I just started using snuff, and I love the stuff. I’ve been reading and doing my research on the health aspects, it seems that there was one study saying that “Dry” snuff was more dangerous then “Dip” “wet snuff” and It seems to me that the study is ludicrous. here is the site where I seen it. sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020625064640.htm Date: June 28, 2002 Source: University Of Alabama At Birmingham Summary: Use of powdered, dry snuff carries a much higher relative risk of oral-cavity cancer than does the use of other smokeless tobacco products – moist snuff and chewing tobacco – according to University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) researchers who compiled results from studies done over the past 16 years. if anyone can clarify on this study. let me know. I’m new here and I want to learn all I can about snuff and its effects Positive and negative on the body. let me know!

They’re talking about dipping American dry snuff. Taking nasal snuff does not have the same risks that dipping it does. You can snuff American dry snuff (scotches) as well and some of it is pretty damn good.

huh. did not see that. Like I said im new here and still learning. (as we all are) how do you think it effects the throat? anyone have any articles/studies on that? I also want to know if anyone has had any negative side effects since using snuff. what have you noticed good and bad. oh, and how often do you use Snuff a day? im at about 4 pinches a day. lol :)) keeping it low.

Well I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on T.V. but snuff in the throat will clear out either up or down in a hurry so likely won’t cause the same problems as keeping it in your lip for an extended period of time. The only negative effect I’ve gotten from snuff is the need to try all of them and having to practice some self control at the webshops. The good of it is that I feel like a million bucks using snuff compared to how I felt smoking (25 years). It’s hard to measure how much snuff I use a day but I’ll do four or more pinches at once. And I will do it several times a day as the mood strikes me. I also have a pipe or two, a snuff or two, and a bit of dip when travelling friends bring it up from the states.

Well I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on T.V. but snuff in the throat will clear out either up or down in a hurry so likely won’t cause the same problems as keeping it in your lip for an extended period of time. The only negative effect I’ve gotten from snuff is the need to try all of them and having to practice some self control at the webshops. The good of it is that I feel like a million bucks using snuff compared to how I felt smoking (25 years). It’s hard to measure how much snuff I use a day but I’ll do four or more pinches at once. And I will do it several times a day as the mood strikes me. I also have a pipe or two, a snuff or two, and a bit of dip when travelling friends bring it up from the states.

What do you see as the long term effects of using snuff? How dangerous do you believe it is?

Not your fault. ‘Snuff’ in the USA generally means moist snuff for the lip, and as such it is a little misleading. I believe that this arose from people using nasal snuff in their lips, and this then lead to the manufacturers calling their product ‘snuff’ even though it was no longer intended for snuffing. If this page is to be believed: http://www.tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/harmreduction.htm (and the arguments are very compelling) even oral tobacco is not very dangerous. Nasal snuff is generally believed to be even less dangerous than oral tobacco, and both are exponentially safer than smoking.

Nicely summed up @doctorbeat

I don’t use snuff yet ( waiting for my package ) but I do co lease a medical facility that my family used to run. Growing up in this environment and with doctors in the family forgive me I have to speak freely. No form of tobacco is safe, dip, cigs, snuff. However right now the lack of studies around snuff as well as the general consensus seems to point towards it being a better option. In America not many people use nasal snuff so it’s hard to say but I know of people in their early 20s who used oral dip for awhile and developed cancer of the mouth and lips. This isn’t a secret it’s very obvious around here. I’m assuming if nasal snuff was similar someone from Europe or internationally would be noticing it in a similar pattern to what is seen here with dip. genetic factors also play a role in different forms of cancer and plays a roll in which treatments will work best to destroy the cancer. If you’re fishing for an answer of ( it’s totally safe to snuff forever without consequences ) or ( I can guarantee you it’s the safest form of tobacco for YOU ) I can not. The reason being as I said before certain cancers as well as certain methods of treatment vary from person to person Is it safer then smoking? Once again people will say so here but since I was forced around doctors my whole life I have to disagree and say the answer is Inconclusive which means no one can possibly tell you yes it is safer for YOU. Use any form of tobacco with caution however you won’t develop emphysema like you would from cig smoking, and you won’t develop lip cancers in your 20s like some dippers… As far as cancer goes It doesn’t matter where it starts if it reaches your blood and spreads, but certain cancers in certain locations are easier to " cure " and yes I said cure cancer in 2014. With new trial drugs being released behind the scenes from private company’s every month. They will develop certain " cures " for us young folks in the future and near future, at a price. For example I recently had my grandmother admitted to a drug trial she had a carcinoma of the lung from cig smoking and because her body was compatible with the new drug treatment ( not everyone is ) and the cancer location all played a factor. Her lung cancer(s) were effectively shrunk down from the size of a golf ball to the size of a pee. This drug was specific to the individual and type of cancer and is not a wide spectrum cure. So for example in this situation it was actually good she had lung cancer instead of another type. However certain drugs are being studied with pancreatic cancer and skin cancers as well… So it’s a matter of time before new trial drugs will work for new cancers in different people. If you even made it this far in my response ( don’t blame ya if you didn’t ) you’ll see why it is far too complex to give you a straight answer with far too many factors at play. Most answers here will be biased because well… It’s a snuff forum! But even I choose snuff because I enjoy tobacco and I don’t want to subject my fiancée to second hand smoke. As a side note plenty of non smokers also develop cancers. Apologizes for being so long winded… Typing on a phone.

I don’t use snuff yet ( waiting for my package ) but I do co lease a medical facility that my family used to run. Growing up in this environment and with doctors in the family forgive me I have to speak freely. No form of tobacco is safe, dip, cigs, snuff. However right how the lack of studies around snuff as well as the general consensus seems to point towards it being a better option. In America not many people use nasal snuff so it’s hard to say but I know of people in their early 20s who used oral dip for awhile and developed cancer of the mouth and lips. This isn’t a secret it’s very obvious around here. I’m assuming if nasal snuff was similar someone from Europe or internationally would be noticing it in a similar pattern to what is seen here with dip. genetic factors also play a role in different forms of cancer and plays a roll in which treatments will work best to destroy the cancer. If you’re fishing for an answer of ( it’s totally safe to snuff forever without consequences ) or ( I can guarantee you it’s the safest form of tobacco for YOU ) I can not. The reason being as I said before certain cancers as well as certain methods of treatment vary from person to person Is it safer then smoking? Once again people will say so here but since I was forced around doctors my whole life I have to disagree and say the answer is Inconclusive which means no one can possibly tell you yes it is safer for YOU. Use any form of tobacco with caution however you won’t develop emphysema like you would from cig smoking, and you won’t develop lip cancers in your 20s like some dippers… As far as cancer goes It doesn’t matter where it starts if it reaches your blood and spreads, but certain cancers in certain locations are easier to " cure " and yes I said cure cancer in 2014. With new trial drugs being released behind the scenes from private company’s every month. They will develop certain " cures " for us young folks in the future and near future, at a price. For example I recently had my grandmother admitted to a drug trial she had a carcinoma of the lung from cig smoking and because her body was compatible with the new drug treatment ( not everyone is ) and the cancer location all played a factor. Her lung cancer(s) were effectively shrunk down from the size of a golf ball to the size of a pee. This drug was specific to the individual and type of cancer and is not a wide spectrum cure. So for example in this situation it was actually good she had lung cancer instead of another type. However certain drugs are being studied with pancreatic cancer and skin cancers as well… So it’s a matter of time before new trial drugs will work for new cancers in different people. If you even made it this far in my response ( don’t blame ya if you didn’t ) you’ll see why it is far too complex to give you a straight answer with far too many factors at play. Most answers here will be biased because well… It’s a snuff forum! But even I choose snuff because I enjoy tobacco and I don’t want to subject my fiancée to second hand smoke. As a side note plenty of non smokers also develop cancers. Apologizes for being so long winded… Typing on a phone.

Thank you for the insight! i`m not looking for a complete answer of “safe” or “unsafe” I know it can potentially cause problems. but I just want to know peoples experiences with using snuff. “Good” and “Bad” yeah, Anything in live involves risks. I just want the lesser of the two. If I have a choice. Thank you! Let me know what you got as far as snuff goes and how you enjoy it. So far im new and I love it!

Nicotine and tobacco alkaloids produce carcinogenic nitrosamines. Most nasal snuff is made from tobacco, and thus contain nicotine. Using nasal snuff increases your chances of developing maxillofacial cancers. That being said, nasal snuff is MUCH safer than smoking, and probably safer than using chew tobacco. Also, not all snuffs are equal. American and British snuffs are generally safer than certain snuffs made from say, India, where regulations on snuff production are not as rigid. If you are not addicted to nicotine, I wouldn’t advise you to begin using nasal snuff. However, as an alternative to other forms of tobacco use, nasal snuff is a much safer way to get your dose of nicotine.

When I gave up smoking, I put on about 15kg of weight over two years. Since I started using snuff, I’m back down to “normal” BMI and weigh about 65kg, thereby reducing my chances of suffering from heart attacks, stroke, and diabetes II. In my personal case, I have no doubt that snuff has had a positive impact. I’m prepared to take my chances of dying of cancer of the sinuses or whatever. At least it would create more interesting conversations at my funeral than if I died of the previously mentioned causes. But your personal circumstances and physiology may vary.

Can anyone point to an actual case where someone got cancer from using nasal snuff? Nasally too, not aurally!!

@Thunderbird I’m pretty certain that the answer to that is ‘no’. Nasal snuff use is not particularly widespread, and the cancers that occur in the areas of the body directly affected by nasal snuff - nasal passages, sinuses etc. are pretty rare. In statistical terms that means that it would be difficult to spot a correlation, and even if there was a correlation it would be even more difficult to be sure of a causal link. That said, the sum of the advice above seems to be pretty sound. We know that tobacco in various forms has harmful effects. We know that tobacco smoke has very harmful effects. We know that tobacco use is pleasurable. We know that at least one of the alkoloids in tobacco is highly addictive. So - if you don’t currently use tobacco, it is best not to start, because it’s not good for you and can be addictive. If you do currently use tobacco you would be well advised to switch to a method that doesn’t involve burning it. On balance of probability, the least harmful way to do this is to take it in the form of nasal snuff.

@Justin Thank you

… because it’s not good for you and can be addictive.

@Justin, I think you said it all quite well – except I’m not sure it’s not good for you. It puts me in a good mood, staves off boredom, keeps my weight down, and helps me perform my work tasks. I think tobacco can be good for you. Bit like coffee. It’s an excellent thing to give someone suffering from minor hypothermia or even fairly mild heroin overdoses (as a doctor who treated someone experiencing the same told me at a party I was at once. All about waking people up so they keep on breathing).

Next the scientists will tell us that we’re all dying somehow, someway, and that we will cease to be at some unforeseen point in time and that there is nothing we can do about it like hiring an attorney to fight for our very lives! I tell you one more medical review! One more!

… because it’s not good for you and can be addictive.

@Justin, I think you said it all quite well – except I’m not sure it’s not good for you. It puts me in a good mood, staves off boredom, keeps my weight down, and helps me perform my work tasks. I think tobacco can be good for you. Bit like coffee. It’s an excellent thing to give someone suffering from minor hypothermia or even fairly mild heroin overdoses (as a doctor who treated someone experiencing the same told me at a party I was at once. All about waking people up so they keep on breathing).

Saying that tobacco is good for you is absurd. Suggesting that tobacco is good for you, and then comparing it to coffee is intellectually dishonest. Scientific studies have conclusively documented the overwhelming negative effects that tobacco products have on the body. Alternatively, many current scientific studies have documented the various positive effects that coffee has on the body. If you are 400lbs and thus in a higher risk category for myocardial infarction, starting a highly addictive nicotine habit in order to bring your weight down is utterly ridiculous. If you are overweight, the best way to begin a return to health is by beginning a cardiovascular exercise regimen and by implementing a nutritionally sound diet plan. The proposal that those who are overweight can return to health by using nasal snuff or other tobacco products is something that belongs in an Albert Camus novel, as it certainly isn’t medically sound. I have access to numerous medical databases and can provide a plethora of links to defend the veracity of my aforementioned claims. I will do so upon request.

It’s been said in more than one place that moderate snuff use appears to offer the same degree of ‘risk’ as moderate caffeine use. @StPedro_de_Arbues I think you’re being a tad harsh here, @JakartaBoy said it keeps HIS weight down (which is entirely his own affair), he didn’t claim that “those who are overweight can return to health by using nasal snuff or other tobacco products.” Unless he claimed it elsewhere from your quote.

I’m not sure what vocational institute you attended, but my post on this thread wasn’t sarcastic. Ban me at your leisure. Saying I do not want to be banned is vain presumption.

Saying that tobacco is good for you is absurd. Suggesting that tobacco is good for you, and then comparing it to coffee is intellectually dishonest. Scientific studies have conclusively documented the overwhelming negative effects that tobacco products have on the body. Alternatively, many current scientific studies have documented the various positive effects that coffee has on the body. If you are 400lbs and thus in a higher risk category for myocardial infarction, starting a highly addictive nicotine habit in order to bring your weight down is utterly ridiculous. If you are overweight, the best way to begin a return to health is by beginning a cardiovascular exercise regimen and by implementing a nutritionally sound diet plan. The proposal that those who are overweight can return to health by using nasal snuff or other tobacco products is something that belongs in an Albert Camus novel, as it certainly isn’t medically sound.

@StPedro_de_Arbues, no, please don’t bother providing me with additional reading materials, I’m happy with the results of the research I’ve done myself. I’m quite doubtful that you’d be able to present anything that would alter my opinions. But thanks for the offer. Perhaps you misunderstood my position slightly. I’m a bit skeptical that snuff by itself would be able to transform an overweight individual by itself, and I’m aware of the value of physical exercise and a good diet. Personally, I swim, do yoga, and walk long distances across a large Asian city, while avoiding sugar and crappy processed food. But strong, black coffee and snuff are an integral part of my health program, as are cayenne-cacao potions. They are all good natural, herbal substances. I believe that different people have quite different physiologies, and that some things work well with some people, but not others. I’ve seen weed and alcohol do terrible things to some people, while others cope with one, the other, or both quite well. My sister is an extreme athlete, and eats plenty of sugar, which she says she needs, but which has a bad effect on me. I believe that each person can and should work out which things work for them. I maintain my position that snuff is positively good for me personally. A few people seem to be finding your manner offensive on this forum. Personally, it doesn’t worry me that much, I just think you’re probably used to forums where that kind of behaviour is tolerated or, indeed, expected. I don’t think the style you adopt fits in very well with this forum, so I expect you’ll either adapt, get bored and move on, or get banned. Frankly, I couldn’t care less which of those ways it goes, I’ll leave that between you and the moderators.

RIP Saint Airbus. We’ll miss having you around. NOT! =))

Gone, has he? Ah well.

@JakartaBoy‌ well old boy, we must wait and see. =)) I didn’t think he’d get the big picture. Lol

It’s funny, I have not found any compelling research showing that oral tobacco is particularly harmful. I have also read plenty about the harmful effects of caffeine. I myself do not get along with caffeine very well. I don’t enjoy tea or coffee, so I haven’t grown up consuming caffeine. When I do consume caffeine in soda, it makes me feel like hell. I was suffering from terrible headaches when I started my current job. I even went so far as to have my eyes tested, thinking that I may need to start wearing glasses. Turns out that it was because when I started this job, I had also started drinking Coke to wake myself up, because I was not used to getting up so early. I cut out the caffeine, suffered a week of even worse headaches, and now I’m back to normal. Caffeine is not the trivial drug that many people seem to think it is, and some people (like me) are affected worse than others. I expect nicotine is similar.

Some people just don’t get the nature of this forum. Personally I love snuffhouse because it’s friendly, requires you to have manners, and respect fellow snuffers. I wish more forums were like snuffhouse.

Can anyone point to an actual case where someone got cancer from using nasal snuff? Nasally too, not aurally!!

Well all it takes is for cells to divide faster and uncontrollably. Tobacco is a stimulant and Your nose sinus and throat are all susceptible to nicotine/tobacco juices. The thing is our life expectancy is increasing ( up to around 120 avg for babies born today ) Sometimes all certain diseases need is time to show themselves. Sometimes you smoke all your life then get cancer that has nothing to do with tobacco… Other times tobacco can accelerate the inevitable Or create a problem that never would have existed. All I’m trying to get at is were all adults and I choose not to be scared of something even if I don’t think it’s necessarily good for me and that doesn’t stop be from being excited about using it. I’ve smoked for 7 years lol. I loved every ounce of smoke. I would smoke after I die if possible. I just had to give it up for others. Not my own health. Absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of anything. For the sake of children that find their way to this site ( I went to tobacco forums all the time when I was in my teens and as a kid even the age gate wouldn’t stop me.) We don’t want to spread the wrong information. Truth is any cell in your body can divide uncontrollably. Even in your bone marrow. Tobacco or not Tobacco is a proven stimulant of certain cancers. You can prove this through a biopsy. Some granted ( from smoking ) are more common but there are also billions of smokers

It’s funny, I have not found any compelling research showing that oral tobacco is particularly harmful. I have also read plenty about the harmful effects of caffeine. I myself do not get along with caffeine very well. I don’t enjoy tea or coffee, so I haven’t grown up consuming caffeine. When I do consume caffeine in soda, it makes me feel like hell. I was suffering from terrible headaches when I started my current job. I even went so far as to have my eyes tested, thinking that I may need to start wearing glasses. Turns out that it was because when I started this job, I had also started drinking Coke to wake myself up, because I was not used to getting up so early. I cut out the caffeine, suffered a week of even worse headaches, and now I’m back to normal. Caffeine is not the trivial drug that many people seem to think it is, and some people (like me) are affected worse than others. I expect nicotine is similar.

Plenty of people get oral cancers from local oral dips where I’m from in their 20s. An easy mouth biopsy can prove this cancer is either from tobacco use or not. 90% of the time it is. This is the reason I’m choosing nasal snuff because having tobacco in constant contact with my mouth freaks me out after what I’ve seen ( also don’t care for spitting ) All I can say is Advances in medicine are making cancer less scary everyday. You could die from worrying before the cancer even has time to grow. Or you could get sick from something that has nothing to do with tobacco. I know users who used tobacco into their late 90s then died from old age. It’s all a crap shoot

Can anyone point to an actual case where someone got cancer from using nasal snuff? Nasally too, not aurally!!

The short answer is no. Oh, there’s an anecdote, probably apocryphical, about a farmer who put it in his ear and some women in southern Africa who used something vaguely similar to snuff, but no. Not even fairly loose association on any scale, let alone established cause.

Can anyone point to an actual case where someone got cancer from using nasal snuff? Nasally too, not aurally!!

The short answer is no. Oh, there’s an anecdote, probably apocryphical, about a farmer who put it in his ear and some women in southern Africa who used something vaguely similar to snuff, but no. Not even fairly loose association on any scale, let alone established cause.

There are 100s of million of " documented " cases by people across the world of alien abduction where they are examined, forced to raise alien babies, experimented on or mind linked with and worse I know it’s a little far fetched but my point is do I believe aliens would do those things? Nope… but thousand if not millions of testimonials go on each day. Some from very respectable people otherwise Even if a bunch of people swarmed this thread and swore to nose or throat cancers from snuff that wouldn’t help us anyway. They could smoke too or they could work as a mechanic or something else. There’s too many factors and not enough hardcore snuff users. The easy answer is tobacco inherently causes cancer and disease in humans. Your noses aren’t made of stone but in moderation I’m sure it’s just fine for adults

Eat healthy, Exercise, Die anyway , Just enjoy life as much as possible . <:-P If snuff makes you happy then go :(|)

I’m pretty sure that you can’t determine the cause of a tumor by performing a biopsy on it. You can only make guesses and assumptions based upon known risk factors.

“Life is a flat bitch. Then you get to die.” Grand-mère Richard

From what reading I’ve done it seems nasal cancer is very rare compared with other cancers. Hardwood dust can cause nasal cancer. I understand if you’re profession is cabinet making your chances of getting nasal cancer are significantly higher than in normal population. The same cannot be said of people who only use nasal snuff as opposed to nasal snuff and cigarettes. That came from the study Poschl commissioned as far as I remember.

I’m pretty sure that you can’t determine the cause of a tumor by performing a biopsy on it. You can only make guesses and assumptions based upon known risk factors.

Yes and no. There are primarily smokers cancers and non smokers cancers. But you’re right. not always… A smoker can get non smokers and vis versa but certain cancers prefer different things. Adenocarcinoma is primarily seen as a non smoking lung cancer Small cell cancer is primarily seen as a smokers cancer… So doctors use previous knowledge and common knowledge amongst each other to make it rather definitive. There’s no guessing involved. If you smoke cigs like a chimney and get skin cancer on your toe could be its not connected. Easy But if you wind up getting cancer on your lips and use oral tobacco often ( as seen around here )and it’s a specific type of cancer that is often seen on tobacco users that all together is fairly accurate. The location of the cancer is also important. Plenty of diagnosis from doctors would sound like a guess but they still save lives. It’s the farthest thing from a guess I know dippers who don’t get cancer, and I know of some that did young But to say it doesn’t happen at all is kind of dangerous. But that’s with " dip " as we call it.

Of course dip can give you cancer, but it’s not as prevalent as it is often made out to be. The majority of oral cancers are caused by smoking, so switching to oral smokeless tobacco actually reduces the chance that you’ll get oral cancer, even though it can also cause oral cancer. The data for oral cancer from smokeless tobacco use are skewed when they are not corrected for previous or concurrent smoking. Snuff (nasal) use appears to be far less risky than oral smokeless, perhaps because it is not held in contact with the mucus membrane for extended periods. Swedish snus carries a lower risk than American-style smokeless tobacco, which is believed to be a result of the lower TSNA content. This brings up interesting questions about the risks from nasal snuff. Some snuff is fermented (which increases TSNA’s) and some isn’t fermented at all, or to a far lesser degree. I have read enough of the (admittedly sparse) medical documentation to believe that nasal snuff carries hardly any risk of cancer. In the UK, warning labels on tins of snuff used to say ‘causes cancer’, but the government was forced to change it to ‘this tobacco product can damage your health and is addictive’. This is because there is no evidence that it causes cancer. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence, and there just aren’t enough studies to say for sure, but it’s convincing enough for me. Don’t forget that people have been using nasal snuff for literally hundreds of years. If there was more than a minute chance of it causing cancer, I think we’d probably know about it by now.

Of course dip can give you cancer, but it’s not as prevalent as it is often made out to be. The majority of oral cancers are caused by smoking, so switching to oral smokeless tobacco actually reduces the chance that you’ll get oral cancer, even though it can also cause oral cancer. The data for oral cancer from smokeless tobacco use are skewed when they are not corrected for previous or concurrent smoking. Snuff (nasal) use appears to be far less risky than oral smokeless, perhaps because it is not held in contact with the mucus membrane for extended periods. Swedish snus carries a lower risk than American-style smokeless tobacco, which is believed to be a result of the lower TSNA content. This brings up interesting questions about the risks from nasal snuff. Some snuff is fermented (which increases TSNA’s) and some isn’t fermented at all, or to a far lesser degree. I have read enough of the (admittedly sparse) medical documentation to believe that nasal snuff carries hardly any risk of cancer. In the UK, warning labels on tins of snuff used to say ‘causes cancer’, but the government was forced to change it to ‘this tobacco product can damage your health and is addictive’. This is because there is no evidence that it causes cancer. Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence, and there just aren’t enough studies to say for sure, but it’s convincing enough for me. Don’t forget that people have been using nasal snuff for literally hundreds of years. If there was more than a minute chance of it causing cancer, I think we’d probably know about it by now.

Nasal snuff could be safer yes than oral tobacco. The mucus membranes in our mouths mutate easier than the cells in our lungs they are protected by cilia I am assuming since our nose has a filter system maybe this is why cancer rates are lower in that location I’m not saying anything about snuff because I’m ignorant on the subject. I’m just saying a known blanket fact about tobacco ( plus I plan to shove plenty up my nose ) but also specifically American oral dip causes cancer in the lips tongue head and neck easily. I just want to make it clear I’m talking of American dip. this is fairly obvious and some heavy American dip users get part of their tongue removed or portion of lip etc. Swedish snus and nasal snuff aren’t used here as far as I know… And I can’t say anything about swedish, but similar to our lungs our nose has a type of filter used to irritants. Unlike the membranes in our mouth. There’s no debating American dip and the cancers show up quicker then with smokers. Also the fact that any cell can mutate and tobacco is a stimulant is a fact. I just believe the nose is tougher then the mouth and smoking takes my breath away anyway. The people around me also hate my smoking

Thank you everyone for all the insight! Its awesome to see a site all about snuff! Keep em coming! I’m learning all I can about this wonderful Tobacco product. Lol Thanks everyone.

Google Brad Rodu. He has links and comments about many studies showing American smokeless and it’s relative safety. According to his research American dip is as safe or as close to safe as Swedish snus. There are 1000’s of Swedish snus users in the us and EU, much harder to get in the EU but it’s possible.

Google Brad Rodu. He has links and comments about many studies showing American smokeless and it’s relative safety. According to his research American dip is as safe or as close to safe as Swedish snus. There are 1000’s of Swedish snus users in the us and EU, much harder to get in the EU but it’s possible.

I would be curious to see who funded that research and when. frankly no doctor or scientist in their right mind would recommend dip let alone American dip over smoking. Like I said I’m in the dark about Swedish snus… But if it’s as " safe " as American I wouldn’t call that safe. I would love for this " research " to be shown to the people who have lost their tongue in their 30s or lip In their 20s. I’m not basing my posts on anything else besides first hand. The nose is another debatable story which is why I’m trying snuff… American dip and the membranes in you mouth don’t get along and I grew up around this stuff all my life and American dip causes cancer in primarily younger people then seen in smokers. Smokers can develop problems young too, but oral cancers? American dip wins hands down with how progressive those cancers are. Kids even 18, 19 20 are seen with cancer of the mouth from American dip. Were all adults what’s with the denial? Plenty of people smoke or drink even though it’s not healthy and end up fine. But saying American dip is " safer " is not true Nasal snuff could be safer because of what I explained in my other posts in addition to how obvious the dip cancers are around here I’d think someone would be seeing it from snuff elsewhere, which they aren’t but with American dip It appears much sooner on average than smokers. In addition Please remember life expectancy is constantly rising and with it rise the chances of something going wrong. ( so nothing is safer if you die at 60 from cigs or dip but could have lived to 120 ) so it’s a moot point to debate the safety I’ve also never heard of 17- 20 year old getting oral cancer from cigs but I’ve seen it from dip Snuff is my safest bet, next is natural cigs with no additives( Indian reservation ) if I had to pick or choose. I want to apologize if I seem semi aggressive nature on this subject I just know what I’m saying is true. On the east coast of America this is what is happening

Personally I believe that any tobacco product that isn’t soaked in hundreds of toxic chemicals is safer than cigarettes

Personally I believe that any tobacco product that isn’t soaked in hundreds of toxic chemicals is safer than cigarettes

What about Indian reservation pure natural baccy? Then were splitting hairs in the long run. In 10 more generations we"ll probably be living to 200 years old. I think snuff ultimately has to be the " winner " dare I use that wording. One day cancer won’t be so scary either. I choose to believe some day soon. All this talk just makes me want to smoke even more, lol

Personally I believe that any tobacco product that isn’t soaked in hundreds of toxic chemicals is safer than cigarettes

Fermenting and fire-curing the tobacco makes it much more carcinogenic and some of our favorite snuffs do just that. I’m not convinced snuff is totally non-carcinogenic. If a burned steak is carcinogenic, tobacco probably is too. The advantage of snuff is that the quantity of plant matter consumed is so small. I’ll probably get flamed for this I just don’t care. If putting tobacco inbetween your lip and gums carries some risk of cancer, why would putting it in your nose magically eliminate that risk? Nasal Snuff is not steam pasteurized or anything like snus is - and thank god for that, it’d be a different product entirely and snuff as we know it would cease to exist. It’s safer, not safe.

You might as well smoke; the misleading and harmful public message about smokeless tobaccoThe negative health consequences of smoking cigarettes are well known. What is less well known is that not all tobacco products create similar levels of risk. In particular, use of Western smokeless tobacco (ST) is substantially less harmful than smoking cigarettes. This should not be surprising, given that ST use does not expose the body to the harmful combustion products and assault on the lungs that result from smoking. But even many health experts do not realize there is a major difference, perhaps because of repeated messages about “tobacco” (usually referring just to cigarettes), which imply that all products made from this plant have the same health implications. ST is usually only linked to one life-threatening disease, oral cancer (OC), and even that association may not apply to the types of products that increasingly dominate ST use in the West [1]. Claims of OC risk are largely based on a single study [2] and are contradicted by a substantial portion of the evidence about modern moist snuff [3-6]. Claims are sometimes also made about links to cardiovascular disease and pancreatic cancer, though the evidence supporting these claims is even thinner and more equivocal. The lack of clear evidence of a strong association with any diseases is not due to lack of research; there have been extensive attempts to find health risks from ST, including in Swedish populations where prevalence of use is high. While it is impossible to ever rule out small associations between an exposure and a disease, there is ample evidence to rule out, with a very high degree of confidence, the possibility that the combined risk of life threatening diseases due to ST use is anything close to that from smoking. Even if we were to believe the commonly cited estimates for the risk of OC from ST, that risk is still lower than the estimated risk due to smoking for OC alone (a very small fraction of the total risk from smoking). If we further allow for the possibility that ST creates small, yet-undetected risks for some other diseases, the risks from the many diseases caused by smoking still clearly dwarf possible risk from ST. The most frequently repeated estimate conservatively puts the risk of premature mortality from ST use at 2% of that from cigarettes [7,8]. The Royal College of Physicians recently stated that the risk from ST might be as low as 1/1000 that from cigarettes [9]. The Royal College and another recent high-profile report suggest an upper bound estimate of 1/10 the risk [10], but the available epidemiology suggests that the true value is extremely unlikely to be this large. Whatever the exact magnitude, the conclusion must be that cigarettes are considerably more harmful than ST. This research applies to ALL forms of smokeless tobacco. Other research shows that of all forms of smokeless, nasal snuff is the least dangerous.

@Cigshurtmylungs‌ may other members correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe I’d learned off a thread in archives, that the maker of Toque snuffs @Roderick‌, stated the TSNA’s of his snuff were either 2.3, or 2.6… 2-point-something is what I remember. I do not remember if it is the same thread or not, but cigarettes I remember are 500+, Skoal 60, and copenhagen 40. The studies done on swedish snus being between sub-1 and 2, as well. These studies were done in Sweden (and stored in my brain with a terrible capacity for specific details), so that it’s bias is your discretion, but I believe it’s more believable than it being related to the dangers of fire-cured or fermented tobacco, considering it’s a different, and very controlled, manufacturing process. Also, many plants, those from the nightshade family, have been found to have nicotine and of course small levels of the TSNA’s come with that. The concentration of tomatoes in ketchup leaves it with a higher TSNA of snus, and snuff (at least Toque?). I will look for the sources of this when I finish a few more pinches of lundy foot and watching a documentary on one of the tribe that collects hallucinogenic honey off cliff-sides. I’m in no way saying tobacco is completely safe, by the way. Nor saying this information is 100% accurate, just my 2 cents on the little I’ve read. I too do believe snus and snuff to be safer than cigarettes and dip, though. I also enjoy snuff enough to take my chances. I’ve quit many things, smoking being one, but this is childs play compared to what the other substances did to my mind and body. I actually find the effects of snuff to be more stimulating than cigarettes, and I’ve felt much better cutting smoke out of my tobacco diet. edit: the thread is http://snuffhouse.org/discussion/comment/16588#Comment\\_16588 Roderick’s first two comments is my very poorly memorized reference.

Anyone who recommends smokeless oral tobacco vs cig smoking especially cigs without additives needs to get out of their computer chairs and go do some rounds with your local doctors. It’s all bad Personally myself remember deep holes in people’s chest post surgery ( from cig smoking ) or chunks of tongues removed from dip use… Age range 18-20+ For dip and that sounds way too young for anyone to call it safe. The cig smokers were 50-60 years. If you put tobacco up your butt you’d increase your chances of cancers too. Saying certain forms of tobacco are safer is bologna. I can recommend snuff based off what I said before but oral dip is just as bad as smoking if not worse. I’m not a doctor or an advocate of tobacco… I’m unbiased. I’m telling you the truth. I’d smoke Indian reservation cigs with no additives far before dip. I don’t have to believe dip is just as bad as cigs. I know it. I’ve seen it. I didn’t use a google search Nasal snuff and vaping for me

Anyone who recommends smokeless oral tobacco vs cig smoking especially cigs without additives needs to get out of their computer chairs and go do some rounds with your local doctors. It’s all bad

@Cigshurtmylungs: As you said, you’re not a doctor. The report I quoted includes the conclusions of the Royal College of Physicians, which is a body that indeed represents the opinions of the British medical profession. I think I’ll tend to go with their conclusions rather than yours.

Anyone who recommends smokeless oral tobacco vs cig smoking especially cigs without additives needs to get out of their computer chairs and go do some rounds with your local doctors. It’s all bad

@Cigshurtmylungs: As you said, you’re not a doctor. The report I quoted includes the conclusions of the Royal College of Physicians, which is a body that indeed represents the opinions of the British medical profession. I think I’ll tend to go with their conclusions rather than yours.

As I said, I co own a medical facility that is being leased. I grew up with doctors in my family. I grew up in hospitals on the opposite end most people don’t get to see. I also got to see the darker side of the medical field. I don’t tend to trust things I don’t see with my own eyes. No offense to your royal college of physicians. But I’ve grown up with and did rounds with some internists, nurses, cardiothoracic surgeons, neurologists, respiratory therapists in fact so much so I hate hospitals and medicine… But I learned a lot. I promise you no donations were made to contribute to my research, as well as the opinion of the doctors I know. Do you think I’m sitting here lying to you? Smokeless tobacco causes cancer at a much younger age. Nasal snuff is not included and is debatable but anything is possible. It amazes me how humans have to qualify which is safer… Even the moderator admitted the first person to live to 200 could already be born. Does it really matter if cigs or dip give people cancer at 60 or even 90 if they could live another 100+ years? My problem isn’t the use of snus or dip… My problem is when people pass along crappy and dangerous information and quote a source they never witnessed with their own eyes. I have no reason to lie here… Heavy smoker for years myself. Even tried dip before. Love cigars too. I want to clarify for those who don’t read all my posts that the nose is used to filtering junk, your mouth is not. This is why I would recommend snuff for myself. Some people use tobacco and never get any sickness or cancers. Some people get cancer just having too much radiation under their home. Certain people are more susceptible to certain cancers and to certain methods of treatment. Read all my posts in this thread and you’ll see I’m an advocate for tobacco, just not for ignorance.

@Cigshurtmylungs, I’m not saying you’re LYING, just that you’re misinformed. As it happens, there are quite a few doctors in my family, too – my grandfather, and my former mother-in-law and brother-in-law were all lung specialists – a fact that I find totally irrelevant to this current discussion. Even the moderator admitted the first person to live to 200 could already be born. Hehe. Lunecat is a good moderator and has excellent taste in snuff, but I don’t think that means that he has inside knowledge about projected global life expectancies. I think at this point, it might just be better to agree to disagree on this.

@Cigshurtmylungs, I’m not saying you’re LYING, just that you’re misinformed. As it happens, there are quite a few doctors in my family, too – my grandfather, and my former mother-in-law and brother-in-law were all lung specialists – a fact that I find totally irrelevant to this current discussion. Even the moderator admitted the first person to live to 200 could already be born. Hehe. Lunecat is a good moderator and has excellent taste in snuff, but I don’t think that means that he has inside knowledge about projected global life expectancies. I think at this point, it might just be better to agree to disagree on this.

I need to add when a kid sucking on dip from age 10 - 18 shoves it in his upper lip then lip cancer pops up on that exact location in the mouth the fact you think that could be from anything else is comical and you can quote as many google searches as you’d like. It’s more common then you think and is the equivalent to 2+2=4 The fact I’ve witnessed things first hand is very relevant. I’m not just saying doctors in the family is all it takes but an initial interest or in my case forced interest to actually ask questions or do rounds with doctors Denial is fine for you but as I said before too, what about the non smokers that find this forum? Particularly young non smokers need to have the correct information. In addition even if 200 is a joke ( which would be extremely cool ) it’s a fact current life expectancy is indeed 120 and rising for babies born today Everything in moderation, nothing is " safer " but certain cancer prefer different people. If we can agree that no form of tobacco is safe at least spectators of the form particularly non tobacco users don’t feel biased towards one form of tobacco. Right now I’m with nasal snuff because my family has primarily lung cancer and for those around me. This is what I’ve seen with my own eyes

@Cigshurtmylungs, I think we have some fundamental philosophical differences about what constitutes good evidence. Let’s leave it there.

@Cigshurtmylungs, I think we have some fundamental philosophical differences about what constitutes good evidence. Let’s leave it there.

Lol

This has been a very interesting tread. I usually don’t read ones that are this long, but this one has held my attention.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK44699/ smoking http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/clearysnotebook/2010/09/httporalcancernewsorg-chewing-tobacco-is-very-dangerous-a-man-who-lost-part-of-his-face-to-cancer-says-smokeless.html American dip http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17826541/ nasal snuff http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22684175/ oral tobacco Lack of information can be dangerous, mainly for non tobacco users and young kids… Search " dip " or " chewing tobacco " on YouTube to see why lack of information is dangerous ( tons of kids are using it ) nasal snuff wins hands down out of the three at this current moment in time. My face and jaw are too beautiful even if it was only a 1% increase in risk from oral tobacco ( which it’s much much greater of a risk anyway ) As I said before I think were all old enough to face the truth Once again this isn’t just a google search or a gut feeling like the majority of users here, this is seen with my own eyes. There is nothing " safe " about oral tobacco Also remember this situation is if I HAD to pick one of three. Obviously using nothing is the " healthiest " option

Hehe. @Cigshurtmylungs, I don’t want to create the impression that I’m picking on you, but did you actually read the article on nasal snuff you linked to? _The association between nasal snuff and malignancy is not well established. There is epidemiological evidence suggesting that oral tobacco when mixed with lime and betel leaves causes oral cancer in the Indian subcontinent. Similarly, snuff s piced with dried aloe has been reported to cause upper jaw malignancies in the Bantu tribes. The last reported case of nasal snuff causing cancer of the nose was described by John Hill in 1761. We describe here a case of a 69-year-old woman who developed a nasal vestibular malignancy after 30 years of snuff usage, and this, we believe, is the only reported case of nasal snuff causing cancer in the last 2 centuries. _ If you saw the case in 1761 with your own eyes, you are indeed blessed with longevity. If you’ve seen the cases involving the Bantu tribes and on the Indian sub-continent, then you are merely well traveled.

Hehe. @Cigshurtmylungs, I don’t want to create the impression that I’m picking on you, but did you actually read the article on nasal snuff you linked to? _The association between nasal snuff and malignancy is not well established. There is epidemiological evidence suggesting that oral tobacco when mixed with lime and betel leaves causes oral cancer in the Indian subcontinent. Similarly, snuff s piced with dried aloe has been reported to cause upper jaw malignancies in the Bantu tribes. The last reported case of nasal snuff causing cancer of the nose was described by John Hill in 1761. We describe here a case of a 69-year-old woman who developed a nasal vestibular malignancy after 30 years of snuff usage, and this, we believe, is the only reported case of nasal snuff causing cancer in the last 2 centuries. _ If you saw the case in 1761 with your own eyes, you are indeed blessed with longevity. If you’ve seen the cases involving the Bantu tribes and on the Indian sub-continent, then you are merely well traveled.

You are aware that you’re arguing with me and agreeing with me at the same time right? I’m pro nasal snuff use… Are you even reading my responses? The reason I linked it was to show why I’m choosing to use nasal snuff However you and others seem to think oral dip is " safer " and that’s what I’m disputing

@Cigshurtmylungs, the article you linked to seems to me to be reasonably good evidence that snuff is pretty close to harmless. Or, to be strictly correct, that there is absolutely no evidence that it’s harmful. Added to the psychological benefits and the fact that you don’t suffer from nicotine withdrawal syndromes experienced by many people who give up cigarettes, which includes things like health-damaging weight gains, and I’m going to stick to my position that snuff is positively good for ME. And possibly many others who’ve been addicted to nicotine.

@Cigshurtmylungs, the article you linked to seems to me to be reasonably good evidence that snuff is pretty close to harmless. Or, to be strictly correct, that there is absolutely no evidence that it’s harmful.

Please try to understand… I am PRO nasal snuff use, CON with cigs and oral tobacco. We are on the same side on this one!

I’m pro nasal snuff use… Are you even reading my responses?

Definitely, probably the only person still doing so. I’m arguing with your previously stated position that tobacco, rather than tobacco smoke, is carcinogenic.

Me and you agree on nasal snuff, we disagree on oral dip… I provided you with your sacred " links " that prove everything apparently. Your response is what? Maybe Those doctors are mistaken too? What I’m trying to understand is are you saying this doesn’t happen? Because people get pancreatic gum jaw neck head or tongue cancers from oral dip that otherwise they wouldn’t have so how can it be labeled as safer when different cancers prefer different people as well as me those of treatment? Too many factors

So what exactly are you two discussing then? Seems to me that reading the two posts above ^^^^^ that two diferent ideas of what the debate is. Maybe it is time to just move onto something new??? Or at least firstly agree what the topic of the debate is exactly.

I’m sorry but it’s not a debate when kids tongues are getting chopped out from oral dip use In front of my eyes. Can’t we just lock this thread and stuff our noses? A health thread in a tobacco forum is like having a needle in the eye for everybody. Can’t we just live and let learn? I’m not mother Teresa

I’m not mother Teresa

Ah, something we have in common. I can also clearly state that I am not now, nor have I ever been, Mother Theresa.

I’m not mother Teresa

Ah, something we have in common. I can also clearly state that I am not now, nor have I ever been, Mother Theresa.

If snus makes you happy do it because there are plenty of dip users who are old and never have problems. But I’ve seen same with cigs. I personally knew a lady who lived until high 90s and smoked Virginia slims and died from old age. Some genetics just mix better with tobacco. Personally I’ll probably vape and use nasal snuff forever in moderation.

Stopped smoking a year ago for snuff and e-cig. Subsequently lost the taste for alcohol. Sold my motorbike and started cycling everywhere so started eating better to aid my fitness for cycling and lost a stone weight. So I was hoping for some feelgood kind of reward for all those changes and what did I get! Bloody Pneumonia! and in summer, well that’s what the doc says it is so I’m now on my second batch of antibiotics and thankfully it does seem to be clearing up but very slowly and could be yet more weeks before I am fully ok again providing it does not relapse. I can see how this can be a deadly illness as I was very close to needing some kind of breathing assistance but luckily the tide seemed to turn just before then but if I had been weaker then I think it would have been pretty serious. When you speak to people about it everyone has their theory about what is the cause and what you might do etc and several people have almost insisted to me that it’s snuff that is doing the damage. They claim that it is fine tobacco getting into the chest and sort of rotting there or something and leading to bacterial infection? These people have no professional medical knowledge whatsoever but what they say does stick at the back of the mind some. One suggests that I stop using snuff at least for a while to see if that makes any difference and they may have a valid point although I don’t see myself doing that as I seem to be recovering allbeit slowly while still using snuff. When I was at my illest point I barely used any and did not vape basically because I was so wrecked with the pneumonia. I’ve never heard a theory like what they suggest before and it hadn’t occured to me and I’ve never seen anything like this discussed here. To me I assume some snuff does get to the lungs but should easily be cleared as with normal airborn dust and pollen and pollution or whatever and I don’t always use fine snuffs anyhow and it is only these that I think reach my lungs more readily. It isn’t possible to enjoy snuff as much as before while I still have some of this pneumonia (which I have never had before in my 48 years) to clear but I hope soon that things will resolve and I will get my energy back. Will be great to get my lungs working well again nd they seem to be on the way to that. Who knows they could even end up better than before. I still think this is somehow connected to my stopping smoking after all those 30 years but no-one really knows why or how I got this except of course those who “know” it was snuff. I didn’t mention to the doctor that I took snuff as I did not think it relevant, after all I have been using it a couple of years without any problem. I think it was the flu I got that started it all. Maybe the snuff didn’t help things then but I don’t think it was the cause of any health problem but as I say no-one really knows. Actualy I find the people that suggest snuff is the problem kind of irritating but I can see what they are saying also. I’m sure you can all imagine that I don’t want to even take a break in my snuff use as like you all it is one my/our best pleasures.

Live fast. Die young. Look good in the box.

Well… Here is some of what I have learned about cancer in our lives… Please note that I am not an expert on any of this. I only report what I have read… Coffee contains 20 carcinogens. Processed meats such as sandwich meats and salami contain carcinogens. Emissions from cars and trucks are carcinogenic, as are charred meat and chicken on the grill, refined carbohydrates (e.g., donuts), and some artificial sweeteners. Alcohol also increases the risk of cancer. Other commodities that are cancerous include tinned fish, some pickles, pesticides (including those on unwashed fruits), some deodorants, some bars of soap, some toothpastes, some hair sprays, and yes, cigarettes–big time. And don’t forget excess exposure to the sun. Old age is cancerous as well. I have read that if you live long enough getting cancer is inevitable. However, having said all that, nicotine is NOT cancerous. Wow. However, burning tobacco releases many cancerous chemicals such as nitrosamines, but, as I understand it, the latter only when it is burned, or when it is heated to very high temperatures (as in some dips or chew?). It should also be mentioned that the sugars that are added to cigarettes produce formaldehyde when burned, and formaldehyde is a known carcinogen. What is the point of all this? Stay inside your house, stop breathing, stop drinking, stop eating, stop washing, stop living. That will keep you safe. If that is not an option, then go bravely and boldly into the world. Live life like you love it. But live wisely and recognize the value of moderation. But that’s just my opinion, and nothing more, for whatever it is worth. I cannot vouch for the truth of what I presented above. It is only from what I have read.

Well… Here is some of what I have learned about cancer in our lives… Please note that I am not an expert on any of this. I only report what I have read… Coffee contains 20 carcinogens. Processed meats such as sandwich meats and salami contain carcinogens. Emissions from cars and trucks are carcinogenic, as are charred meat and chicken on the grill, refined carbohydrates (e.g., donuts), and some artificial sweeteners. Alcohol also increases the risk of cancer. Other commodities that are cancerous include tinned fish, some pickles, pesticides (including those on unwashed fruits), some deodorants, some bars of soap, some toothpastes, some hair sprays, and yes, cigarettes–big time. And don’t forget excess exposure to the sun. Old age is cancerous as well. I have read that if you live long enough getting cancer is inevitable. However, having said all that, nicotine is NOT cancerous. Wow. However, burning tobacco releases many cancerous chemicals such as nitrosamines, but, as I understand it, the latter only when it is burned, or when it is heated to very high temperatures (as in some dips or chew?). It should also be mentioned that the sugars that are added to cigarettes produce formaldehyde when burned, and formaldehyde is a known carcinogen. What is the point of all this? Stay inside your house, stop breathing, stop drinking, stop eating, stop washing, stop living. That will keep you safe. If that is not an option, then go bravely and boldly into the world. Live life like you love it. But live wisely and recognize the value of moderation. But that’s just my opinion, and nothing more, for whatever it is worth. I cannot vouch for the truth of what I presented above. It is only from what I have read.

Nicotine extract doesn’t cause cancer, but smokless tobacco can. Just n two cents. But more importantly… Does anyone have an opinion on the gentleman who got phenomena from snuff use? I’m sure it will clear fine

Each year about 30,000 Americans learn they have mouth and throat cancers. Nearly 8,000 die of these diseases. http://m.kidshealth.org/teen/drug\\_alcohol/tobacco/smokeless.html (Note that this figure is not limited to oral cancers specifically caused by tobacco use) An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php Looks like it’s time to close down all those dangerous medial facilities…

Each year about 30,000 Americans learn they have mouth and throat cancers. Nearly 8,000 die of these diseases. Nemours KidsHealth - the Web's most visited site about children's health (Note that this figure is not limited to oral cancers specifically caused by tobacco use) An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company. In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA Looks like it’s time to close down all those dangerous medial facilities…

It is a progressively faster cancer at a younger age Historically the death rate associated with this cancer is particularly high not because it is hard to discover or diagnose, but due to the cancer being routinely discovered late in its development. - See more at: Oral Cancer Facts - Oral Cancer Foundation | Information and Resources about Oral Head and Neck Cancer The fact is it also includes pancreatic cancer larynx cancers and you aren’t including people who are simply disfigured but alive Did you know at any moment a solar flare could scorch this earth? Also did you know the risk of a car accident is 1 in 5000? Did you know that useless google searches mean nothing to me when ive see an 18 year old with part of his tongue gone from dip? The fact that more people smoke evens out the statistic as well. The thing is if you want to say nasal snuff is fine, it makes sense. But to call dip safer when cancer appears so young is ridiculous. People like you are why every kid are using dip I want to add that I do not think cigs are better then dip. I’m just also saying dip isn’t better then cigs

Stay inside your house, stop breathing, stop drinking, stop eating, stop washing, stop living. That will keep you safe.

That’s basically what I did including the stop breathing bit (well semi breathing). I quit smoking completely a year ago and I’m coughing away like a 60 a day smoker at the moment and I only ever smoked 10-20 a day.

Live life like you love it.

That would be nice. I think I saw that in a movie once.

Live fast. Die young. Look good in the box.

LOL. Not personally bothered about presentation once I croak it. I will obviously be having to good a time in Heaven with about 10 billion Happy Clapping Bible Bashers. No hang on maybe that wouldn’t be so great. Some-one else blamed my pneumonia on the E-Cig. Talk about people making you feel worse and guilty about your “bad” habits. Yet another advised to give up milk! Apparently that is the root of all evil, to some.

Did you know at any moment a solar flare could scorch this earth? …

Actually no it can’t. There will never be a solar flare anywhere near big enough to come anywhere near our planet what your thinking of is a CME (coronal mass ejection) and even that can’t scorch the earth, we got hit by a big CME in 1859 and we’re all still here. So long as our magnetic field is going strong a CME can’t hurt us but it can destroy modern civilization as we know it. Based on what happened in 1859 if a CME hit us now it would release so much electromagnetic energy in our atmosphere that every piece of electronics would get destroyed, power lines would burn to the ground, transformers would explode and planes and satellites will fall from the sky, it would be like the most massive EMP imaginable being set off across the entire planet. Even without a magnetic field protecting us a CME would knock our atmosphere off into space long before it scorched the Earth.

I understand nicotine has been considered being used to treat depression as it is known to relieve the symptoms. A good sniff of snuff certainly cheers me up

@Franknsnuff‌ I believe schizophrenia and other mental health circumstances as well. My understanding is that a larger number is seeing that nicotine is commonly used by those struggling and it is now being examined and studied in ways that it hasn’t quite been before due to its addictive nature. Nicotine has personally helped my own symptoms with my own struggles as well. My now passed grandmother lived with schizophrenia, and never smoked until looking for relief, but she’d always expressed the same after being introduced. It’s crazy to learn of the flower’s protein NaD1 and it’s results when introduced to a cancer… it seems there’s so many things out there that can be harmful but helpful. for example, ketamine and dextromethorphan for serious depression, as well as other psychedelics and hallucinogens. Personally, I’ll stick to snuff and coffee, but it’s interesting and encouraging nonetheless!

Each year about 30,000 Americans learn they have mouth and throat cancers. Nearly 8,000 die of these diseases. Nemours KidsHealth - the Web's most visited site about children's health (Note that this figure is not limited to oral cancers specifically caused by tobacco use) An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company. In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA Looks like it’s time to close down all those dangerous medial facilities…

It is a progressively faster cancer at a younger age Historically the death rate associated with this cancer is particularly high not because it is hard to discover or diagnose, but due to the cancer being routinely discovered late in its development. - See more at: http://oralcancerfoundation.org/facts/#sthash.wXiK2Bie.dpuf The fact is it also includes pancreatic cancer larynx cancers and you aren’t including people who are simply disfigured but alive Did you know at any moment a solar flare could scorch this earth? Also did you know the risk of a car accident is 1 in 5000? Did you know that useless google searches mean nothing to me when ive see an 18 year old with part of his tongue gone from dip? The fact that more people smoke evens out the statistic as well. The thing is if you want to say nasal snuff is fine, it makes sense. But to call dip safer when cancer appears so young is ridiculous. People like you are why every kid are using dip I want to add that I do not think cigs are better then dip. I’m just also saying dip isn’t better then cigs

I think you missed my point. I was merely pointing out that medical practitioners kill more people per annum (preventable medical malpractice) than oral tobacco does. As for oral tobacco killing people, 3,000 people a year really isn’t that many compared with how many people die from smoking related disease, which I believe is almost half a million. So yes, smoking kills far more people than oral tobacco, so oral tobacco is considerably safer, statistically speaking.

There seems to be two debates here. One about tobacco taken orally, and one taken nasally. The evidence for oral snuff causing cancer is apparent, the one for nasal snuff non existent. Could we split the discussions moderator?

That may be my fault. I was pointing out that even the notorious oral tobacco was nowhere near as dangerous as the propaganda would have you believe, and that nasal snuff was even less dangerous.

Sorry not to have commented sooner, I’ve been away for a few days. The current medical thinking is that snuff users outlive non-tobacco users by one day. This might not sound like much but that’s 8.4 years longer than smokers and one day more than non-tobacco users is quite significant in itself. The main benefits of snuff tobacco and for that matter all forms of tobacco are in the slowing of the onset of Dementia, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. However snuff has the advantage over lit or oral tobacco in that it extends live. Yes it’s only by one day but it still shows that not all tobacco is evil. What’s more studies are now finding that the tobacco flower has a cancer killing protein called NaD1. NaD1 causes Blebbing followed by Lysis when introduced to human cancer cells. In other words, they developed bulges and then burst in the presence of this protein. There is unlikely to be a more satisfying experiment than one that results in the explosion of tumour cells and a greater irony: tobacco grown to produce drugs used to treat cancers caused by tobacco.

Well the problem is we aren’t isolating the protine and even if that’s true there’s no way shape or form tobacco has anymore " anti-cancerous " properties then just injecting. The tumor with bleach Let’s pretend we aren’t all tobacco users, tobacco manufacturers or biased towards tobacco. Topic 1. ( is Dip safer then cigs) no. It’s the most ignorant fanboy statement I’ve ever heard. Please read all my posts in this thread Topic2. Are cigs safer then dip? No I never made that claim This is the important part********** EVERY CANCER PREFERS DIFFERENT PEOPLE, TREATMENT DIFFERS FROM PERSON TO PERSON In response to "doctor"beat With all this said, do you honestly believe someone could call dip safe in any context? You’re acting like it’s my jaw or my tongue, I’m trying to keep your faces pretty. Were all adults here, at least I hope. So this denial is really killing me. Can we not be selfish for one moment and think of the non tobacco users particularly the young ones. Saying oral tobacco is " safer " is dangerous when you have no clue of what you’re saying. If you made the statement that " it’s safer for YOU " I could respect that. But you don’t, you say it’s safer for everbody. Which is wrong. I’ll repeat, the cancer for oral tobacco shows up in MUCH younger people and since different cancers and treatments prefer different people it’s impossible to call it safer for the human race as a whole. Let’s say you have a green blue and red hat, a green blue and red shirt, green blue and red pants, green blue and red shoes and black and blue shades. See how many outfits you could make with that ( on paper ) and you would see an example just like with different cancers the factors are TOO MANY So that’s dip- people can say whatever lies they want. This is the truth I’ve seen with my own eyes. It different person to person On to NASAL SNUFF - will it add a year to your life? Probably not. Will it make your nose fall off? Probably not. Will it give you super human powers? Probably not. If you’re sloppy with your technique could some find its way to your lung? Maybe. Would this be problematic for a young healthy individual? Probably not. However unlike dip snuff is debatable. I’m sure in moderation and if you aren’t 90 snuff will be a beautiful choice for you. Is NaD1 anymore " anti cancerous " then isolating the area and injecting the tumor with bleach? Sadly not. Inherently everyone wants to think what they love, loves them back too. Normally this is not the case with tobacco. If everyone wants to snus away go for it, I’ll smoke a 4000 chemical stick with a smile, the difference you ask? None. Except I know " safer " and tobacco hardly mix and snuff right now is the only option No two people are alike

Did you know at any moment a solar flare could scorch this earth? …

Actually no it can’t. There will never be a solar flare anywhere near big enough to come anywhere near our planet what your thinking of is a CME (coronal mass ejection) and even that can’t scorch the earth, we got hit by a big CME in 1859 and we’re all still here. So long as our magnetic field is going strong a CME can’t hurt us but it can destroy modern civilization as we know it. Based on what happened in 1859 if a CME hit us now it would release so much electromagnetic energy in our atmosphere that every piece of electronics would get destroyed, power lines would burn to the ground, transformers would explode and planes and satellites will fall from the sky, it would be like the most massive EMP imaginable being set off across the entire planet. Even without a magnetic field protecting us a CME would knock our atmosphere off into space long before it scorched the Earth.

" scorched the earth " it’s called imagery. You’re telling me if you couldn’t order your special snuffs online that wouldn’t be the equivalent to the end of the world? LOL

@Cigshurtmylungs‌ several times in this thread there has been people stating that there are studies that show dip/smokeless oral tobacco is much safer than cigarettes. You refuse to even look into it because you know more than we do because you have seen a few personal examples of young people with oral cancer. That is called anecdotal proof and in the real world that is meaningless. You discount anything that goes against your beliefs as BS since, as you implied, they were funded by people you disagree with. Then instead of actually doing any research you continue to try and shout down anything that doesn’t support what you are so sure of. Try looking at both sides with an open mind rather than refusing to consider that you might be misinformed. BTW don’t bother with a long response to “refute” me. I won’t be reading it. I’m out

@Cigshurtmylungs‌ several times in this thread there has been people stating that there are studies that show dip/smokeless oral tobacco is much safer than cigarettes. You refuse to even look into it because you know more than we do because you have seen a few personal examples of young people with oral cancer. That is called anecdotal proof and in the real world that is meaningless. You discount anything that goes against your beliefs as BS since, as you implied, they were funded by people you disagree with. Then instead of actually doing any research you continue to try and shout down anything that doesn’t support what you are so sure of. Try looking at both sides with an open mind rather than refusing to consider that you might be misinformed. BTW don’t bother with a long response to “refute” me. I won’t be reading it. I’m out

I don’t care if you read it I care if others do. * that " research " of mine is called real life experiences. Not google searches The sooner you choose to understand that no single study can make such a claim the sooner you can stop making claims out the ass

@Cigshurtmylungs‌ I must preface this by saying that I am not actually a doctor, my username is a play on my surname. I am most certainly not a ‘fanboy’ of oral tobacco. I don’t chew tobacco, and actually find it to be a rather unpleasant habit (snus being the exception, as there is no spitting). I tried it once out of desperation when I had a job where I couldn’t smoke for eight hours at a time, and I spun out on nicotine. I have not tried it since, and do not intend to. I am a cigarette smoker. That being said, the statistics show that chewing tobacco is exponentially safer than smoking. This is not my opinion, it is a fact which was arrived at, not through anecdotal ‘evidence’, but using the scientific method. You are asking people to accept your poorly-spelled anectotes over hard scientific data, and it’s not going to happen.

I met three guys yesterday whose noses ALL fell off – right in front of me! And they all used snuff! Don’t tell me that that’s not conclusive proof that Martians plan to attack earth!! Say what you like with your silly Google searches!!

@doctorbeat‌ http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/539027-never-argue-with-stupid-people-they-will-drag-you-down I’m sure tomorrow we’ll all be friends again

@Cigshurtmylungs‌ Good point. I will heed Mark Twain’s advice and stop arguing with you.