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PACT , the FDA and Poschl

gbrhysgbrhys Member
edited June 2010 in General
Recently mentioned on another forum that Poschl is pulling out of the U.S market, due to the headaches inherent in dealing with the FDA.

I have some past personal experience dealing with FDA, and I find the comment perfectly plausible.

Can anyone confirm or deny the situation regarding Poschl?

What little stocks of snuff I've found in the upper midwest and western Mountain U.S seem to consist of Apricot, President and maybe Packard club, plus WE Garret of course. (if there is anything in stock at all)

Seems to imply there might be more snuff sniffers than most of us suspect, all of whim will be dissapointed, IF this statement is factual.

Any one know the Truth?
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Comments

  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    Haven't heard anything about it. Doesn't sound true considering that Poschl is already FDA approved, and listed on Getsnus.com (The Northerners US Warehouse). Looks like some flavors have sold out but just a few days ago Poschls full US line was there.
  • This might be based on them sometimes withdrawing brands from certain markets, but if you look at their corporate video the seem to be committed to global supply in general.
  • edited June 2010 PM
    I just got off the phone with my friend over at Davidoff USA (they are the importers of all Poschl snuff for the USA) and I am VERY sad to report that Poschl is not registered with the FDA and will no longer be supplying the US snuff market. Davidoff just shipped their entire Poschl inventory back to Germany.

    This means, presumably, that snuffs that were made specifically for the US market, namely the Ozona fruits and Packards (not sure about Packards except it is not available in UK - it may be in the rest of Europe) will no longer be available, anywhere once current stocks are sold.

    Fortunately I stocked up before the 22nd (FDA cutoff for ingredient submission), which was pure luck, not foresight or I would have ordered more. For those of you who like Poschl products it may be prudent to stock up.

    Sorry to have to be the one to confirm bad news.

    Dave

    --small edit for clarification.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    The entire line is sold in Germany, not sure if that means much.

    Dave, do you know if you will be able to get them in the future?
  • Thank You for the confirmation Dave.

    Bad as the news is, President and Packards were my 'fall back' supply when traveling, could usually find one or the other someplace if I miscalculated and didn't pack enough

    Actually that FDA requirement on dry snuff (lumped in with snus because the buffoons in the district of Corruption don't know the difference) represents a back door expansion of FDA authority.

    Their charter limits them to food and critical medical devices, CT scanners, X-Ray, MRI etc.

    They've been trying to expand their authority for years, into non-food products, vitamins etc.

    One of the arguments (to be heard in court later, maybe, if anyone sues) is that dry nasal snuff falls into the same non-food category as herbal medicines and vitamins and therefore is outside of FDA jurisdiction.

    Problem is that no one has been harmed ... yet, so there is no standing for a lawsuit ... yet.

    I'll just depress myself and everyone else if I relate any of the FDA horror stories I have personal knowledge and/or experience with.

    Best to just leave leave the whole thing as the very bad news it is!

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.
  • Which snuff brands, if any, are FDA approved?
    I heard Toque was going through the process, any others?
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    I think Roderick is the only one now. Don't hold your breath for WoS or Samuel Gawith. SG can't even return a damn email.
  • @Cstokes: the full line is available in Germany because I shipped the US snuffs to Guenter. When they are sold out, then that's it. I suppose there is a slim possibility that Poschl in Germany might continue selling the US-only snuffs in Europe, but based on past performance (eg Packards - remember the thread on that about 2 years ago) it seems unlikely.

    @FireMarth: I heard that Samuel Gawith (ie the 4 brands PK imports) are registered, and of course Toque. To the best of my knowledge none have been approved yet. I have spoken with Ian McChrystal and he is in the process. Dave at Wilson's told me a while back he intends to register.

    Again I would suggest that if any of the Poschl snuffs are in your favorite list better get them soon. I would imagine in about a month they'll be collectors items. Of course I could, indeed I hope, I am wrong.

    Dave
  • Problem with submitting to FDA is that your ingredients even if not your process becomes public record, available to anyone.

    Rumor has it that snuff manufacturers are rather protective of their ingredients and processes.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    Sadly Dave, I think you may be on target. After all, if I had to choose either Bayern Prise or Packards Club.... it wouldn't be a hard decision. Poschl knows they can make money selling authentic German snuff inside of Germany, they don't need the US brands. I'm still surprised that they didn't register. They are mostly the only brand people see inside of tobacconist shops.
  • Again the question arises, can American citizens order non-FDA registered snuff?
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    edited June 2010 PM
    Sure, as long as they are not sold domestically.

    EDIT:

    The FDA has no control over what another country sells you over the internet.
  • Then why are the Swedish snus sellers not selling the non-FDA snus to the US?
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    Don't know, ask them.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    What I'm trying to figure out is why Get Snus' shipping rates quadrupled.
  • getsnus seems to be about $12 something now for shipping, and it's UPS.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    edited June 2010 PM
    Its always been UPS. I ordered from them before, I think I picked up 7 or 8 cans, shipping was $3 and change.
  • Yes, it was, though sometimes it was sent usps too, but either way, it was around $3.
  • @cstokes- I'm guessing it's the age verification system is the reason for the shipping costs.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    Chances are that Northerner came in and told them that they were not charging enough for shipping.
  • I hate to say it, but it looks like we may have to start charging for US post. We may need to send recorded delivery with a signature on receipt. I hope we slip under the radar, however if the post office tells us it’s got to be recorded, we’ll have to change.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    That's okay Roderick, at least I know you won't be extorting anyone.
  • Roderick, please keep us posted. I will want to get a gigantic order in before anything changes.
  • "May you live in interesting times", indeed.
  • So how is this age verification going to work through some sites?

    Please don't tell me you're gonna make it be 21-or-older, like some cigar sites out there...as I'm only 20.
    I don't understand why some sites do that, the legal age (at least here) is 18 after all...
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    It's not elaborate at all. And, IMHO, it's no excuse to quadruple the shipping cost.
  • CarolCarol Member
    I still like the "plain brown wrapper" idea. Label it as instant tea or something. The bulk Toques would be easy to label as instant tea, because they are in baggies, and it really does look like instant tea.
  • BartBart Member
    Excuse me while I calmly rap my tin and have a pinch as the hatchet falls....
  • XanderXander Member
    edited June 2010 PM
    Getsnus had age verification software since I've been shopping with them, that's almost 2 years now. So its nothing new.

    Also, I can't see Pöschl realistically pulling out of the US market. They already have the largest market share here. Something will work itself out. Something is not making much sense with all of this.
  • cstokes4cstokes4 Member, Moderator
    Well, the fact that Poschls US distributor sent their entire stock back to Germany is a grim sign. Perhaps sales were not what we thought they were.
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