Any fellow recovering alkies?

@bob Awesome post brother! A study I read conducted by the FBI showed that 99% of men convicted of domestic violence were never violent in past or future relationships. It was just THAT particular relationship that got them in trouble. Again I have my theories as to why. When you said, “don’t ever hit a woman”, that got to me. Men are conditioned to never hit a woman but it’s ok to hit another man? See what I’m getting at? “Some people need their addictions and would be worse without them.” Man I couldn’t agree more. When we leave morality out of the equation and see situations on a personal level the whole paradigm changes. It seems we treat addiction as group thing when it is actually a personal thing. Doctors prescribe medication to eliminate suffering and addicts eliminate their suffering the same way. The problem is when it gets out of hand, as you mentioned, then life becomes unmanageable. Of course there are experimental treatments for addiction like, Ibogaine, LSD-25, MDMA, and others that are not excepted by medical communities because they are classified as “drugs”. It’s funny that one of the very founders of AA used LSD in conjunction with the program he helped start in order to get closer to god. People in AA don’t like to hear that these days. The point is that a lot of the problems addicts face are of a personal, spiritual, deeply rooted disenchanted nature. Each person sees the world through a different set of filters.

@BigDaddySnuff from what I read he tried LSD once. But that vision he describes in his story was likely induced by a med they gave him that had psilocybin or some psychedelic in it. He also had a mistress. I wondered if Bill practiced these principles in that affair too.

lsd is powerfull stuff. it’s on the other end from addictive drugs for sure.

@TomStrasbourg I thought he used LSD somewhat regularly but I will have to open the book that I read it in to double check. Somehow I recall Carl Jung being involved. I think having a mistress in those days was a commonly accepted practice among men. It doesn’t make it right but those were the times they lived in. Please don’t think I am slamming AA I was just raising a point that all modes of therapy should be considered if a person wants to become whole again. The classification of a drug as not having any medical value only stigmatizes a substance that could actually change a person’s life for the better. Psychedelics for me, even after I quit drinking, have been some of the most theraputic experiences that I could possibly have. In particular Ibogaine. I had to leave the country to use it under the care of an experienced professional but I can honestly say it has changed my life. Take into account this was only one treatment. Do I have some of the same tendencies as before? Of course, but I see things differently now. I saw people come to this retreat sick with heroin withdrawl, use Ibogaine and 12 hours later it was all gone. It was a freaking miracle. Nine months later these people are still sober. I think a more liberal approach to treatment possibilities would benefit all of society.

I think the chance of a psychedelic drug becoming addictive is very slim. The experiences are just too intense to handle on a regular basis.

@BigDaddySnuff Recovery is different strokes for different folks but personally I haven’t tried using psychedelics to recover because I know I’d just become obsessed with them (I tried and really liked mushrooms and DMT) plus I’ve tried the whole smoking pot and nothing else but even when I managed that life still sucked and I couldn’t maintain my spiritual program very long. I couldn’t even do a secular humanist “don’t be a dick” program for that matter. But the idea of an actual doctor taking those alternate approaches sounds alight and I have heard of psychedelics being used for that. I feel safer just meditating and praying and I’ve had some far out experiences drug free.

@bob I can see how some people would be better off just having their addiction. Tobacco and caffeine have become my socially/spiritually acceptable drugs of choice.

@TomStrasbourg Absolutely my friend. I would not advocate anyone follow my course of treatment. It’s a personal journey that i took because it fits my mentality. My point was to bring awareness to the fact that there are other ways. It was more of a thought that @bob had triggered in me. There are licensed medical doctors in the states that use LSD for treatment of cancer patients who have received a death notice as well to treat PTSD and addiction. They are underground but I have found them. I found this path through my interest in shamanism and reading about the plant medicine they employ called ayahuasca. After reading accounts of what the experiences were like and what the outcomes were I began to dig deeper. It is tough because you have to cross cultural boundaries and except a different world view which was hard for me at first. In the AA circle I am considered a bit blasphemous but in the rooms I keep my journey to myself and stick to the matter at hand. I don’t speak of this in recovery groups unless it is brought up first. Nonetheless I still attend the occasional meeting because it keeps me grounded and helps me to remember where I came from. Another cool thing you might like, Tom, is Holotropic breath work. If you search Stanislav Grof you will see what I am talking about.

At this time of day, I’m a little too exhausted to add anything really profound to this conversation… I just wanted to say that all you guys are awesome, and don’t let anyone tell you any different. Wishing y’all peace and happiness in your journeys :)>-

@Scurvy There you are brother! I was waiting for you to chime in since you are a C.O. and see the inner sanctum of darkness face to face everyday just like Abraxas used to. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated when you get a nap and feel up to it.

Ladies you are welcome to join as well.

I think the chance of a psychedelic drug becoming addictive is very slim. The experiences are just too intense to handle on a regular basis.

not in my experience; I was a daily user (lsd) for several years, and glad for it. Of course I’m crazy as a loon, but also quite sane–it helps in this society.

@Mouse Daily? I have heard of people going for a week or a month but years would be intense. So you were in a constant state of bliss? You should write a book about it. I’d read it! That’s a serious connection you had. Means you were close to chemist.

well, it was the '60s and I was working in a darkroom custom printing large portraits of debutants and publicity portraits of the Nixon family, ceos, and the supreme court while my friends were dying in Nam. Seemed the sanest thing to do. It was a full decade later that I nearly killed myself with alcholism. The spirit works in mysterious ways.

@Mouse Yes it does. One minute you’re on top of the world and the next you’re looking up at a pinhole of light from the bottom of a hole that you have dug for yourself. I’m thankful for the experience and wouldn’t change it if I could.

It is called alcoholism not alcoholwasum. You put down the drink problem solved NOT.There is still the ism that would be I,SELF AND ME. This is the thing that must change. Live the green card. Sweep your side of the street.Get out of your head by giving it away.Turn it over,surrender to win,Do the step work then reap the promises pg83&84. they will always materialize if you work for them. I walk the walk 24/7, it says trudge the road of happy destiny. Any question? call your sponsor

@basement_shaman AAmen to that brother.

It’s threads like this that make me especially glad I’ve joined up here.

Before Europeans started farming ten thousand years ago, our ancestors were all hunter-gatherers. When the transition began from a low-carb hunter-gatherer diet to high-carb farmers’ diets, the human digestive system had to change as well. The problem is that the Celtic peoples remained herders (cowboys), which is close to hunter/gatherer, until very recently whereas Germanic and Mediterranean peoples have been farming for many thousands of years. What this means for purposes of our discussion is that the ability to drink alcohol responsibly came with having the farmers’ digestive system (farmers tended to consume huge quantities of beer and wine as food whereas herdsmen did not); those with the old Celtic herder digestive systems tend not to be able to handle alcohol as well. For example, since the American South is filled with Celts, the South had, and still has, relatively strict alcohol laws. This also explains why African Americans, and particularly Indians, suffer much higher rates of alcoholism than whites or east Asians. Whites and east Asians have been farming much longer, and have a much greater chance of having the farmer’s digestive system, which tends to handle alcohol better. Of course, this theory doesn’t explain other addictions.

Thank you for explaining this @Dunnyveg. This answers some questions for me.

A study I read conducted by the FBI showed that 99% of men convicted of domestic violence were never violent in past or future relationships. It was just THAT particular relationship that got them in trouble.

@BigDaddySnuff Would you happen to still have a link to or copy of this study? I would love to read the specifics. My second marriage was similar to the story you described. It never got that bad, and the police were never involved, but my wife was abusive and sometimes violent. I never hit her, but I did have to force past her in a doorway or hallway to put some distance between us a few times, and I still have a scar on my arm from one night when she was doing her best to provoke me - to no avail. But man, could she push my buttons and get me angry. In fact, on topic, before this relationship alcohol only intensified good times - during this relationship, at some point I realized that alcohol intensified anger as well. Point is, it never happened with anyone else I’ve been with. I thought we big nasty patriarchal brutish men were the only ones that beat on people just because we can!

BigDaddySnuff, your comments here are poignant, and mirror some of my own self-discovery journey in some ways. Would love to compare notes sometime, at the very least on shamanism.

@TSpike It’s a great pleasure to have you join the forum and participate in this thread. WELCOME! I,for the life of me can’t remember which biography I am pulling my info from and I can’t find the book. A new book that was just was just released goes rather deeply into the matter: http://www.amazon.com/Distilled-Spirits-Forgotten-Philosopher-Hopeless/dp/0520272323/ref=sr\_1\_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351013452&sr=1-1&keywords=distilled+spirits Here is a short article regarding the subject and the book: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/aug/23/lsd-help-alcoholics-theory Brother, I have also been in your shoes regarding an abusive relationship. Being pushed, shoved, yelled at to almost a breaking point. Perhaps not to the extent as my neighbor but still to a point that pushed limits. After all of these years of bad behavior I am finally sitting down to reflect and sift through all of these experiences, which has been a truly daunting task but has brought on an increased self awareness. @Tspike I have learned that sharing my experiences with other people has been a huge help, so please, if you would like to start a dialogue I am here to partake. Again, it’s great to have you here and you are among friends.

Thank you sincerely for the warm welcome!! Agreed; sharing our stories is not only therapeutic in itself, but reading a story similar to your own helps a great deal. I’ll PM ye. To the journey! ~O) (yes, that’s a splash of Chartreuse in my coffee)