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Sir Walter Scott back in stock

Any fellow recovering alkies?

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Comments

  • and people that do that kind of thing have to be charming to some extent, because they suck so bad no one would have anythingto do with them if they did not lie their asses off.
  • @bob Pot isn't a hard drug but it is one of the hardest for people to quit. I've known many people who could give up their booze, speed, pills, and heroin but not pot because like alcohol it is commonly used but the bad effects usually aren't obvious right away and people underestimate it's addictive and life-ruining potential. I think hard drug users associate pot with their adolescence when they first started drugs and figure it's not as bad as what they were doing. I've had friends that were so bad they were considered sober if they only smoked pot.
  • @Abraxas Great info sir. It sounds like the system put into place in the U.K. functions a bit better than here in the states.

    @bob I can see where you are coming from when you say these guys are lying their asses off. However, I am privy to one guy who is actually run over by a policy much like the one Abraxas describes.

    My neighbor is constantly getting the shit beat out of him by his wife. This guy has always got some kind of wound, contusion, or abrasion on him. I can hear here screaming at him, calling him every name in the book, telling him to GTFO. I am not the kind of guy that calls the police but one time, during a beat down, he tried to get into his car and she was beating on him with a decent sized book. He finally gets the car door closed and puts it into drive instead of reverse and crashed into his garage door. I called the police because I thought she had rendered the dude unconscious.

    I could not believe my eyes when I saw him being taken to jail. He was arrested on a Friday so that meant he had to spend all weekend in jail. He finally gets home and the guy is totally pissed at me. He told me that is the reason he doesn't call the police. I guess his wife is such a great manipulator that she can make the police think anything she wants them to and almost gets away with murder. Either way this guy had his ass handed to him and I learned a big lesson.

    Like you, I am asking myself why he doesn't leave? Then I reflect and I can honestly say I have been in his shoes so I really can't judge. He has worked his ass off to buy a house, support his wife, drive nice cars, and he clings to that vision of success he has in his mind. But damn, I will never forget the way I felt the day I saw him with his head hanging down, wearing a shiny new pair of handcuffs, on his way to jail. Man I know that feeling.

    Unfairness and collateral damage suck. Sometimes the treatment hurts worse than the disease. It's stories like this that make me shake my head. Why do we do it?: Why subject ourselves to such harshness? It took me along time to know when to say when so maybe if I can expedite that process for another person then maybe I have done some good. Then again, you're ready to change when it's your time to change.

    Damn this over thinking head of mine! LoL. I sometimes wish I could just be ok with life and not question everything.
  • @TomStrasbourg Give me pot anyday. Give me a pot head to deal with. True I believe pot is an addiction and the goal in life is to find that place where we can reach these highs without the assistance of drugs but if I had to choose a drug it would be pot.

    Pot is psychologically addictive. The physical withdrawls aren't there but inside you are crying like a baby because you need your blankey. I smoked pot the majority of my life and if I didn't quit naturally, meaning I just got tired of using pot, but I quit because I had to, oh man the withdraw would be a bitch. Again though, I would use pot over a psych medication in a heartbeat.

    I do agree with you though Tom, a drug is still a drug and our goal is to be free from these vices. Shoot where would snuffhouse be if it weren't for us junkies? lol I joke.
  • I was going through this thread a reading the posts again and wow I can see my addiction shining through. A normal rational person wouldn't cling to these thoughts. I believe most people operate with the understanding that things will be made "right" over time. Well heck, I guess this is theraputic for me. Thank you guys for letting me exercise these demons. I am most grateful.
  • @BigDaddySnuff I'am sure there are guys like that. And woman who would use a policy like that are pretty much the same thing in my opinon as a man that abuses woman. In fact the statistics are that woman abuse men more then the other way around. Mainily cause it's accepted because of the sexist notion that woman are nicer people and weaker too. Like your poor neighbor. The police tend to think it's the mans fault. I personaly hate abusive people. I knew a girl once who attacked a guy and when he punched her back she was all you don't ever hit woman and he was like I never have. Anything can be additive psychologicaly. I know we're not supposed to talk about it but when I've run out of pot I've never had trouble going to work and getting things done. I'am of the persuasion that a lot of people who over do it have problems that it helps somewhat to a great deal with. When I run out of coffee watch the fuck out. I think all these issues are lot more complicated then we have time to discuss. I remember reading from one doctor who was an addiction specialist that you have to look at the whole picture. He said in his opinion some people need their addictions and would be worse without them. I agree to some extent. Case by Case.
  • @bob Awesome post brother! A study I read conducted by the FBI showed that 99% of men convicted of domestic violence were never violent in past or future relationships. It was just THAT particular relationship that got them in trouble. Again I have my theories as to why.

    When you said, "don't ever hit a woman", that got to me. Men are conditioned to never hit a woman but it's ok to hit another man? See what I'm getting at?

    "Some people need their addictions and would be worse without them." Man I couldn't agree more. When we leave morality out of the equation and see situations on a personal level the whole paradigm changes. It seems we treat addiction as group thing when it is actually a personal thing. Doctors prescribe medication to eliminate suffering and addicts eliminate their suffering the same way. The problem is when it gets out of hand, as you mentioned, then life becomes unmanageable.

    Of course there are experimental treatments for addiction like, Ibogaine, LSD-25, MDMA, and others that are not excepted by medical communities because they are classified as "drugs". It's funny that one of the very founders of AA used LSD in conjunction with the program he helped start in order to get closer to god. People in AA don't like to hear that these days. The point is that a lot of the problems addicts face are of a personal, spiritual, deeply rooted disenchanted nature. Each person sees the world through a different set of filters.

  • @BigDaddySnuff from what I read he tried LSD once. But that vision he describes in his story was likely induced by a med they gave him that had psilocybin or some psychedelic in it. He also had a mistress. I wondered if Bill practiced these principles in that affair too.
  • lsd is powerfull stuff. it's on the other end from addictive drugs for sure.
  • BigDaddySnuffBigDaddySnuff Member
    edited October 2012 PM
    @TomStrasbourg I thought he used LSD somewhat regularly but I will have to open the book that I read it in to double check. Somehow I recall Carl Jung being involved. I think having a mistress in those days was a commonly accepted practice among men. It doesn't make it right but those were the times they lived in.

    Please don't think I am slamming AA I was just raising a point that all modes of therapy should be considered if a person wants to become whole again. The classification of a drug as not having any medical value only stigmatizes a substance that could actually change a person's life for the better.

    Psychedelics for me, even after I quit drinking, have been some of the most theraputic experiences that I could possibly have. In particular Ibogaine. I had to leave the country to use it under the care of an experienced professional but I can honestly say it has changed my life. Take into account this was only one treatment. Do I have some of the same tendencies as before? Of course, but I see things differently now. I saw people come to this retreat sick with heroin withdrawl, use Ibogaine and 12 hours later it was all gone. It was a freaking miracle. Nine months later these people are still sober. I think a more liberal approach to treatment possibilities would benefit all of society.
  • I think the chance of a psychedelic drug becoming addictive is very slim. The experiences are just too intense to handle on a regular basis.
  • @BigDaddySnuff Recovery is different strokes for different folks but personally I haven't tried using psychedelics to recover because I know I'd just become obsessed with them (I tried and really liked mushrooms and DMT) plus I've tried the whole smoking pot and nothing else but even when I managed that life still sucked and I couldn't maintain my spiritual program very long. I couldn't even do a secular humanist "don't be a dick" program for that matter. But the idea of an actual doctor taking those alternate approaches sounds alight and I have heard of psychedelics being used for that. I feel safer just meditating and praying and I've had some far out experiences drug free.
  • @bob I can see how some people would be better off just having their addiction. Tobacco and caffeine have become my socially/spiritually acceptable drugs of choice.
  • BigDaddySnuffBigDaddySnuff Member
    edited October 2012 PM
    @TomStrasbourg Absolutely my friend. I would not advocate anyone follow my course of treatment. It's a personal journey that i took because it fits my mentality. My point was to bring awareness to the fact that there are other ways. It was more of a thought that @bob had triggered in me.

    There are licensed medical doctors in the states that use LSD for treatment of cancer patients who have received a death notice as well to treat PTSD and addiction. They are underground but I have found them.

    I found this path through my interest in shamanism and reading about the plant medicine they employ called ayahuasca. After reading accounts of what the experiences were like and what the outcomes were I began to dig deeper. It is tough because you have to cross cultural boundaries and except a different world view which was hard for me at first.

    In the AA circle I am considered a bit blasphemous but in the rooms I keep my journey to myself and stick to the matter at hand. I don't speak of this in recovery groups unless it is brought up first. Nonetheless I still attend the occasional meeting because it keeps me grounded and helps me to remember where I came from.

    Another cool thing you might like, Tom, is Holotropic breath work. If you search Stanislav Grof you will see what I am talking about.
  • At this time of day, I'm a little too exhausted to add anything really profound to this conversation... I just wanted to say that all you guys are awesome, and don't let anyone tell you any different. Wishing y'all peace and happiness in your journeys :)>-
  • @Scurvy There you are brother! I was waiting for you to chime in since you are a C.O. and see the inner sanctum of darkness face to face everyday just like Abraxas used to. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated when you get a nap and feel up to it.
  • Ladies you are welcome to join as well.
  • I think the chance of a psychedelic drug becoming addictive is very slim. The experiences are just too intense to handle on a regular basis.
    not in my experience; I was a daily user (lsd) for several years, and glad for it. Of course I'm crazy as a loon, but also quite sane--it helps in this society.
  • @Mouse Daily? I have heard of people going for a week or a month but years would be intense. So you were in a constant state of bliss? You should write a book about it. I'd read it! That's a serious connection you had. Means you were close to chemist.
  • well, it was the '60s and I was working in a darkroom custom printing large portraits of debutants and publicity portraits of the Nixon family, ceos, and the supreme court while my friends were dying in Nam. Seemed the sanest thing to do. It was a full decade later that I nearly killed myself with alcholism. The spirit works in mysterious ways.
  • @Mouse Yes it does. One minute you're on top of the world and the next you're looking up at a pinhole of light from the bottom of a hole that you have dug for yourself. I'm thankful for the experience and wouldn't change it if I could.
  • It is called alcoholism not alcoholwasum. You put down the drink problem solved NOT.There is still the ism that would be I,SELF AND ME. This is the thing that must change. Live the green card. Sweep your side of the street.Get out of your head by giving it away.Turn it over,surrender to win,Do the step work then reap the promises pg83&84. they will always materialize if you work for them. I walk the walk 24/7, it says trudge the road of happy destiny. Any question? call your sponsor
    My knowledge is worthless if not shared and applied . "Joseph McKenna"  
  • @basement_shaman AAmen to that brother.
  • It's threads like this that make me especially glad I've joined up here.
    Before Europeans started farming ten thousand years ago, our ancestors were all hunter-gatherers. When the transition began from a low-carb hunter-gatherer diet to high-carb farmers' diets, the human digestive system had to change as well. The problem is that the Celtic peoples remained herders (cowboys), which is close to hunter/gatherer, until very recently whereas Germanic and Mediterranean peoples have been farming for many thousands of years.

    What this means for purposes of our discussion is that the ability to drink alcohol responsibly came with having the farmers' digestive system (farmers tended to consume huge quantities of beer and wine as food whereas herdsmen did not); those with the old Celtic herder digestive systems tend not to be able to handle alcohol as well. For example, since the American South is filled with Celts, the South had, and still has, relatively strict alcohol laws. This also explains why African Americans, and particularly Indians, suffer much higher rates of alcoholism than whites or east Asians. Whites and east Asians have been farming much longer, and have a much greater chance of having the farmer's digestive system, which tends to handle alcohol better. Of course, this theory doesn't explain other addictions.
    Thank you for explaining this @Dunnyveg. This answers some questions for me.
    A study I read conducted by the FBI showed that 99% of men convicted of domestic violence were never violent in past or future relationships. It was just THAT particular relationship that got them in trouble.
    @BigDaddySnuff Would you happen to still have a link to or copy of this study? I would love to read the specifics.
    My second marriage was similar to the story you described. It never got that bad, and the police were never involved, but my wife was abusive and sometimes violent. I never hit her, but I did have to force past her in a doorway or hallway to put some distance between us a few times, and I still have a scar on my arm from one night when she was doing her best to provoke me - to no avail. But man, could she push my buttons and get me angry. In fact, on topic, before this relationship alcohol only intensified good times - during this relationship, at some point I realized that alcohol intensified anger as well. Point is, it never happened with anyone else I've been with.

    I thought we big nasty patriarchal brutish men were the only ones that beat on people just because we can!

    BigDaddySnuff, your comments here are poignant, and mirror some of my own self-discovery journey in some ways. Would love to compare notes sometime, at the very least on shamanism.
  • @TSpike It's a great pleasure to have you join the forum and participate in this thread. WELCOME!

    I,for the life of me can't remember which biography I am pulling my info from and I can't find the book. A new book that was just was just released goes rather deeply into the matter:
    http://www.amazon.com/Distilled-Spirits-Forgotten-Philosopher-Hopeless/dp/0520272323/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351013452&sr=1-1&keywords=distilled+spirits

    Here is a short article regarding the subject and the book:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory

    Brother, I have also been in your shoes regarding an abusive relationship. Being pushed, shoved, yelled at to almost a breaking point. Perhaps not to the extent as my neighbor but still to a point that pushed limits.

    After all of these years of bad behavior I am finally sitting down to reflect and sift through all of these experiences, which has been a truly daunting task but has brought on an increased self awareness.

    @Tspike I have learned that sharing my experiences with other people has been a huge help, so please, if you would like to start a dialogue I am here to partake.

    Again, it's great to have you here and you are among friends.

  • Thank you sincerely for the warm welcome!!

    Agreed; sharing our stories is not only therapeutic in itself, but reading a story similar to your own helps a great deal. I'll PM ye.

    To the journey! ~O) (yes, that's a splash of Chartreuse in my coffee)
  • I've debated on whether or not I was going to post here for weeks now but decided to today. I can't say I'm a recovering alcoholic as I still go out once a week. I used to drink alot more 3 to 4 times a week. I never really had the feeling that I needed a drink or never got the shakes because I wasn't drinking. A couple friends of mine went thru that even vomiting blood. During my friends court ordered rehab he told me that if I drink to excess even once a month I'm considered an alcoholic. So I guess I still am. Anyway even tho I consider myself not having a problem with alcohol I did use other drugs like Meth and cocaine almost everyday for about 3 years. Its been a long time since I used now thanks to the birth of my son. He just turned 7 in August so its been a long time now.
  • @distaind

    Hey Brother,

    Just my 2 cents. I believe it all comes down to how your drinking or drug use affects you life. How do you feel after drinking? How does it affect those around you?
    Intoxicating substances have been used by humans since we began to walk upright and make a time and a place to get together to partake. It's a kind of bonding experience. Maybe you hanging out with your buddies and getting shit faced is just the "thing" your tribe does. It could be a completely harmless way of blowing off steam and dealing with life's issues or staying connected. Of course I'm not you so I don't know. People live their whole lives following this type is ceremonial gathering and it doesn't make them an addict. There is a certain type belonging that comes about when you sit in a living room, or bar, or wherever to alter your mental state with those who are closest to you. I believe it is a vital part of the human experience.

    You may want to keep an eye on your intentions due to the fact you have used drugs in what can be seen as an "abusive" manner in the past. Again, I'm not you so I don't know the circumstances regarding your drug use. It could have just been a phase of your life that got a little to comfortable and lasted longer than it should have. It still does not make you an addict. Obviously you came to your senses and changed your path. It is still good to check yourself from time to time.

    The fact that you have the ability to envision the future of your son shows that even if you think you may have a problem, you also have the ability to face it head on. When I was drinking I didn't care about anything but to do as much harm to myself as possible.

    One of the hardest things I had to do when I realized things had to change was dump my current lifestyle and that included my friends. Trust me, your wife is a great barometer when it comes to your vices. I am sure she will let you know if you step out of line. :D
  • @distaind It doesn't matter how much or how often you drink, I posted a few pages back. What make anyone an alcoholic is when you take that first drink it creates the phenomenon of craving. So one is too many and a hundred isn't enough. It an alergic reaction ,basically you invite spirits into your body and they take control.There is a turning point when you cross the line. Alcoholism is a three fold disease it effect you mentally, physically and spiritually.And it usually takes bankruptcy in one or more of these conditions before someone is willing and wanting recovery.
    My knowledge is worthless if not shared and applied . "Joseph McKenna"  
  • Well in that case I can't consider myself an alcoholic. I have the will of Kaiser sossay (or however you spell it) except shooting the wife and kids....well maybe the wife. No just a joke. lol. With my drug use I knew it was getting a bit outta control but I slowed down before my son was born and when he was it was just the kick in the face I needed. I never stole or did anything I was ashamed of besides the actual drug use. When I stopped I came clean with my family and the few good friends I had left. Its been years since Ive had a thought of using again. Although narcotics and alcohol are completely different the human aspect makes them quite similar so I thought I would Share my story here as well.
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