So it is in the news. California is in such a financial rut that the state government has added a vote to legalize weed and tax it to the ballot for the upcoming election. Of course the public is torn on wether or not it is a good idea. I am from Texas but live in L.A. now. I cannot believe that this state has the richest peolpe in the world living here yet it is the brokest state in the U.S. I for one am not a pot head but I think that it is a great idea to leagalize and tax weed. you are never going to get rid of it completely so why not make some money off it. Any one else agree or disagree? Personally I thing weed is no different than alcohol in fact it might even be a safer habit than getting wrecked and driving

People in my opinion seem to act in a more civilazed way when they are stoned than when they re drunk , and to be honest i really dont think weed is such a big deal, i have countless friends who have been smoking weed for years and they are respected persons in theirs job and the society. I used to smoke a couple times a month but i quit together with the cigs (dont know why but weed always make me crave cigarretes so…) some time ago. I am happy without cigs (very) so theres no more weed for me and i can perfectly live without it , but i sure miss the relaxing feeling sometimes

I agree weed is much less harmful than alcohol and not really that big of a deal. I too know people, some upper class that smoke it on a regular and are awesome people. They just enjoy a nice buzz now and again same as people who drink to get drunk do. Only difference is weed doesn’t make you a complete idiot when you indulge like alcohol does. Besides it is never going away they might as well tax it

I think everything should be decriminalized, but the problem with justifying pot legalization from the standpoint of taxation is that it’s the easiest of all euphoriants to DIY. I know there are some people who are planning on growing their own tobacco to get around this current fraud, but unless you have your own farm, you can’t grown it in sufficient quantity, and curing etc. is just too much of a pain to justify quantity. It will be very interesting to see how other states deal with having people in prison for doing something that’s perfectly legal in another state. I remember back when a lot of people were in jail for violating local statutes against gambling, and then economic forces proved irresistable. In any case, I think Bob Dylan was right in arguing that–given the current economic and political climate–everybody must get stoned. Just so I would not feel so all alone.

I think its weird that many of the same people that are pushing for tobacco to be completely prohibited are for legalization of pot. Isn’t that some sort of disconnect?

Following the money usually resolves such disconnects.

I was thinking the same thing Nachman…the evil satan plant makes people poo-poo themselves, but smoking weed is a-okay! I’ve nothing against weed, but they’ll probably tax it to such exorbitant levels that the illegal market will remain, I’m sure, just what a crappy double standard…

Trust me, I work in this kind of field and I can tell you with extremely high degree of certainty that illegality of most drugs has no bearing on the consumption. It only keeps a lot of otherwise unproductive police officers, parole officers, prison guards and the justice system needlesly employed and draining of our tax dollars and denies treatment to those who really need it. Just about everything (except maybe the anesthetic gasses and ketamine, few other exceptions as well) should be available over the counter at a “drug store” right next to the booze and cigarettes section. Then it should be taxed, enough to generate HUGE revenues, but not enough to raise the price so as to encourage a black market. Trust me, the legal drugs available now from prescription (like Oxy-Contin and Adderall) are EXTREMELY intoxicating and so easy to get from a loose prescribing doctor it’s not even funny. For every skid row junkie shooting heroin there are about 10 housewives and businessmen hopped up on that which their doc prescribes them. Sadly, it’s that easy, and it’s 100% legal. All you have to do is go around saying how flat, depressed you are, that you can’t concentrate and how much your back hurts. So many docs give this stuff out like candy that it won’t take long to get yourself flying higher than a moonshot. It’s not that docs are stupid. These meds have a role in helping a lot of people. The healthcare system usually has a genuine desire to help you, they pretty much take it on faith that “I have ADD” or “I have chronic pain”. And even testing for these things is so vague that someone either can fake it really well, or have enough naturally occurring arthritis after age 30-40 that you can get just about anything. So someone who is malicious and deliberately misrepresents their symptoms can very easily slip through and get what they want if they know what to say or how to behave because ultimately, your doctor is NOT a police officer and it is not their role to “bust” you. Sad… sad… sad… Sad! Should be OTC. All of it. And taxed so I wouldn’t have to be! Good for CA!!!

It is worse than a crime for government to persecute those involved in the cultivation and use of any G-d given plant. We should stand with the pro MJ faction, and they should stand with us, the tobacco faction. rant mode=on I am becoming sick of our government. Just sick of their agendas and political jockeying, that’s all it ever seems to amount to these days, jockeying for position, behind a bunch of lies. My sentiments cross all party lines. I am not an anarchist, I just hate being controlled and watched, manipulated, over-taxed, and lied to, under the premises of freedom and liberty. rant mode=off I very much hope that California passes this, it would be a landmark move against government interference in personal affairs.

Some valid points here

I hope they pass it too. The idea of marijuana being illegal is insane to me. I think that all drugs should be legal (controled yes! illegal no). Even drugs that I would say don’t even think about taking that it’s incredibly terrible and you’ll probably end up with no teeth and pimping yourselve out before you get killed for being the most annoying asshole that ever walked gods green earth. For two reasons cost to benefit. Law is the most ineffective way to deal with what comes down to a healthcare issue. Plus we’re “adults” let us make our own choices terrible or not (like we do anyways). Back to marijuna though I really see it as probably the most harmless drug possable. Alchool is worse. I would be unsafe in a kitchen if drunk, when I’ve been high as a kite in a kitchen the wrost thing that happens is I have to obsesse over what time I put what in what oven a little more then normal I certainly won’t cut anyones finger off. Another strange property of weed is it seems to be self limiting in the sense that the people it effects the most negativly seem to like it the least. Some people it helps myself included I’am a nut job rapid cycling bi polar person (often I won’t sleep for a day or two because my mind keeps thinking about useless stuff [like the ins and outs of corduroy pants]) pot and nicotine are the only two things that level me off with out having worse side effects (fuck Lithium, well for me. if it helps you rock on). Three great pro legalization things I’ve read (wish I rememebered more details about them) one was from a former police officer from seatle. His pro pot legalization arguement was to ask other police officers when was the last time they got in a physical fight with someone that they were arresting for marijuana, then to ask them when was the last time they were attacked by a drunk. Again I wish I had more information I read another pro legalization article where a doctor talked about how little harm he had seen in marijauna smokers then said he wouldn’t recomend smoking pot to anyone but then stated he also thought everyone should read more books and learn another language and compared pot to not reading more or learning a new language. The last point I read many years ago still a teenager then, the punishment for a crime should never be more socialy damaging then the crime itself. Then it went on to explain how much more harm having marijuana as an scheduled drug and the arrest involved damaged society then the drug itself. Sorry about the ranting. I hope it makes sense as I’am having one of the times that I’ve not been sleeping a lot and feeling extremely manic (wu-who) which should tell you I’ve not been smoking herb lately.

@nicola037 I don’t think I would call someome “malicious” who says what they need to say to get medication from their doctor, given that the government patronizingly requires adults to get “permission slips” from medical doctors before we can buy what we want. I WOULD call the law malicious, however. Attempting to control what I put into my body is like attempting to control what I read: you’re trying to control my mind, and I won’t play that game.

Is there a set date for the vote?

This has always been an interesting debate. To bob’s point about asking cops about fights with stoned people, I would ask cops when the last time they came upon a car accident fatality that involved a stoned driver and then the last time they came upon a DUI crash scene with fatalities. I am willing to bet the answer would be zero for stoned accidents and many for DUI. In fact, a friend of mine would always tell this joke about driving under the influence: A drunk driver will run a stop sign, but a stoned driver will sit at the intersection and wait for the stop sign to turn green. LOL

I think these are statistics I heard on a recent documentary: Over 700,000 people were incarcerated related to Marijana in 2001. 85% of them for possession, the remaining balance for sale/manufacture. No wonder our prison system is overcrowded. Legalize it.

LEGALIZE IT!!! Ps:Go to YOUTUBE and search for Rick Simpson and then tell me your opinion!!! Best wishes to all of you, Holonmax

to LHB What I mean by malicious is knowingly deceiving a physician by misrepresenting your symptoms or lying just to get these medications. Trust me, the role of these meds is greatly misunderstood, and those who seek opioids or stimulants are a very, very, very malicious bunch. They want to abuse them and are pushy, deceptive, manipulative or just plain evil, and or worse yet, because they want their insurance to pay for them, then they turn around and sell these medications for cash. When you go and lie to get these medications for purposes for which they were not intended, it is malicious. And the story about the poor old person dying of something denied pain meds and having to lie to get them are a bunch of trash. That hasn’t been the case in about 15 years. Now the opposite problem is happening… over-prescription. If most drugs werel OTC, regulated and taxed like tobacco and alcohol, the world would be a better place.

everyone i know in here in california already has a doctors card to buy weed as it is … a friend used to deal it but there was no point anymore as everyone has a card these days … the pot shops sell it for the same price without any of the risks of dealing it … i think here making out like bandits to be honest . also dont expect to see cafes like holland over here in california as the smoking laws apply to marijuana as well also expect to see the taxes raised all the time if it does become legal every time the state needs money which is always … then groups like marijuana freekids … marijuana free california MADS mother against stoned driving to pop up all wanting a cut of the tax money … studies coming out that marijauna is just as bad as cigarettes and on and on … why is it when there is a debate on any forum about marijauana it always turns into its not as bad as alcohol debate ?

By all means I hope and pray they legalize it. Then my next challenge will be convincing my wife to move to California, or at the very least vacation there SEVERAL times per annum. Since I live in PA even if CA legalizes it, it’ll be about another 150 years until PA gets on board. This commonwealth has a nasty habit of lingering in the Dark Ages. Seriously though, it’s about time it were legalized. It was criminalized thanks in GREAT part to William Randolph Hearst and his racist propaganda campaign of outright lies to protect his precious paper mill industry from cheaper superior hemp paper. It’s legalization is a decade or two overdue. I won’t hold my breath though. This country has a tendency to screw up every good idea that comes it’s way. Cali may make a step in the right direction, then the federal government will step in and completely ruin everything and turn a good idea into a complete mess. I have lost any and all faith in Washington ever doing what is smart, just, or right.

I would like to see it legalized. Even after seeing the old film “Reefer Madness” a few times.

Legalize for sure. I just simply can’t take alcohol like I used to. The body load from alcohol is what I can’t stand. Pot doesn’t do that for me and there’s no hangover IMO. I can count on one hand how many drinks I’ve had in the last year. As for pot…I stopped counting a decade ago. I am somewhat fearful that it’ll become more expensive than it currently is. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry in this country now. If it’s standardized and otherwise controlled I hope it goes the way of tobacco. In that sense I mean that it’s cheaper to buy tobacco than to grow it. Maybe cheaper is not the best word…it’s far simpler to just buy it. I’ve never grown my own weed though I’ve often thought about it. Just not the right time with kids and neighbors and all. It’s certainly less harmful to society than alcohol as stated above numerous times. I think that the drugs that are controlled in this country probably should remain as such for the most part. I agree in theory that everything should be legalized as eventually the “problems” would go away. I think the problem is w/ pot and everything else for that matter, that what’s good for the goose is not always good for the gander. There are some people that just plain can’t handle pot or hash or what have you. So we make a blanket law that is good for some but terrible for others. Me? I could drive cross country stoned to high heaven. Give me three Budweisers and I’m uncomfortable. Even at parties I’d prefer to smoke or eat pot than to drink. I normally abstain due to the social stigma but in MA now it’s a misdemeanor to have up to 1oz. Yeah! I don’t drive with it anymore though but I do have the occasional case of road-rage now…go figure. I’d surmise that the people that can be successful pot heads are far smaller than the number of people that would be considered burnouts. That’s probably why the stigma has stuck. Medical MJ is all good and well but I would have to be “malicious” if I went to my doctor about it. And from what I’ve read the prices that I’m getting now are about the same as the CA dispensaries are charging for the same strains…and my insurance is not paying a physician to boot. I think the “black market” for pot will always be there just like it is for smokes, etc. Question will be about quality and convenience. At $400 a zipper quality is important. And of course price. It wouldn’t do any good to make it too expensive. They’ll probably set it high so that “kids” can’t afford it…it’s all about the children, right? Heh. Like I said, the black market is so rooted in our society now…

@nicola037 I’m not going to drag this thread off topic anymore to argue about this, but my last word is that the undertreatment of chronic pain is STILL one of the major medical disasters in this country, and throughout the world. As an activist in the chronic pain community, that’s my perspective anyway. I would be very careful about judging people’s motives if I were you. Surgeons and oncologists who brag about never having “written” for a Schedule II narcotic are the malicious ones, if you ask me. Not to mention the law enforcement officials who interpose themselves between doctors and patients and use drug war thinking as the main criteria for determining which patients get which medications. Part of our current problems as tobacco users stem from the perception that WE are a malicious bunch, spreading disease and death wherever we go, and imposing costs on other people that they haven’t consented to bear. Which is mainly a load of crap. I certainly agree that if most drugs and plants were freely available for purchase that the world would be a much better place.

Reminds me of this article I have (Sorry, do not recall the source): “The anti tobacco movement is reaching new heights of audacity in their desire to curb personal freedom and turn law abiding citizens into criminals. As this newspaper article from the future shows, I will not go quietly. September 13, 2040 Residents of a quiet Boston neighborhood were stunned to learn of the arrest and imprisonment of Stephen Smith, an elderly neighbor, on charges of tobacco possession. Neighbors expressed shock and dismay at the news that this seemingly respectable senior citizen had, in fact, been a secret tobacco user for many years. “He seemed like such a nice old man”, said one neighbor who did not wish to be identified. “We never suspected he was a tobacco user. We thought he just smoked marijuana like the rest of us. I’m totally outraged when I think that he was putting the entire neighborhood at risk from his second hand tobacco smoke. How could he be so irresponsible? Everyone knows second hand tobacco smoke kills on contact.” Neighbors became suspicious when they noticed an odd smell emanating from his pipe one day. Apparently Smith had devised a clever scheme to hide his tobacco use, mixing judicious amounts of the illegal leaf with the high quality marijuana he was often seen smoking in his beloved briar pipes. According to sources, he had been stockpiling tobacco for several years prior to its outlawing in 2013, the same year marijuana was legalized by then president Nancy Pelosi as her first act in office. “It was the Latakia that tipped us off”, said an unnamed police source. “Nothing smells that bad. He kept putting more and more of it in his marijuana.” Police raided Smith’s home in the early morning, dragging the elderly man from his bed as he was still clutching his briar. As he was being stuffed into the back of the police cruiser, neighbors could hear him shouting, “You can have my tobacco when you can pry it from my cold, dead fingers!” If convicted, Smith, given his advanced age, would probably be able to avoid a lengthy prison sentence by voluntarily enrolling in a tobacco re-education program and remaining tobacco free thereafter. He would also have to register with the police as a Level 3 tobacco user, and avoid all contact with children. He would still, of course, be permitted to smoke as much pure marijuana as he likes.”

@Bart Reefer Madness is a cool movie

@ NJE03 i could well believe that happening and probably before 2040 a few weeks ago a pub landlord spent 10 days in prison for letting his customers smoke inside people raised around $15000 to free him … some of the brits on here probably heard that story

Seriously we all have, had, or still use weed. It’s not that unheard of. As far as I am concerned it’s safer than alcohol and a lot more fun

Let 'em smoke it, I’m going to pass though. Tried it, not ma thing…I’ll stick to tobacco. Nicotine is my drug of choice.

Hi to all, I would like you to see RUN FROM THE CURE video from WWW.PHOENIXTEARS.CA I Wish you all a nice evening, Holonmax

LHB I can see why the chronic pain community feels “undertreated”. Believe me, without disclosing private info I am quite an expert in this field; that and substance abuse as well. Opioids, especially CII’s but really any one of them over time will actually poison your body’s ability to sense pain and as doses are escalated with tolerance, the patient will become more and more dysphoric, more and more depressed, and they will suffer more and more pain! So actually treating with chronic C-II’s will more often than not INCREASE and not decrease people’s pain. Docs who refuse to use C-II’s are 99% of the time doing their patients a favor because the alternative is worse. Unfortunately, very few docs know about the other, non-opioid alternatives to pain control. So like a bunch of idiots they think “opiates=pain control”, and increase a dose to that effect, but it TOTALLY doesn’t work that way. You know a paitient is on chronic opiates because apart from having tiny pupils and never being able to take a crap, they are just miserable, depressed beyond depression and complaining of pain in corners of their body that you didn’t think possible. With regards to chronic pain, there are a small handful of people who will do well on opiates, but that is the exception, not the rule. It’s the fact that no one really knows how to use other means that leads to pain being undertreated, but the best thing that can be done is for a doctor to consider themselves allergic to prescribing narcotics unless 1) it is acute pain only for a few days or 2) patient is dying and you don’t care about overdose/tolerance. Again, most people respont VERY poorly to opioids. They hate them because they make them puke. The small handful that actually respond well and LIKE the effects you can tell from day 1 that they will be addicts. And then there is the endless parade of human debris that just lies about their pain so they can get enough Oxy-contin to kill a small village but choose to sell it to their addict buddies instead. The amount of resources devoted to enforcing this is totally out of proportion with the potential ill it causes society. Cannabis is actually quite harmful to the lung and the body. As is alcohol (not to lung, but everything else). And tobacco is equally horrible. But about the safest drug you could do long term is opiates. history abounds with opioid addicts who had a multi-decades long habit that brough about no bodily harm as long as their opiate source was clean and reliable, people like Hermann Goering, JFK, Abraham Lincoln’s wife, Rush Limbaugh, Betty Ford, Patrick Kennedy and many others etc, etc, etc. What a life. Should be over the counter and the money saved to lower my taxes and fund treatment. Studies show that every dollar spent in treatment for substance abuse actually saves 80% MORE than its cost in terms of cost to society. So if the government were to spend 100 billion dollars on substance abuse, they would SAVE 180 billion. Personally I think cannabis is MUCH more harmful than opiates, and only marginally more benign than alcohol, but not by much. But it should all be legal and taxed. The evidence is overwhelming. There are just too many interested parties. Illegality is far too lucrative for too many of the wrong people. OTC. OTC. OTC. Let’s turn it into a stadium chant. OTC! OTC! OTC!

Furthermore, cannabis dependence can potentially lead to Grateful Dead fandom, or, in the case of my cousin, longwinded and incoherent monologues about UFOs and his five favorite Pere Ubu albums.

@ kjoerup: LMAO ;~) I’m an old hippie…

@ kjoerup, NOmad I have undergone both inpatient and outpatient treatment for Grateful Dead fandom, and I regret to say that I had yet another slip this evening. Have you ever noticed that The Dead go very well with American Scotches, by the way? It would just be morally and aesthetically wrong to listen to “Workingman’s Dead” with a snootfull of Bordeaux or Rose of Sharrow.

@bigblue1 God knows I try, bigblue1, but I sit down intending just to listen to Jacktraw off “Europe 72” and then before I even know what hit me, it’s the whole “China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider” medley. One tune is too much, and the whole 3 records is not enough. I hope a Higher Powered Amplifier will restore me to sanity, but I’m not getting my hopes up. I tried tapering off with Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir solo projects, and even the fail-safe, New Riders of the Purple Sage special rapid taper, but thus far to no avail. I fear I’m destined to join the endless parade of Dead Heads who have proceeded me, riding on our “Ship of Fools” down to the “Dark Hollow.” IN the meantime, I might as well sign off with a hit of “Smokestack Lightenin’” now that I’ve gone this far and try again tomorrow.

There is only one cure for Gratefull dead addiction!!! Lots and lots and lots of Throbbing Gristle (the industrial band) and at least one of the off shot bands (coil is my band of choice). A good side of Meat Beat Manifesto and the Swans (any period). Once that starts to clean your bloodstream of the greatfull dead particals add in some Legndary Pink Dots, Yen Pox, and Sleep Chamber. After you start noticing some improvement. Add the bands Sand and Current 93 to your play list as well as Sterolab. One final thing to add. You know how in A.A. they have a mantra for helping them not drink something like take it one day at time help me know what I can change and what I can’t change. Well your new Mantra is Love is the greatest hippie band of all times and Aurthor Lee is cooler then Gerry Jarcia. I hope you can beat this serious problem.

@ bob I still occasionaly relapse into my Meat Beat Manifesto addiction, but I can assure you, my neighbors would much prefer my imbibing American Beauty than Storm the Studio or Actual Sounds and Voices. Arthur Lee is to Jerry Garcia what Toby Keith is to Gram Parsons.

Not at all. Arthur Lee is awesome. In fact I think I’ll put some Love on right now. Your neighbors obviously don’t know how awesome Meat Beat is. (I’am assuming Toby Keith isn’t that cool, I could be wrong don’t really know who he is.)

who is neighbors with Toby Keith???

I can quit anytime I want! *Clutches copy of 06-10-73 RFK show*

Think of the Children. The Gratefull dead may seem harmless but… It’s been a proven gateway band leading to things like Phish and even Primus. Listen to Chrome instead.

@LHB “New Riders of the Purple Sage” my god man does that bring back memories they say old habits die hard, at least in my case anyway. nod nod, wink wink ;~)

@bob Their have been numerous stories of high acheiving students who listened to Cumberland Blues just one time, dropped out of school, and went to work in a Kentucky coal mine Not to mention all the art history majors who heard Easy Wind, and quit school to become jack hammer operators and red eye whiskey drinkers. The Greatful Dead harmless? I should think not! @ NOmad I’ve been, snortin coke, smokin dope, Tryin to write a song Forgettin everything I know, till the next line comes along.

LHB don’t use the confusing arguement. Your arguement is like saying kittens are cuddly and furry. Kittens harmless? I should think not. Though that reminds me of the anti-pot ad I want to make. It starts with a normal old couple sitting around the man is reading the paper and the woman is knitting. Then the old lady says I think it’s time for us to take our medicine then the guy puts his glasses on top of his head and pulls a bong out from behind the couch they both smoke the bong then it skips ahead to the room being smoke filled and he says lets go for a drive. Then it jumps to them taking a drive and focuses in on the glasses on top of his head. Then voice over says what good is glacuma medicine if you forget your glass? Marijuana harmless???

Hahah!Very good, Bob!LOL

LOL