First off, I KNOW this is political but it DOES concern tobacco and people on our website.  Let me know if I need to delete anything because I’d like for the discussion to stay so I’ll clean up/delete anything you guys want me to in order to keep it up.

I have never been SO SERIOUS in considering moving out of COUNTRY!  I mean I am literally DISGUSTED AND SICKENED

BIG TOBACCO COMPANIES TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS, they snuck a law into a bill the other day and RYO businesses, the machines, and I THINK the loose tobacco but I’m not sure, are ILLEGAL IN THE US NOW.

I’m gonna guess this comment is WAY too political… I’ll leave it alone until the other mod take a look… unless of course you want to delete it yourself, transistor…

I’m gonna guess this comment is WAY too political… I’ll leave it alone until the other mod take a look… unless of course you want to delete it yourself, transistor…

*sigh* you’re probably right.  I’ve noticed more and more of my comments are getting deleted these days…
guess I’ll start being more careful.

its only the ryo machines in tobacco stores that will be banned … you will still be able to buy loose tobacco and make your own … no doubt the ryo pipe tobacco will be taxed the same as regular ryo tobacco soon  

 heres a article i found   …  http://www.goerie.com/article/20120707/NEWS02/307069913/New-law-angers-roll-your-own-cigarette-shops-customers

I no longer smoke, but my wife does. This is just one of many moves on RYO tobacco, started years ago with the first $24 dollar tax increase on RYO tobacco. Soon to be followed by a $24 dollar increase on pipe tobacco. welcome to the “I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore” club. The party actually started years ago so the appetizers are all gone by now.

I cannot justify a international move just now, but I do share your anger! So I order large amounts of whole leaf tobacco straight from the growers barns at around $10 a pound. This gives me a carton for about $5, and a feeling of at least not having to “submit” to the corporate manipulations.

BTW I am an American who is now prohibited to buy any form of processed tobacco, snus, snuff, ect., over the internet or thru the mail!

BTW this Government interference has a long history, started really with the 1791 “Whiskey Rebellion”.

Land of the free was pretty much an illusion. “Ignore the man behind the curtain” - Wizard of OZ

It was inevitable, today(7-9-2012) in Illinois cigarettes run 6 to 7 dollars a pack at convenient stores after the recent tax increase. The only way to stop the wave of people switching over to machine rolled from packaged smokes was to raise the cost of loose pre-cut tobacco. Last week I ordered 3 pounds of cured and fermented whole leaf tobacco and cut it up myself. A 6 oz can of bugler costs 37 dollars after taxes at my local Walmart. 3 lbs of whole leaf ran me 73 dollars after shipping. 2400 rollit papers ran almost 20 bucks from another website online. To really avoid taxes on RYO, now you need to do it the old pioneer way. A tad more work, but a bit satisfying once you’ve learned to work a whole leaf. Just be sure you are buying cured AND fermented. If it hasn’t been fermented, the ammonia is going to make the tobacco unsmokable. Fermenting is accomplished by dampening the leaf and keeping it real warm in a pile and allowing the ammonia to dissipate. My 100 dollar investment in tobacco and papers is going to last a long long time. At 5 dollars a .6 oz pack of bugler, I recoup my investment in only 3 weeks.

@jimmyb - Welcome to the whole leaf club! My take on curing differs a bit from yours, fermentation can be accomplished by stacking, but wetting is not recommended, natural fermentation takes place in the leaf during the hanging (curing) phase. Most important thing about good tobacco really is the curing. I have found that out by trial and error.

@Whalen - I’ve had my share of inexpensive cigars that reeked of ammonia, definitely not cured long enough to remove the nasty stuff. Why are you prohibited from buying tobacco products through the mail? I live in the US and order my cigars and the occasional chew and recently nasal snuff via the internet and get them thru all 3 major mail carriers, USPS, UPS and also Fedex.

Another tax on tobacco, nothing new there. I dont like it one bit but i think that if they can keep taxing it they will keep it legal. Still gives me incentive to snatch up what i can before they tax it more. I barely smoke at all but I’m finding myself shopping for pipe and twist tobacco with the rationale that even if I don’t use it or need it now, I might later or someone else will with whatever’s coming down the pike. I’m starting to really understand the TAD mentality.

My understanding of this bill is that it does not make anything illegal, but just makes the store machine made cigarettes taxed at the same level as pre-manufactured ones. I’m not totally sure as I only heard a brief blurb about it.

@Roderick, too right if the Yanks think they’ll get anything cheap over here, forget it!

Stefan

@Jimmyb - Maryland passed a law making it illegal to purchase by mail or by internet. Just like that!  They didn’t ask, they just did it!

@Jimmyb - Maryland passed a law making it illegal to purchase by mail or by internet. Just like that!  They didn’t ask, they just did it!

you got quite another political system and setting over there.

@Whalen Is it even possible to enforce that? I can’t see MD State Police devoting resources inspecting all mail (besides that would be unconstitional search and siezure w/o a warrant).

It is intended to force me to buy locally, so that the State taxation is assured, even though there are no vendors at all for snus. What it does is make me instantly hostile to State government, and forces me to circumvent these policies. I have begun buying all my gas, food, and goods out of state to “protest”. So far they have lost ten times what they tried to capture in state taxes. And the state licensed tobacconists, who lobbied for the bill, will never see a penny of my business.

A small hollow victory for me, but it at least makes me feel good to give them the slip.

@Xander - you are correct, it brings tax parity to RYO machine made cartons. Pipe tobacco for RYO is still taxed lower. That loop hole will be closed next, as the bill to accomplish this has been introduced into legislative consideration.

As of July 1 2012, Maryland doubled smokeless tax to 30% from 15%. I live less than 5 miles from West Virginia with a modest 7% tax.

Whole leaf tobacco remains untaxed and unregulated as for now. I seem to be acquiring quite a bit. Just wonderful examples of what tobacco leaf varieties are available, the Virginia Bright leaf is golden yellow and smells just like butterscotch. Three kinds of oriental. scary perfect fire cured, and strong aged Burley. Just beautiful leaf, I just recieved ten pounds of aged dark air cured for snuff and snus making.

@Whalen Is it even possible to enforce that? I can’t see MD State Police devoting resources inspecting all mail (besides that would be unconstitional search and siezure w/o a warrant).

Well that is a great question! And they have stretched resources as it is, the constitutional aspect should be interesting when challenged.

What it has done in reality is put all 50 states vendors on notice that it is prohibited by law. They just will not ship anything here now. So it works out great for the state, all they have to do is notify, and it is a done deal. International shipments are just beyond their ability to deal with, and “Theoretically” still possible! But who wants to take the chance, right?

If you were to order internationally and the package was marked stating it’s contents for customs purposes, law enforcement reading the label stating that it was an illegal product could possibly state that the illegal item was in “plain sight” and justify a seizure without a warrant… Not sure of the particulars of this and don’t claim to know anything of how mail is inspected, just a thought…

@Whalen a PO box in West Virginia ,for those inter national orders ? an Idea

question did I misunderstand this or is it saying there are stores that roll the cigs on site and sell them?

 And how to answer how mail is checked I think it’s done by crystal ball and not by visual inspection.

@bob Yes, there are/were tobacco stores that had cigarette rolling machines that could roll a carton of smokes in  minutes. Buy the tobacco, tubes in the store and rent the machines to make cigs. Now these stores will be taxed/classed as manufacturers and they must charge the same taxes as on “big tobacco” cigs.

oh then I have little idea as to why this is news. Frankily it sounds very very fair to tax this the same as other cigarettes where the same steps are taken just in diffrent places. And saying they are taxed the same as big tobacco brings up a question which it’s kind of scary that I would ask are all or almost all of the cigarettes I see at the grocery store all big tobacco? You know even the cheap and shitty off brands that people get more embarressed buying then if they were buying nudie mags? The cigarettes that taste like like smoked elmers glue are they big tobacco? Seriousily it wouldn’t suprise me to find out most of them are.

Yes, most of what you see in stores will be made by Lorrilard, RJR, or Phillip Morris/Altia, a few smaller companies may have a brand or two, but pretty much any nationally (US) recognized brand will likely be made by one of those three.

 Poor choice of words in “big tobacco” I should have said factory made cigs.

All those cowboys in the old Saturday matinees would roll over in their graves!

All those cowboys in the old Saturday matinees would roll over in their graves!

Yeah, but they wouldn’t be buying machine-rolled cigs from the city-slicker machine in the quicky-mart either.

@Whalen @jimmyb so what are use guys using to shred your whole leaf? Its my only real problem w/the process. 

@ Pot Poe I dampen my leaves so they don’t crumble while i"m slicing then and take out the stem, then I fold and roll them tight and use my kitchen scissors to slice the roll as thinly as possible. After that I chop thru the pile with my shears till it’s good enough for me to roll up. I keep my stash moist in a jar and pull enough for a day or so on a serving tray and roll it up as needed. I’ve found if I keep my cut up leaves dry, they tend to crumble and I have a bunch of dust at the bottom near the end of it.

@big mick in that case big tobacco is the right word for it. Though they own most of the rolling tobacco things too. So it doesn’t seem to suit them to raise the taxes on any of their products. Well except for the fact that if it’s taxed it’s less likeily the goverment will try to impede their sales in any really meaningfull manner. The good news is that now that this is being passed I can finaly get a job as a cigarette hand roller.

I used to use a pasta machine, one of those roller things that has slots for wide and thin noodles. Works great.

lol WOW this discussion blew up before I could get back online!

@jpsks yeah I guess I was confused because I live right by a business that is PACKED with those RYO machines and they had to close down… but I’ve read LOTS of these businesses are being forced outta business and it’s quite a riot right now…

I’m so disgusted with my country right now I can’t stand it.  And NO, I DO NOT SMOKE, but it’s the PRINCIPLE OF THE THING and the fact that they are basically FORCING US TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.  UGH.

It is intended to force me to buy locally, so that the State taxation is assured, even though there are no vendors at all for snus. What it does is make me instantly hostile to State government, and forces me to circumvent these policies. I have begun buying all my gas, food, and goods out of state to “protest”. So far they have lost ten times what they tried to capture in state taxes. And the state licensed tobacconists, who lobbied for the bill, will never see a penny of my business.

A small hollow victory for me, but it at least makes me feel good to give them the slip.

lol you sound just like me
Luckilly TN hasn’t stooped that low yet.  Can you believe that someone has the nerve to tell you what you can and can’t do?  (as far as tobacco and other things like that go)… it just blows my mind…

@Xander - you are correct, it brings tax parity to RYO machine made cartons. Pipe tobacco for RYO is still taxed lower. That loop hole will be closed next, as the bill to accomplish this has been introduced into legislative consideration.

As of July 1 2012, Maryland doubled smokeless tax to 30% from 15%. I live less than 5 miles from West Virginia with a modest 7% tax.

Whole leaf tobacco remains untaxed and unregulated as for now. I seem to be acquiring quite a bit. Just wonderful examples of what tobacco leaf varieties are available, the Virginia Bright leaf is golden yellow and smells just like butterscotch. Three kinds of oriental. scary perfect fire cured, and strong aged Burley. Just beautiful leaf, I just recieved ten pounds of aged dark air cured for snuff and snus making.

Hmmmmm FIVE MILES TO WV?  I’d look into getting a PO box… >;)

@Whalen a PO box in West Virginia ,for those inter national orders ? an Idea

DOH I recommended the same before I read your post!
great minds think alike eh?  Nah I think we’re just tobacco freaks

International orders are not a problem. They slip through just fine. West “by god”  Virginia  is my go too for everything else, who needs a P.O. Box when you hang out and brew copious amounts of beer and cider out of state! What else are friends for?

@transistor - I too share your outrage, and in my case they have pushed things way to far! But I am just too heavily armed to Act irrationally, I don’t want to give my position up that easily! I am waiting for that waskilly wabbit!

 Besides, I have a heart condition, so I have to be a bit more philosophical, and far less reactionary. Not my nature really, I am a Texan by birth, we have a history of reacting badly to ultimatums. I tend to Drink tax free, and my wife smokes tax free, that will have to do for now! Simple pleasures.

Someone will always be telling us all how to live, life is short, I suggest following your inner compass.

Someone will always be telling us all how to live, life is short,

And as Americans we will find a way to get around those pesky rules/laws/edicts.

@bigmick that’s the American way. Like it or not tobacco is a big part of our cultural heritage and so is freedom to do things that don’t interfere with the freedoms of others. Saying people can’t smoke in certain places makes sense with the issue of secondhand smoke, but otherwise tobacco from anywhere and in any from shouldn’t be an issue. Although if I’ve studied the constitution well enough the unfortunate reality is it does allow states to regulate trade within their borders. I was shopping on lil brown smoke shack where it says they can’t ship dark horse or Levi garett to my state (Michigan) so I do share some of this outrage, especially when I’m trying to buy AMERICAN MADE snuffs that are totally unavailable in my area.

Quik question, are there any place onlie that any of you guy recomend buying cured fermented whole leaf tobacco from? I live in Mississippi…thanks in advance Tattooer601

There are several, but I really have enjoyed the leaf from Whole Leaf Tobacco.

Also http://www.leafonly.com/index.php

International orders are not a problem. They slip through just fine. West “by god”  Virginia  is my go too for everything else, who needs a P.O. Box when you hang out and brew copious amounts of beer and cider out of state! What else are friends for?

@transistor - I too share your outrage, and in my case they have pushed things way to far! But I am just too heavily armed to Act irrationally, I don’t want to give my position up that easily! I am waiting for that waskilly wabbit!

 Besides, I have a heart condition, so I have to be a bit more philosophical, and far less reactionary. Not my nature really, I am a Texan by birth, we have a history of reacting badly to ultimatums. I tend to Drink tax free, and my wife smokes tax free, that will have to do for now! Simple pleasures.

Someone will always be telling us all how to live, life is short, I suggest following your inner compass.

Well said.  Sometimes it’s hard to think that way- patience certainly is a virtue, and maybe I too will learn it.  I guess it comes with age and I DO listen to what my elders tell me!  Thank you.

Took a five state beach trip last week. In South Carolina I encountered 4 different RYO stores suddenly shuttered. Tubes on one wall, bags of tobacco on the other wall, and high speed stuffing machines on the back wall… All closed on what was an open day, they were getting $23 a carton. Not any more apparently. I also went by Daughters and Ryan, those in the know remember what a quality product this crew introduced at one time, Ryan pioneered some high quality bagged tobacco, great styles and blending, They were also closed on a business day, that has me confused, because they just sell tobacco for carry out, and sad, because I needed some toasted Two Timer for blending. I found Rooster and Macaboy in North Carolina and wiped them out. Picked up some Railroad plain to round out the collection. Macaboy was dusty. The food lion stores in the Carolinas have 15 different American scotches, but the very same ones as West Virginia.