia and have visited several kretek factories in my time here. Many of the brands are still hand-rolled, mainly because labor is so cheap here, so it’s not really any indication of a high quality product. Jacobin doesn’t mention the most traditional, expensive, and generally highly prized brand, Djie Sam Soe, which are produced without filters and with very few chemicals added, if any. They are also a lot fatter than the average kretek. Most Indonesian smokers have a regular brand and just smoke the Djie Sam Soe occasionally, as a treat. They are often rolled very tightly, so you have to massage and prepare them before smoking them. I do smoke them myself very occasionally, although I prefer a pipe – one local tobacconist prepares a pipe tobacco that uses a bit of Djie Sam Soe tobacco in it. Interesting, but not something I’d smoke more than once or twice.
I enjoy them every so often and I prefer the fatter, un-filtered smokes. I currently have a pk of WisniLaK opened. I get them from Indonesia. I have 4 brands on hand & store stem in army surplus ammo cans, which really keeps them fresh. Definitely not an every day smoke for me. I love cloves. =D>
Kreteks certainly have an interesting nicotine kick to them. I think they are one of those forms of tobacco that is a must try for any tobacco enthusiast. Some people love the taste, while others do not, however, they really are unique to the point that even if the are cigarettes (cigars in the U.S. since approximately 2009-2010ish) they need to be in their own category of smoking tobacco.
Kretek are okay-- they’ve always left a bit of a “greasy” film-like feeling in my mouth afterward though-- so I never really enjoyed them that much.
Damn, after going on this thread last week I have a hankering for some Kreteks. Well at least the CVS down the street sells them :).
I saw some comments about some brands being sweet, some not. The very sweet ones often have some saccharin dabbed on the filters. You can spot it because you taste the sweetness when you suck on one unlit. The old, classic brands don’t do it. The cloves still have some natural sweetness, but have moreof a numbing, anaestanaesthetic effect.
totally support and agree with your assessment. i haven’t had a negative experience but honestly haven’t smoked any other kind of cigarettes.
I tried these years ago. I can’t recall the brand, but they were cherry flavored. I “dissected” one out of curiosity and it had a strange cloth type lining under the paper. They made my chest hurt so I’ve steered clear of them since.