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J

The mention of no religious discussion on another thread set me wondering. Are there any Masons out there? (Apart from me, that is.) Just about the only time I ever see anyone apart from me produce some snuff is at Masonic dinners… What put me on to this train of thought, by the way, is that one of the customs of English Freemasonry is that you don’t discuss religion or politics at Lodge Meetings!

You can read about my Lodge here - http://www.apollo357.com/index.php/about-apollo - which explains the numerical part of my screen name.

B

I would beat there are. I think one of their secrets is that tobacco is awesome. My local smoke shop was owned by a mason. Great guy by the way.

G

Umm, isn’t the first rule of Masonry that you don’t talk about Masonry?

Don’t you worry that some weird looking dude was just dispatched from London with poisoned darts and a blowgun to “silence” the transgressor revealing Lodge secrets?

V

@Geraldo why do you think he hasn’t responded?

H

I think you are confusing it with Fight Club. I was going to join the local lodge actually…but in backwater places like this, they openly break certain rules…it might as well be a church meeting except with beer, even in the 4 standard degrees. However the church thing is somewhat understandable depending on branch, like my grandfather who was 32nd degree Scottish Rite.

M

Had a member in the family, hardly a word about it though…

J

@Geraldo - no, actually it isn’t. It’s not a secret society, but a society with secrets. If you’re interested in the difference, then have a look here. It’s a post from my blog about the furore following the ‘shocking revelation’ that one of the bishops in the Church of England is a Mason, and I talk a bit about secrets, secrecy and public perceptions of Masonry.

B

I still want to make a comic book called Masonic Youth. Really it’s supposed to be funny but they would have powers based on masonic teachings and symbols. Yeah it’s a super hero comic.

J

Good title. You could have the Great Architect in charge of things, with his right-hand-man the All Seeing Eye doing strategy and the Senior and Junior Warden as enforcers. Not sure about the super-powers, though. Haven’t got any of those yet, I guess…

K

I think more of us here are Masons and Shriners than you would think , Past DeMolay also.

B

Sloth you read my notes on this didn’t you? Yeah even the people like me that aren’t Masons probably know more of them then is standard.

O

I’ve always been curious about the freemasons.  Even spent a bunch of time researching who/what they are and looked at websites for local masons.  Didn’t get the impression you could just walk in and join but would need someone to invite you.  I’ve never known any masons that I’m aware of and therefore have not been invited.

I think Tim at snuffstore may be a freemason. He still around?  I notice the snuffstore banner is gone?

T

Yep, the banner’s gone and he’s been banned.

X

@bob Check out the League of Extrodinary Gentelmen (the comic, not the movie) its very clever but in this the villains all have Masonic symbols.

B

That’s not too suprising. I’ve been meaning to check the comic out for a while…

X

Yeah its like a 19th century Avengers. If you are familiar with the imaginative literature of the era, its a real fun read.

B

I love their work so it’s seems like it would have to be awesome.

G

Hmmm.  Yeah, the Masons are just another social club, not a “secret society.”  Of course, that is what you want us to believe.

Next you are going to insist that the Girl Scouts AREN’T a secret paramilitary force of trained girl assassins/hit squad, but rather just some service/activity group for girls.

Think about it - the “Guides” scour/surveil all the neighborhoods everywhere under the innocent pretext of “selling cookies.”  They have uniforms, go to secret training weekends at fenced compounds in the woods, have secret symbols, handshakes, ranks…but you just go ahead and continue to proclaim their innocence. 

Or are the Guides somehow linked with the Masons?  I shudder when I consider  the depth of the conspiracy…

M

Don’t they put drugs in the cookies to help facilitate thier mind control agenda?

M

To become one, you need to know one. I have a lot of friends that are Masons. I was thinking about becoming one, but my Father would be spinning in his grave. He read a lot of stuff about Masons being in league with the Illuminati for control of the world. That they are cultish and so on. I don’t believe all that. I don’t think they are any worse than the Optimist club, Rotary club, Elk club, VFW, American legion, Knights of Columbus or many other men’s group and their Wives axillary. Of course if you are In the Knights of Columbus I don’t mean to offend. Lets not drag this into Religon.

edm

 

J

Wait , Tim’s been banned ? When and why did that happen ?

B

There is a masonic lodge or temple near me ,But I can’t get any of them to work for free.

D

I am a Traveling Man. Hello, Brother Sloth!

D

Very cool web page for Apollo! I’d love to come visit if I ever find myself with time to visit!

J

@onefortheroad - I don’t know if you’re in England or not, but certainly in England if you get in touch with Grand Lodge saying you want to join then they will put you in contact with a Lodge in your area.

@Xander - The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is an excellent series - I like Alan Moore’s stuff, in particular The Watchmen and V for Vendetta. The League… is a bit more frivolous than those, but great fun.

@DPadraig - any time you’re in the right part of England…

H

I was invited to join, but declined. The guy was really hurt by my decision and I hated that part. But I’m not a ‘joiner’, and if there is any weirdness to anything procedural then I’m down the road.
Joining Snuffhouse works for me, especially the part about keeping religion and politics out of the discussion.

W

I’m with @Jack here why has Tim been banned?

Stefan

B

I keep missing people getting banned.

J

i was going to ask the same questiion about tim  (  did i miss all the hub bub mmmmmmmmm ) 

@sloth357   are you a local boy ?

K

Mayhaps he was sharing secret info .

B

I once knew a girl that thought I had come up with the masons. I think that’s why I liked her, is she thought I was even more creative then I actualy am.

 

V

Aren’t freemasions supposed to save us from the New World Order or somthing?

B

actualy they are supposed to do good works and support the brotherhood of man. Or something like that. It’s actualy the band Ministry that is supposed to save us from the New World Order and they’re not doing a very good job of it. (ministry that is)

J

@jpsks I live in Brighton these days, but I’m from the Cotswolds originally and spent about twenty years in various parts of the Thames Valley. Any of that local to you?

O

@theatre   What’d we miss?  You just pulling our legs?

W

There’s a lot of different opinions about the masons, ranging from a harmless drinking club, to human sacrificing satanists. Personally I’ on the fence, but if their secrets are supposed to benefit everybody, then why keep it secret? I don’t see the point of secret societies, I once was in one believe it or not, and once I knew what it was about I wanted nothing to do with it.

Stefan

T

@onefortheroad

What, about Tim?

http://snuffhouse.org/profile/comments/236/NoseBag

(edit : the ‘BANNED’ sign has been taken away now)

Don’t know if he has a new profile maybe, I haven’t noticed anything though.

S

I see. Interesting…

J

@sloth357    you mentioned the league of gentlemen    " are you a local boy " is the catchphrase on that show i thought …

M

The one where they sell dubious meat? Where it’s not safe to be there if you’re not local? And the veterinarian ends up killing animals?

V

@bob tell me more about this ministry please?

B

they’re an industrial rock band and their singer/slash main guy is a jerk.

 

D

What is your beef with Al Jourgensen?

Ken

B

I have no beef with Al Jourgensen but he’s a jerk. I think he has said as much himself if I remember correctly.

V

I thought it was an actual ministry…

J

@jpsks That one went straight over my head, I’m afraid! I don’t watch much tv…

H

So, to stay semi on topic…does the rest of the masonic world see american freemasonry as a joke? That’s what I’ve heard. Where as it is supposed to be about bettering ones self, brotherhood, etc…, supposedly american lodges are mostly just mens social drinking clubs.

J

A friend of mine wanted me to join, but he said Id have to lie about my atheism, which I refused to do.  Ill just leave it be I guess.

X

@JohnnyFriday check out these guys: http://www.georgewashingtonunion.org/

J

@Harlequin - From an English perspective, it depends on which organisation you are talking about. The United Grand Lodge of England [UGLE] recognises a number of Grand Lodges in the USA, so certainly does not regard them as a joke, but it doesn’t recognise everyone… For example, the folks pointed out by @Xander definitely would be regarded as a joke by UGLE. However, these guys -  http://www.nymasons.org/ - definitely wouldn’t!

X

Wow, being non-discrimantory is a joke.

S

@sloth357 - Why do Freemasons have to believe in ‘a god’, if religion is a forbidden topic of discussion at meetings anyway?

B

I’am going to guess based off of other groups that have similar feelings. It’s the believe in a supreme being that is important not which supreme being is one reason I think. The other is kind of a silence speaks louder then words, and that God is inexplicable by nature. Talking about God and religion is kind of like breaking the fourth wall and additionaly it almost creates a situation where talking about Religion while doing the work in some strange way (my langauge skills fail me sometimes) implies that when you’re not talking about it’s not important. So that’s my guess. Again it comes from groups that seem like they may have been break off masonic groups. Though it’s a better secret then having to have sex with an ugly old person (yeah there is a secret society that has that as part of their central mystery.)

J

@bob - spot on. It’s belief in a supreme being that’s important, not which supreme being - you could very easily find Hindus, Moslems, Christians and Jews all in the same Lodge…

B

and some things you may never have heard of too.

X

Belief in a supreme being IS religion. People that follow the dictates of their own conscience aren’t welcome. This is why I have never joined. Probably why what should be a organization of universal fraternity is struggling with membership numbers.

H

That is the thing that kinda irked me and made me hesitant to join in the first place…well sort of anyway. You are supposed to swear in on a “holy book” but I am lead to believe that it must be one that they already have. So I wouldn’t likely be able to swear in on The Havamal which would be most appropriate in my case, or even something like the thelemic Book of the Law, which I would be comfortable with.

A

I was a mason for a spell when I was younger; most cops were asked to join at some point and my invitation came from my then boss, who I liked and respected. I wouldn’t say that I felt totally obliged to join but there was an element of that, as well as feeling flattered I suppose. I knew nothing whatsoever about it so didn’t really have any pre-conceptions. I found it to be very innocuous and really just a gentleman’s dining club with some ceremony attached. We used to meet in a central London military establishment connected to the special forces, which made for an impressive meeting place to say the least as we dined in the officer’s mess. I enjoyed the dining but the ceremonial aspect just didn’t suit my personality. The assumption is that you take various offices in the lodge, as you progress, but this involved learning loads of stuff and in general it just wasn’t for me. It always amuses me when people go on about it being sinister and what have you; I found it to be full of little old men doing ceremony based on the Old Testament. 

The ‘secrets’ are very misunderstood - they are just about how the ceremonies are conducted - not anything that impacts on life outside of Freemasonry, at least in my experience. Every so called secret can be found in the Old Testament. Unfortunately nothing about aliens, Area 51 or when the world might end. I would have stayed otherwise:)

K

@Snuffster: If you recived your 3rd degree you are still a Mason . Once a Mason always a Mason .

B

Crowley definatly was heavily influenced by masons. In fact the O.T.O. was considered masonic (just not by masons). Sometimes it will even make masons think you’re one of them.

A

@Kurtnose You are right, of course. I was a third. 

A

I have tried to read ‘Moonchild’ several times, half way is all I’ve ever managed. A lot of the Crowley myth was through his acute sense of self-publicity and the press, who in the early 20th century were keen to print paranormal stuff. He was contemporary with Conan-Doyle who did a lot to fuel the growing interest in seances and the like. Conan Doyle should have stuck to writing about Holmes and Watson; he famously came out in support of two little English girls who claimed to have seen fairies at the bottom of the garden and to have photographed them, which turned out, of course, to have been two kids messing about with some cardboard cut outs and a box Brownie. Silly old sod.

H

@bob the reasons snuffster used were the exact reasons Crowley broke away from the masons if my memory is right. They didn’t actually sink as deep into esoteric knowledge as everyone believed, so it was (to Little Sunshine) useless.

B

yeah that makes sense. Not to get too far into religion he’d probably feel the same way about the O.T.O. people I’ve met, they’re like Masons with more arrogance and less social skills (just the ones I’ve met so, not a big sampling [I just have to make fun of them cause well you would too]).

H

You want to meet people with personality? Meet a “real” Cthulhu Cultist from the sect lead by Venger Satanis. They are the most charismatic crazy people you will ever meet and they are awesome.

M

It’s not just anywhere that I find a conversation like this! Does this make anyone else think of The Golden Dawn (or is it Golden Dawn w/o the The? I forget)? I don’t have any association with them, but find it interesting.

H

Come on, that’s not even a question! You just can’t bring up “secret” societies and Crowley and NOT think of The Golden Dawn (of which many great minds of the time were members of). And I think the “the” depends on context.

M

Well I don’t know what you all are into. Personally I heard of The Golden Dawn after the Masons, Crowley, etc. Not that it would _surpris_e me if most of you on this thread are familiar with the organization. But I get your point.

A

The structure of the G.D organisation and various splinter groups was reputedly based on masonic lines which probably did neither organisation any favours. According to wikipedia most of these groups were dead and buried by the second world war. Possibly because magic doesn’t actually exist.

H

Actually the Golden Dawn still is going fairly strong.

A

As a regenerated version or uninterrupted? 

H

Hmm…hard for me to say without digging, but I am pretty sure The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn has remained unbroken since it began. Though anyone who knows more than me on the subject is more than welcome to correct me on that.

B

well if you ask them…

B

They say it is uninterupted. The basic thing with the Golden Dawn is it’s an interesting idea. They basically think that all forms of spiritual expression are valid and contain some truth. Then to make it all compatable they use hebrew kabal to tie everything together. I’ve experiemented with their system and I don’t say it has an objective truth to it, but it is a very interesting thing to try. It actualy makes it a lot easier to understand almost any religious writings or philosphy and it’s really makes you think that all religions worship the same God in diffrent ways. It also makes it very easy to keep ones own mind and thoughts in order. Though haveing said that I do think it’s a pretty straight line from their start to now. At the very least there are chains from now that go back from individual to individual that go back to their start. For example Isreali Reguardie who was Crowleys assistent brought the group to America. Though their idea is nothing new. To put it one way. If you practice something like yoga and worship Christ the yoga will make you better at worshiping Christ. Though no matter what you think of the Golden Dawn or the Masons a list of their memebers will show how much they have influenced you and the modern ways of thinking on many fronts. Also if for no other reason it’s interesting to look into their symbolisms because it will make Dracula a much deeper read and also let you see how pervy Yeats actualy was.

B

I have to add that the only secret society I’ve joined is this one the High and Holy Awesome Order of Snuff Sniffers. Or the H.H.A.O.S.S…

X

@bob You should consider joining the Mystic Order of Arachnid Vigilance. Its for all true followers of The Tick and seekers of the truth.

P

Spoon!!!

B

I should I really should. Remember that with incredible mustache comes incredible responsibility.

M

Yer lucky Bob! I always feel like my facial hair doesn’t look the best. Still I’d like to experiment with some wax.

B

I’ve been clean shaven for a while now. Safety Razors are the best.

M

I like my Merkur double edge, haven’t used a disposable for quite some time. But it’s not the easiest to find those blades locally.

J

The hotel industry in Hawaii is allowing goatee’s now so I just might be able to use some wax soon. No, I’m not a free mason but I did get invited to join the Sons of Hawaii biker club.

H

Masons, bikers, pretty much the same thing. lol

M

I’ve always been curious about the freemasons.  Even spent a bunch of time researching who/what they are and looked at websites for local masons.  Didn’t get the impression you could just walk in and join but would need someone to invite you. Go ahead and give it a try. Many lodges have dwindled down to a loyal few, and would be thrilled to pass on the tradition to a new generation. You meet great guys, do good works, and have a lot of weird stuff to play around with (ritual, legend, custom, etc). It’s just about the last old boy’s club left. That’s enough of a reason to man up and knock on their door.

A

Been in the army for 7 years and a mason for about a year and a half now. still waiting on my orders from #mistersnuff anyone in cali could spare me a small tin till mine gets here?

E

I have to add that the only secret society I’ve joined is this one the High and Holy Awesome Order of Snuff Sniffers. Or the H.H.A.O.S.S…

Bob! Remember the Sniffy Oath of Snuffer Silence! You’ve said far too much already.

B

I’am old enough to blather on. You would know that if you read the handbook.

D

@Abraxas “Possibly because magic doesn’t actually exist.” Careful with that stuff, some people’s entire belief system revolves around the antithesis of that statement. Some of the ‘secret societies’ that currently exist (and remain a secret) were formed so like-minded people could gather together and not fear judgement and persecution within their communities. In my opinion, it’s similar to this board. I’m sure that there are people on here that have to be very discrete with their tobacco use in their jobs/communities because there is such a stigma about it. That’s one of the reasons I love this board. People gathering together for nothing but the love of snuff and no other reason. *hugs*

A

@Dogwalla - good point. If there are any members who found my comment about magic not existing offensive then I apologise without reservation. It was a throw away line that was not meant to demean anyones beliefs in any way.

D

@Abraxas I wasn’t really trying to call you insensitive on it or anything, it’s just amazing how many different beliefs are out there and how lightly we have to tread. I just realized while reading your post that it’s like today’s 2012 apocalypse thing. I’m sure some people took offense at being ribbed about it EVERYWHERE, and probably really don’t want the entire media pointing and laughing at them today. Who knew my email about not having to come into work today could have actually been offensive. Who knew? Edit: I also think that this is a very dangerous thread. I’m sure assumptions have been drawn about many people on here and we’ve only skirted the subject of religion. Very, very scary thread…

E

I’am old enough to blather on. You would know that if you read the handbook.

Darn, I missed that page!

B

it should have arived in your mailbox by now we use special gnomes we don’t tell Abraxas about to deliver the handbook. Though we do come across this promblem from time to time, they can’t deliver to people who explicitily don’t believe in Limnal gnomes.

A

@Dogwalla - you’re right, we do have to tread carefully. It’s not that long ago where we didn’t have to worry about offending everyone with the odd unguarded remark, but those days are gone. You could probably get sued or sacked from a public service job these days by saying light sabres aren’t real and mortally offending some Jedi.

D

@abraxas lol…so true

B

I expect people not to share my believes. What shocks me is how if you’re open minded enough the crazy amount of cross over in believes that seem so wideily diffrent. Then again I think of believes as interpratations of the difficult questions. Plus it can be amazing who you can be friends with if you keep an open mind. Though if someone can’t handle you because you don’t confirm their believes it is probably best to stay the heck away from them.

R

Nope. I’m a Rotarian, though. We got any of those here?

C

ive always wanted to be a freemason im going to try to join the chapter in my city as soon as i get back into collage

B

I prefer expensive masons.

E

it should have arived in your mailbox by now we use special gnomes we don’t tell Abraxas about to deliver the handbook. Though we do come across this promblem from time to time, they can’t deliver to people who explicitily don’t believe in Limnal gnomes.

Lol, I’ll be on the lookout for the gnomes over the holidays.

S

Been thining about joining the craft for a while but dont have the time im a member of the orange order and that takes up enough time at the moment

J

Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of the Law. I saw a simple pewter snuff box on eBay with masonic symbols. I don’t know pretty much anything about them, but it looked cool and funky, so I kept an eye on it. Bidding went crazy, the kind of box that usually goes for $20-30 was getting bids for 90, 95, and still going up. So there must be some people out there with a passion for both masonry and snuff.

N

I have to agree with Nigel here, magic does not exist only science. “Magic” is merely undiscovered or misunderstood science.

H

@JakartaBoy …DWTW is the law of Thelema, not masonry. Different secret society all together. And as for the magic and science thing, I think thw cartoon Adventure Time summed it up well. Magic and science are two words and processes for the same thing. Science just has not caught up with the abilities of magic, and magic lacks the preciseness and reliability of science.

J

@JakartaBoy …DWTW is the law of Thelema, not masonry. Different secret society all together.

Yes, yes, I know. Still, there’s a certain similarity. Crowley himself went through a Masonic period. I’m not a Thelemite myself, but when I was at university, a friend whom we called “Bill the Magician” was a fervent practitioner. At the time, we considered him as a colourful eccentric, but the conversations I had with him remain with me decades later. I have read a lot of the books, but I’m not really disciplined or focussed enough for it to be anything more than a curiosity for me.

G

AF&AM Olin #226 Steward and Lodge Historian/Masonic Educational Committee

G

So, to stay semi on topic…does the rest of the masonic world see american freemasonry as a joke? That’s what I’ve heard. Where as it is supposed to be about bettering ones self, brotherhood, etc…, supposedly american lodges are mostly just mens social drinking clubs.

Our Lodge is not a joke good and strict our way and open since Civil War – a number of snuffers among us too

G

@JakartaBoy …DWTW is the law of Thelema, not masonry. Different secret society all together.

Yes, yes, I know. Still, there’s a certain similarity. Crowley himself went through a Masonic period. I’m not a Thelemite myself, but when I was at university, a friend whom we called “Bill the Magician” was a fervent practitioner. At the time, we considered him as a colourful eccentric, but the conversations I had with him remain with me decades later. I have read a lot of the books, but I’m not really disciplined or focussed enough for it to be anything more than a curiosity for me.

Aleister Crowley was a clandestine Mason— not that I have any particular like or dislike for the man— actually learned a lot from Magick IV and still reference it from time-to-time (777 correspondences) but it has absolutely nothing to do with my Masonry. AE Waite is probably more so “Masonic” — as was his Golden Dawn Tarot with what’s-her-name the artist (can’t remember at this point) — more Masonic symbolism there than what with Crowley. Understand that “occult” simply means “secret;” and that’s truly all that is shared betwixt the two… However, the basis of Freemasonry is the symbols and teachings and truths of ALL religions/magicks, etc… rolled into one for those who believe… that’s all… Therefore, you will constantly see shared symbols and so on because well… let’s face it… the symbols are timeless-- organizations are NOT.

J

— as was his Golden Dawn Tarot with what’s-her-name the artist

Lady Frieda Harris.

G

Correct sir – could not remember to save my life.

G

I have to agree with Nigel here, magic does not exist only science. “Magic” is merely undiscovered or misunderstood science.

“Magick” is truly the underlying principle(s) of many of the science(s) we use/have today. I see the two as dovetailed— most especially in the nano-techs and those damned hadon colliders haha— seriously-- there is stage show magic and then “magick” (Thelema, Golden Dawn, etc…) — magick is merely psychology with a dose of reason and symbology— much different than pulling rabbits from hats; but, I simply wished to point out the difference. “Magick” simply means to employ one’s will to reach a desired end.

H

I meant no insult to your craft, General. Perhaps it has something to do with my location (way out in the boonies) that causes me to get that impression. As for Crowley, once he had the Book of the Law channeled and written he really dropped all other groups and practices that were not directly related because he saw them as only small pieces of what Thelema could accomplish as a whole. I don’t agree with everything he said, but Crowley has influenced me greatly in my life and I continue to hold him and his work in high regard.

G

Oh no, I didn’t mean you’d offended me in any way at all. I just mentioned these things because of the prevalent belief among many that Freemasonry is a “system” or “religion” or what have you… Truly, Freemasonry is a fraternity… with a treasure trove of symbols – the symbols that define the knowable universe. But it’s not a system as the others are. They all have initiatory structures but to accomplish much different aims/ends than that of Masonry. As I said of Crowley, I don’t feel one way or the other.

H

I found the following post stagnating in my “Leave a Comment” box. It must have been in there for weeks: Freemasonry is not a deep, dark secret; but it does maintain many secrets. Freemasons do not ACTIVELY RECRUIT, but are ready to answer basic questions from anybody who has a genuine interest. 32° Lodge 910.

H

@JohnnyFriday … The whole philosophy of Freemasonry is that we are all workers answerable to a “Grand Master” (whatever your personal perception of The Supreme Being is.) As you can see from my previous post, if your friend was trying to recruit you, he wasn’t a very good Freemason.

T

@ HowdyDave Hi, I’m a FreeMason of the UGLE. My FIRST EVER contact with snuff came at a Lodge meeting, when I was offered to partake! I declined the kind invitation at the time, but it sparked my interest. The next day I bought my first tine of Gaworths ‘Cherry’. I’M a non-smoker, so I hadn’t got a clue how to choose a snuff…

G

@howdydave @termcon Hello Brothers… SD, Olin #226, AF&AM here

J

@Termcon Welcome! I’m also UGLE. Where did you encounter the Masonic snuffer? (I am wondering if it was me!)

N

I also found the following post stagnating in my “Leave a Comment” box.craving for the way, the truth and the life… Let we see what mean Freemasonry maintain many secrets Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school , but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: “Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them” Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries" the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis, in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe! Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is “as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun.” Thus Freemasonry is, as granted, a mystery-religion, quite different, separate, and alien to the Christian faith. This is shown without any doubt by the fact that it possesses its own temples with altars, which are characterized by prominent teachers as “workshops which cannot have less history and holiness than the Church” and as temples of virtue and wisdom where the Supreme Being is worshipped and the truth is taught. It possesses its own religious ceremonies, such as the ceremony of adoption or the masonic baptism, the ceremony of conjugal acknowledgement or the masonic marriage, the masonic memorial service, the consecration of the masonic temple, and so on. It possesses its own initiations, its own ceremonial ritual, its own hierarchical order and a definite discipline. As may be concluded from the masonic agapes and from the feasting of the winter and summer solstices with religious meals and general rejoicings, it is a physiolatric religion. It is true that it may seem at first that Freemasonry can be reconciled with every other religion, because it is not interested directly in the religion to which its initiates belong. This is, however, explained by its syncretistic character and proves that in this point also it is an offspring and a continuation of ancient idolatrous mysteries which accepted for initiation worshippers of all gods. But as the mystery religions, in spite of the apparent spirit of tolerance and acceptance of foreign gods, lead to a syncretism which undermined and gradually shook confidence in other religions, thus Freemasonry today, which seeks to embrace in itself gradually all mankind and which promises to give moral perfection and knowledge of truth, is lifting itself to the position of a kind of super-religion, looking on all religions (without excepting Christianity) as inferior to itself. Thus it develops in its initiates the idea that only in masonic lodges is performed the shaping and the smoothing of the unsmoothed and unhewn stone. And the fact alone that Freemasonry creates a brotherhood excluding all other brotherhoods outside it (which are considered by Freemasonry as “uninstructed”, even when they are Christian) proves clearly its pretensions to be a super-religion. This means that by masonic initiation, a Christian becomes a brother of the Muslim, the Buddhist, or any kind of rationalist, while the Christian not initiated in Freemasonry becomes to him an outsider. On the other hand, Freemasonry in prominently exalting knowledge and in helping free research as “putting no limit in the search of truth” (according to its rituals and constitution), and more than this by adopting the so-called natural ethic, shows itself in this sense to be in sharp contradiction with the Christian religion. For the Christian religion exalts faith above all, confining human reason to the limits traced by Divine Revelation and leading to holiness through the supernatural action of grace. In other words, which Christianity, as a religion of Revelation, possessing its rational and superrational dogmas and truths, asks for faith first, and grounds its moral structure on the super-natural Divine Grace, Freemasonry has only natural truth and brings to the knowledge of its initiates free thinking and investigation through reason only. It bases its moral structure only on the natural forces of man, and has only natural aims. Thus, the incompatible contradiction between Christianity and Freemasonry is quite clear. It is natural that various Churches of other denominations have taken a stand against Freemasonry. Not only has the Western Church branded for its own reasons the masonic movement by numerous Papal encyclicals, but Lutheran, Methodist and Presbyterian communities have also declared it to be incompatible with Christianity. Much more has the Orthodox Catholic Church, maintaining in its integrity the treasure of Christian faith proclaimed against it every time that the question of Freemasonry has been raised. Recently, the Inter-Orthodox Commission which met on Mount Athos and in which the representatives of all the Autocephalous Orthodox Churches took part, has characterized Freemasonry as a “false and anti-Christian system”. The assembly of the Bishops of the Church of Greece in the above mentioned session heard with relief and accepted the following conclusions which were drawn from the investigations and discussions by its President His Grace Archbishop Chrysostom of Athens: "Freemasonry cannot be at all compatible with Christianity as far as it is a secret organization, acting and teaching in mystery and secret and deifying rationalism. Freemasonry accepts as its members not only Christians, but also Jews and Muslims. Consequently clergymen cannot be permitted to take part in this association. I consider as worthy of degradation every clergyman who does so. It is necessary to urge upon all who entered it without due thought and without examining what Freemasonry is, to sever all connections with it, for Christianity alone is the religion which teaches absolute truth and fulfills the religious and moral needs of men. Unanimously and with one voice all the Bishops of the Church of Greece have approved what was said, and we declare that all the faithful children of the Church must stand apart from Freemasonry. With unshaken faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ “in whom we have our redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our sins, according to the riches of His Grace, whereby He abounds to us in all wisdom and prudence” (Ephes. 1, 7-9) possessing the truth revealed by Him and preached by the Apostles, “not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in the partaking in the Divine Sacraments through which we are sanctified and saved by eternal life, we must not fall from the grace of Christ by becoming partakers of other mysteries. It is not lawful to belong at the same time to Christ and to search for redemption and moral perfection outside Him. For these reasons true Christianity is incompatible with Freemasonry. " Therefore, all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Savior which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values. The Assembly of the Bishops of the Church of Greece expects this particularly and with love from the initiates of the lodges, being convinced that most of them have received masonic initiation not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion, but on the contrary from ignorance, thinking that they had done nothing contrary to the faith of their fathers. Recommending them to the sympathy, and in no wise to the hostility or hatred of the faithful children of the Church, the Assembly of the Bishops calls them to pray with her from the heart in Christian love, that the οne Lord Jesus Christ “the way, the truth and the life” may illumine and return to the truth who in ignorance have gone astray.” St. Nectarios Educational Series, No. 22** Freemasonry: Official Statement of the Church of Greece (1933)**

M

My great grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason, in Memphis, TN. I inherited all his medals, papers, badges, a fancy ceremonial sword, many with K.T.( Knight’s Templar, I assume) emblems. I don’t know anything about it other than it is supposedly a secret society.

L

M.M. St-Andtew’s 560 UGLE in the Province of Ontario.

J

@LeNezzz Nice to meet you! The Grand Lodge website suggests that you are in Ottowa. Do you conduct meetings in English or French?

L

English, though many of our members speak French, as I and we have many Lebanese members as well.

G

I issued a demit two weeks ago… There, that should put some life into this thread…

M

I issued a demit two weeks ago… There, that should put some life into this thread…

I’ll start–what’s a ‘demit’?

I

Seems to be a word for quit.

F

its a resignation basically.

J

It’s an American term, so I am somewhat confused by it. @general_desaix do you mean that you have resigned or that your lodge has ejected someone?

G

It’s an American term, so I am somewhat confused by it. @general_desaix do you mean that you have resigned or that your lodge has ejected someone?

one issues a “demit” when they no longer wish to associate. it’s the term used all over Freemasonry, mate. I’ve issued a demit for myself, yes.

J

So why have you decided to resign?

T

I quite like the idea of fraternal societies and I belong to a few (strictly unofficial) ones myself I suppose, centred on friendships gained by mutual hobbies etc. Yet I loathe and detest a ‘committee’ and usually run screaming from anything resembling one.

J

I loathe and detest a ‘committee’ and usually run screaming from anything resembling one.

Very sensible! Some people thrive on that sort of thing, and I am very grateful to them, but personally I also avoid committees when at all possible. Bad for the blood pressure.

F

What is the definition of a camel? A camel is actually a race horse that was designed and put together by a committee. If you have sat on a sufficient number of committees, you will understand this. If you don’t understand this, count your blessings. You are a fortunate person.

F

I would never join a club that would have me as a member.

Yes. Of course. But would you join a club that would not have you as a member. I would. Just kidding, @Lunecat.

K

32 Degree Mason I was a DeMolay when i was young and have been a Shriner for forty years , And have helped twelve Burned and or Crippled Kids get into Shriners Hospitals It’s free to them and thats what it’s all about ! Helping Others that otherwise can;t help themselves because of the lack of money ! Every Child deserves thr best treatment they can get ! JOIN and Help !

L

To demit is not to resign. One is still a Mason if they chose to demit, it rather makes you a free-agent. Typically a Mason will demit if his lodge is about to go dark, moves and seeks to join a lodge without having to pay the extra dues of an affiliation.

T

if his lodge is about to go dark

Sounds a bit sinister, is it like being seduced by the Dark Side Of The Force?

J

L

Hehehe… no no. “going dark” means that the lodge no longer complies with the necessary criteria to operate. Most often this is by surrendering their charter due to lack of membership. I suspect that “going dark” is due to the three lesser lights no longer being lit. This is all information which can be found on the net and not secretive in any way.

A

I happen to be a traveling man

G

@LeNezzz is precisely spot on and that is what mine involves.

X

I’m part of the Discordic Disorder of the Mad Chao cabal D:.D:.M:.C:. & the Brotherhood of Severity B:.S:. Both Quasi-Masonic groups.

G

“Quasi” is not Masonic mate. Not at all. That’s called clandestine.

U

Would there be a reason why when my biological great grandfather passed away that his masonic brothers came and confiscated his masonic reading material?

G

No idea why that’d happen-- most likely mate they just wanted to take it and put in the Lodge-- very common. It’s probably fun to speculate-- but there’s really nothing that couldn’t be read at the local library mate.

U

That’s what I thought. Maybe he just borrowed them from the lodge.

N

Yeah, they tried to discover the truth behind the magnificent lies… ο νοων νοειτω

G

It’s done often because Lodges need the books. The “codebooks” cannot be read by anyone, anyhow- no truth(s), no lie(s) to be found – always funny to me that so very little goes on but so very much is said, haha.

N

one more joke is when someone don’t believe in existence of truth or lie inside freaksory

G

I’ve never met anyone like that in Freemasonry-- only “occult” types believe in that moral-relevancy tripe.

N

more occult from a freakson and you die :))

G

Freemasonry unveiled (Isis looks much sexier unveiled though, haha): We don’t say much about it because, simply put, it’s too much a bore to those who ask-- so after a while, it becomes apparent that it’s much easier to say, “it’s a secret.” seriously. I don’t ever defend or speak against it— just not worth it. takes up so little of my time really — just a non-entity for me… for some, it means much more.

S

snuffing and freemasonry - both strong in the Golden Age also in my country Holland. Been to the masonic lodge once when the monumental building in my town was open to general visitors. Beautiful building but the contents and being of freemasonry don’t really attrackt me. I don’t know what I can do with it. A men’s social club? People that want to join societies where they are seen as important? I don’t know and I keep far away from it. I’m a communist.

G

A communist? That’s rich (pun intended) :))

C

A Bunch of dudes sneaking away from their wives or gfs to go hang out together in a " secret " club in the woods with robes. Lol sounds horrible

J

I would not fit in.

M

You’d be surprised, @juxtaposer. Your posts indicate otherwise. Fitting in is not the point.