Im sorry but this is bullshit. Its as easy as with power comes responsibility. Look at the natives in the rain forest, sure they kill to eat but they are so few that they dont harm the eco system. We are just to many, and we can do great harm. All eco system are very fragile and can collapse if they are harmed. And I personally woudnt want to live in a world were animals extinct because of me or human kind. The idea just makes me sick, and also that people can be so indifferent makes me very sad. As far as the boxes go, im sure are nice and of great craftmanship and I appreciate your work. For me it was just misunderstanding and okay now. I still find it wierd that you didnt now about tigers but well everybody makes mistakes.
I don’t want the thread closed either so lets be civil and it’ll stay open. Thanks chaps!
I have been a member on many different forums, but this one I saw from the beginning was different. For the most part, I can come to expect maturity within posts. On most of the other forums (mainly video game) people would get attacked for far out reasons. The way Patrick was attacked on the last thread was infuriating to me. When he posted his new TripleTek, you could tell he clearly had no intentions whatsoever of disobeying animal rights. Even if the spoons were in fact made of real tiger bones, we have no way of knowing whether the tigers were killed for that purpose, or if they were scavanged from an already dead tiger. Taking such an aggressive stance and assuming that the tigers were killed for this purpose, without conclusive evidence, is unfair. Assuming that all snuff spoons come from naturally deceased tigers is also absurd. Are there people that poach tigers? Sure. Are there tigers that die of natural causes and their parts get used as they should? You bet. My point is, we don’t know where said bones came from unless we were in the jungle watching. I seriously doubt anyone here has had that experience, and if you have please share. I’m not trying to step on toes here, just point out that we can handle these situations in a more adult and unbiased fashion. Patrick, I’ll be ordering one for myself for Christmas! keep up the amazing work bud!
@mrmaroon I am glad to agree with you.
I ordered one as soon as I saw this post, actually. Can’t wait to get it. I love the work you do, Patrick. I would use your snuffboxes if they were made of people. HAHAHA. SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! Sorry…sick humour. I do love the boxes you make, and look forward to filling it with snuff.
Soilent Green is a good movie.
I think it’s wrong to exploit and kill anything. But I think we shouldn’t get over the top as we eat hamburgers and wear leather shoes. It’s already been agreed that these are not made of tigers, so it’s over now. I can see how he did not know, or think of it, as so much of our stuffs is animal derived. I love all animals, and I don’t think a tiger is per se more important than a cow. But this is all beating a dead horse now. But yeah, everyone has valid points, but it’s like peta believer discussing with a carnivore, we should come to an agreement over fueling differences.
I like them, and with things all cleared up, will order one in confidence. You are an artist, Patrick, and make a product for snuff takers…keep it up! The fact that you also researched and formed an apology shows character.
Thanks for the apology Patrick. The boxes are beautiful
"What do you mean we have no reason to display our animal nature? Our animal nature is what has gotten us this far. We want to further ourselves. We want to further our species. We lust, we get angry…all of these things are natural to us and should be praised, not suppressed. " Destroying the ancient Bamyan Buddhas in Afghanistan or attempted genocide in Rwanda makes no more difference to my personal survival than the extinction of a rare species of animal. But like John Donne such happenings diminish me because my concept of care and awareness is not limited to personal survival or gratification. Now can you in turn explain how exterminating the last remaining tigers on earth satisfies your lust, anger and instinct for survival. Is it, for example, a question of us or the tigers? Are we locked in a primeval struggle for survival with them? Rape and most murders, by the way, result from lust and anger. Unfortunately for you prohibitive laws, since the Code of Hammurabi, have been extant for thousands of years. These share common characteristics in attempting to discourage people from acting out their base impulses. For example if someone were to break into your parent’s home, kick your father to death and triumphantly rape your mother they are acting out impulses in violation of laws designed to protect your parents. Or someone might covet your snuffbox and, because he is bigger than you, punch your head in and simply take what he wants. Now you might praise such events as the result of base instinct, but most people are glad that society in general attempts to suppress such happenings. It is not animal nature that has progressed society beyond mere instinct for survival. If that was the case you might have moose on the moon or a penguin for your president. What has progressed mankind is called civilisation. This is based upon on communal understanding, sharing a common culture and common laws ostensibly applicable to all. Reasoning and morality are the hallmarks of social, political or technical development. Base instinct beyond mere survival is the antithesis of civilised society. Conservation is also necessary for large-scale human survival and is not the new PC concept you suggest. Farming, which replaced the nomadic hunter-gatherers, would never have taken place if people were so idiotic as to eat all that they reaped or kill all animals for food. Instead people conserved and so progressed from farming communities, to towns, to cities. Reason prevailed over your prized base instinct to consume or destroy all.
"I have been a member on many different forums, but this one I saw from the beginning was different. For the most part, I can come to expect maturity within posts. On most of the other forums (mainly video game) people would get attacked for far out reasons. The way Patrick was attacked on the last thread was infuriating to me. When he posted his new TripleTek, you could tell he clearly had no intentions whatsoever of disobeying animal rights. " Nothing to do with assuming anything. What Patrick was doing in advertising tiger bone snuff spoons is illegal in the USA. It’s as simple as that. Pointing out the illegality is hardly tantamount to an attack - no more so than pointing out to a driver that he is speeding when a speed camera is round the next bend. Fortunately he didn’t have to wait until someone from IFAW took notice.
Jesus what a shit-fest this has become. Yeah, he fucked up. But he apologized, and also stated that he’s trying to source a manmade spoon so there are no issues down the road. Give the man a break, and let’s move on. This is the snuffhouse, not the “let’s kick a fucker when he’s already apologized and then beat a goddamned dead horse into the ground” house.
All this bulldust about a tiger who died 30 years ago!!! What about all the elephants who had to die so that we can have pianos? What about the trillions of animals who must die every day so that we may have meat to eat. What about all the fish, birds, wild animals that get slaughtered daily. What about wild animals in zoos, captured for life without doing anything wrong? What about birds in SMALL cages to amuse their owners? Now why kick up such racket about a bloody tiger who died 30 years ago. Why did nobody complain about animal horns used to make snuff boxes? Nobody said anything about sharkteeth worn as amulets? What makes a tiger so special that we should have a whole thread about it? We talk about SNUFF…es en u ef ef. Let’s leave the tigers for the green people.
The spoons are probably not even tiger bone, that’s no longer the issue. As someone pointed out, tiger bone is far too valuable on the black market to be used for spoons. The issue is that some folks here think that killing endangered species for spoons or whatever trinket they fancy is just hunky-dory. There are laws and international treaties to prevent that sort of thing, though it persists illegally. Its truly sad that such attitudes exist among an educated populance. A quick google search leads me to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, which reports that: _It is estimated that there are between 5,000 and 7,400 wild tigers alive in the world today. That is only about 7% of the wild tiger population that existed a hundred years ago_Will they survive another 100 years?
Will we?
I think this thread should close. It’s not doing anyone any favours. It was civil until Snuffy decided stir things up. At the end of the day, humans are the animal that have caused the most destruction to planet Earth, and seeing that we are supposed to be intelligent, it is our responsibility to stop it and clear it up (just like this thread).
@ zonesix- Do we deserve to?
My immediate response would be no. We are parasites that do as we see fit. The problem is that there generally isn’t enough research into whether or not what we do actually is beneficial. Look at humanity. We are parasites. We take, we consume, we destroy, never for good. What’s the alternative? Mass suicide? Good luck with that. it would benefit the Earth in every way, but nobody’s willing to put down the remote and pick up the gun.
I’m going to agree with Pieter and sandy and say this thread has grown absurdly off-topic, and isn’t doing any one a bit of good. Evidently talking about environmental issues is touchy to some, just like talking about politics and religion. I think we need to get back to snuff and let Patrick have his apology… @onefortheroad, I didn’t think an apology was due, and people overreacted to this whole…issue… but that’s just my opinion.
People were rightly concerned about this subject combining as it does legality, morality, strong opinions and things that people hold dear. Patrick made a mistake and has apologised, he’s also stated the substance in question is not derived from Tigers. That really should be the end of it. Lets not have this closed, lets just let it drop and calm our tempers. There’s plenty I want to say to individual members but you know I am just going to forego that for the sake of some harmony. Is that, at least, something we could agree on?